Magic the Gathering Misconceptions

[Toshiro Umezete]

Originally Posted by EternalPhoenix13

I mean we never actually know what goes into making a yu-gi-oh set, but Magic actually has articles written about why Magic is great in design. I mean all of the different formats, its hard to see how someone could not like the game.

Magic is scary, we literally have thousands of cards, the entire pool of magic probaly exceeds any two maybe any three other TGCs.

The biggest complaint about magic is the mana system, somthing I see as necisary but alot of people say its too much of a luck based system. Creating land matter themes like zen should help though.

[EternalPhoenix13]

Originally Posted by Toshiro Umezete

Magic is scary, we literally have thousands of cards, the entire pool of magic probaly exceeds any two maybe any three other TGCs.

The biggest complaint about magic is the mana system, somthing I see as necisary but alot of people say its too much of a luck based system. Creating land matter themes like zen should help though.

There is really no reason to complain about the land system in terms of it being luck based (unless the person is horrible at the game) I mean I'm sure we've all had thsoe moments where we needed to draw something good but we draw something terrible, make no mistake though that happens in every other game as well. Other than those occasions, if you have good fixing in decks than the mana should not really pose any problems in doing so.

The way I could see the mana system being an annoyence is that it slows down games, but I feel like it doinjg that is one of the reasons magic is as good as it is.

A mana system allows there to be a cost/reward based system. A card with the same effect as Identity Crisis would be banned in some other games immediately, but in Magic it is perfectly legal because of its cost system. Basically the cost system allows for more diversity in set design than what any other game can have (using yu-gi-oh as my main example), which just makes card design in general better and easily more diversity and less complication in assigning big Timmy like effects onto cards.*

* most timmy cards in yu-gi-oh for example have such a high cost to prevent them from being broken, such as a giant minus, or multiple hard to play creatures that the costs on the cards render them completely unplayable, where as in Magic they are still usuable.

These are jsut my observations on the game. I'm not really bashing one game or another, as yu-gi-oh does have some pros over magic as well.

[Kinshin]

The main pro Yu-Gi-Oh has is it's alot faster to win and alot slower to win correctly. In Magic you atleast have to build up a force to attack with. In Yu-Gi-Oh now it's way too easy to get out big Timmy monsters compared to Magic.

[EternalPhoenix13]

I removed this post because I'm turning the thread into an X Game Vs. Magic thread, aka against rules.

[Kinshin]

Good thing you didn't. This thread almost got deleted once for going off track. Another misconception that annoys me is that some people think cards that inflict damage to a creature or player are best when inflicted on the player instead of the creature. (I thought that. I now understand that doing that to a creature helps more.)

[EternalPhoenix13]

Originally Posted by Kinshin

Good thing you didn't. This thread almost got deleted once for going off track. Another misconception that annoys me is that some people think cards that inflict damage to a creature or player are best when inflicted on the player instead of the creature. (I thought that. I now understand that doing that to a creature helps more.)

I had quite an interesting experiance where someone targetted me with Sign in Blood...I've never asked "Are you sure?" that many times in my life.

[Mortaltirant]

The quote really just seems like someone complaining wanting it "their way or no way." The slow openings with minimum mana is to keep things farer, so you can't just build a deck dropping 5+ mana's only in. Summoning sickness simpliy stops a game swarm (player 1 has nothing, player 2 has 2 tapped, player one has 10 mana, swarming 6 1/2 mana creatures all 1-3 power, no sickness=Strike for game).

I still kinda dislike the rotation though, new deck every so often becomes annoying, although a new one's usually built by the time anyway'z.

[Justmcnew]

Originally Posted by pat460

.....machamp? gengar?

Being someone that plays Pokemon, Gengar SF is pretty cheap in terms of utilizing a coin flip to KO defending Pokemon. Machamp SF yeah Taking Out a Pokemon in one hit is borderline cheap.

Originally Posted by Kinshin

Honestly magic is one of the most well done games i've seen. Yu-Gi-Oh is behind it and Pokemon behind that IMO. But once again i still have misconceptions about Pokemon TCG because i haven't played it.

