The Money Game: Gone too far

[StrikeCommander000]

Before I begin, I would like to remind you that this is NOT a rant about any specific card. This article is merely here to inform and as a discussion, and will hopefully give Konami a heads up before the ceiling comes crashing down on them.

As we know, this game started out pretty humble. You could get any card you wanted for probably no more than $40, and the best Decks didn't cost more than perhaps $100, give or take $20. This was a slight annoyance, but doable back then. This was, of course, before Chaos Decks.

Fast forward to Invasion of Chaos; the set was good, but two cards stood out: Chaos Emperor Dragon and Black Luster Soldier. Both carried price tags of $60-$80, and again this was irritating, but most could have them. they also caused a surge in similar Decks; the first of the true "cookie cutters", if I'm not mistaken.

the ban list came and brought the hammer down on these Decks, and a new wave of Decks began pouring in; more cookie cutters mostly featuring BLS. When the Black Luster Soldier was inevitably banned, the game grew quiet for a while, up until the GX packs.

The GX era brought the E-Heroes, D-Heroes, and the first money card we'd seen in a long while: Destiny Draw. Along with Destiny Hero-Malicious and Elemental Hero Stratos, they forged an engine that would cost someone such as myself an entire month's worth of livelihood. Of course, you wouldn't be caught dead at a tournament without running this engine, and a line was drawn: Those who could play, and those who could pay to play.

This line slowly became a rift, as Perfect Circle Monarchs, LaDD Decks, and others emerged, all powered and defined by Destiny Heroes. Gladiator Beasts were an inexpensive alternative, but still many players were left behind simply because of their thin/empty wallets, and many of the same faces, those with the proverbial "silver spoon", topped numerous tournaments. However, this was NOTHING compared to the atrocity that would come years later.

Konami really put a nail in the player base's coffin with the release of Phantom Darkness. This set defined at least two years' worth of formats, with cards such as Dark Armed Dragon, Allure of Darkness, and Dark Grepher forging a new power. These Decks, however, came at a cost almost the equivalent of one's soul: Secret Rare Dark Armed ran at 2-3 copies, Grephers at $20-$25 each, and the already expensive Destiny Heroes, caused the once thin line in the sand to become a massive gap between rich and poor. The advent of Synchros did not help the cause, as Decks became at least twice the cost they were before, what with Emergency Teleports alone costing $100 or more for a playset. That's not even counting the extra Deck itself; even with reprints of Stardust Dragon and Black Rose Dragon, you were still looking at roughly $60-$80 for the entire Extra Deck.

Lightsworn also caused problems, having many of their staple cards at Ultra or Secret rare status. Charge of the Light Brigade was the pinnacle of low, being Secret Rare and costing anywhere from $60-$100 each.

After those horrifying months, many of those players that thought it was safe to return to the game were proven dead wrong. Blackwings and Synchro Cat, headlined by the infamous Dark Strike Fighter, caused havoc during the summer months. Dark Strike Fighter was valued at over $80 for just a Super Rare; many a person that attended the same Regional I did had their DSFs stolen by a ring of thieves that were skulking about. Even after Blackwings were temporarily quelled, Rescue Cat remained to help push X-Sabers into the stratosphere of Tier 1. That brings us to present day, and the presence of two new staples: Pot of Duality, and Solemn Warning.

Once again, the rich have been greatly favored over the poor. Call it corny, call it cliched, call it torn straight from the pages of Robin Hood; the fact remains that Konami thinks little of the player base outside their wallets. I fully believe, however, that there can be a compromise with rarity upgrades, aside from the typical "Secret rare, reprint, repeat".

Even just an Ultra Rare Pot of Duality could have shaved a good $20-$40 off the price of the card. It still would have sold plenty of packs, and still would have given the so-called "higher class" something to scalp each other over. The same could be said for Solemn Warning: being Super rare, even perhaps short printing it slightly, could have made the card at least $10-$15 under the current secondary market price. There needs to be a compromise in rarity upgrades, and a reduction in Secret rare cards altogether.

As much as Konami tries to overlook it, expensive cards are degrading this game into a complete cesspool. It's gone from being a great game that ANYONE can play, to a cutthroat, backstabbing "survival of the fittest" mentality. Cardboard carries its weight in gold, and tournaments are breeding grounds for thieves and in-game corruption. It's even become many people's livelihood: Play to win, and spare no expense.

I propose that in order to stop this, we need to have a compromise in rarity upgrades. Don't rarity jack cards that EVERYONE can use to a ridiculous degree; if there's a need to, find a compromise between rarities. Instead of making that next big card Secret Rare, put a more collectible card in place of it, and maybe make the seller card Ultra, or even Super. Short print it slightly so that you still have to go through a few packs to find it, but not to the point where there's a major scarcity. Also, Secret rares shouldn't be the be-all, end all cards they have been lately. We need to go back to having two Secrets per set AT MOST. Not all of the OCG imports have to be Secret Rare, and core set cards most certainly should not be Secret Rare, either. Core set commons, also, should go no higher than Super Rare; what they did to Warning and Veiler was rubbing salt in the wound.

Lastly, a word to those who will surely flame me for hating overpriced cards: Imagine what would happen if this game stopped dead tomorrow. Your shiny cardboard would be completely worthless, and the "budget" players, as you call us, would be there laughing at you for making such a stupid "investment". This was never meant to be your livelihood, or your cash cow; there are things out there called "jobs" that you might want to look into.

Thank you.

Discuss.

[QKForever]

Angry rant because someone's poor or can't manage their money to keep up. Heh cry more.

[Valafar123]

Angry rant because someone's poor or can't manage their money to keep up. Heh cry more.

Obvious troll is obvious.

But I am a stealthy troll

[crystalight]

Valid points, i myself am struggling to even build the basic decks. then again thats what get for building 3 decks at once... As it stands i wont be buying any secret rare pods, or even solemn warning.

[slvrdrgn123]

Agreed. Good thing I left the game back in 2006 when none of this was much of a problem. I remember the chaos days when they were hard to get, but still easily possible if you put some effort into it. Now, it takes a lot of effort and a lot of cards/cash. I would like it if they brought back the 2 secrets a set. What's the point of making 8 secrets a set other than to make people buy more packs to pull the 1-2 secrets they really want.

[solat75]

Yes it costs money if you want to participate in the competitive scene for this activity, as it does with ANYTHING. With that being said, secret rarities should be reserved for collector cards, and for cards that are theme specific(such as XX-Saber Emmersblade). They also shouldn't be cards that make or break the deck, but instead enhance the deck consistency.

[topdecker0]

facepalm/lolpojo

[Archiecomics12]

I read this whole thing and i can honestly say i agree with you on all points i hate when i see a common in japan get reprinted as a dam n secret here i mean HONESTLY WHO THE HELL IS USING NATURIA PINEAPPLE- its garbage yet still it going for over $50 pot of duality a card anyone can use is bumped from a common or whatever it was in japan to damn secret rare going for 100-130 dollars you def won't see me spending that much on paper board my limit is 30 bucks and 30 bucks alone.......100-130 can by me more clothes, gas, a date with my girl, chill money with friends, money for the club,food, etc,and those are of higher priority then PAPER BOARD. Also i been saying this to my friends for some time now what happens when this game ends.....( honestly i see this game ending in the next 5 years and if not then so be it but where will i be will i still be playing yugioh maybe yes maybe not................Has anyone noticed that the most popular yugi-tubers don't even post videos like they use to and some have even gave there channels away, you know why its because slowly but surely this game is nearing its end and the big price tags have helped it get there on top of that people are growing up aside from keeping a small deck here and their to play when they have free time people are doing other stuff unless there just really a uber-nerd who has no friends and work a part time at their locaL FAST FOOD PLACE to fuel their card addiction

[StrikeCommander000]

I read this whole thing and i can honestly say i agree with you on all points i hate when i see a common in japan get reprinted as a dam n secret here i mean HONESTLY WHO THE HELL IS USING NATURIA PINEAPPLE- its garbage yet still it going for over $50 pot of duality a card anyone can use is bumped from a common or whatever it was in japan to damn secret rare going for 100-130 dollars you def won't see me spending that much on paper board my limit is 30 bucks and 30 bucks alone.......100-130 can by me more clothes, gas, a date with my girl, chill money with friends, money for the club,food, etc,and those are of higher priority then PAPER BOARD. Also i been saying this to my friends for some time now what happens when this game ends.....( honestly i see this game ending in the next 5 years and if not then so be it but where will i be will i still be playing yugioh maybe yes maybe not................Has anyone noticed that the most popular yugi-tubers don't even post videos like they use to and some have even gave there channels away, you know why its because slowly but surely this game is nearing its end and the big price tags have helped it get there on top of that people are growing up aside from keeping a small deck here and their to play when they have free time people are doing other stuff unless there just really a uber-nerd who has no friends and work a part time at their locaL FAST FOOD PLACE to fuel their card addiction

Glad someone gets it, however, your argument would be more acceptable if it wasn't one large run-on sentence ;)

Additional Comment:

Angry rant because someone's poor or can't manage their money to keep up. Heh cry more.

LOL... angry rant? You're the exact type of scum I decided to address in the last paragraph of my article. I'm going to laugh my ass off when this card game stops cold, and your ivory tower comes tumbling down.

BTW, when it inevitably comes to an end, good luck finding a job w/your limited studies in children's card games.

[Archiecomics12]

[quote=StrikeCommander000;20272712]Glad someone gets it, however, your argument would be more acceptable if it wasn't one large run-on sentence ;)

Sorry about that, usually when I get on pojo I lose sense of grammar in my rage. lol

[StrikeCommander000]

Yes it costs money if you want to participate in the competitive scene for this activity, as it does with ANYTHING. With that being said, secret rarities should be reserved for collector cards, and for cards that are theme specific(such as XX-Saber Emmersblade). They also shouldn't be cards that make or break the deck, but instead enhance the deck consistency.

Of course I would expect it to cost money, but not to a point where I'd be better off buying a luxury car, or a nice house, instead of spending the equivalent in expensive singles and packs/boxes.

I never did agree w/Emmersblade being a secret rare, but it was expected considering it was TCG exclusive. TCG exclusives are perfectly understandable, but when you make irrelevant OCG cards Secret, especially next to something like PoD, it makes buying packs very discouraging.

The scary trend of them making core set cards Secret Rare is what really bothers me, though. IMO, Secret rare slots should be reserved for OCG/TCG Exclusive cards, especially considering that they insist on havng this many Secret Rare cards. Could you imagine how much faster we'd catch up to OCG if they made ALL of the secret rare slots OCG Imports?

[BlackAtemKOG]

It sure sounded like trolling LMAO!
Also fyi capitalism is what keeps this game alive, consider this game a miniature stock market. Now imagine if I told u ur shiny pieces of cardboard that u spent $5 on had no derivative value but to go down. Would u still play? Prolly yea cuz u like spending money for liabilities. Buying a piece of cardboard for $20 and having the prospect of your Doom Cali's being able to push for $50 easy is what keeps the people spending their money. U look at it as a hobby as we all should but it is also just as much a lottery, a stock, or a collectible good that gains boost when it is in demand. EVERY demand card has been worth money, maybe u ain't sly muff to hustle em up. LoL
Or ur communist. :-P

[Archiecomics12]

It sure sounded like trolling LMAO!
Also fyi capitalism is what keeps this game alive, consider this game a miniature stock market. Now imagine if I told u ur shiny pieces of cardboard that u spent $5 on had no derivative value but to go down. Would u still play? Prolly yea cuz u like spending money for liabilities. Buying a piece of cardboard for $20 and having the prospect of your Doom Cali's being able to push for $50 easy is what keeps the people spending their money. U look at it as a hobby as we all should but it is also just as much a lottery, a stock, or a collectible good that gains boost when it is in demand. EVERY demand card has been worth money, maybe u ain't sly muff to hustle em up. LoL
Or ur communist. :-P

Don't get me wrong, I've made money off this game but at the same time i don't like this game turning into prices as high as cards in majic cause it never use to be like that and i don't want to see it that way. I understand cards jumping in price but at some point you should say hey thats ridiculous.

[BlackAtemKOG]

Also before I get ranted lemme clear something up, I'm not cutting on ya or blasting on ya as I can presume by text I come off as. I'm just saying your missing WHY this game IS STILL SUCCESSFULLY SOLD. And trust me many of the good vendors I know raking 50K + yearly, putting 20 hours weekly into Yugies have business degrees and other jobs or are my age IN SCHOOL!

There is a whole economic that occurs that allows this game to do well. I think from a business major myself and as a businessman, why am I going to produce a pack that has no money cards in it? The cases become hard to move to hobby shops and the demand lowers. Resultantly this is the delima with Starstrike Blast, no money rarities set. (Now if Formula Synchronize was a secret I'd not only be tight but It'd be a $40- $60 card)
They set the rarities in order to limit the production. The more money cards in a set the higher the demand. Konami has gotten smart. Theyraise the cost of a box to $100 instead of $65 and will sell DREV cases for 1K just cuz. What this does is lower the amount that hobby league shops will purchase, thus increasing the price and demand. Honestly in person I've picked up Dualities and seen them bein sold by ppl for $70-$80 @ regionals. Why? No body except for EBay folk spends money on cards anymore. TeleDad format yes and you Oughta expect those prices occur when STOR is released. But it's all Supply and demand; the invisible hand and capitalism. Honestly I would never spend money on a piece of card board regardless of if I likethe game or not unless I know there was an incentive or derivative. Value. If there was none, why not play the VGame? One solid cost and all the cards u could want. This argument is almost, ALMOST like saying why are there $100 baseball cards. Why? Collectible value, bonds. Yugioh has competition making it like stocks, a deck is the company, its performance is it's prospect and the better it does the higher it's value. And if something has been good and around for a while (LS cards) then it's value goes up over time. Business don't forget it. Konami is a business, UDE was a boss business (profit margin was sicker than Starbucks).
If your looking for low cost cards_ and good performance-- may I convert u to Fish LOL Mauso-Fish plays like TeleDad meets Stun and is relatively cheap :-D And once the deck nets more traction we going up on our stocks :-D

[QKForever]

Glad someone gets it, however, your argument would be more acceptable if it wasn't one large run-on sentence ;)

Additional Comment:



LOL... angry rant? You're the exact type of scum I decided to address in the last paragraph of my article. I'm going to laugh my ass off when this card game stops cold, and your ivory tower comes tumbling down.

BTW, when it inevitably comes to an end, good luck finding a job w/your limited studies in children's card games.

I go to ucla, my parents are rich, i found my own million dollar company without their help, i have a 3.9 gpa and im good at yugioh. what do u do? plz get on my level. only poor people and ******s have time to cry on forums in paragraphs/walls of text about things that dont matter like "aw damn this game is so expesive qq." nobody is making u play. if u dont like it, play something else. maybe if people like you don't spend their days writing on this forum and applied themselves you would get somewhere.

[Archiecomics12]

I go to ucla, my parents are rich, i found my own million dollar company without their help, i have a 3.9 gpa and im good at yugioh. what do u do? plz get on my level. only poor people and ******s have time to cry on forums in paragraphs/walls of text about things that dont matter like "aw damn this game is so expesive qq." nobody is making u play. if u dont like it, play something else. maybe if people like you don't spend their days writing on this forum and applied themselves you would get somewhere.

....... I wish I had everything given to me thanks for rubbing it in.

[BlackAtemKOG]

I go to ucla, my parents are rich, i found my own million dollar company without their help, i have a 3.9 gpa and im good at yugioh. what do u do? plz get on my level. only poor people and ******s have time to cry on forums in paragraphs/walls of text about things that dont matter like "aw damn this game is so expesive qq." nobody is making u play. if u dont like it, play something else. maybe if people like you don't spend their days writing on this forum and applied themselves you would get somewhere.

I like the attitude. Also what million dollar company are u frontin? Or is it ur parents, cuz a million dollar revenue is a bit odd for someone who apparently has multiple SJC/YCS tops, & Reggies, etc. Over here in Westchester I know quite a few adults w/Multi-Million dollar businesses and I must say their time is invested all in their businesses. LoL

Just saying I know biz my dude and the time-op doesn't add from your statement. No cut or anything. But I def agree with u with alot of the card whining seen online, LoL

[StrikeCommander000]

I go to ucla, my parents are rich, i found my own million dollar company without their help, i have a 3.9 gpa and im good at yugioh. what do u do? plz get on my level. only poor people and ******s have time to cry on forums in paragraphs/walls of text about things that dont matter like "aw damn this game is so expesive qq." nobody is making u play. if u dont like it, play something else. maybe if people like you don't spend their days writing on this forum and applied themselves you would get somewhere.

Considering the grammar, structure, and spelling mistakes in this sentence, I have a very hard time believing you go to UCLA, let alone own a million dollar company. Unless, of course, colleges in general have really sunk that low.

I imagine also that this so-called "million dollar company" involves a ring of highly organized Yugioh trade scalpers.

[Gorby]

The article was nice, and I agree with it, but Konami makes NO MONEY from the secondary sales of cards. All of the profit from those sales goes to the salesman and the salesman alone. Making those cards the raritys they are is only to drive the sale of packs, not to exclude a certain portion of the player base. The problem isn't with the rarity of the cards, it's with the card design. Making a card like Dark Armed Dragon, a card that is summoned for no cost and is potentially a +3 or more in and of itself, is flawed design; the card is simply too good. Making it a secret rare will only drive the sales of packs so people will clamor to get this broken card. All parts of the player base can buy packs. Some parts can afford cards in secondary sales. But it's that first part that Konami cares about. Blame the *******s who hoarde the valuable cards and drive up the prices for the secondary market problems.

[BlackAtemKOG]

Considering the grammar, structure, and spelling mistakes in this sentence, I have a very hard time believing you go to UCLA, let alone own a million dollar company. Unless, of course, colleges in general have really sunk that low.

I imagine also that this so-called "million dollar company" involves a ring of highly organized Yugioh trade scalpers.

If this was facebook, I'd like your comment :-D
Of course I had to break it down in another way to him. lol :-p

Additional Comment:

The article was nice, and I agree with it, but Konami makes NO MONEY from the secondary sales of cards. All of the profit from those sales goes to the salesman and the salesman alone. Making those cards the raritys they are is only to drive the sale of packs, not to exclude a certain portion of the player base. The problem isn't with the rarity of the cards, it's with the card design. Making a card like Dark Armed Dragon, a card that is summoned for no cost and is potentially a +3 or more in and of itself, is flawed design; the card is simply too good. Making it a secret rare will only drive the sales of packs so people will clamor to get this broken card. All parts of the player base can buy packs. Some parts can afford cards in secondary sales. But it's that first part that Konami cares about. Blame the *******s who hoarde the valuable cards and drive up the prices for the secondary market problems.

Like I said in my lil article on this page, its capitalism and its all stocks. Rarities and how hard it is to get a card only drives up the demand. People who sell cards have a standard for buying and selling cards. For example if you had a Duality and wanted to liquidate it into cash (U know stuff to spend on higher priority stuff than cards) what would you ask me to pay?

In other words how much would you sell me your rhetorical Pot of Duality for?

[StrikeCommander000]

The article was nice, and I agree with it, but Konami makes NO MONEY from the secondary sales of cards. All of the profit from those sales goes to the salesman and the salesman alone. Making those cards the raritys they are is only to drive the sale of packs, not to exclude a certain portion of the player base. The problem isn't with the rarity of the cards, it's with the card design. Making a card like Dark Armed Dragon, a card that is summoned for no cost and is potentially a +3 or more in and of itself, is flawed design; the card is simply too good. Making it a secret rare will only drive the sales of packs so people will clamor to get this broken card. All parts of the player base can buy packs. Some parts can afford cards in secondary sales. But it's that first part that Konami cares about. Blame the *******s who hoard the valuable cards and drive up the prices for the secondary market problems.

That's true; however, knowing that they make these "flawed cards" (certainly not including Pot of Duality), would it not be better for the player base as a whole to make it just an Ultra Rare? Even at 2-3 per Deck, it still would have driven the cost of the card down on the secondary market, and still would have sold a sufficent amount of packs.