I remember I was doubtful about the Pokemon TCG at first but then when I got into it a year or 2 ago I never looked back. If there's any game that's as close to being as addictive as Magic it's Pokemon.

Once you get the gist of the game, the mechanics, and gameplay it's really quite fun. One thing that's great about this game is that it's less expensive than Magic, though there are some cards that still cost an arm and a leg it's still pretty good.

Since I used to play Yu-Gi-Oh!, I know from experience that Pokemon is the better game. The meta is balanced, there's no card restrictions, no countless Banned and Restricted cards, no 1,000 page erratas, a resource system, you won't regret it.

There's all kinds of strategies that you can utilize and really that's a part of what makes the Pokemon TCG a fun game. The strategies in the game revolve around the Pokemon more often and alot of times you're best bet is to run Pokemon that have the best synergy with eachother in terms of card effects and sometimes attacks.

It's a bit of a mix between Johnny and Timmy, that's what Pokemon is.

[Mortaltirant]

Originally Posted by Justmcnew

Being someone that plays Pokemon, Gengar SF is pretty cheap in terms of utilizing a coin flip to KO defending Pokemon. Machamp SF yeah Taking Out a Pokemon in one hit is borderline cheap.



I remember I was doubtful about the Pokemon TCG at first but then when I got into it a year or 2 ago I never looked back. If there's any game that's as close to being as addictive as Magic it's Pokemon.

Once you get the gist of the game, the mechanics, and gameplay it's really quite fun. One thing that's great about this game is that it's less expensive than Magic, though there are some cards that still cost an arm and a leg it's still pretty good.

Since I used to play Yu-Gi-Oh!, I know from experience that Pokemon is the better game. The meta is balanced, there's no card restrictions, no countless Banned and Restricted cards, no 1,000 page erratas, a resource system, you won't regret it.

There's all kinds of strategies that you can utilize and really that's a part of what makes the Pokemon TCG a fun game. The strategies in the game revolve around the Pokemon more often and alot of times you're best bet is to run Pokemon that have the best synergy with eachother in terms of card effects and sometimes attacks.

It's a bit of a mix between Johnny and Timmy, that's what Pokemon is.

*Raises hand* I understand most of what your saying, it is fairly legit I suppose, although it could be argued. One thing I would kind of like to correct though. "One thing that's great about this game is that it's less expensive than Magic, though there are some cards that still cost an arm and a leg it's still pretty good." I haven't really went "hard core" with pokemon, I have with yugioh, and somewhat with Magic. Yugioh is un-godly expensive I without a doubt admit. But, with magic unless your playing legacy or vintage, it really isn't that expensive. Considereing both pokemon and magic have "rotation" format's. I took a tour of a few net sites, and it seems like pokemon is 2x as expensive as magic, typically unless your going for an Uber mtg card there less than $2, plus it can consist of many lands (basic being cheap).

I'm not saying I'm right, if not, let me know.
Sad part, there isn't competitive yugioh/poke/chaotic/naruto/dbz/blah blah for 50 miles of me...There is FNM/Warhammer/something else like 15 miles away though...Still...kinda stinks.

[jake9]

Originally Posted by EternalPhoenix13

Yu-gi-oh lacks good game design, which is one of the things that eventually made it less appealing. Magic also really caters to casual players (various casual formats, EDH, Planechase, Emporer, Star, chaos etc).

I mean we never actually know what goes into making a yu-gi-oh set, but Magic actually has articles written about why Magic is great in design. I mean all of the different formats, its hard to see how someone could not like the game.

As a player of both Yu-Gi-Oh and Magic, I have topped Yu-Gi-Oh regionals and have 4-0'd many Magic Online Standard tournys, I would have to say that I prefer Yu-Gi-Oh though I still play and enjoy Magic Online(I wish there were local tournys for Magic in my area.).

While both games have their flaws, my main problems with Yu-Gi-Oh can be fixed with tweaking a banlist while my problems with Magic are with its core game mechanics.

Magic: Basically the most important thing about Magic is your opening hand, get a bad draw in opening hand? Goodluck recovering while in Yu-Gi-Oh you can easily recover from bad draws unless your opponent draws godlike.

I wish there was a better mechanic than "mulligan" for Magic, maybe return 2 cards to deck for 1 basic land? SOMETHING to prevent people from conceding before the game even starts because they get no lands.

I also feel that Magic is way too linear, sure there are some games that get you thinking "Does he have a Lightning Bolt in his hand? Is he going to Harrow for his landfall cards? etc" but overall, to me, it feels like a very straight-forward experience where in Yu-Gi-Oh you really need to think hard about every play, especially in this format, as you can nearly lose in one turn for making one bad play/mis-reading your opponent(You will be literally sweating in your seat during a good Yu-gi-oh match in a tournament.). I like that in Yu-Gi-Oh, most of the time, you have opportunities to take major risks and have a lot of options(synchros are a good example of options you have when planning a strategy) where in Magic it all feels too straight-forward.

For those that play Yu-Gi-Oh: What do I think should be fixed?
Ban Dark Armed Dragon
Ban Trap-Dustshoot
Nerf Lightsworn decks(any deck that uses it)
Limit Black Whirlwind to 1, remove limit on Gale(drawing multiple Black Whirlwinds is just ridiculous)

My favorite TCG was VS. System, I feel they took the best out of Yu-Gi-Oh and Magic and mixed it together, I am so sad that UDE killed the game.

[enjoyonionrings]

Originally Posted by jake9

As a player of both Yu-Gi-Oh and Magic, I have topped Yu-Gi-Oh regionals and have 4-0'd many Magic Online Standard tournys, I would have to say that I prefer Yu-Gi-Oh though I still play and enjoy Magic Online(I wish there were local tournys for Magic in my area.).

While both games have their flaws, my main problems with Yu-Gi-Oh can be fixed with tweaking a banlist while my problems with Magic are with its core game mechanics.

Magic: Basically the most important thing about Magic is your opening hand, get a bad draw in opening hand? Goodluck recovering while in Yu-Gi-Oh you can easily recover from bad draws unless your opponent draws godlike.

I wish there was a better mechanic than "mulligan" for Magic, maybe return 2 cards to deck for 1 basic land? SOMETHING to prevent people from conceding before the game even starts because they get no lands.

I also feel that Magic is way too linear, sure there are some games that get you thinking "Does he have a Lightning Bolt in his hand? Is he going to Harrow for his landfall cards? etc" but overall, to me, it feels like a very straight-forward experience where in Yu-Gi-Oh you really need to think hard about every play, especially in this format, as you can nearly lose in one turn for making one bad play/mis-reading your opponent(You will be literally sweating in your seat during a good Yu-gi-oh match in a tournament.). I like that in Yu-Gi-Oh, most of the time, you have opportunities to take major risks and have a lot of options(synchros are a good example of options you have when planning a strategy) where in Magic it all feels too straight-forward.

For those that play Yu-Gi-Oh: What do I think should be fixed?
Ban Dark Armed Dragon
Ban Trap-Dustshoot
Nerf Lightsworn decks(any deck that uses it)
Limit Black Whirlwind to 1, remove limit on Gale(drawing multiple Black Whirlwinds is just ridiculous)

My favorite TCG was VS. System, I feel they took the best out of Yu-Gi-Oh and Magic and mixed it together, I am so sad that UDE killed the game.

I think it's good you're learning Magic through Magic Online. The shuffler on there is truly random, which makes your mulligan decisions very important online compared to paper. When you shuffle in real life, you're not truly "randomizing" your library. It is VERY frustrating to take multiple mulligans online, but it does happen.

What are you playing in Standard currently? Also, Standard is probably the most linear format at the moment due to the fact that we only have five sets which are currently legal. If you want to play a format with lots of decision making outside of Classic online, I suggest Extended which is really interesting at the moment. Extended season never fails to astound me. No single deck is ever the most dominant in the format, everything has its own silver bullet. It's like a game of rock-paper-scissors, with more than three objects. If you want to compare Yu-Gi-Oh! to Magic, look at Vintage or Legacy. They're very skill intensive and powerful.