Though they don't make money off of it, I'm almost tempted to believe that Konami makes these cards so rare as a sick and twisted joke.

[QKForever]

the business is mine and its invested money in hedge funds --->opening subway franchise. and the grammar is that way because i obviously dont want to put more effort than i do in posting on forums. if u can read it then the point is across. i really dont care if u believe me or not but it is what it is, and crying on forums about card rarities and money is sad. go do something useful. heh

[Chaos Corps]

It's a hobby, it costs money, deal with it. If you don't like paying for it, play something cheaper. Hobby's aren't a necessity, so you really have no right complaining about it when a majority of the community is ok with paying $600 for a deck, or just playing something they like for cheaper.

[QKForever]

It's a hobby, it costs money, deal with it. If you don't like paying for it, play something cheaper. Hobby's aren't a necessity, so you really have no right complaining about it when a majority of the community is ok with paying $600 for a deck, or just playing something they like for cheaper.

This guy has the idea.

[HighonPie]

Lastly, a word to those who will surely flame me for hating overpriced cards: Imagine what would happen if this game stopped dead tomorrow. Your shiny cardboard would be completely worthless, and the "budget" players, as you call us, would be there laughing at you for making such a stupid "investment". This was never meant to be your livelihood, or your cash cow; there are things out there called "jobs" that you might want to look into.

Thank you.

Discuss.

I'm a budget player. The rarites are fine.

[StrikeCommander000]

It's a hobby, it costs money, deal with it. If you don't like paying for it, play something cheaper. Hobby's aren't a necessity, so you really have no right complaining about it when a majority of the community is ok with paying $600 for a deck, or just playing something they like for cheaper.

That's just it: HOBBY. It's gone from being a simple hobby to most people's money-maker. It should not be this way. I can understand expensive hobbies to an extent, such as collecting old comic books. However, this is merely a fad. These cards won't be worth the paper they're printed on when it's all said and done, so why should they be so expensive in the first place?

[HighonPie]

That's just it: HOBBY. It's gone from being a simple hobby to most people's money-maker. It should not be this way. I can understand expensive hobbies to an extent, such as collecting old comic books. However, this is merely a fad. These cards won't be worth the paper they're printed on when it's all said and done, so why should they be so expensive in the first place?

Because Konami's trying to maximize profits. Because they're a business, and that's what businesses do. Why would they settle for making POD a super, have it flood the market, and have DREV's main selling point so abundant that many more people shop on the secondary market and many fewer buy packs? They just make it a secret rare, have more people buy packs to get it, and make more money. It's just smart economics. Konami doesn't care about you, and they shouldn't.

[TunaRolls]

Although Konami makes rarities, we decide on the prices.

[ZEXAL]

This is really becoming class warfare...

Rich people we're not you, we don't have all of mommy's and daddy's money to spend, we have work hard and earn our money, and we have to budget it to make sure we have enough for our lives outside of YuGiOh.

To people who are rich and haven't been given any help by there parents I am sorry if I offended you, but seriously, think, have you really never been helped by your parents wealth?

And what is all of this about rich people hating on those who whine about rarity? I mean god! seriously shut up! just because the less fortunate b1tch about money doesn't give you the right to b1tch about their whining. Get a grip I'm tired of hearing **** like "Poor people are such whiners". We are whining for a genuine reason, to get as much of a chance as people who were born with a silver spoon.

If anyone is going to pick on anything in this forum stop focusing on the wealthy or the poor and focus on KONAMI. Sadly the truth hurts; and they are just soulless corporate suits who print cards to suck every last drop they can from the people who buy them.

To all people who are either rich or poor wouldn't it be better if cards were cheaper? If all the budget players were to leave the game prices would shoot up even more until even the rich would have problems amassing the money needed to build a suitable deck.

[TunaRolls]

"I can change almost anything in the world, but I can't change human nature."

-Doctor Manhattan

Why good cards will be expensive, regardless of rarity.

[Japonman]

I'm far from rich, but I managed to hustle and get 3 POD, 1 I got rid of. So it's not a matter of being rich or poor, it's about building up trades and knwoing what you were dong.

I got a CCV for $120, sold it for $220 before it was banned. Only been playing for 1 yr at the time. if you know what you are doing, this is anyone's game.

I don't like the expensive excuse anymore. If a car dis over $30 ppl complain, not easy for me too, but I deal with it and manage to Multiply my collection to make maximum profit and increase volume. You learn a lot from economics

[godcardnoob]

the business is mine and its invested money in hedge funds --->opening subway franchise. and the grammar is that way because i obviously dont want to put more effort than i do in posting on forums. if u can read it then the point is across. i really dont care if u believe me or not but it is what it is, and crying on forums about card rarities and money is sad. go do something useful. heh

actually freedom of speech so people do have the right to complain, lol...

[Maou]

I have zero income. I have two Pot of Duality, and two Solemn Warning. With that I have a complete Extra Deck, a Blackwing + Side, and the cards to make 4-5 other deck-types restarting my collection from the ground up. I started playing in October again at the end of that month. I have spent $200 for ALL of that (and no, that doesn't mean everything is commonized).

Bargain. Pinch prices. Look good and hard for the right people. You people make this an expensive game for yourselves while in a few months time now I'll be making money off the game.

DAD format was the only format I have seen in all of Yu-Gi-Oh that was an expensive format. Everything else was an easily affordable joke.

[Alpha&Omega]

Why do people still insist on overlooking one KEY thing; Konami does NOT control the secondary market. It is controlled by the player base. If a card is game defining it will be in demand. The more in demand it is, the less of a Supply which ultimately leads to higher prices. The "secret rare" excuse can no longer be applied because as we saw, DSF was a super rare and it reached $80. It simply has nothing to do with what rarity a card is, it is always always decided by player demand. I mean ****, Royal Tribute is a $7 common. Thanks Konami for printing Royal Tribute as a common you money hungry corporation/sarcasm.

[Maou]

Although Konami makes rarities, we decide on the prices.

This quote alone pretty much ends the thread.

[Supremeking_Judai]

You clearly don't know your history. The first true "money" card was Mechanicalchaser just for the fact that it was the first 1850. Then came Gemini Elf, then Yata, then Ring, then the Chaos monsters. After that we have Cyber Stein and Cyber Dragon. Than the D-Hero Engine, Card Trooper Magical Stone Excavation and than Il Blud. Oh, and Gladiator Beast were NOT cheap. I don't know where were you, but Herks were $150-$200.

But back to my point, if you can't afford to play the game, find a cheaper hobby. It's a card game with expansions, it isn't going to be cheap.

[StrikeCommander000]

I'm far from rich, but I managed to hustle and get 3 POD, 1 I got rid of. So it's not a matter of being rich or poor, it's about building up trades and knwoing what you were dong.

I got a CCV for $120, sold it for $220 before it was banned. Only been playing for 1 yr at the time. if you know what you are doing, this is anyone's game.

I don't like the expensive excuse anymore. If a car dis over $30 ppl complain, not easy for me too, but I deal with it and manage to Multiply my collection to make maximum profit and increase volume. You learn a lot from economics

Hey, I've bought cards at as much as $50-$60 apiece. I don't see anything higher than that to be remotely logical, let alone reasonable.

Additional Comment:

Because Konami's trying to maximize profits. Because they're a business, and that's what businesses do. Why would they settle for making POD a super, have it flood the market, and have DREV's main selling point so abundant that many more people shop on the secondary market and many fewer buy packs? They just make it a secret rare, have more people buy packs to get it, and make more money. It's just smart economics. Konami doesn't care about you, and they shouldn't.

They certainly have no problem doing this in the OCG; what pitiful excuse could they have for not doing it here?

[ChairmanKaga]

As much as I sorta agree mostly just because I hate yugioh-hustlers at the same time rarity wouldn't have done much. It effects prices but its like comparing a golden toilet seat to a platinum toilet seat.

Should PoD have been a secret? Hell no.
Warning was actually a common....

That said look at the past and you'll realize there will always be money cards and the sets. Even if overall the set was full of utter low rarity trash people would price cards to resell to make money, thats just the nature of the yugioh-hustle.

Check back to DSF format. DSF was a super and at YCS's it was going for around $100. Yes, YCS prices are inflated but at the time sale prices of cards at events were capped at 100, selling a single for more than 100 would get you kicked out of the event.
PoD as a super likely wouldn't have been much different than DSF. DSF would still be insanely expensive today if it wasn't banned now it goes for afew dollars at best.


Yugioh as a card game is decently fun and a decent hobby, but way to many people are trying to be yugioh profiteers and hustlers. Those sorts of people really detract from how fun the hobby is.
I don't go play some sport/game and have people coming up to me going "how much you value your shoes at bro?" and then haggling with me all day about trying to buy my shoes so they can try to resell them for 2x/3x what they paid me.
I don't play some computer game only to have it be completely unbalanced by the fact that only afew hundred players bought the super special $100 dollar copy of the game that came with a death ray that shoots explosive rabbits and instagibs everything.

As a game and a hobby I want it accessible, I want people to play and enjoy the same things I do. Frankly only some people can do that, I'm lucky enough to be one of them but I'd love a cheaper game where they people that played it cared more about the game than the value of the cards you played with.

[ben7922]

I go to ucla, my parents are rich, i found my own million dollar company without their help, i have a 3.9 gpa and im good at yugioh. what do u do? plz get on my level. only poor people and ******s have time to cry on forums in paragraphs/walls of text about things that dont matter like "aw damn this game is so expesive qq." nobody is making u play. if u dont like it, play something else. maybe if people like you don't spend their days writing on this forum and applied themselves you would get somewhere.

Bluntly as possible, we like to have money for other things before we go for post-secondary or create a "successful" company. Players like you will NEVER get it, just like they'll NEVER spend that much on this game. Besides, a post like this is like me claiming I'm Jonah Hill and brag about being a successful actor. Just a post by some person on a forum, the way of the internet makes me not care whether or not its true.

The article was nice, and I agree with it, but Konami makes NO MONEY from the secondary sales of cards. All of the profit from those sales goes to the salesman and the salesman alone. Making those cards the raritys they are is only to drive the sale of packs, not to exclude a certain portion of the player base. The problem isn't with the rarity of the cards, it's with the card design. Making a card like Dark Armed Dragon, a card that is summoned for no cost and is potentially a +3 or more in and of itself, is flawed design; the card is simply too good. Making it a secret rare will only drive the sales of packs so people will clamor to get this broken card. All parts of the player base can buy packs. Some parts can afford cards in secondary sales. But it's that first part that Konami cares about. Blame the *******s who hoarde the valuable cards and drive up the prices for the secondary market problems.

Solid post and I strongly agree with the last sentence.

Although Konami makes rarities, we decide on the prices.

QFE

I'm far from rich, but I managed to hustle and get 3 POD, 1 I got rid of. So it's not a matter of being rich or poor, it's about building up trades and knwoing what you were dong.

I got a CCV for $120, sold it for $220 before it was banned. Only been playing for 1 yr at the time. if you know what you are doing, this is anyone's game.

I don't like the expensive excuse anymore. If a car dis over $30 ppl complain, not easy for me too, but I deal with it and manage to Multiply my collection to make maximum profit and increase volume. You learn a lot from economics

That happens at any level(local mostly), all it takes are a few players that aren't in to profit and simply don't care. Also connections and rep make a big difference in trades and base. Friend of mine has a great rep on many levels and has connections with the top players here. All he uses is a little gentle persuasion and he can build at deck at any price for guess what? 0$ Unfortunately the main pool of players in some areas rip the "don't know better"/"don't care" people before you can. It is because they have several eyes, books and persuasion to win everytime.

Nice post ChairmanKaga

Now for my part, I agree that this games singles are getting too pricey again at this time. Before those guys tell me to "Go quit whiner" "Get a job" "Blah-Blah-Blah" I DON'T CARE! Those players show me that they lack the foresight to keep a deeper player pool by simply making it less expensive and have more money for themselves. Or have to feel elitist to accommodate for something they lack by ripping on those not willing to spend much. Perhaps even faster the pool dries with a significantly drier player pool, which would lead to a much sooner end to this game.

I'm one of those don't care guys, but with the hoarders I tell them not to bother trading with me. Because we'll break even and won't trade obscenely rare cards for something everyone has in their books. I try to help the game flourish and keep it within their budget. Looking forward to the shenanigans I'll see next time.

[QKForever]

You guys are all ignorant. It all boils down to a game. If you can afford to play, then play and enjoy. If you can't, too bad. The world doesn't cater to you. Yacht racing is fun but its expensive, so should yachts be sold at 5 dollars a piece so everybody who wants to yacht race be given a chance? No. Maybe in an ideal or perfect world everything would be free and cheap for everyone but it isn't so quit crying. Nobody is making you play. Find something else to cry about if you cannot afford to play.

[ChairmanKaga]

You guys are all ignorant. It all boils down to a game. If you can afford to play, then play and enjoy. If you can't, too bad. The world doesn't cater to you. Yacht racing is fun but its expensive, so should yachts be sold at 5 dollars a piece so everybody who wants to yacht race be given a chance? No. Maybe in an ideal or perfect world everything would be free and cheap for everyone but it isn't so quit crying. Nobody is making you play. Find something else to cry about if you cannot afford to play.

Thats very nice of you to say little vendor person, you can keep vending your cards and praying your little cash cow exists. I'll keep hoping the game gets more open and accessible.

Or you can just troll here and look like a ****.

[Supremeking_Judai]

Thats very nice of you to say little vendor person, you can keep vending your cards and praying your little cash cow exists. I'll keep hoping the game gets more open and accessible.

Or you can just troll here and look like a ****.

LOLLOLOLOLOLOL broyoumadthatyoucan'taffordthisgame?

He's 100% right. Can't afford it, don't play.

[ChairmanKaga]

LOLLOLOLOLOLOL broyoumadthatyoucan'taffordthisgame?

He's 100% right. Can't afford it, don't play.

I can afford it and I do play, along with afew other games.

I just dislike people like him who see the game as a means to profit by screwing over others as opposed to a game to have fun with and play. Further I actually would like the game to get bigger have more players, and more importantly have more players with good decks that would be more fun to play with and against.

I have not yet begun to get mad bro.

[YugiohCardTader31]

U dont have to pay full price for the cards just buy packs and eventually u will pull them.

[Belgrond]

Well after reading most of the reasonable post(s), flaming posts not withstanding. This is my take on it.

To put it bluntly, its not quite as simple Konami controls pricing for the cards but rather both players and the company itself is intricately connected.

Since cards are priced according to its popularity, use and rarity, in most cases players themselves base its demand price. Current examples of this would be: Snowman Eater, Royal Tribute, Lonefire Blosson, Debris Dragon, Royal Decree, Miracle Fusion, ultimate rare Gravekeeper's Commandant, etc. Each of the mentioned cards was at a point in time, way undervalued than other cards at the time. Justified, considering demand for these cards was fairly low, if not non-existent. However, as formats change, so does the use and demand of each card changes. The secondary market for this card game is heavily reliant on high tier tournament results and the "flavour of the month". As more and more players demand certain cards ie: Pot of Duality, its price in turn goes higher. In retrospect though, cards also follow suit in the other direction. As other cards become highly valued, other cards become undervalued in the process.

Now, Konami does to a degree affect the values of cards as well. Constant and popular reprints drive prices downward. Cards such as Allure of Darkness, Honest, Mirror Force caused many of its higher rarity prints to devalue. Rarity upgrades also affect the market, however, if a card is in high demand its price still will skyrocket. Upgrades of rarity to cards like Solemn Warning and Pot of Duality did assist in selling DREV, but its more or less a gamble on what or which cards will be in high demand. Cards that intially have high value or over-estimated from its primary release(sneak peek) can sometimes be worthless in the long run, examples of which are Naturia Pineapple, Skull Meister, Psi-Blocker, Greed Grado. Whilst underestimated card or undervalued card can go the opposite direction, such as Dark Strike Fighter from its initial release in Sneak Peek.

[BlackAtemKOG]

Yes more support, I honestly think mods should just close these money discussions from the get go. Get over it cuz it's capitalism. If u like communism go to Korea to play.

Additional Comment:

You guys are all ignorant. It all boils down to a game. If you can afford to play, then play and enjoy. If you can't, too bad. The world doesn't cater to you. Yacht racing is fun but its expensive, so should yachts be sold at 5 dollars a piece so everybody who wants to yacht race be given a chance? No. Maybe in an ideal or perfect world everything would be free and cheap for everyone but it isn't so quit crying. Nobody is making you play. Find something else to cry about if you cannot afford to play.


I appreciate ur words man, idk why ppl can't get it. Regardless of who's responding and explaining they still don't get that it's a Supply and demand hobby that requires pay to play.
Peeps, ur payin unless u stealin ish. It don't matter if u buy a case load of packs, single cards from online vendors, or full decks off pplz at ur local u still payin. If u like whining so much on it steal a deck and win YCS or something (It has been done before, and I won't name but just know). Like deadazz consider the fact that if u don't like a $300 deck buy a $30 videogame and have fun.

Mods please lock this.

-FIN

[HighonPie]

This is really becoming class warfare...

Rich people we're not you, we don't have all of mommy's and daddy's money to spend, we have work hard and earn our money, and we have to budget it to make sure we have enough for our lives outside of YuGiOh.

To people who are rich and haven't been given any help by there parents I am sorry if I offended you, but seriously, think, have you really never been helped by your parents wealth?

And what is all of this about rich people hating on those who whine about rarity? I mean god! seriously shut up! just because the less fortunate b1tch about money doesn't give you the right to b1tch about their whining. Get a grip I'm tired of hearing **** like "Poor people are such whiners". We are whining for a genuine reason, to get as much of a chance as people who were born with a silver spoon.

If anyone is going to pick on anything in this forum stop focusing on the wealthy or the poor and focus on KONAMI. Sadly the truth hurts; and they are just soulless corporate suits who print cards to suck every last drop they can from the people who buy them.

To all people who are either rich or poor wouldn't it be better if cards were cheaper? If all the budget players were to leave the game prices would shoot up even more until even the rich would have problems amassing the money needed to build a suitable deck.
I agree with your second to last paragraph but not its connotation. You treat Konami like some evil company because it focuses only on profits. In reality, that's a good thing. In addition, you're being terribly presumptive. I can afford little in this game. TKRO is pushing it, and Pot of Duality/Solemn Warning are out of the question right now. Still, rarities are fine. I'm happy to see a business - Konami - doing well.

[BlackAtemKOG]

@Zexal- Um what about the people who aren't born rich but are natural born hustlers. LoL?
I got everything for my Saber deck by winning tourneys with my Machina deck last format. When TeleDad was around I won everything for LS and TeleDad decks and went pure profit off of collecting low selling high. Like some peeps are in the same predicament as u, they just business savy and bust ass with any deck. I mean I topped all my locals in GB format with Neos-Prisma-DW-Oversoul deck as well as going 5-3 at Neutral Ground. Really 6-2 but someone paid me $50 cuz they were embarrassed by loading to a random Neos 2500 beatsticks deck. I mean it's all about being good an also knowing when to invest and when u can juice.

Side note- lock this pleez mr. Mod.

[ZEXAL]

I agree with your second to last paragraph but not its connotation. You treat Konami like some evil company because it focuses only on profits. In reality, that's a good thing. In addition, you're being terribly presumptive. I can afford little in this game. TKRO is pushing it, and Pot of Duality/Solemn Warning are out of the question right now. Still, rarities are fine. I'm happy to see a business - Konami - doing well.


Okay okay, i can agree that konami is not some evil company, i suppose i was a bit angry at the time, after reading all the budget hate, and just wanted to get all the people focusing on Konami rather than eachother. But there is a fine line between maximizing profit and intentionally sucking players dry (if not making it harder to afford cards). I agree with your statement that only a few of the cards are radically expensive. But, when the cards that every (if not most) players should own are printed as secrets it just about crosses the line.

And to everyone who is saying konami does not control prices you are correct, but they do influence them. Talk about Solemn warning, it is a common in OCG, in TCG its a ******* Ultra/Ulti. There is price limit for different rarities. I have not seen a common ever exceed $10 unless there is something special about it. Because there are more of the less rare cards they will always cost less. It is for that reason we do not see anything like $100+ commons, i am hard pressed to find any card that has never been a secret or a ultra/ulti and cost more than 100 the only card that ever did that was DSF and that was because he was broken as **** and unlimited.