[Justmcnew]

Originally Posted by Mortaltirant

*Raises hand* I understand most of what your saying, it is fairly legit I suppose, although it could be argued. One thing I would kind of like to correct though. "One thing that's great about this game is that it's less expensive than Magic, though there are some cards that still cost an arm and a leg it's still pretty good." I haven't really went "hard core" with pokemon, I have with yugioh, and somewhat with Magic. Yugioh is un-godly expensive I without a doubt admit. But, with magic unless your playing legacy or vintage, it really isn't that expensive. Considereing both pokemon and magic have "rotation" format's. I took a tour of a few net sites, and it seems like pokemon is 2x as expensive as magic, typically unless your going for an Uber mtg card there less than $2, plus it can consist of many lands (basic being cheap).

I'm not saying I'm right, if not, let me know.
Sad part, there isn't competitive yugioh/poke/chaotic/naruto/dbz/blah blah for 50 miles of me...There is FNM/Warhammer/something else like 15 miles away though...Still...kinda stinks.

As far as I know Pokemon is currently the 2nd strongest TCG in the secondary market behind only to Magic: The Gathering. Yu-Gi-Oh! is falling behind which doesn't surprise me at all considering how Konami and UDE screwed things up with it. Naruto I think is falling short to Yu-Gi-Oh! even though it's playerbase is still somewhat stable.

Part of the Pokemon TCG's flaws as like Magic is that set's do rotate out but in Pokemon you can always keep your old decks for Unlimited Casual If your League allows it or build new decks based on what your new or current card pool is.

Mortaltirant don't be afraid to go "hardcore" with Pokemon. It's like I said before it's gotten more strategic and more fun with the Diamond/Pearl sets, I used to hear people complain about the game's luck factor with coin flips but my advice is to not let that bother you and go for it. Even still it's a shame to hear about your problem not being able to play close by though.

Originally Posted by jake9

My favorite TCG was VS. System, I feel they took the best out of Yu-Gi-Oh and Magic and mixed it together, I am so sad that UDE killed the game.

I know what you mean, it was a great concept and I think UDE could've branched out more with other companies besides Marvel and DC but people we're a bit afraid of what the game would've been like mixing other franchise characters with that of American Comic Book Superheroes and Villains.

I guess in a sense it was a good thing Vs. died out cause otherwise the game probably would've had Disney characters considering they bought out Marvel themselves. Square Enix wouldn't of been involved cause they only share their license with Disney not Marvel and as you know Square Enix are the makers of the Kingdom Hearts games and of course the Final Fantasy series.

[jake9]

Originally Posted by enjoyonionrings

I think it's good you're learning Magic through Magic Online. The shuffler on there is truly random, which makes your mulligan decisions very important online compared to paper. When you shuffle in real life, you're not truly "randomizing" your library. It is VERY frustrating to take multiple mulligans online, but it does happen.

What are you playing in Standard currently? Also, Standard is probably the most linear format at the moment due to the fact that we only have five sets which are currently legal. If you want to play a format with lots of decision making outside of Classic online, I suggest Extended which is really interesting at the moment. Extended season never fails to astound me. No single deck is ever the most dominant in the format, everything has its own silver bullet. It's like a game of rock-paper-scissors, with more than three objects. If you want to compare Yu-Gi-Oh! to Magic, look at Vintage or Legacy. They're very skill intensive and powerful.

I either play Jund(cheap version, not using expensive lands, Broodmate Dragon, Maelstrom Pulse nor Garruk Wildspeaker) or Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle deck.

Both decks built with under $20 each as I have a limited budget but I have still 4-0'd a few online standard tournys with Valakut deck.

[Azorim]

Originally Posted by EternalPhoenix13

I had quite an interesting experiance where someone targetted me with Sign in Blood...I've never asked "Are you sure?" that many times in my life.

A guy did this to me at a tournament, but it was because I was at 2.