[Alpha&Omega]

@Zexal-But you have to understand the cost of making/distributing/advertising is pretty hefty. If all the top cards were commons, all someone would have to do is buy a couple packs and be done with it. There has to be an incentive to buy packs for the game to remain stable. There also has to be an incentive to win tournaments because Kazuki Takahashi himself said he didn't want cash to be given as a reward in this game. Would you really be content winning packs if all of the good cards were commons? I mean really what would gain from winning in the first place? If your argument is that this is a hobby, well then please by all means disregard the prices and just play it as a hobby. There is a fine line between just playing the game casually/for fun and playing competitively. The high end cards are in place for the competitive players, you by no means need anything to play the game for fun.

[La+Ghost]

Get over it cuz it's capitalism. If u like communism go to Korea to play.I won't be able to watch Hetalia from there. Both North and South Koreans hate Hetalia (The banned South Korea character is a pervert and an annoying 'servant' to Japan as reference on the Japanese conquering Korea during WWII) as much as the USA (The City of New York and Parsons School of Design will regret having the franchise's creator, Hidekaz Himaruya come around, study in Parsons and leave the country unscathed from your patriotic brothers and sisters and being able to make the America character a oblivious, ignorant doofus whose friends with the alien from the Roswell no offense.), Italy (The main character and his elder brother, North and South Italy, are naive wuss/cowards who can't fight at all) and any other country that has a personified character in the show (The France character forcing the Britain character's hand in marriage, a motive that could be perceived as a gay marriage, is reference to the French-English "merge" of 1956- a funny way of showing history, eh?). I'm not into communism either and I'd rather play Starcraft II in Little Tokyo.

Topic: As much as I can agree, players who want money out of this game will always think they are the kings of the world, thus with the cliche responses of "Pay to play". Sounds boring, but it's a bitter reality no one can escape from.

Money drives people. Money makes the world go round, may it be for the better or worse.

[Belgrond]

The main problem lies in the fact that game mirrors economics fairly well. As it is in real life, commodities, needs and luxuries are all victim to Supply and demand economics. However, what does interfere with common Supply and demand as with real life is speculators. This game does have its fair share of speculator/hoarders which can sometimes bend price ranges of cards. What most players tend to forget, is that every format has its critique of prices. Whether it was the price of Yata-Garasu, Raigeki, Exodia sets of the early days, to the exorbitant prices of Dark Armed, Judgment Dragon, Allure and Honest, to the current two valued cards Pot of Duality and Solemn Warning. As history shows itself, all previous valued cards lost its value through either reprints or simple disuse, and therefore overtime same will occur to both duality and warning. In which case a new "value" card would have emerged to replace it, and players will have a new "chase" or "want" card.

Sadly though =Zero=, these types of topics just degenerate into idiocy through trolls and flamers.

[Jaggededge11]

Before I begin, I would like to remind you that this is NOT a rant about any specific card. This article is merely here to inform and as a discussion, and will hopefully give Konami a heads up before the ceiling comes crashing down on them.

As we know, this game started out pretty humble. You could get any card you wanted for probably no more than $40, and the best Decks didn't cost more than perhaps $100, give or take $20. This was a slight annoyance, but doable back then. This was, of course, before Chaos Decks.

Being someone who's played the game for a very long time (Since the game first came out), I can tell you that the game has always been expensive (If you choose to run the top decks). For example, pre-IOC era you needed pricey staples in order to have a "Top" deck. These would include:


Sinister Serpent - $10-15
Tribe-Infecting Virus - $15
Confiscation - $5-10
Delinquent Duo - $10-15
Harpie's Feather Duster - $15-20
Premature Burial - $15-20
Raigeki - $10-20
Snatch Steal - $10-15
The Forceful Sentry - $10-15
Imperial Order - $20-30
Ring of Destruction - $15-20 (Again, this is post IOC)
Call Of The Haunted - $15
Mirror Force - $30-40


Even on the lowest prices, you're looking to spend roughly $180 (That's being generous). And this was for staples alone.

Lets not forget that other awesome cards also cost a few dollars:


Yatta-Garasu - $30-40
Fiber Jar - $20
Magic Cylender - $25
United We Stand - $15-20
Mage Power - $15-20
Ceasefire - $15-20
Breaker the Magical Warrior - $15
Goblin Attack Force - $10-15
Marauding Captain - $10-15
Gemini Elf - $20-25
Injection Fairy Lily - $20-25
Don Zaloog - $10-15
Jinzo - $25-30


The only decks that were "cheap", were those that focused on OTK/FTK (Namely Scientist and Last Turn). However, even then most of these decks found themselves needed some staples in order to make them run.



Fast forward to Invasion of Chaos; the set was good, but two cards stood out: Chaos Emperor Dragon and Black Luster Soldier. Both carried price tags of $60-$80, and again this was irritating, but most could have them. they also caused a surge in similar Decks; the first of the true "cookie cutters", if I'm not mistaken.

In the earlier sets, there was little in terms of "diversity" (And what ever forms there were, often had little or terrible support) so most people just ran beatdown (Whether it was generic or theme specific). The reasons why most people decided to "Copy" chaos was because:


1. It was one of the first themes that had tons of support already available (Where it be in the current set or sets prior).

2. It was extremely powerful, and as such won the majority of games. And people tend to want to win if they're investing a bunch of money to run the "Top" decks.


The ban list came and brought the hammer down on these Decks, and a new wave of Decks began pouring in; more cookie cutters mostly featuring BLS. When the Black Luster Soldier was inevitably banned, the game grew quiet for a while, up until the GX packs.

As with all ban lists (However, this being the first one), people try and emulate the "Top" decks of the prior format given the limitations of the current list. In this case, it was a success because a lot that made Chaos good in the first place was still available (Or overlooked due to other more powerful cards).

After that, packs (Such as AST, SOD, FET, RDS, TLM) offered little to nothing groundbreaking to the games as a whole outside of a good few singles (Such as the Monarchs, Brain, Vortex, Etc.) and many crappy arch-types. In addition, there was a massive Drop Off in players because of IOC and the 2 formats following.



I might get around to addressing some other points in the near future, but currently I'm a bit strapped on time.

[iLiekChaos]

Let's not forget this game is marketed to children. children.

Anyways, I'd rather have a format with "money cards" that ranged from $20-100, right now you need $150 just for a Synchro deck.

[ChainWallets]

You're absolutely right. Too bad Konami doesn't give a flying **** about your opinion.

[Maou]

Let's not forget this game is marketed to children. children.

When a child wins worlds come back to us.

[CrashLove37]

I don't remember any single card before DAD being more than $40, except maybe secret Grandmaster. (Not counting SJC/TP). The only expensive cards back then were playsets of DDraw and Mali. Even during chaos, all my local shops sold BLS/CED for $40.

[ChainWallets]

Malicious was 40-50 and D-Draw was 60-70.

[Valafar123]

I sold DAD in Tele-DAD format.

I +120'd myself. Best play I ever made.

[CrashLove37]

Malicious was 40-50 and D-Draw was 60-70.

They were that high during PC format? You might be right, that's when everything started getting expensive with $60 Trooper and $220 CCV.

[ChainWallets]

I sold DAD in Tele-DAD format.

I +120'd myself. Best play I ever made.

I traded DAD for a Lightsworn deck =]

[Belgrond]

When Il Blud and Necroface was initially released. Il Blud was priced at 120$ and Necroface at 150$. There definitely was cards higher than 40$ prior Dark Armed, its just that players in this game have fairly short memory spans or have selective memories.

[JayLG]

I traded DAD for a Lightsworn deck =]

dayum. was it good though? :]

[absolute ze woah]

As long as people strive to be number one, YuGiOh will never be accessible to everyone.
Some people do lose sight of everything and forget that they are playing with pieces of cardboard so they go all in and spent thousands of dollars to be number one. I read a thread named something along the lines of "Most fun Tier 1 deck" and the first couple of posts, someone posted that if they're playing Tier 1, you play it to win. Not for fun. But then later down the page, people start posting how they have had fun with *insert T1 deck here*. But to all those that have top tier decks, fully completed, I would like to know: Do you play for fun? Or to win?
Personally, I always tell myself that I play YGO because it is a fun, sociable game. My current deck is a Gravekeeper deck I made from two Marik Structure Decks and some trades I have made. Fully complete except Dualities and Solemns. I never play tournaments or go to regionals so the only people I play with are my friends, but in all honesty, my friends are scrubs at yugioh, and like me, never go to tournaments. They use random decks that they like and have fun with and have never bought a card before in their life. Me on the other hand, I've bought 3 Recruiters for my deck. My deck was fine against my friends but why did I spend money on individual cards and not just try to get them from packs like Konami intended? Because I wanted to be better than them and being better meant I was having fun...Or so I thought. Recently for Christmas, I received some money and planned on spending some on a $100 GB deck...Then I thought to myself, has winning gone to far? Are you really going to spend this money just to be better than your friends? To me, that was the point in which having fun, turned to playing to win. Sure a handful of people get lucky and end up having top tier decks for little or no cost, but my question still applies to you also. Why try so hard to get the best deal. The best cards for the cheapest price? Because you want to win, or because you want to have fun?

So to end, I am not raging, but simply want to know why you play. Is it because you have fun playing or just want to win? Yes, this is a rich man's game, but at its heart, it is still a CHILDREN'S CARD GAME . Not yacht racing or whatever example you have to compare YGO. Like, I said. As long as people want to be number one, this game will never be accessible to those who cannot pay. I don't like how YGO works but it's something I have to put up with, yet I still have fun. I still have fun playing with the cards I have received from packs or Structure decks, even if they are not the best cards. I don't want to crush all those who oppose me and be King of Games. I just want to play YuGiOh.

[TunaRolls]

As long as people strive to be number one, YuGiOh will never be accessible to everyone.
Some people do lose sight of everything and forget that they are playing with pieces of cardboard so they go all in and spent thousands of dollars to be number one. I read a thread named something along the lines of "Most fun Tier 1 deck" and the first couple of posts, someone posted that if they're playing Tier 1, you play it to win. Not for fun. But then later down the page, people start posting how they have had fun with *insert T1 deck here*. But to all those that have top tier decks, fully completed, I would like to know: Do you play for fun? Or to win?
Personally, I always tell myself that I play YGO because it is a fun, sociable game. My current deck is a Gravekeeper deck I made from two Marik Structure Decks and some trades I have made. Fully complete except Dualities and Solemns. I never play tournaments or go to regionals so the only people I play with are my friends, but in all honesty, my friends are scrubs at yugioh, and like me, never go to tournaments. They use random decks that they like and have fun with and have never bought a card before in their life. Me on the other hand, I've bought 3 Recruiters for my deck. My deck was fine against my friends but why did I spend money on individual cards and not just try to get them from packs like Konami intended? Because I wanted to be better than them and being better meant I was having fun...Or so I thought. Recently for Christmas, I received some money and planned on spending some on a $100 GB deck...Then I thought to myself, has winning gone to far? Are you really going to spend this money just to be better than your friends? To me, that was the point in which having fun, turned to playing to win. Sure a handful of people get lucky and end up having top tier decks for little or no cost, but my question still applies to you also. Why try so hard to get the best deal. The best cards for the cheapest price? Because you want to win, or because you want to have fun?

So to end, I am not raging, but simply want to know why you play. Is it because you have fun playing or just want to win? Yes, this is a rich man's game, but at its heart, it is still a CHILDREN'S CARD GAME . Not yacht racing or whatever example you have to compare YGO. Like, I said. As long as people want to be number one, this game will never be accessible to those who cannot pay. I don't like how YGO works but it's something I have to put up with, yet I still have fun. I still have fun playing with the cards I have received from packs or Structure decks, even if they are not the best cards. I don't want to crush all those who oppose me and be King of Games. I just want to play YuGiOh.

holy wall of text o_o

UMAD.

[absolute ze woah]

Hah, not mad. Simply inquiring.

[S{t}ack]

Konami is a business and their job is to make as much money for themselves as possible. Your opinion matters nothing to them, and if you quit the game, it won't hurt their profits very much either. To Konami, your opinions are unfortunately irrelevant. They will lower prices only if they think it will help them make more money. This isn't immoral, it's what all businesses do.

There are arguments for both sides. If prices are lowered, skillful budget players could become more competitive. That is definitely a good thing. On the other hand, people who are willing to devote a lot of time and money into the game should be rewarded. Personally, I feel that Pot of Duality was a really great card for a rarity hike. It's not completely necessary, but it does give you a small consistency boost. Hardcore players would buy it. On the other hand, I think Solemn Warning should have remained a common. It's a card that's critical to the success of many decks. The stopping power is a lot more helpful than Duality's consistency boost, so I feel it should have remained widely accessible.

A lot of people are butthurt about Duality but they have to understand that Konami just wants to make more money and doesn't care about their opinion so they might as well stop whining.

[ChainWallets]

dayum. was it good though? :]

It only had 1 Honest =[

[ben7922]

Allow me to summarize some points for everyone

There have always been expensive cards, some times more so than other times.

There are those that want the game to be more accessible(at least consistently), money will take priority over this game to this group at least.

There are those that want the game to remain a rich-man's game only. They would feel pride in their collection and tell those with less to quit.

Rarity hikes become an issue to players not interested in spending much more to remain competitive. Meaning the initial release all the way until reprint/list hit/etc occurs, those with the resources will remain with best odds of winning.

Some are interested in trying what topped out, others only play it to win. This is a gray area between the main groups, but a win that Sparks interest create the classic Supply and demand. Thus giving the early birds and rich guys an edge in that race.

There are those that claim to be good negotiators, buy low sell high, etc instead of money to get those high end cards. These guys are the lucky ones, they find those that would lose out on their collection or desperate players. Either that or stealing, just admitting it as a possibility.

But there is no ultimate end towards either side, both have reasons that are logical. I left the company out of this summary since it is the least responsible of all arguments used thus far. We, the players, directly continue to affect the secondary market. Book of Moon super is a great example, english finally has one at 150 US. Recently nearing 200 US consistently where there are commons and rares everywhere. Or even other languages averaging 115-130 US. Konami makes money no matter the case, it is only those crazy enough to spend enough for a sure thing(PoD for example) take the box instead. Neither side will back down no matter how well the argument is made.

Now I will too request this to be locked soon since this will boiled into a flame thread eventually.

[Thebanlistsuxx]

What good is winning with tele-dad if the majority of players couldnt or didnt want to buy it?

The less people willing to afford a complete tier 1 deck, the less competetive the game becomes.

[The_Dark_Monarch]

This is a very well written and nicely thought out article.

I agree with you to a certain extent, but I can also see the other side of the coin too.

Having good cards in higher rarities also gives serious players an incentive to obtain them.

I am a budget player but I am also rather competitive and for years, I have been trying to reconcile the two aspects. Now, the natural course of my 'dueling career' has led me to run Anti-Meta (I was always a bit of a 'Rogue Duelist' anyway) and I realise that after all this time, I have eventually reached the point whereby I am going to have to open my wallet and actually spend some money on this game.

Of course, I can always go back to running Chain Burn, Empty Jar and whatnot, but I have already seen those decks through to their inconsistent completion and I wish to move forward and not take any backward steps.

Sure, not everybody can afford to blow $300 on a playset of PoD's, $150 on a playset of Doomcalis, $120 on a playset of Warnings or even $80 on a playset of Veilers, let alone try to do all this at once. lol

I know that I cannot and therefore, I have to budget and perhaps go without Subway twice a week and cook @ home instead...do I really need another pair of new shoes when I already have a doz pairs? Do I really want that Playstation game...can I wait a while for it? Instead of buying that CD I like, I can always Torrent it... etc...

If I budget like this, I can save about $150-$200 per month and in a few months, I can own the best deck out there..

That's also not taking into account 'trading up'....it takes a lot of time to turn a folder full of crappy holos into 2-3 decent holos, but it can be done...it just takes a lot of patience and some smart business deals.

Of course, this is no excuse for certain cards to be as expensive as they are, but it's comparable to a sporting hobby...to get the best performance, you need 'state of the art' gear and most often, that comes with a hefty price tag. If you are not that serious about playing tennis (for example), you can still play with a cheap racquet, just don't expect to win Wimbeldon with it.

This is why I don't really blame Konami for making certain cards expensive.
They need to make a buck and the game needs to sort out the 'dedicated' players from the 'fly by night' ones.

[TunaRolls]

Allow me to summarize some points for everyone

There have always been expensive cards, some times more so than other times.

There are those that want the game to be more accessible(at least consistently), money will take priority over this game to this group at least.

There are those that want the game to remain a rich-man's game only. They would feel pride in their collection and tell those with less to quit.

Rarity hikes become an issue to players not interested in spending much more to remain competitive. Meaning the initial release all the way until reprint/list hit/etc occurs, those with the resources will remain with best odds of winning.

Some are interested in trying what topped out, others only play it to win. This is a gray area between the main groups, but a win that Sparks interest create the classic Supply and demand. Thus giving the early birds and rich guys an edge in that race.

There are those that claim to be good negotiators, buy low sell high, etc instead of money to get those high end cards. These guys are the lucky ones, they find those that would lose out on their collection or desperate players. Either that or stealing, just admitting it as a possibility.

But there is no ultimate end towards either side, both have reasons that are logical. I left the company out of this summary since it is the least responsible of all arguments used thus far. We, the players, directly continue to affect the secondary market. Book of Moon super is a great example, english finally has one at 150 US. Recently nearing 200 US consistently where there are commons and rares everywhere. Or even other languages averaging 115-130 US. Konami makes money no matter the case, it is only those crazy enough to spend enough for a sure thing(PoD for example) take the box instead. Neither side will back down no matter how well the argument is made.

Now I will too request this to be locked soon since this will boiled into a flame thread eventually.

Cool Summary bro.

[Mill]

what they need to do is make everything common and make some cards a higher rarity. kinda like the ocg where you can get Graceful Charity common and at its higher rarity in one pack. or any other rare card. my friend bought some OCG packs and actually got the common version and the rare version of the same card in the same pack it was funny stuff. also they don't need the rare version of cards in every pack that way actually saving konamai some money. it isn't much but it does save money.

[StrikeCommander000]

All I'm saying is that there can be a compromise between rich and poor; a "middle class", seeing as we're treating this like it's own economy. Would there really have been harm in making Pot of Duality an Ultra, just giving it a SLIGHTLY better chance at being pulled? It would have still appeased the scalpers and snobs that seem to think they run this game, but at the same time could have made it go from being $100-$130+, to perhaps $80 at most.

I have a bigger problem with single cards going into triple digits than anything else. It favors one side far too much to be reasonable, and weighs down on the other side. Granted, it doesn't help that I have a ****-load of trade scalpers and thieves around my general area, but that's beside the point.

Additional Comment:

what they need to do is make everything common and make some cards a higher rarity. kinda like the ocg where you can get Graceful Charity common and at its higher rarity in one pack. or any other rare card. my friend bought some OCG packs and actually got the common version and the rare version of the same card in the same pack it was funny stuff. also they don't need the rare version of cards in every pack that way actually saving konamai some money. it isn't much but it does save money.

Something like this would be a great boon to the player base in general.

[veteran_noob]

As someone who hasnt played in 3-4 years this thread is really discouraging me from getting back into Yugioh. Just the other day I was reminiscing about the time when I used to play, since the game started for the next 4-5 years and never was it as expensive as it is today. I spent around $1-1.5K in those 4-5 years and always had the top deck, mostly because I was good and won most weekly tournaments, some regionals, good at trading etc.

But the cards that were worth $150 were mostly found in tournament packs(Morphing Jar) and were not needed to have a top tier deck. Sure, Yata Garasu was around $30-40 and so were many other cards, but the staples never cost as much as they do now, $80+ for Pot of Duality, which you need 2-3x of in almost any deck.

I even once made a burn/control deck that was worth no more then $80 and got top4 in regionals with it soon before I quit the game. My point is, this game is a hobby and its not ******* yacht racing as some rich snob **** whose parents gave him a head start in life so he can have his million dollar company put it. It's a kids card game at the end of the day. Yeah, adults play it, probably 60% of players are over 17, but this is a friggin card game and it should not cost your monthly paycheck to be able to stay competitive.

I agree that collectors cards should be expensive, but this game should be about strategy and how you play your deck, not about who can have the more expensive deck. It's only fair to let everyone be able to afford to build good decks, and it should be those who are best at dueling to succeed and those who can make the best decks. Not rich snobs.

I should add that I have been pretty privileged most of my life but I would never look down on someone and tell them to quit cuz they cant afford to buy ridiculously overpriced cards.

[The_Dark_Monarch]

All I'm saying is that there can be a compromise between rich and poor; a "middle class", seeing as we're treating this like it's own economy. Would there really have been harm in making Pot of Duality an Ultra, just giving it a SLIGHTLY better chance at being pulled? It would have still appeased the scalpers and snobs that seem to think they run this game, but at the same time could have made it go from being $100-$130+, to perhaps $80 at most.

That seems to be a pretty fair idealistic approach.

I guess I have turned into one of those 'snobs' because although I am lower class and poor, I have decided to spend my allowance on cardboard instead of other 'luxury items'.

That being said, it just is how it is....yet we still have free will.

As people have pointed out to me, I don't need to run Anti-Meta.
Some have also told me that Anti-Meta does not need Pots of Duality and runs pretty well on 2X Doomcalis and I only need one Warning and can replace the other for Black Horn of Heaven, Divine Wrath, Vanity's Space etc.

In fact, that's how I am doing it at the moment and the deck is really good, just not as 'smooth' as I want it to be.

I could spend ages ********** around with it trying to make it better, or I can be lazy and take a 'short cut'.
Still, the decision is mine and if I feel like I need to spend about $500+ on my deck, I just gotta do it regardless.

[StrikeCommander000]

That seems to be a pretty fair idealistic approach.

I guess I have turned into one of those 'snobs' because although I am lower class and poor, I have decided to spend my allowance on cardboard instead of other 'luxury items'.

That being said, it just is how it is....yet we still have free will.

As people have pointed out to me, I don't need to run Anti-Meta.
Some have also told me that Anti-Meta does not need Pots of Duality and runs pretty well on 2X Doomcalis and I only need one Warning and can replace the other for Black Horn of Heaven, Divine Wrath, Vanity's Space etc.

In fact, that's how I am doing it at the moment and the deck is really good, just not as 'smooth' as I want it to be.

I could spend ages ********** around with it trying to make it better, or I can be lazy and take a 'short cut'.
Still, the decision is mine and if I feel like I need to spend about $500+ on my deck, I just gotta do it regardless.

Good points made. I'm trying really, REALLY hard right now to bite the bullet and get myself two PoDs (being how everyone at my hobby stores likes to scalp for trades, I usually have to resort to buying singles), but it's proving difficult. I'm basically looking for "best Offer" on eBay and trying to negotiate.

[Mr Flibbles]

You guys are all ignorant. It all boils down to a game. If you can afford to play, then play and enjoy. If you can't, too bad. The world doesn't cater to you. Yacht racing is fun but its expensive, so should yachts be sold at 5 dollars a piece so everybody who wants to yacht race be given a chance? No. Maybe in an ideal or perfect world everything would be free and cheap for everyone but it isn't so quit crying. Nobody is making you play. Find something else to cry about if you cannot afford to play.

You are everything that is wrong with this game. Sit down, shut your mouth, and pay attention.

First, if you are actually rich, and not the troll I think you are, congrats. You are eligible to take part in this game at its best, since Konami's rarity hikes have raised the secondary market to the point where only people with your affluence can consistently afford the best cards without investing any time. The rest of the populace is faced with the prospect of either spending money they don't have on the secondary market, investing time in trying to trade for the high dollar cards at a lower value, or spending money on packs to try and get the good cards at a cheaper price (See what I did there folks, I just linked the secondary and primary markets).

Sure, the first two options are viable, the second more so than the first, but time is money, and if you are spending time trading for cards that are both scarce and expensive, you are likely spending a lot more time trying to trade than playing the game, and there is honestly no guarantee the time you are putting in will net you the cards you want. Pre D-Draw eras have had their pricey cards too, but they really didn't exceed $30 most of the time. Couple that with the fact is was very easy to get most of the staple cards due to a higher Supply of them between lower rarities (Raigeki) or more of the same Secrets opened before there were a zillion a set (Jinzo, Imperial Order, etc) it was feasible to trade for what you wanted, and if you had to buy one or two cards, it wouldn't break your budget.

Second, the rarity hikes do actually help Konami's pocketbook, and they don't even have to benefit from the secondary market directly. The presence of the ludicrously expensive secondary market means more sales for Konami in the short run, because people without the budget for the secondary market (which, let's face it, is the majority) play the lottery known as booster packs, trying to get that Pot of Duality or Solemn Warning they are coveting. Konami gets the profits from the money spent on this endeavor win or lose, until the majority of people get frustrated with the inability to get the card(s) they want and stop buying the product. They then appease those they've alienated with a much easier lottery, something like the special editions or tins, where people spend their next payday's budget on that until they get what they want, along with an extra or two perhaps to trade for other stuff to try and break the cyclical rut they are in.

Third, and finally, don't compare yachts to cardboard, the cost to manufacture a yacht greatly exceeds that of a trading card, and if you are half as educated and worldly as you claim, you would realize that yachts are going to cost more because of this simple fact. Card games should not fall into a comparable category because it takes virtually nothing to manufacture them once you have the equipment to do so. That isn't to say that hobbies shouldn't cost money, but if Konami keeps along the trend, people are going to come to the conclusion I came to ages ago: Wait out their reprint, then purchase the product if I can get my money's worth, or the single from the secondary market if I can't (because honestly, I don't want to pay extra for things like dated packs I don't need when I can just get the single).

That's right Konami, I don't buy nearly the amount of product I used to, because I've caught on to how you work. I used to buy lots of product because I could reasonably use it to trade for things I needed if I didn't pull the chase cards, nowadays I can't say I can do that without a lot of good luck. Until the players start getting more of a break on the rarity issue and the secondary market starts deflating for chase cards, it's going to stay that way too.

[Alpha&Omega]

You are everything that is wrong with this game. Sit down, shut your mouth, and pay attention.

First, if you are actually rich, and not the troll I think you are, congrats. You are eligible to take part in this game at its best, since Konami's rarity hikes have raised the secondary market to the point where only people with your affluence can consistently afford the best cards without investing any time. The rest of the populace is faced with the prospect of either spending money they don't have on the secondary market, investing time in trying to trade for the high dollar cards at a lower value, or spending money on packs to try and get the good cards at a cheaper price (See what I did there folks, I just linked the secondary and primary markets).

Sure, the first two options are viable, the second more so than the first, but time is money, and if you are spending time trading for cards that are both scarce and expensive, you are likely spending a lot more time trying to trade than playing the game, and there is honestly no guarantee the time you are putting in will net you the cards you want. Pre D-Draw eras have had their pricey cards too, but they really didn't exceed $30 most of the time. Couple that with the fact is was very easy to get most of the staple cards due to a higher Supply of them between lower rarities (Raigeki) or more of the same Secrets opened before there were a zillion a set (Jinzo, Imperial Order, etc) it was feasible to trade for what you wanted, and if you had to buy one or two cards, it wouldn't break your budget.

Second, the rarity hikes do actually help Konami's pocketbook, and they don't even have to benefit from the secondary market directly. The presence of the ludicrously expensive secondary market means more sales for Konami in the short run, because people without the budget for the secondary market (which, let's face it, is the majority) play the lottery known as booster packs, trying to get that Pot of Duality or Solemn Warning they are coveting. Konami gets the profits from the money spent on this endeavor win or lose, until the majority of people get frustrated with the inability to get the card(s) they want and stop buying the product. They then appease those they've alienated with a much easier lottery, something like the special editions or tins, where people spend their next payday's budget on that until they get what they want, along with an extra or two perhaps to trade for other stuff to try and break the cyclical rut they are in.

Third, and finally, don't compare yachts to cardboard, the cost to manufacture a yacht greatly exceeds that of a trading card, and if you are half as educated and worldly as you claim, you would realize that yachts are going to cost more because of this simple fact. Card games should not fall into a comparable category because it takes virtually nothing to manufacture them once you have the equipment to do so. That isn't to say that hobbies shouldn't cost money, but if Konami keeps along the trend, people are going to come to the conclusion I came to ages ago: Wait out their reprint, then purchase the product if I can get my money's worth, or the single from the secondary market if I can't (because honestly, I don't want to pay extra for things like dated packs I don't need when I can just get the single).

That's right Konami, I don't buy nearly the amount of product I used to, because I've caught on to how you work. I used to buy lots of product because I could reasonably use it to trade for things I needed if I didn't pull the chase cards, nowadays I can't say I can do that without a lot of good luck. Until the players start getting more of a break on the rarity issue and the secondary market starts deflating for chase cards, it's going to stay that way too.


You are naive. You can write out as much pseudo-intellectual jargon as you want, and you might actually convince people that you know what you're talking about, but you don't. Konami does not create the secondary market. They have no influence on it whatsoever, it is solely determined by the player base. If you have any doubt about that just take a look at the DSF format. DSF was a super rare and it went for $100 at nationals. Or why not look at the other secrets/ultras that have been printed since their takeover. Why have so many of those cards fallen by the wayside, only to collect dust in the back of a trade binder? It couldn't possibly be that the players themselves deemed them unworthy of playing, ultimately depreciating their value DESPITE the fact that they are Secrets/Ultras? Card values are solely determined by their demand in the competitive scene, nothing more, nothing less.

Do you want to know why Konami bumps rarities? Konami has to create an incentive to sell packs. The cost of printing/distributing/advertising adds up and without a means to sell packs how could they possibly keep the game running? You might look at it as though they're an evil corporation who cares nothing about the player base, and only cares about profit, but they aren't. First and foremost they are a business, so yes profit is at the forefront of their concerns. But they do care about the player base. One needs to look no further than the multitudes of reprints since they've taken over. I mean Gold Series is designed with the intent of providing hard to get cards to the masses. Yet so many people, like you, overlook the fact that each year a lot of the money cards will get reprinted.

The sad thing is, none of this matters. At the end of the day there will always be people like you who feel victimized because you can't afford high end cards and there will be people who can. Me? I can't afford Pot of Duality, it's too expensive for my taste, but I get along just fine without it. It doesn't hinder me from playing competitively, and best of all I am fully aware and ok with the fact that it's only as expensive as it is because it's in high demand. I have reason to believe that even if it were a Rare/Super it would still retain a high price tag because it's in high demand. Just suck it up already.

[The_Dark_Monarch]

Good points made. I'm trying really, REALLY hard right now to bite the bullet and get myself two PoDs (being how everyone at my hobby stores likes to scalp for trades, I usually have to resort to buying singles), but it's proving difficult. I'm basically looking for "best Offer" on eBay and trying to negotiate.

The best I have seen on e-bay is Troll & Toad selling them for $114 each.

(Over here in Australia, they are about $130 each)
*inb4 price trolls*

I have been told that they go on e-bay for $80-$90 each, but I have never actually been on e-bay when that has ever happened. LMAO

[StrikeCommander000]

The best I have seen on e-bay is Troll & Toad selling them for $114 each.

(Over here in Australia, they are about $130 each)
*inb4 price trolls*

I have been told that they go on e-bay for $80-$90 each, but I have never actually been on e-bay when that has ever happened. LMAO

I go for ones that are "BIN/Best Offer"; I make an offer w/a note stating I would like to purchase the card (usually overly-nice as a way to convince them). Then, I simply wait it out.

[Belgrond]

Like Alpha&Omega and other various posters have mentioned. Its players that create a demand, ultimately its price on the secondary market. Though, I will add that generally, its quite difficult for most companies to predict with great accuracy which product will sell better than most. Similarly, cards designed well in theory, and even if bumped into its highest rarity will often at times be ignored, or it becomes forgotten quite fast after its initial hype. Like most of us, we generally play simply at the local level, in which case it is fairly easy to win with little to no "money" cards. Even at regional levels, you tend to see players top in such a fashion, with budget or inexpensive anti-meta decks.


StrikeCommander000, it cannot be disputed that Pot of Duality adds consistency to deck, nor that Solemn Warning changes game tempo. However, knowing this you can still achieve a superior line of play against a capable opponent with such cards. As a game, remember that neither you nor your opponent truly know what kind of branching or arching plays the game can swing into. Inexpensive cards such Trap Stun, Seven Tools of the Bandit have won me my fair share of 40-man locals due to its ability to prevent tempo swings from Solemn Warning.

Its all about making do with what you can, and with what resources you do have. If you try to keep up with the "money"/"value" cards all the time, it generally just adds to a loss, both financially, or trade wise in the future. As Alpha&Omega has mentioned, its best to just wait for the inevitable reprints of such cards, as they always do in the long run.

[Mr Flibbles]

You are naive. You can write out as much pseudo-intellectual jargon as you want, and you might actually convince people that you know what you're talking about, but you don't. Konami does not create the secondary market. They have no influence on it whatsoever, it is solely determined by the player base. If you have any doubt about that just take a look at the DSF format. DSF was a super rare and it went for $100 at nationals. Or why not look at the other secrets/ultras that have been printed since their takeover. Why have so many of those cards fallen by the wayside, only to collect dust in the back of a trade binder? It couldn't possibly be that the players themselves deemed them unworthy of playing, ultimately depreciating their value DESPITE the fact that they are Secrets/Ultras? Card values are solely determined by their demand in the competitive scene, nothing more, nothing less.

Do you want to know why Konami bumps rarities? Konami has to create an incentive to sell packs. The cost of printing/distributing/advertising adds up and without a means to sell packs how could they possibly keep the game running? You might look at it as though they're an evil corporation who cares nothing about the player base, and only cares about profit, but they aren't. First and foremost they are a business, so yes profit is at the forefront of their concerns. But they do care about the player base. One needs to look no further than the multitudes of reprints since they've taken over. I mean Gold Series is designed with the intent of providing hard to get cards to the masses. Yet so many people, like you, overlook the fact that each year a lot of the money cards will get reprinted.

The sad thing is, none of this matters. At the end of the day there will always be people like you who feel victimized because you can't afford high end cards and there will be people who can. Me? I can't afford Pot of Duality, it's too expensive for my taste, but I get along just fine without it. It doesn't hinder me from playing competitively, and best of all I am fully aware and ok with the fact that it's only as expensive as it is because it's in high demand. I have reason to believe that even if it were a Rare/Super it would still retain a high price tag because it's in high demand. Just suck it up already.

You call that an argument?

First: Never once did I say Konami created the secondary market, I said they are linked. Furthermore, I also never said that they are exclusively linked. Sure, there are other major factors that influence the secondary market. Your DSF example explains Supply and demand. The demand for DSFs was so high that people were willing to pay that amount for a mere Super Rare. Apart from that extreme outlier though, can you honestly tell me a card like Gateway of the Six wouldn't be at $50+ at Ultra right now, $80+ at Secret? Its really good, and the new set has people anticipating it to be better, but the higher Supply keeps it down. The reason I didn't bring the player demand point up is because it has been beaten to death on these forums so many times it isn't funny. We all know players have an influence on the secondary market, a potent one at that, it's common sense. I'm here to bring up other issues that aren't being addressed, specifically, that Konami can influence the Supply of a card, which plays a role in the secondary market.

Second: You haven't actually disproven my argument regarding how Konami cycles product. I have already acknowledged the reprints as part of the system, I've even acknowledged them as the part of the system I look for, but that doesn't solve our current problem, now does it? All you have done is reiterate what I already said and made an attack on me, making the assumption that I feel I need to have cards like Pot of Duality to play the game. What I want is to have access to the card if I should choose to play it. You also assume I don't recognize the merit of the current strategy on Konami's end. What you do not realize is the fact that the players influence how well that strategy plays out ultimately. We can either keep playing along, or we can circumvent a major aspect of revenue until they make it desirable again. Money talks, and if Konami starts seeing less money from their current strategy, we might start seeing more results from the marketing end.

[The_Dark_Monarch]

Like Alpha&Omega and other various posters have mentioned. Its players that create a demand, ultimately its price on the secondary market. Though, I will add that generally, its quite difficult for most companies to predict with great accuracy which product will sell better than most. Similarly, cards designed well in theory, and even if bumped into its highest rarity will often at times be ignored, or it becomes forgotten quite fast after its initial hype. Like most of us, we generally play simply at the local level, in which case it is fairly easy to win with little to no "money" cards. Even at regional levels, you tend to see players top in such a fashion, with budget or inexpensive anti-meta decks.


StrikeCommander000, it cannot be disputed that Pot of Duality adds consistency to deck, nor that Solemn Warning changes game tempo. However, knowing this you can still achieve a superior line of play against a capable opponent with such cards. As a game, remember that neither you nor your opponent truly know what kind of branching or arching plays the game can swing into. Inexpensive cards such Trap Stun, Seven Tools of the Bandit have won me my fair share of 40-man locals due to its ability to prevent tempo swings from Solemn Warning.

Its all about making do with what you can, and with what resources you do have. If you try to keep up with the "money"/"value" cards all the time, it generally just adds to a loss, both financially, or trade wise in the future. As Alpha&Omega has mentioned, its best to just wait for the inevitable reprints of such cards, as they always do in the long run.

Yeah, I guess I have just 'sold out' over the many years you have known me...

If I also did not have such a 'cut throat' locals, I would not be worrying so much...

Thing is, I could use less expensive alternatives (and do...like I previously stated), but if cards like Pot Of Duality and Solemn Warning can make my deck better, why not just go for it and dang the expense?

I could also wait for the reprints, but if I need the cards then, why wouldn't I need them now?

I totally understand what you are saying though...my heart agrees, my head does not.

In the end, I figure that the game is only expensive as you want it to be.

If you are doing well without certain money cards, kudos to you. I applaud you. If you don't need them, this gives you absolutely no right to whine about the price of them though.

If your deck is performing like crap and you are fed up with fixing it and you personally feel that you need certain money cards to make it better, I can feel your pain, but if you are prepared to buy them at any cost, it gives you absolutely no right to whine about the price of them either.

.....welcome to me becoming the animal that I hate.

[Belgrond]

Its all a matter of preference I suppose, Dark Monarch. In my case, I chose not actively trade for them.

Truth be told, I'm one of the few traders who looks at trends over in Japan, then analyzes which cards might be wanted months ahead. I collected about 15 Snowman Eaters 6 months before its rise in popularity here. It allowed me to sway trades in my favour, fairly easily. Same for Absolute Zero, prior to its inevitable release, I collected 10 rare, and 3 ultimate Miracle Fusion, months ahead.

In exchange though, I tend to avoid killing what resources I do have to trade for cards like Pot of Duality which like all money cards rapidly drops its value over time. I hedge against value losses, by either acquiring good cards that are low in demand, or through extremely high rarity cards that are not quite in demand but are resistent to trade value losses in the future.

[Alpha&Omega]

You call that an argument?

First: Never once did I say Konami created the secondary market, I said they are linked. Furthermore, I also never said that they are exclusively linked. Sure, there are other major factors that influence the secondary market. Your DSF example explains Supply and demand. The demand for DSFs was so high that people were willing to pay that amount for a mere Super Rare. Apart from that extreme outlier though, can you honestly tell me a card like Gateway of the Six wouldn't be at $50+ at Ultra right now, $80+ at Secret? Its really good, and the new set has people anticipating it to be better, but the higher Supply keeps it down. The reason I didn't bring the player demand point up is because it has been beaten to death on these forums so many times it isn't funny. We all know players have an influence on the secondary market, a potent one at that, it's common sense. I'm here to bring up other issues that aren't being addressed, specifically, that Konami can influence the Supply of a card, which plays a role in the secondary market.

Second: You haven't actually disproven my argument regarding how Konami cycles product. I have already acknowledged the reprints as part of the system, I've even acknowledged them as the part of the system I look for, but that doesn't solve our current problem, now does it? All you have done is reiterate what I already said and made an attack on me, making the assumption that I feel I need to have cards like Pot of Duality to play the game. What I want is to have access to the card if I should choose to play it. You also assume I don't recognize the merit of the current strategy on Konami's end. What you do not realize is the fact that the players influence how well that strategy plays out ultimately. We can either keep playing along, or we can circumvent a major aspect of revenue until they make it desirable again. Money talks, and if Konami starts seeing less money from their current strategy, we might start seeing more results from the marketing end.


Actually that isn't a hard concept to grasp, I understand it fully. The thing is, I used to be like you. I can draw all sorts of parallels between how metas are formed via ban lists and the marketing that Konami does to correlate. My biggest argument was the Lightsworn format(September '09), which happened to coincide with Twilight Edition/ANPR SE/SOVR SE. I mean I highly doubt that that the flurry of Lightsworn oriented reprints were a coincidence.

The difference between you and I is that I decided it was futile to raise these points. You believe players can stop buying product and in turn get a point across to Konami. What you don't realize is that the competitive scene in YGO is hardly a fraction of their revenue. They make the majority of their money from kids who aspire to be Yugi/Jaden/Yusei, and these cards give them the opportunity to emulate their heroes. So long as that's the case, the competitive scene will always be tossed to the side. We'll forever be in the cycle of chase card-->players raise price-->players buy more packs--->stock is emptied-->reprints.

If you want to play a game where the players have a voice, play MTG.

[TunaRolls]

We need to get together for a Boycott. If we get enough players, competitive or not, we can make a difference. My hopes for a good TCG is below:

1) Make staples and certain cards more available to the public. Emmersblade and Duality are examples. This will increase Supply and reduce prices on demand.

Cards that need to be ran in three's should never have rarity and low Supply associated with their prices. The only thing that should dictate values for such cards are demand (How good the card is) and not how hard it is to obtain as well. Ghost rares are a good example of what "hard to get" cards should be. They exist as lower rarity cards, and yet still provide collectors something to yearn for. With this, reprints should no longer be an issue.

Actually, just make all "needed" cards Ultra or lower and never a secret.

2) Official Ruling pages and enforcement of the rules at Sneak Peeks + etc..

3) Release TCG/OCG exclusives en masse and hasten the release of certain sets/decks so we can be at the same pace as the OCG meta game. This would give us a more realistic World Championships and not the BS the contendors have to deal wiith.

4) Release 2-3 cards of each Archtype per Set. Regardless of it being new or old. Taking an entire sets' space with a single archtype is not fair for all the other archtypes who need support. Also, it leads to Tier 0 syndrome occasionally.

5) Train Judges to make sure they're up to it. Amateur deck checks can ruin tournaments. Also, hire more judges per event.

[Alpha&Omega]

Its all a matter of preference I suppose. In my case, I chose not actively trade for them.

Truth be told, I'm one of the few traders who looks at trends over in Japan, T
then analyzes which cards might be wanted months ahead. I collected about 15 Snowman Eaters 6 months before its rise in popularity here. It allowed me to sway trades in my favour, fairly easily. Same for Absolute Zero, prior to its inevitable release, I collected 10 rare, and 3 ultimate Miracle Fusion, months ahead.

In exchange though, I tend to avoid killing what resources I do have to trade for cards like Pot of Duality which like all money cards rapidly drops its value over time. I hedge against value losses, by either acquiring good cards that are low in demand, or through extremely high rarity cards that are not quite in demand but are resistent to trade value losses in the future.


Yeah I don't understand why more players don't do this, although if the recent Samurai trend is any indication, people are starting pick up on it.

I remember before TeleDAD emerged, it was doing decent in Japan. It was right around the Sept '08 format. People were dumping off DDraws and Malis because they were afraid of it getting hit. I stocked up on them and managed to have access to any deck I wanted that format.

[Belgrond]

The problem lies in that a player/trader in question would have to actively check outlying trends. Few players/traders can look that far ahead of what the current meta or flavour of the month is. The main difference is knowing what is generally player overestimating cards and undervalued good cards. However, its not always accurate nor is it perfect, so it can and may Backfire at times.

Its the same as real market trading,years back people actively bought houses which caused an inflationary spike on prices, but very few people saw the bubble for what it is and sold early. The information for it was there, its just people did not actively seek it.

[Mr Flibbles]

Actually that isn't a hard concept to grasp, I understand it fully. The thing is, I used to be like you. I can draw all sorts of parallels between how metas are formed via ban lists and the marketing that Konami does to correlate. My biggest argument was the Lightsworn format(September '09), which happened to coincide with Twilight Edition/ANPR SE/SOVR SE. I mean I highly doubt that that the flurry of Lightsworn oriented reprints were a coincidence.

The difference between you and I is that I decided it was futile to raise these points. You believe players can stop buying product and in turn get a point across to Konami. What you don't realize is that the competitive scene in YGO is hardly a fraction of their revenue. They make the majority of their money from kids who aspire to be Yugi/Jaden/Yusei, and these cards give them the opportunity to emulate their heroes. So long as that's the case, the competitive scene will always be tossed to the side. We'll forever be in the cycle of chase card-->players raise price-->players buy more packs--->stock is emptied-->reprints.

If you want to play a game where the players have a voice, play MTG.

I don't voice my thoughts often anymore, mostly where I think they'll do the most good. In giving up completely though, you do nothing, in trying, you at least have a chance of doing something. As someone who has studied Konami's profits extensively, they aren't the most stable company by any means. Any sort of major sting to their pocket is one they are likely to notice. I recognize there is more than a little idealism here, but the tools are there to fix this problem. Besides, if competitive players didn't hold any kind of sway, why does Konami hold YCS events and the like?

-Oh, and I do play MTG, and I like that Wizards pays attention to what players have to say, and they're open about that fact. Konami does listen to what we have to say occasionally, but they don't keep us in the loop as to what we, as players, influence, and they don't listen quite as well as I'd like. Quite frankly, Konami really could learn a thing or two from WotC, and I've been saying that ever since Wizards reached out to the YGO community during the UDE-Konami fallout.

[Maou]

Like I said earlier, I have a tier 1 deck paying minimal dollars as well as the cards for 6-7 deck types all out of October with only about 200-300$ spent (which isn't even bad by today's standard $'s).

Really this is exactly the same as a Casual Vs. Hardcore Raider issue in World of Warcraft. If you are not going to spend the time (and in this case, a bit of wallet cash) to play at the top tier of this game, then you forfeit that yourself. It's not the companies fault in any means.

Supply and demand.

[Silentscope]

while i agree with the OP this is a hobby which requires money to be put into it to be good. Perfect examples of similar hobbys which are popular are racing rc planes/cars/boats, building models. This is not the cheapest hobby, but it is certainly not the most expensive one.

I personally would never spend the $ on pot of duality. But solemn warning I sucked it up, and bought my 2 copies which makes my deck more competive to have fun.

Will Smith I think said it best in the movie The Pursuit of happiness
"If you want something, work for it period"

Suck it up, work at McDonalds part time make some money, take a LONG shower when you get home. Spend money on yugioh, Have fun.

[Alpha&Omega]

I don't voice my thoughts often anymore, mostly where I think they'll do the most good. In giving up completely though, you do nothing, in trying, you at least have a chance of doing something. As someone who has studied Konami's profits extensively, they aren't the most stable company by any means. Any sort of major sting to their pocket is one they are likely to notice. I recognize there is more than a little idealism here, but the tools are there to fix this problem. Besides, if competitive players didn't hold any kind of sway, why does Konami hold YCS events and the like?

-Oh, and I do play MTG, and I like that Wizards pays attention to what players have to say, and they're open about that fact. Konami does listen to what we have to say occasionally, but they don't keep us in the loop as to what we, as players, influence, and they don't listen quite as well as I'd like. Quite frankly, Konami really could learn a thing or two from WotC, and I've been saying that ever since Wizards reached out to the YGO community during the UDE-Konami fallout.

Haha wow, I completely overlooked the MTG link in your signature. I agree, if Konami were to take some advice from WoTC the game would flourish in a way that it never has before. At least from a design standpoint, this game would finally evolve in a way that has been needed for years.

[steelers78]

good points you actually have changed my mind from these points

[asciicat]

I dislike synchros. The basic synchros you need are like $10+ each. Brionac is like 25 and ****. The only synchro I have ever bought is stardust for 10. Then I traded it away later. I play with no synchros now

Also, budget player here, and I see no point in holo stuff. I would rather have the cheapest **** than have some expensive card, when they both do the same thing

[StrikeCommander000]

I dislike synchros. The basic synchros you need are like $10+ each. Brionac is like 25 and ****. The only synchro I have ever bought is stardust for 10. Then I traded it away later. I play with no synchros now

Also, budget player here, and I see no point in holo stuff. I would rather have the cheapest **** than have some expensive card, when they both do the same thing

Synchros were a great idea, but horribly executed. If the Tuners hadn't been as ridiculously overpowered as Plaguespreader and Gale, and if the most powerful Synchros weren't all ridiculously generic, we'd be slightly better off.

[Glad-Crystal]

I dislike synchros. The basic synchros you need are like $10+ each. Brionac is like 25 and ****. The only synchro I have ever bought is stardust for 10. Then I traded it away later. I play with no synchros now

Also, budget player here, and I see no point in holo stuff. I would rather have the cheapest **** than have some expensive card, when they both do the same thing

my exact thoughts on the holo point.
people pay way to much for foil versions when the less rare versions are, less expensive! OMG, Mind = Blown

seri, a common playset of lets say Gravekeepers Spy does THE EXACT SAME THING as the foil version.
Only thing special about a foil Spy is how it can bend and curve and make the other player think you're marking your deck >>

Additional Comment:

Synchros were a great idea, but horribly executed. If the Tuners hadn't been as ridiculously overpowered as Plaguespreader and Gale, and if the most powerful Synchros weren't all ridiculously generic, we'd be slightly better off.

Maybe the Exceed Summon mechanic will fix it?

[Uento]

my exact thoughts on the holo point.
people pay way to much for foil versions when the less rare versions are, less expensive! OMG, Mind = Blown

seri, a common playset of lets say Gravekeepers Spy does THE EXACT SAME THING as the foil version.
Only thing special about a foil Spy is how it can bend and curve and make the other player think you're marking your deck >>

Additional Comment:



Maybe the Exceed Summon mechanic will fix it?

People with money want to show it off. That's why you have Millionaies buy name-brand clothing, rather than the same thing at walmart. I don't see why it surprises you so much.

[ccayco]

To some people, it's a hobby. To other people, it's a sport (I guess). It started off humble, but now it's not. The game has grown, and you need to accept that's how it it. Some will be happy while others won't, but that's how it is.

People who take it as more than a hobby will pay more for cards they think will improve their deck competitively, so any business will take advantage of that. Duh. If you play for fun, you don't need PoD or Warning, but you can still have fun.

If it's for fun, have fun. If it's for competition, then treat it that way. Do what you feel you need to do to win (aside cheating, you dirty stackers), like buying high dollar cards.

Konami is still making a lot of money off this game and how they're running it (into the ground maybe, but still), so why would they change anything? (That's rhetorical, and I swear to God nobody better answer that question)

Why are we debating over this? Baseball cards are valued at thousands and nobody moans about that. You can't say, "You've triggered my Jim Thome Rookie card!" Seriously. Seriously.

/thread

[catking5]

I am surprised many are not starting to see the big picture. Konami created this mess by constantly ******* up the TCG, time and time again. We continue to let them do this. This is in many ways similar to the whole mess with the card legality issue. If they were to go down to a mere two secrets per set and bump , say, POD and Solemn Warning to that, with the current pull rates, that would be fair for once. Japan gets our exclusives easily! We don't exactly get theirs easily, may I remind you! I propose a solution to this whole mess, start treating the TCG and OCG as equals.

No more Rarity bumps.
More packs (like the Premium Packs, Jump Feista (though changed in the TCG of course)
A TCG extra pack to help release OCG only cards and the remaining Shonen Jump Cards.

Additional Comment:

my exact thoughts on the holo point.
people pay way to much for foil versions when the less rare versions are, less expensive! OMG, Mind = Blown

seri, a common playset of lets say Gravekeepers Spy does THE EXACT SAME THING as the foil version.
Only thing special about a foil Spy is how it can bend and curve and make the other player think you're marking your deck >>

Additional Comment:



Maybe the Exceed Summon mechanic will fix it?

The reded part of the quote shows how ignorant people can be. Foil cards tend to be drawn more. Sudenly the common and supper spys are a lot different

[Teh1n00b]

I think the best way to combat the rarity problem is to go back to 2 secrets per set one from the 24 count box an the other from the 36 count box lower box prices back to 60-70$ max then you are guarenteed the secret yu want and people will still buy the boxes if they want/need the secret if you make sets 200+ cards with playable cards for the competitve scene you will make much more in the long run this also opens up yugioh to rotating sets but thats a whole differnt topic. I hate that they are making playable cards super expensive but I understand Konami is a business and they are trying to make their money.

[Painted-Wisdom]

the business is mine and its invested money in hedge funds --->opening subway franchise. and the grammar is that way because i obviously dont want to put more effort than i do in posting on forums. if u can read it then the point is across. i really dont care if u believe me or not but it is what it is, and crying on forums about card rarities and money is sad. go do something useful. heh

you are a sad product of current capitalist society ^^.
Good job on having no problem buying things, please realise that some1 like you in means of money, does not represent the rest of the YGO community.
Lots of people have less to spend.
If you can't handle people having a problem with something, just because it doesn't fit your point of view please do not speak until you realise that critisizing such points of view would be ignorant.
Oh and btw, the american school system is sooo bad XD.

to any1 who feels they should be critisizing my grammar: I don't care, english is not my 1st language, it's in the middle of the night ^^.

[ThaVega]

When I used to play YuGiOh in real life, which was long time ago, I have never spent more than 15 dollars, freakin' 15 dollars. I don't want to pay for card game that much. Well, I just bough one structure deck (spellcaster judgement) and I traded for some cards I found lying on street or I was given (such as Petit Dragon - some people like cute stuff so I traded for them). At one point, I had couple of rare cards (SDY Dark magician, Kazejin, XYZVW Dragon Catapult Cannon, Magical Hats) that I still keep and I am kinda connected to them as they are part of my childhood. Now I play this game only online. I never liked someone who had all the cards in the world, but it really doesn't matter. Someone had Chaos Emperor Dragon and Black Luster Soldier, both in deck (it was Chaos era) but he wasn't smart enough to prevent some of my moves with common cards (Such as Monster Reborn and others). So yeah, I had chance playing with common and some rare cards and collect the deck that may cost much later on. And guess who may want to buy it, those people who spend so much money on this game. But then the cards got expensive, the game died since we are a poor country (Serbia) and the shop got closed. The prices are what is killing this game's soul. They should print common cards that everyone will buy and some rares but let the price be affordable to mid class at least. They lost all the profit they could gain by selling cards by lower prices for 5 years.

[Valafar123]

Effing VAT went up to 20% where I am.

That's why I only buy singles.

[ccayco]

Nobody has acknowledged what was said earlier...

Konami wants money. They know competitive players will fork over the money to get cards. We buy their cards. They make money.

WOW, THAT WAS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND GUYS. Let's keep arguing.

[Valafar123]

Nobody has acknowledged what was said earlier...

Konami wants money. They know competitive players will fork over the money to get cards. We buy their cards. They make money.

WOW, THAT WAS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND GUYS. Let's keep arguing.

Yes, let us.

[ccayco]

It's just people have been complaining about this since back in the LOD days when Mirror Force was still $40. Big deal. If you really play for "fun", then go play. We play competitively and, like most sports or competitive activity, it takes money. It sucks, but that's how it is.

If you're going to put time, money and energy into something, then why do it half assed?

[Valafar123]

It's just people have been complaining about this since back in the LOD days when Mirror Force was still $40. Big deal. If you really play for "fun", then go play. We play competitively and, like most sports or competitive activity, it takes money. It sucks, but that's how it is.

If you're going to put time, money and energy into something, then why do it half assed?

Just for the hell of it.

[TheSinisterSerpent]

Oddly I actually understand and agree with both sides of the coin.

As a player, I personally hate the rarity upgrades and high-priced cards. I have had a personal rule through my time playing YuGiOh that I wouldn't spend more than $35 on any particular single card. The list of cards that I have actually spent $35 on is pretty small as well.

I don't have access to Solemn Warnings or Pot of Dualities which is somewhat annoying since I would love to have them. It makes deck-building difficult since Pot just makes some decks so much more consistent that it doesn't seem worth making the decks without having Pot of Duality.

So from a player's perspective it is annoying that these cards that received a rarity upgrade are so expensive as it makes it nearly impossible to build certain decks without dropping a large amount of cash on them.

Yet, from a business standpoint I understand and even appreciate these rarity upgrades. As far as I know YuGiOh is becoming less popular with the young children which means that they are going to be losing sales in places like Wal-Mart. I know for a fact that in my local area that YuGiOh has been declining in popularity since the GX era. We still have our Wal-Mart shelves stocked with Rainbow Dragon and Ancient Fairy Dragon tins.

Since there is a drop in sales from one demographic, young children, you need to supplement your sales by increasing revenue from your other major demographic, tournament players. Most tournament players I know get all of their cards for their deck by buying singles online as your odds of pulling the exact cards you need is quite low, especially when you need a playset of three ultra rares. When you need cards that are like $5-8 each it means people are less willing to buy boxes because it is cheaper to just get the singles you need and be done with it.

Online stores and eBay vendors are less likely to buy boxes in mass quantities if the "chase" card(s) are only worth $15-20. It is too hard to make your money back by hoping to pull cards that are worth $20. Duelist Revolution was, in my opinion, an experiment on Konami's behalf.

They knew that Pot of Duality and Solemn Warning were going to the chase cards. By upgrading Pot of Duality to secret rare you insure that the ratio of pulling Pot of Duality is 1 in 8 boxes (assuming that all of the secrets are weighted equally). By upgrading Solemn Warning to ultra rare you insure that the odds of pulling Solemn Warning is 1 in 3.33 boxes (assuming that all of the ultras and weighted equally).

Since everyone wants multiple copies of Pot of Duality you are looking at 24 boxes moved per playset of Pot of Duality.

Why do I think it was an experiment? Well they had two extremely splashable cards that were worthy of the rarity upgrade. As much as people hated the rarity upgrades, I think we can all agree that the cards are good enough to warrant their rarity upgrades. The real experiment was to see if the tournament player population was willing to dish out cash where they previously had not dished out cash before.

Tournament players don't buy boxes, they buy singles. I have only ever bought a single box in my life, Phantom Darkness. I truly feel this is the first set in a long time that is worthy of buying a box in hopes of hitting those 1:8 odds for a Pot of Duality or 1:3.33 odds of a Solemn Warning. It is too bad for me that Duelist Revolution is sold out on eBay as well as Troll and Toad, it looks like their experiment is working, because nobody can get their hands on the set.

Now back on topic to the OP. I do agree with a few of his points, in particular his opinion on secret rares.

Back in the day there was only two secret rares in a set. Your hobby secret (36-Pack boxes) and your retail secrets (24-pack boxes and blisters). I think your odds of pulling a secret rare was 1:48 packs? The two secret rare system was great and I think the game would benefit from reducing the number of secret rares and/or increasing your chances of pulling a secret rare.

Change it from 8 secrets to 2 secrets per set. Make the pull ratio 1:48 packs. This means you will get one of the two secrets one in every two boxes. Which means for example Pot of Duality would be one in every four boxes. We get rid of the trash secrets while making the good secrets still difficult to attain.

I think Konami has set up a great business plan at the moment and people are buying into it by purchasing up as many boxes of DREV as possible.

[katamura]

"Pay Da Cost to be Da Boss." - Snoop Dogg

pretty much sums up this entire thread.

[BananaHat]

I find it that most of the complainers are people without jobs, mostly adolescents that can't find ways of making extra spending cash or don't know how to save up their allowances or whatnot to buy those said expensive cards.

Its either or man, you either play to have fun get swamped by people with jobs or rich kids or you become a part of that equation that seeks and finds the way to acquire said money cards.

You gotta see it from a business stand point. This is a business and it needs to make as much money as possible as it can. It does not care about who gets their stuff stolen or who can't win. People will still buy packs, attend the tournies and so on.

Thats life bro, you either have it or you don't.

[StrikeCommander000]

I find it that most of the complainers are people without jobs, mostly adolescents that can't find ways of making extra spending cash or don't know how to save up their allowances or whatnot to buy those said expensive cards.

Its either or man, you either play to have fun get swamped by people with jobs or rich kids or you become a part of that equation that seeks and finds the way to acquire said money cards.

You gotta see it from a business stand point. This is a business and it needs to make as much money as possible as it can. It does not care about who gets their stuff stolen or who can't win. People will still buy packs, attend the tournies and so on.

Thats life bro, you either have it or you don't.

No reason for one side to be favored over the other whatsoever. Regardless of business standpoint, that doesn't make the rarity hikes any more fair.

I can't acquire a job due to certain circumstances; because of those I am forced to live off of a mere $600 a month. Konami needs to quit catering to the ******* who always have their noses pointed toward the sky. If they don't they will burn.

In fact, from your post, I'd wager your the one who would make someone trade out their ass for something as simple as a Mirror Force.

Additional Comment:

"Pay Da Cost to be Da Boss." - Snoop Dogg

pretty much sums up this entire thread.

A quote from a man who should be shot on sight anyway.

This isn't the middle ages; Konami shouldn't be acting like King John High and mighty, or treating "certain" players as such with ridiculous rarity hikes.

There is such a thing as "Middle class" even now, and that's what this game used to be about.

[farmerduh2]

i love this post. it is so true.
but the thing is not that konami is ripping us off. but that we buy into the expensive decks and cards. i don't. i stick with anti-meta which can still be pretty expensive but the thing is my deck is never hit by the ban list because its under radar and not enough people run it. so i'm never really out of money. and i sometimes i wonder if yugioh players were more creative what the ban list would be like and how low prices would be for cards. they probably wouldnt be as expensive. we cant blame konami for they are a BUSINESS. and we (the players) are the ones showing them Supply and demand and that we are dumb enough to go out a buy 300$ cards for a chance to be at the top tables.

[Supremeking_Judai]

When I used to play YuGiOh in real life, which was long time ago, I have never spent more than 15 dollars, freakin' 15 dollars. I don't want to pay for card game that much. Well, I just bough one structure deck (spellcaster judgement) and I traded for some cards I found lying on street or I was given (such as Petit Dragon - some people like cute stuff so I traded for them). At one point, I had couple of rare cards (SDY Dark magician, Kazejin, XYZVW Dragon Catapult Cannon, Magical Hats) that I still keep and I am kinda connected to them as they are part of my childhood. Now I play this game only online. I never liked someone who had all the cards in the world, but it really doesn't matter. Someone had Chaos Emperor Dragon and Black Luster Soldier, both in deck (it was Chaos era) but he wasn't smart enough to prevent some of my moves with common cards (Such as Monster Reborn and others). So yeah, I had chance playing with common and some rare cards and collect the deck that may cost much later on. And guess who may want to buy it, those people who spend so much money on this game. But then the cards got expensive, the game died since we are a poor country (Serbia) and the shop got closed. The prices are what is killing this game's soul. They should print common cards that everyone will buy and some rares but let the price be affordable to mid class at least. They lost all the profit they could gain by selling cards by lower prices for 5 years.

To be honest, Konami could care less about small countries like yours. Leaving your country and others like it behind isn't going to hurt profits very much.

[irollonthefloor]

I, myself i make more money with yugioh than i spend, my family aint rich either
and i trade most of my cards, i usually dont buy. I think that solemn warning and POD are as good as they are because their not part of archertypes they are addition but yeah emmersblade is too overpriced, just a recruiter and they should either make less secret rares or they should be easyer to get from boosters

[Sylexus]

I think this article holds some very real truths but I dont think enough so that Konami stops what they're doing, you have to realize that people will want something good, and many WILL pay that price for it (PoD and Warning cough cough), but that's what absolute value in economics is. If anything I'm thankful to be playing in this format which really is one of the best (as your trip down memory lane showed). PoD and Solemn are really the only 2 overpriced cards (and I suppose Grandmaster if you're running sams). It hasn't been that good since IOC when the 2 envoys were the expensive ones. I must say that im hoping next format they limit what they do rarity bump to keep the game pleasurable.

[The_Dark_Monarch]

Well, yesterday I bought 6 boosters of DREV and I pulled a Pot of Duality.

The rest of what I pulled was total crap and went straight into the rubbish bin...do not pass 'go'...do not collect 'points' for being total rubbish..

Trash goes where trash belongs.

Then, I thought about how sad that is....nobody would trade me for an Ultra Thunder Unicorn...2 Rare Dark Desertapirs...a Rare Scrap Beast...a Super Wiseman's Chalice anyway and I don't want them either....

What a waste of trees....a waste of money.....well, it wasn't a waste of money because I pulled a Pot of Duality....

Then I thought...wtf am I going to do with just one Pot of Duality?

Suffice to say, I immediately put it into my Chaos Control deck....ousting a Card Destruction for it (Card D. was only being used as 'tech filler')...

I spent all last night looking at it...wondering if my deck was going to be any better off with just one PoD or should I remove it for maybe a second Smashing Ground until I get three?

Then, I looked on e-bay to see how much PoD's are...and in Australia, they are still going for $130-$140 each....even bids start off at $110 and after 1-2 days, they have got 20 bids on them...

I saw that and went '******* that'...if my family ever found out I spent $130-$140 on a single Yugioh card, I would never hear the end of it....although, I realise I will have to do this eventually and tell nobody about it.

Then, there's a chance that I will buy another PoD and it will get limited in March...so I gotta wait until after then anyway...

Now before smart arses come on here and go 'you are dreaming...PoD will never get hit...' If I don't buy another one, it won't get limited...if I do, it will. It's as simple as that...I found out years ago that the universe revolves around me. :p

So, what do I do now? Pulling that PoD has opened my eyes up to this...the waste....the 'lucky dip'....the chance that pulling another PoD will be like about 1/50 for me and it's cheaper to buy it as a single....that's if I can ever get my head around '$140 = 2 weeks worth of food for me'.

[Sylexus]

Well, yesterday I bought 6 boosters of DREV and I pulled a Pot of Duality.

The rest of what I pulled was total crap and went straight into the rubbish bin...do not pass 'go'...do not collect 'points' for being total rubbish..

Trash goes where trash belongs.

Then, I thought about how sad that is....nobody would trade me for an Ultra Thunder Unicorn...2 Rare Dark Desertapirs...a Rare Scrap Beast...a Super Wiseman's Chalice anyway and I don't want them either....

What a waste of trees....a waste of money.....well, it wasn't a waste of money because I pulled a Pot of Duality....

WTFFFFFF YOU THREW AWAY CARDS?!?!!?!?

People like me trade for that stuff, I see value in every single card printed, the waste of money wasn't you pulling Duality at all, it was you wasting potential of those toher cards, I mean you could have even given them to some kid and made him/her happy, but no, you just throw them away...

[The_Dark_Monarch]

WTFFFFFF YOU THREW AWAY CARDS?!?!!?!?

People like me trade for that stuff, I see value in every single card printed, the waste of money wasn't you pulling Duality at all, it was you wasting potential of those toher cards, I mean you could have even given them to some kid and made him/her happy, but no, you just throw them away...

I live in Australia and things are very different over here.

Unless cards are high-end nobody wants them...not even poor kids or newbies.

People rip off other people blindly over here too...it's an epidemic.

I have tried giving my crap to card stores before....they don't want them....I have 3 binders full of holos & 2 tins full of commons already and my space is extremely limited....so I do not want them...

Sending crap cards overseas costs me $6 a pop and 2 declaration forms I gotta fill out...an ID form and a Customs declaration form..

So yes, I just threw them away...I don't care about the consequences of that...

Other Yugioh players are not even worth my consideration. I have been hurt so much myself, I have become very bitter and resentful of others in this game....and that's why.

[kos.3vil]

Well, yesterday I bought 6 boosters of DREV and I pulled a Pot of Duality.

The rest of what I pulled was total crap and went straight into the rubbish bin...do not pass 'go'...do not collect 'points' for being total rubbish..

Trash goes where trash belongs.

Then, I thought about how sad that is....nobody would trade me for an Ultra Thunder Unicorn...2 Rare Dark Desertapirs...a Rare Scrap Beast...a Super Wiseman's Chalice anyway and I don't want them either....

What a waste of trees....a waste of money.....well, it wasn't a waste of money because I pulled a Pot of Duality....

Then I thought...wtf am I going to do with just one Pot of Duality?

Suffice to say, I immediately put it into my Chaos Control deck....ousting a Card Destruction for it (Card D. was only being used as 'tech filler')...

I spent all last night looking at it...wondering if my deck was going to be any better off with just one PoD or should I remove it for maybe a second Smashing Ground until I get three?

Then, I looked on e-bay to see how much PoD's are...and in Australia, they are still going for $130-$140 each....even bids start off at $110 and after 1-2 days, they have got 20 bids on them...

I saw that and went '******* that'...if my family ever found out I spent $130-$140 on a single Yugioh card, I would never hear the end of it....although, I realise I will have to do this eventually and tell nobody about it.

Then, there's a chance that I will buy another PoD and it will get limited in March...so I gotta wait until after then anyway...

Now before smart arses come on here and go 'you are dreaming...PoD will never get hit...' If I don't buy another one, it won't get limited...if I do, it will. It's as simple as that...I found out years ago that the universe revolves around me. :p

So, what do I do now? Pulling that PoD has opened my eyes up to this...the waste....the 'lucky dip'....the chance that pulling another PoD will be like about 1/50 for me and it's cheaper to buy it as a single....that's if I can ever get my head around '$140 = 2 weeks worth of food for me'.
Man you're the biggest troll ever. I swear I read a post about you being a 40 year old mom with a daughter as well. That's obviously not the case "I saw that and went '******* that'...if my family ever found out I spent $130-$140 on a single Yugioh card, I would never hear the end of it."

[The_Dark_Monarch]

Man you're the biggest troll ever. I swear I read a post about you being a 40 year old mom with a daughter as well. That's obviously not the case "I saw that and went '******* that'...if my family ever found out I spent $130-$140 on a single Yugioh card, I would never hear the end of it."

Believe whatever you will.

My mother is 72 years old and she lives with me. My two daughters don't live with me, they live interstate.

I am 46 years old and just because a person gets older, that doesn't stop other people criticising your lifestyle choices or the way you spend money (if anything, it gets worse...trust me).

My family hates me playing at the best of times...but they tolerate it. They say I am 'too old' for it...even my kids say that.

Now, if my mother or my children ever found out I spent $140 on a single card...they would call me a 'stupid idiot' for weeks...I could totally forget about getting a loan from them ever again...I could totally forget using 'I cannot afford it' as an excuse ever again...

What do you want me to do, tell them all to piss off, mind their own business and never have them even speak to me as a result of that?

Yeah...right!

As I said, if you want to think that I am a teenage troll pretending to be an old woman with a family...go ahead....it's a free internet, I cannot prove anything and you are free to believe whatever you like. Even if you choose to believe that I am a liar. Thanks.

[BananaHat]

Wether you like it or not thats how the ball bounces. Game changing cards will have high prices and people will always want to get them for the sake of saying yeah i got 3 so and so watcha gonna do about it? people like to win and as long as people like to win there will be money cards. Screw diversity, screw being unique thats not what the game is about. The game is all about the benjamins.

Ohh and btw i think you got that right, i had 1 ultra Mirror Force, i traded it for x2 naturia barkion and some other naturia cards.

I can't get a job either but that doesn't mean im gonna lay on my back and let the world screw me over.

[14robinli]

people ***** to much about money. im a youn teen have no job and play this game buy my lunch a couple times a week and other thing on $90 a week and i put together a decent infernity deck in 3-4 months. that may sound like a long time but concidering i only go to locals once a month plus regionals and sneekpeeks when they roll around. stop complaining or stop gaiming.

[katamura]

A quote from a man who should be shot on sight anyway.

This isn't the middle ages; Konami shouldn't be acting like King John High and mighty, or treating "certain" players as such with ridiculous rarity hikes.

There is such a thing as "Middle class" even now, and that's what this game used to be about.

to you, it's a game.
to Konami, it's an extremely profitable business.

if a business isn't trying to make more money, then it should stop operating as a business.

and if u compare yugioh to another game like MTG, MTG is worse.
you have to buy more cards in MTG and throw them out every year because they become unplayable.

hence why Mr. Broadus' comment is very befitting of trading card games in general.

[The_Dark_Monarch]

Wether you like it or not thats how the ball bounces. Game changing cards will have high prices and people will always want to get them for the sake of saying yeah i got 3 so and so watcha gonna do about it? people like to win and as long as people like to win there will be money cards. Screw diversity, screw being unique thats not what the game is about. The game is all about the benjamins.

Ohh and btw i think you got that right, i had 1 ultra Mirror Force, i traded it for x2 naturia barkion and some other naturia cards.

I can't get a job either but that doesn't mean im gonna lay on my back and let the world screw me over.

Too right!

I have over 500 semi-playable holos...they have been sitting in my binder for years and nobody wants them. I mean, I will get a few saying 'If I can have them for free, yeah, I'll take them off your hands'...and those are decent cards like Gold Raizas, Hobby League Dekoichis, Ultra Rare Creature Swaps..etc..

I don't keep total crap...because if I cannot offload those cards, what chance do I have of getting rid of Ultra Thunder Unicorns, Rare Scrap monsters, Super Wiseman's Chalices, Amazoness Heirlooms etc?

I have taken my binder to tourneys and all people ever ask me is 'You got any Warnings, PoD's, Glow-Up Bulbs etc? They are more interested in the contents of my deck than my binder because cards in my deck are like Doomcaliber Knights, Ultra Monster Reborn, Thunder King Rai-Oh's, Solemn Judgment, Super D-Prisons, Super Rykos etc.

Even last month, I did two trades online and neither party shipped their end. Of course, I left negative feedback, but I kissed an Ultimate DDV, Ultimate Vanity's Fiend, a Super Giant Trunade, 3X Royal Decrees, an XX-Saber Hyunlei and some Six Samurai cards goodbye.

I don't know what it's like over in America, but over here, people are not known for being 'unique' or 'original'. You will be very hard pressed to find anybody who doesn't want anything other than 'money cards' to build a Tier 1 deck.

There's only so much of that one can take before they realise that anything else other than 'money cards' are totally worthless and not even worth the cardboard they are printed on.

Sure people may hate me for throwing away 'good cards', but I have absolutely no choice but to do so, or else, they will just be gathering dust with all of the rest of my cards that nobody wants.

One has to draw the line somewhere.

[Sylexus]

People here (or at least in my vicinity) for the most part, whether for budget reasons or personal preferences, prefer to make decks they dont see other people having or decks they like for the archetype, or art, or playstyle. Very few people over here make tier 1 decks just so they can win win win, the ones who do are usually frowned upon as being snobs (though not all of them, some of them are certianly very kind and polite and don't just care about winning). My friends and I collect the cards as a hobby and play the game to have fun.

[StrikeCommander000]

Too right!

I have over 500 semi-playable holos...they have been sitting in my binder for years and nobody wants them. I mean, I will get a few saying 'If I can have them for free, yeah, I'll take them off your hands'...and those are decent cards like Gold Raizas, Hobby League Dekoichis, Ultra Rare Creature Swaps..etc..

I don't keep total crap...because if I cannot offload those cards, what chance do I have of getting rid of Ultra Thunder Unicorns, Rare Scrap monsters, Super Wiseman's Chalices, Amazoness Heirlooms etc?

I have taken my binder to tourneys and all people ever ask me is 'You got any Warnings, PoD's, Glow-Up Bulbs etc? They are more interested in the contents of my deck than my binder because cards in my deck are like Doomcaliber Knights, Ultra Monster Reborn, Thunder King Rai-Oh's, Solemn Judgment, Super D-Prisons, Super Rykos etc.

Even last month, I did two trades online and neither party shipped their end. Of course, I left negative feedback, but I kissed an Ultimate DDV, Ultimate Vanity's Fiend, a Super Giant Trunade, 3X Royal Decrees, an XX-Saber Hyunlei and some Six Samurai cards goodbye.

I don't know what it's like over in America, but over here, people are not known for being 'unique' or 'original'. You will be very hard pressed to find anybody who doesn't want anything other than 'money cards' to build a Tier 1 deck.

There's only so much of that one can take before they realise that anything else other than 'money cards' are totally worthless and not even worth the cardboard they are printed on.

Sure people may hate me for throwing away 'good cards', but I have absolutely no choice but to do so, or else, they will just be gathering dust with all of the rest of my cards that nobody wants.

One has to draw the line somewhere.

This is EXACTLY what I'm getting at. To a point, I can understand 'chase cards', and the need for friendly competition. However, when it gets to a point that a binder loaded w/decent to good holos is overlooked due to a single $130 card, and you're deemed as 'garbage' because you have better things to spend your money on than cardboard, that is when the line has been crossed.

I'd love nothing more than to watch Konami's ivory tower come tumbling down, and for their greed and general favor of the OCG to bite them in the ass.

[borgisme5]

Or, instead of buying everything when they are hot and new and only from one source, just do what I do and wait for that reprint, even if it takes years, and borrow the card from your lame friends that wasted a few hundred dollars ona few cards ;)

[Vanguard Veteran]

Just got back into the game and I have 2 tier one decks and I'm slowly building up my trade. Scrubs always be complaining.

[Noobazn88]

This is EXACTLY what I'm getting at. To a point, I can understand 'chase cards', and the need for friendly competition. However, when it gets to a point that a binder loaded w/decent to good holos is overlooked due to a single $130 card, and you're deemed as 'garbage' because you have better things to spend your money on than cardboard, that is when the line has been crossed.

I'd love nothing more than to watch Konami's ivory tower come tumbling down, and for their greed and general favor of the OCG to bite them in the ass.

If you're so mad at konami, then sell all your cards, stop playing, be done with it and stop whining like a 3 year old...

[echarit]

U dont have to pay full price for the cards just buy packs and eventually u will pull them.

this is when you pay about 3 times more.......

[megacloud]

Its a hobby, its not meant to be cheap that does not mean if you love the game dump huge amounts of money its all about managing your money, every time I buy something not just for yugioh but everything I ask myself.

1. How long will this last me
2. How happy will this make me
3. Is it worth it

then I put these 3 things on a list of everything I feel like buying and make sure I get something I will be glad to have, I have spent hundreds of dollars on online games weather its by micro-transactions or membership for the many MMO's I play, do I regret it? never.

I can't really say this game is too expensive as oppose to other things you can do, really I would like the game to be cheaper because then I can get other things I like instead, but I cannot agree with the statement that this game will die, if this game is getting the recognition it is getting, at the rate it is getting it will not die in 5 years.

Something is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay, and of course the game will get more expensive as time progresses, everything does a dollar does not go as far as it use to, just look at gas, food, housing, everything, even a $.99 cheeseburger at mcdonalds is $1.50 now (not counting taxes) and that should be taken into consideration.

I may write more later right now I am kind of busy, so sorry for any misspellings, grammer, etc. Ill hop back in this thread from time to time because it is a good one, nice points made, I like it.

[PKpwnage]

The best cards should have the highest rarities. Everything else is inherently silly.

[treeborn for game?]

It would be difficult to word these feelings better myself.

[StrikeCommander000]

The best cards should have the highest rarities. Everything else is inherently silly.

People like you make this game as ****ty as it currently is. All cards should be equally available to everyone, not only to those w/the deepest pockets.

[Sazandora]

tcg is a ******ed money game pot of duality proves that.

i prefer ocg.

[123wert50]

Yeah, TCG is wayyy too much!

[PKpwnage]

People like you make this game as ****ty as it currently is. All cards should be equally available to everyone, not only to those w/the deepest pockets.
All cards (saving prizes) ARE equally available to everyone. The players with all the money cards simply decided to go after them.

[fortuneB]

Im the one who never like buying high expensive cards. I dont care my deck can not be competitive as other deck because I lack strong and expensive cards. However, I find it is a challenge for me to defeat those competitive deck with my crappy cheap not competitive deck.

I dont care I lose too much, but hey ,when I able defeat a $250++ deck with my less than $100 deck even once or twice, that feeling is so great, man.

[bioober]

People like you make this game as ****ty as it currently is. All cards should be equally available to everyone, not only to those w/the deepest pockets.

So you're saying those YCS Prize cards should be available to everyone the moment they are available to the public?

Additional Comment:

Im the one who never like buying high expensive cards. I dont care my deck can not be competitive as other deck because I lack strong and expensive cards. However, I find it is a challenge for me to defeat those competitive deck with my crappy cheap not competitive deck.

I dont care I lose too much, but hey ,when I able defeat a $250++ deck with my less than $100 deck even once or twice, that feeling is so great, man.

Well technically I don't believe there's much of a gap between expensive decks and cheaper decks. Look at machinas, you can make the deck for 30$ leaving the staples aside. And you can beat multiple top tiered decks with it.

[Drunkasaurus]

When PoD came out, I stopped playing. The game is fun, but when a staple like that comes out for such a high price, it's akin to Blizzard arbitrarily raising monthly membership for WoW. It's disrespectful to the player base, and in my case it actually discouraged play. From a business perspective, alienating the casual player base (in most cases the greatest buyer and propagator of the game) is foolish and will result in short term gains but long term losses.

If staple exceed monsters receive the same treatment as PoD, the player base will shrink until Konami cannibalizes the company they bought from Upper Deck to liquidation.

[bioober]

When PoD came out, I stopped playing. The game is fun, but when a staple like that comes out for such a high price, it's akin to Blizzard arbitrarily raising monthly membership for WoW. It's disrespectful to the player base, and in my case it actually discouraged play. From a business perspective, alienating the casual player base (in most cases the greatest buyer and propagator of the game) is foolish and will result in short term gains but long term losses.

If staple exceed monsters receive the same treatment as PoD, the player base will shrink until Konami cannibalizes the company they bought from Upper Deck to liquidation.

I don't treat PoD as staples, I have multiple but I have yet to use it in any of my decks. IMO it's not that great unless you're running antimeta.
I don't get your 2nd statement. Is it in reference to the new Exceed Monsters? Or if Staples exceed monsters in value?

[Drunkasaurus]

Exceed monsters will change the game, and much like synchros, everyone will want a select few for the extra deck. If Konami continues to abuse the demand of their player base, they will lose future profit prospects.

It is bad for the long-term game.

If Pot of Duality weren't a staple it wouldn't have a $100+ price tag.

[bioober]

Exceed monsters will change the game, and much like synchros, everyone will want a select few for the extra deck. If Konami continues to abuse the demand of their player base, they will lose future profit prospects.

It is bad for the long-term game.

If Pot of Duality weren't a staple it wouldn't have a $100+ price tag.

I believe Exceed Monsters will change the game as well, but I'm pretty sure Konami will release tins to go along with those Exceed Monsters. Yugioh's main source of profit is children who has parents that buys this stuff for them. So I highly doubt cards like PoD would affect the children's thoughts on playing.
And your statement about PoD having $100+ doesn't mean it's a staple, it just means many players are looking for the card and are willing to buy it for a high price.

[fortuneB]

Pot of Duality is not staple. High price doesnt make it a staple. Just like Vennominaga I bought has insane price doesnt make her as a staple

[PKpwnage]

Exceed monsters will change the game, and much like synchros, everyone will want a select few for the extra deck. If Konami continues to abuse the demand of their player base, they will lose future profit prospects.

It is bad for the long-term game.

If Pot of Duality weren't a staple it wouldn't have a $100+ price tag.
Excuse me, but did you just say Konami following business practices would ultimately kill the game?

Duality does indeed encourage gameplay. It's the people butthurt about the price tag that discourage it.

[VinylTurn]

Cards like Duality, warning, what judgment used to be, etc are the big issues imo. A staple shouldn't go for alot. That said, emmersblade is fine because it is for a specific deck. If you don't wanna pay that money, don't make the deck. Same with ls a year ago etc. Cards that can and should be used in any deck should not go for more than 40 max imo...

[RagingArkie]

Agreed. I think spending $100 or so on a card is simply ridiculous... I mean for ONE card? Decks are getting more and more expensive, around $500 is just being wasted on cardboard pieces of paper. I like this game and all, but it really needs to be less expensive! Konami is becoming way too corrupt and making this game more about money and less about fun.

[bioober]

Agreed. I think spending $100 or so on a card is simply ridiculous... I mean for ONE card? Decks are getting more and more expensive, around $500 is just being wasted on cardboard pieces of paper. I like this game and all, but it really needs to be less expensive! Konami is becoming way too corrupt and making this game more about money and less about fun.

What are you talking about?, Konami couldn't care less about the second hand market. The 100$ is placed on the cards out of demand, not konami. And if you don't like paying for expensive cards then either build a deck that doesn't have expensive cards or quit the game.

[RagingArkie]

But Konami is in control of that demand. And I did build a deck that doesn't have expensive cards, but still. I'd like to have cards like Pot of Duality without having to shell out ~$70.

[bioober]

But Konami is in control of that demand. And I did build a deck that doesn't have expensive cards, but still. I'd like to have cards like Pot of Duality without having to shell out ~$70.

Konami can only control demand to a limit. Yes PoD is over 50$ cause it's a secret rare but there are many other trashy secret rares just as hard to get as PoD but doesn't cost as nearly as much as PoD. And reversing the logic addition Six samurai Kizan is only a super rare, which is the lowest rarity next to rare and commons but costs more than 20$.
Demand is created by the players, not Konami.

[RagingArkie]

So what if Pot of Duality and Warning were commons? Do you still think they'd cost a lot of money? What Konami's doing is making good cards more rare.

[guardbear]

So what if Pot of Duality and Warning were commons? Do you still think they'd cost a lot of money? What Konami's doing is making good cards more rare.

That's kinda the business model for every type of trading/collectable card game out there. If all the good cards were commons, and the rares were garbage... there wouldn't really be any reason to trade because everyone would have all the good cards. At the end of the day... if konami doesn't sell packs, we stop getting new sets.

Did it suck before... yeah... getting 3 dark armeds in the days of dad return was not fun. Has it gotten better, hell yes. Right now we are complaining about a 45-50 dollar card and a 90 dollar card. Back then, we had 250 dollar cards... not really seeing a huge problem right now.

[bioober]

So what if Pot of Duality and Warning were commons? Do you still think they'd cost a lot of money? What Konami's doing is making good cards more rare.

Then what about the other 90% of the really rare cards that are downright terrible but still a card of high rarity? Just because 10% or less of the rare cards are useful and therefore expensive doesn't mean konami is trying to control the second hand market for them since it doesn't affect them at all.

[ChairmanKaga]

What are you talking about?, Konami couldn't care less about the second hand market. The 100$ is placed on the cards out of demand, not konami. And if you don't like paying for expensive cards then either build a deck that doesn't have expensive cards or quit the game.

Surprisingly you can dislike how konami is pandering to the secondary market while still playing the game. Further you can actually still afford and buy expensive cards while still thinking its some of the dumbest ****.
Heaven forbid you have a different opinion on how the game should be.

Konami directly controls the Supply, and they also in a way create the demand too. They control everything, yeah its some "vendor" selling those cards on ebay or wherever else but they control just how many of those cards get printed, how rare they are, and they also design the cards themselves.
If you don't think for a minute that konami didn't realize what they were doing when they changed Pot of Duality to a secret you are either ignorant or lying to yourself, maybe delusional.
Further that which konami givith, so shall they takith away. CCV, DSF, and every other card worthy of having an acronym will eventually get put on the list or simply replaced by a newer shinier card. They can also reprint cards at any time of there choosing, they could announce tommorow that Starter Deck 2011 has duality as a common reprint in it like how they used to have Pot of Greed in so many structures.

Yugioh is not the stock market no matter what people want to think, since at the end of the day they are just cards. Those stocks/commodities/whatever you are buying and selling from brokers? This have real value, and real world importance. Yeah a company can go under, crops can fall to blizzards, and demand for goods could suddenly plummet but you still own a fraction of that company on hard times, you still have those commodities, and similar things.
Its still very much tangible even if you never see it.
Not only this, very little of there values are controlled by some master corporation that distributes and controls all. Sure if you buy into some conspiracy theories its all controlled by some hive mind or something but you get what I mean.

Not only this yugioh values are very arbitrary. A great staple ultra from one set might sell for 30 or so while from another set which had fewer good cards in the set would increase the price up to 50 or more.
This is because prices are not totally dictated by Supply and demand, but also by resellers setting prices so they can make profit off buying cases and trying to resell it.


As a person who can afford just about whatever deck I wanted without any real issues. I also want a cheaper game simply because it makes the game more accessible, and it increases the amount of fully built/well constructed decks I can play against. I personally don't find it fun playing against a deck that is obviously subpar because "I can't afford scrap dragons and warnings atm so I have to work with this" any win you get against such a deck is cheapened.
Not only this I want to be able to get friends/nephews/cousins/etc into the game and not have to say "well you can make this cheaper deck but really if you want to do well prepare to shell out 400+ on staples atleast". Theres alot of other things you can do for that sort of money aside from getting some cards that will almost certainly lose there value within afew years.

[LFN!]

Man, people are taking this hype game a bit too seriously lol.

Sold out on Troll & Toad:
Beast King Barbaros
Beast King Barbaros Ur
Forbidden Chalice
Skill Drain (Dark Crisis rare)
Ancient Gear Gadjiltron Dragon

Barbaros Ur is sold out??! LOL

[PKpwnage]

Agreed. I think spending $100 or so on a card is simply ridiculous... I mean for ONE card? Decks are getting more and more expensive, around $500 is just being wasted on cardboard pieces of paper. I like this game and all, but it really needs to be less expensive! Konami is becoming way too corrupt and making this game more about money and less about fun.
Konami are the corrupt ones? Not for the reason you're stating. They're not the ones charging a hundred-plus for Duality. They weren't the ones charging 250-300 for Dark Armed, nor 300 for Crush. Players did - because other players were willing to shell it out.

But Konami is in control of that demand. And I did build a deck that doesn't have expensive cards, but still. I'd like to have cards like Pot of Duality without having to shell out ~$70.
Wait a couple years. Until then, deal with it.

Then what about the other 90% of the really rare cards that are downright terrible but still a card of high rarity?
That's Konami throwing people like you a bone - one less high-rarity slot going to an actual good card.

[ChairmanKaga]

I'd love to see konami step up and allow the purchase of singles direct from them for a fixed rate, essentially putting a price cap on a cards value.
They make more money directly and they enforce a price limit at the same time effectively.

An example would be
Any secret, single, $30
Any ultra, single, $20
Any super or lower, single, $10
Only available for main set cards, and don't sell ultimates or ghosts so there are cards from packs that are special and collectible.

Thats purely an example, and the figures could be whatever though it keeps the prices on cards from going crazy.

[PetitMoth]

I don't know. I feel like everyone wants to be a person who tops at tournaments, so they need to be equipped with the best stuff because winning is where the gratification comes out of the game. I think cards like PoD, while incredibly useful, can be left out without too much detriment to the player's game. However, it is so focused by whatever the current meta is that anyone who wants to be a tournament winner needs to pack these so called money cards.

It's not just rarity, though. Try getting a Dark Bribe even common, or heck, Book of Moon is printed so many times in so many starter decks, but you won't find one in a common pile at your local hobby shop.

The point is, we the players/collectors are not blameless. If it were just a matter of Konami releasing things on rarity, then certain starter deck cards wouldn't be worth half the price of the starter deck.

The other thing is that, like, making certain powerful cards hard to get used to encourage me to use the common crap I had to cobble together an awesome deck. Doing so teaches you what I think is the most fantastic part of the game, which is coming up with really wicked stuff out of what you have, because, in the end, when you win a match with your really dull, common deck, you'll know it was your work and your resources that managed that.

Of course, that's just getting into my personal outlook on the game.

[bioober]

Surprisingly you can dislike how konami is pandering to the secondary market while still playing the game. Further you can actually still afford and buy expensive cards while still thinking its some of the dumbest ****.
...
some cards that will almost certainly lose there value within afew years.

Supply does not control demand itself, lowering quantity supplied only lowers the quantity demanded on anything. That is the law of Supply and demand.
And also, stocks are not tangible at all, it is nothing, you either lose or gain money out of nothing. Yugioh though not as extreme as a real stock market, can be compared to this. Cards go up and down in price, depending on people (Over hyping or under hyping) and soon the price reaches equilibrium.

I myself cannot afford everything, but I try something else. And guess what, I pwn nearly all the top tier decks out there.

[StrikeCommander000]

So you're saying those YCS Prize cards should be available to everyone the moment they are available to the public?


No. I can understand prize cards being rewarded to players w/great skill (the only exception being CCV). However, generic staples like Warning/Duality shouldn't have price tags as high as $70-$100+. For Konami to make cards like that such a high rarity only shows how greedy they are, and reinforces the fact that they need a good ass-kicking.

Granted, after much hard work, I finally found someone who offered me a "sane" price for PoDs (well, as sane as card prices get in this game, anyway). However, having such sought-after cards also makes me uneasy when I go to big tournaments; it makes me feel like I have a target on my back, even though I do my damnedest to keep an eye on my stuff.

Konami needs to realize just how far their corrupt practices have seeped into the game, all the way down to the player base.

Additional Comment:

I'd love to see konami step up and allow the purchase of singles direct from them for a fixed rate, essentially putting a price cap on a cards value.
They make more money directly and they enforce a price limit at the same time effectively.

An example would be
Any secret, single, $30
Any ultra, single, $20
Any super or lower, single, $10
Only available for main set cards, and don't sell ultimates or ghosts so there are cards from packs that are special and collectible.

Thats purely an example, and the figures could be whatever though it keeps the prices on cards from going crazy.

Best idea I've heard in a long damn time.

[Dude_01]

there are things out there called "jobs" that you might want to look into.

thats how i got all my worthless shiny cardboard in the first place, maybe you want to look into it.

[bioober]

No. I can understand prize cards being rewarded to players w/great skill (the only exception being CCV). However, generic staples like Warning/Duality shouldn't have price tags as high as $70-$100+. For Konami to make cards like that such a high rarity only shows how greedy they are, and reinforces the fact that they need a good ass-kicking.


The players place these high prices on these staples. Not Konami. Konami does not make any money off the second hand market, therefore you cannot say they are greedy for producing cards that people would want to buy at 70$.

[Sazandora]

lol 3 ocg JDS are on ebay for $16 while 1 tcg is worth hell load more.

[PKpwnage]

I'd love to see konami step up and allow the purchase of singles direct from them for a fixed rate, essentially putting a price cap on a cards value.
They make more money directly and they enforce a price limit at the same time effectively.

An example would be
Any secret, single, $30
Any ultra, single, $20
Any super or lower, single, $10
Only available for main set cards, and don't sell ultimates or ghosts so there are cards from packs that are special and collectible.

Thats purely an example, and the figures could be whatever though it keeps the prices on cards from going crazy.
Yay for instantly and permanently killing pack sales?

lol 3 ocg JDS are on ebay for $16 while 1 tcg is worth hell load more.This comparison is relevant...why? There are so many differences between the TCG and OCG, both physically and culturally.

[mpeis007]

I'd love to see konami step up and allow the purchase of singles direct from them for a fixed rate, essentially putting a price cap on a cards value.
They make more money directly and they enforce a price limit at the same time effectively.

An example would be
Any secret, single, $30
Any ultra, single, $20
Any super or lower, single, $10
Only available for main set cards, and don't sell ultimates or ghosts so there are cards from packs that are special and collectible.

Thats purely an example, and the figures could be whatever though it keeps the prices on cards from going crazy.They would lose booster sales that way though , I would not buy a case of STOR , if Kizan costed 10 and shien 20( meaning I should sell for less in order to be competitive) , just for the chance of opening 1-2 Odin ghost rares( thats the average to be opened) and 12 ultimate rares.

Additional Comment:

The players place these high prices on these staples. Not Konami. Konami does not make any money off the second hand market, therefore you cannot say they are greedy for producing cards that people would want to buy at 70$.

While that holds true , they do make a ****load of moey when releaseing buster sets like IOC, PTDN and lately DREV & STOR , because that makes sure they sell out all their stock . They sure as hell did not sell the same amount of cards from CDIP as they did with IOC and they did not sell the same amount of boosters from DREV/STOR as they did with STBL , other sites would not try to get rid of STBL for even 50$ a box ...So I can and will say that they profit from producing cards that people would want to buy at 70$ .

[Trixie Lulamoon]

The players place these high prices on these staples. Not Konami. Konami does not make any money off the second hand market, therefore you cannot say they are greedy for producing cards that people would want to buy at 70$.

I've heard you spout off this bull**** lie enough times, I've become sick of it.

Konami DOES profit off certain cards being next to impossible to attain, by virtue of the fact that vendors have to buy BOXES to open to get the SINGLES to SELL.

Why do you think Storm of Ragnarok sold so fast? Lots of money cards = People buy lots of Boxes = Money for Konami.

If Pot of Duality were a common, everyone would stop buying boxes MUCH sooner, because they'd have their playsets of Duality after the first box.

This is an extremely simple concept to grasp.

[PKpwnage]

I've heard you spout off this bull**** lie enough times, I've become sick of it.

Konami DOES profit off certain cards being next to impossible to attain, by virtue of the fact that vendors have to buy BOXES to open to get the SINGLES to SELL.

Why do you think Storm of Ragnarok sold so fast? Lots of money cards = People buy lots of Boxes = Money for Konami.

If Pot of Duality were a common, everyone would stop buying boxes MUCH sooner, because they'd have their playsets of Duality after the first box.

This is an extremely simple concept to grasp.
So...they're making money off the primary market.

Protip: Before you rant, make sure you're not wrong.

[Trixie Lulamoon]

So...they're making money off the primary market.

Protip: Before you rant, make sure you're not wrong.

Protip: Actually read the argument of the person quoted.

Do read some of his posts. I won't insult your intelligence by breaking it down for you further.

I just quoted his most recent remark since I assumed Pojo could read things and relate concepts outside of a single box of dialog. Seems I was wrong.

[TeamAPS/GP611]

I agree, though Konami did go through a year and a half or so of nice reprints.

[AxelSlam]

yeah this is deff something i've had a concern with.
but i'll post something later

[Yeshimon]

But you see, theres a huge problem.
Because even super rares can go for 50,60,80 dollars.
What can be done about that ?

[Noobazn88]

if you guys think its too expensive why not sell your cards quit the game and stop whining?

or if you want to keep playing then stop being poor and a crybaby and get a job.

[AxelSlam]

it's not like i'm poor or anything and i have a job. i just think it's ******ed to spend 100+ (PoD) for one card when i could buy better things (or pay my bills)

[Trixie Lulamoon]

if you guys think its too expensive why not sell your cards quit the game and stop whining?

or if you want to keep playing then stop being poor and a crybaby and get a job.

Why don't you just stop trying to troll, because you're honestly quite terrible at it.

Leave the trolling to the professionals.

[crystalight]

Why don't you just stop trying to troll, because you're honestly quite terrible at it.

Leave the trolling to the professionals.

Yeah like me, and whilst i'm in this thread TG hyper Liberian needs a re print AS SOON AS IT COMES OUT. No one in the TCG but the states can get one! Not good at all...

[Stormweaver]

Heh, only read the first post.

Kinda makes you wonder what'll happen if things continue like this. Or for those of you without imaginations, if you ignore the apocalyptic explosion, it'll resemble something like 5d's - konami lead to cards getting more and more expensive, people sell everything they have and have to live in burned out buildings in order to afford a half decent deck (but rich people continue to pwn while living in futurey abodes) and then konami expands to the motorbike industry, and makes it so the poor people can't even play the card game they ruined themselves for without buying a ******* motorbike.

...so yeah. I just found it funny.

[Sazandora]

Schittz gone too far when in order to play a anti-meta deck you have to run 3 pods and 2 warnings.

[undead2033]

I totaly agree with the article. But i have a very big question. WHAT CAN WE DO? How can we change that? If change is not the purpose of this article then what is it? Almost everybody who plays budget knows that stuff. Well, what he can do?

[ccayco]

I totaly agree with the article. But i have a very big question. WHAT CAN WE DO? How can we change that? If change is not the purpose of this article then what is it? Almost everybody who plays budget knows that stuff. Well, what he can do?

you cant rly do anything

[undead2033]

you cant rly do anything

i know...and that's why i ask what the thread is about....if we cant do anything then why this man go and write alll of this? whats the point? what he says is true but whats the point if we can do anything?

[ccayco]

i know...and that's why i ask what the thread is about....if we cant do anything then why this man go and write alll of this? whats the point? what he says is true but whats the point if we can do anything?

Everything on Pojo is kind of pointless, if you think about it. We just like to discuss and share thoughts.

[ArchAvalon]

While the Money game is getting WAY to outtahand....Atleast its not as bad as it once was...

In its prime, TeleDAD was $1000+ when you consider the Extra Deck, Malicious, DDraw, Allure of Darkness, E-Teleport, Judgment, DAD, Dark Grephers, and everything else....

The last Winning Deck (Six Samurai) is only around $500. After that, all of the other Tier 1 Decks aren't much more expensive than that. Almost every Tier 1 Deck cost minmum $100 (for Warnings, Reborn, and 2 MST). After that...a few others add about $280 (for 3 Pot of Duality).

the most expensive deck right now is most likely any deck that plays 3 PoD with 2 Warning. That is a $350-400 price tag with only 5 cards. However, after that, most decks will only cost another $100 or so more.

[undead2033]

While the Money game is getting WAY to outtahand....Atleast its not as bad as it once was...

In its prime, TeleDAD was $1000+ when you consider the Extra Deck, Malicious, DDraw, Allure of Darkness, E-Teleport, Judgment, DAD, Dark Grephers, and everything else....

The last Winning Deck (Six Samurai) is only around $500. After that, all of the other Tier 1 Decks aren't much more expensive than that. Almost every Tier 1 Deck cost minmum $100 (for Warnings, Reborn, and 2 MST). After that...a few others add about $280 (for 3 Pot of Duality).

the most expensive deck right now is most likely any deck that plays 3 PoD with 2 Warning. That is a $350-400 price tag with only 5 cards. However, after that, most decks will only cost another $100 or so more.


Yeah make a competitive anti-meta or an x-saber or an infernity w/o duality and warning with 100$ and you're god. its not that simple. only the emmersblades/doomcals/barriers are as expensive as solemn warnings and more...if you want to build a perfect deck with extra and main full competitive you'll need around 800-1000$ (3 dualities, 2 warnings, other expensive cards your deck has, synchros, side deck etc) 3 dualities are not for every single deck but im talking for the majority.

[Maou]

I think I already posted in this thread a long while ago, but im going to post some more updated thoughts.

If you want to play a deck that needs 3 Pot of Duality 2 Solemn Warning, then sure, this is a money game to you.

All decks will need two Solemn Warning more than likely. I'll just say that is an $80 price tag there.

Now I can't say how much the rest will cost, but I'll go along with my current deck I just bought out as an example, Karakuri KPT.

All of the playable Synchros (3 Bureido, 2 Burei) in total costs $40. All Karakuri in the main are commons. The non-Karakuri's being the Machina (3 Gearframe, 3 Fortress) is only about a buck each, and the Plants are the expensive side but really not that bad as well (2 Lonefire, Dandy, Spore, Glow-Up Bulb) and in total costs an approximate $45.

That's about $91 for the core of a deck. That is really nothing. You add the two Warning that is $171. Add two random Pot of Duality and then it's $371. Anyone notice anything?

The money game comes from Pot of Duality and Solemn Warning alone. Pot of Duality however, even in this deck, is not even needed at all. If you want to play a deck that requires those cards, know that it will not play to it's full potential unless you invest.

Pay attention to what you invest in as they all do have the potential to open options to other decks. The above example means you have what you need for Plant and Machina Gadget's core. Also I'm pretty sure if someone with no job that doesn't come from a wealthy family like myself can find the way to have these cards, anyone can.

Also it is a good thing to point out even if you are investing in these money cards, they almost ALWAYS have a slot in all decks you will build in the future making it worth it in the long run.

[bitbna]

If you really hate spending what you consider too much money on a top tier deck, then you have 3 options:

1. Play a cheaper competitive deck (Monarchs, Plants weren't too bad, maybe Skill Drain)

2. Don't play competitively, because if you aren't willing to pay for cards then you simply aren't committed enough to play at the highest level.
Success and Price, they obviously correlate. Saying you don't want to spend 100$ on a deck, but you still want to top a SJC is like saying you plan on having your cake and eating it too.

3. Don't play? If you HAVE to win, but you don't want to commit financially, then you really shouldn't play, or you should work on your overly competitive attitude.

[darknut79]

Well, I cannot afford Pots OR Warnings, I considered myself lucky just to get a Gold-Rare Solemn Judgement.
Therefore, I agree completely with the OP's post.

HOWEVER- Budget decks DO NOT suck- I almost topped a regionals with a fifty dollar empty jar mill (5/3) And I constantly win at my locals with decks such as my new favorite, my 20 dollar chain burn.

However (Once again) X-Sabers? Really? 400 dollars for a good MAIN DECK (Not including synchros) is asking WAY too much.

For those of you laughing at the OP for ranting, think, too, about this:
You consciously chose buying a stack of cardboard over buying a used car.

Additional Comment:

I read this whole thing and i can honestly say i agree with you on all points i hate when i see a common in japan get reprinted as a dam n secret here i mean HONESTLY WHO THE HELL IS USING NATURIA PINEAPPLE- its garbage yet still it going for over $50 pot of duality a card anyone can use is bumped from a common or whatever it was in japan to damn secret rare going for 100-130 dollars you def won't see me spending that much on paper board my limit is 30 bucks and 30 bucks alone.......100-130 can by me more clothes, gas, a date with my girl, chill money with friends, money for the club,food, etc,and those are of higher priority then PAPER BOARD. Also i been saying this to my friends for some time now what happens when this game ends.....( honestly i see this game ending in the next 5 years and if not then so be it but where will i be will i still be playing yugioh maybe yes maybe not................Has anyone noticed that the most popular yugi-tubers don't even post videos like they use to and some have even gave there channels away, you know why its because slowly but surely this game is nearing its end and the big price tags have helped it get there on top of that people are growing up aside from keeping a small deck here and their to play when they have free time people are doing other stuff unless there just really a uber-nerd who has no friends and work a part time at their locaL FAST FOOD PLACE to fuel their card addiction

'Tis true, aye. I think Ryko was originally a common, and Pot of Duality was originally a super... Pisses me off =(

[AxelSlam]

In Japan, DaD was a rare, and Solemn Judgment was reprinted in multiple starter decks, same with CCV.
lol. ggs.
this obv. pertaining to the Tele-DaD $1000 deck

[Noobazn88]

Well, I cannot afford Pots OR Warnings, I considered myself lucky just to get a Gold-Rare Solemn Judgement.
Therefore, I agree completely with the OP's post.

HOWEVER- Budget decks DO NOT suck- I almost topped a regionals with a fifty dollar empty jar mill (5/3) And I constantly win at my locals with decks such as my new favorite, my 20 dollar chain burn.

However (Once again) X-Sabers? Really? 400 dollars for a good MAIN DECK (Not including synchros) is asking WAY too much.

For those of you laughing at the OP for ranting, think, too, about this:
You consciously chose buying a stack of cardboard over buying a used car.

Additional Comment:



'Tis true, aye. I think Ryko was originally a common, and Pot of Duality was originally a super... Pisses me off =(

umm yea i am buying cardboard which is part of a game...just like how i would buy a ps3 game over a car? do you know why? Cause i already have a NEW car. LOL WHAT NOW? Main point is that i can afford it. so stop whining.

[SkyBlueEyed]

Noobazn88, stop being an arsehole.

[Noobazn88]

...he is the 1 belitting the people who "chose buying a stack of cardboard over buying a used car"...tell him.

[Stormweaver]

Noobazn88, stop being an arsehole.

This.

The thing that gets me is when the stack of cardboard costs more than the motorbike I need to play the game on. 'tis a crazy card game we play. Crazy I tells you.

[Trixie Lulamoon]

umm yea i am buying cardboard which is part of a game...just like how i would buy a ps3 game over a car? do you know why? Cause i already have a NEW car. LOL WHAT NOW? Main point is that i can afford it. so stop whining.

Not everyone is still attached to Mommy's nipple, Noobazn.

Some of us have other priorities.

[bitbna]

Tis true, aye. I think Ryko was originally a common, and Pot of Duality was originally a super... Pisses me off =(

Konami rarity bumps the chase cards to ultra/secret.

UDE bumped the rarities of chase cards to ultra/secret.

If you want to succeed at the game, you have to commit the cash. Otherwise, just have fun with it, or simply don't play.

umm yea i am buying cardboard which is part of a game...just like how i would buy a ps3 game over a car? do you know why? Cause i already have a NEW car. LOL WHAT NOW? Main point is that i can afford it. so stop whining.


Everybody is getting on this guy ^ because he is telling people to stop whining.

Complaining about this will do nothing, get more money, buy less cards, buy less expensive cards, or don't play. Most importantly, STOP COMPLAINING, it does nothing.

If anything, you guys should be praising Konami for starting to gradually make the game cheaper.

1000$ Tele/Return DAD > 500$~ deck of your choice

[darknut79]

umm yea i am buying cardboard which is part of a game...just like how i would buy a ps3 game over a car? do you know why? Cause i already have a NEW car. LOL WHAT NOW? Main point is that i can afford it. so stop whining.

Please phrase your comment in proper English, I don't speak Troll-ese.

[Trixie Lulamoon]

Everybody is getting on this guy ^ because he is telling people to stop whining.

Complaining about this will do nothing, get more money, buy less cards, buy less expensive cards, or don't play. Most importantly, STOP COMPLAINING, it does nothing.

If anything, you guys should be praising Konami for starting to gradually make the game cheaper.

1000$ Tele/Return DAD > 500$~ deck of your choice

I did praise Konami for making the game cheaper.

Then they released Pot of Duality as Secret and Solemn Warning as Ultra and essentially made this a money game yet again.

FACT: Not all of us are still attached to mommy's nipple, so our money goes to other things.

[Noobazn88]

lol...thats fine if your not attached to mommy's nipple. neither am i. if you don't like the game because its too expensive why don't you do something about it. and sell your cards and quit the game instead of just crybabying on pojos hoping some messiah is going to magically make every card you want a common...lol whiners and crybabys on pojo.

[Trixie Lulamoon]

lol...thats fine if your not attached to mommy's nipple. neither am i. if you don't like the game because its too expensive why don't you do something about it. and sell your cards and quit the game instead of just crybabying on pojos hoping some messiah is going to magically make every card you want a common...lol whiners and crybabys on pojo.

I don't think one saying that 100$ is too damn much for cardboard equates to whining and crying on Pojo and hoping some Messiah will make every card common.

Pretty much every person ever agrees that TCG getting OCG's pack and rarity layouts unchanged would be, like, God-like.

We're talking about bounds of reason here, but you obviously don't want to discuss anything with reason.

[StrikeCommander000]

I don't think one saying that 100$ is too damn much for cardboard equates to whining and crying on Pojo and hoping some Messiah will make every card common.

Pretty much every person ever agrees that TCG getting OCG's pack and rarity layouts unchanged would be, like, God-like.

We're talking about bounds of reason here, but you obviously don't want to discuss anything with reason.

No, because he is one of those "fortunate" souls who has Mommy and Daddy's money to solve all his problems.

[Vanguard Veteran]

1. Playing monarchs,deck cost less then $180 with complete extra deck and side
2. Its now tier 1 this format with good match ups against the other tier 1 decks
3.??????
4. Profit

[Noobazn88]

No, because he is one of those "fortunate" souls who has Mommy and Daddy's money to solve all his problems.

lol...do you whine about how expensive an aston martin is?

[AxelSlam]

lol...do you whine about how expensive an aston martin is?

i would if i needed to run 3 in a child's card game

[Noobazn88]

lol you're just a big whiner...you don't see someone who can't afford the aston martin when he buys a hyundai...You can afford Treeborn Frog and make a competitive deck...no need to whine about the expensive cards.

[AxelSlam]

noobazn
you used the word "whine" or some variation of the word "whine" in 5 of your last 6 posts.
please use other words, or provide a better argument. or stop posting all together.
thanks
:]

[Noobazn88]

lol you can't find anything wrong with my argument so you nitpick my vocabulary. Thanks for the win!

[LFN!]

If playing triple Dualities and double Warnings is out of your budget, then don't play the decks that absolutely NEED those cards.

Like Lord Nekron brought up, Frog Monarchs are a viable competitive deck, and it's relatively cheap as well. You should be able to snag caius and raizas (assuming you're not gunning for ulti caius) at your locals for around $5 apiece, and the bulk of the deck is composed of commons or cheap foils like gorz, and Tragoedia.

[StrikeCommander000]

lol...do you whine about how expensive an aston martin is?

You do realize how stupid you look comparing apples to oranges, right?

Your username says everything: a N00B Asian who has no idea what he's talking about. I can't wait for this game to fall apart, and see whre your "investment" lies.

[wrathchild]

i would if i needed to run 3 in a child's card game

I'll admit, I laughed a little.


Seriously though, POD at 100 bux a pop is yucky.

[Ninja Storm]

I've been seeing a person being hated against because he has money to spend on this game. There are a few cases for this:

1. He's stupid, and doesn't eat any food.
2. He still has his parents to pay for his lavish Yugioh lifestyle.
3. He's been successful in life, made money, and now wants to waste it.

In two of these cases, he can get flamed. At least allow him to explain if he's #'s 1, 2, or 3 before you bash him.

[Trixie Lulamoon]

I've been seeing a person being hated against because he has money to spend on this game. There are a few cases for this:

1. He's stupid, and doesn't eat any food.
2. He still has his parents to pay for his lavish Yugioh lifestyle.
3. He's been successful in life, made money, and now wants to waste it.

In two of these cases, he can get flamed. At least allow him to explain if he's #'s 1, 2, or 3 before you bash him.

... I've had 13 year olds tell me I am lazy because I was not willing to work for my cards. Guess what he attributed his ability to spend money on cards to? His own hard work, of course.

Also, success is kinda... Relative. I'd be successful if my father had a business and got me a job in there too. So saying a man is self made is more important than saying they're successful.

Also, I was overweight as a child. Ridiculed for it a lot. When I was in grade 7, I stopped eating lunch, breakfast, basically any meal I could get away with at the time. And I still do. So apparently I'm a ******, or stupid.

[Ninja Storm]

... I've had 13 year olds tell me I am lazy because I was not willing to work for my cards. Guess what he attributed his ability to spend money on cards to? His own hard work, of course.

Also, success is kinda... Relative. I'd be successful if my father had a business and got me a job in there too. So saying a man is self made is more important than saying they're successful.

Also, I was overweight as a child. Ridiculed for it a lot. When I was in grade 7, I stopped eating lunch, breakfast, basically any meal I could get away with at the time. And I still do. So apparently I'm a ******, or stupid.

1. I'm not completely sure what you're saying here.
2. True.
3. Eh, well that's not really what I meant by that... I understand your situation, but I'm sure you actually ate enough to sustain yourself...

[echarit]

I've been seeing a person being hated against because he has money to spend on this game. There are a few cases for this:

1. He's stupid, and doesn't eat any food.
2. He still has his parents to pay for his lavish Yugioh lifestyle.
3. He's been successful in life, made money, and now wants to waste it.

In two of these cases, he can get flamed. At least allow him to explain if he's #'s 1, 2, or 3 before you bash him.


Number 3 is the most rare the most logic and the best person to play with...

[Trixie Lulamoon]

1. I'm not completely sure what you're saying here.
2. True.
3. Eh, well that's not really what I meant by that... I understand your situation, but I'm sure you actually ate enough to sustain yourself...

1. Asking someone what camp they fall into is entirely meaningless. Do you really think that 13 year old kid EARNED his full Lightsworn deck? By the same merit you or I would? If you ask ANYONE, they will lie, or delude themselves into believing they earned something themselves.

2. Since it's about respect, I give respect to someone who has earned success. I give no respect to those whom had it handed to them.

3. Of course, but I generally eat very little, even today. Hence why I weigh 130lbs. Not a very big guy. Also, I spent the lunch money I saved on card games (profit!). Starter Deck Kaiba Evolution was awesome when I was 12. I had 2.

[Blood Lotus]

... I've had 13 year olds tell me I am lazy because I was not willing to work for my cards. Guess what he attributed his ability to spend money on cards to? His own hard work, of course.

Also, I was overweight as a child. Ridiculed for it a lot. When I was in grade 7, I stopped eating lunch, breakfast, basically any meal I could get away with at the time. And I still do. So apparently I'm a ******, or stupid.

How about getting sports training ?? I mean seriously ??

Stopping eating really won't help you out, just watch what you're eating, such as cooking your own food and get some infos on what can make you fat, personally I'd take more fresh vegetables, might be hard work but it does pay off, not to mention it costs less to do this instead of taking fast food. When it comes to just small snacks, try out fresh fruits.

Worked for me, remember this, just changing eating habits is not enough to lose weight on it's own, you also gotta do some exercises too, still, the hard parts ain't to lose the extra weight, instead it's to keep a healthy weight not not gaining weight again.

Not everyone is lazy because of not having a job, many only are asking for a fair job, but it ain't as simple as this since not many people get hired these days

Hard work ?? A 13 years old ?? Now it's making me laugh, it's illegal to take a job when being underage, unless he worked in a sweatshop for cheap labor, just don't buy his word for it, he obviously got his cards from mom and dad's money, but his folks don't have eternal life and won't be around to give him cards forever, then he'll find out what the words Hard Work really means.

If you don't have a job of your own, why not taking some of your free time to get involved on volunteering for some charity work ?? It does counts legally as working hours, you get some working experience, then volunteer workers often get a better chance of getting hired for a paying job out of it, not to mention getting yourself a better reputation.

Of course, it also means having to possibly downsize the cards spendings but you could also meet up a possible girlfriend and get a good dose of what having a life really means.

[Ninja Storm]

1. Asking someone what camp they fall into is entirely meaningless. Do you really think that 13 year old kid EARNED his full Lightsworn deck? By the same merit you or I would? If you ask ANYONE, they will lie, or delude themselves into believing they earned something themselves.

2. Since it's about respect, I give respect to someone who has earned success. I give no respect to those whom had it handed to them.

3. Of course, but I generally eat very little, even today. Hence why I weigh 130lbs. Not a very big guy. Also, I spent the lunch money I saved on card games (profit!). Starter Deck Kaiba Evolution was awesome when I was 12. I had 2.

1. Ah. OK.
To tell the truth, I got my Machina Gadgets deck(almost completely holoed out) by mowing people's lawns last summer. Mhmmm, $12 a mow xD

2. Again, true.

3. Eh, it's all personal preference.

[Blood Lotus]

StrikeCommander000: Finally, someone that feels the same way I do about this game, I used to play it for years, but have stopped entering tournaments because of too much spendings and I needed the money else where, now that I really stopped buying more and more cards, it felt better on the bank account and was more able to think about some more important stuff under control in my life.

Not to mention that I became disgusted by playing this game, at least in tournaments, either local or other types, having to deal with OTK and FTK Decks really discouraged me from playing, the show looked more and more like some kindda big commercial for this game to me, next turned out that I was started to see more and more other guys that were only in this for the money above all else and were willing to do whatever it takes to get this money, which included lies, cheats, scams, and thefts.

A real game doesn't have the purposes of spending more and more money just to keep playing on equal terms, it's about having a good time with friends you know and trust, or just familly.

Personnally, I see the cheatings, lying and thefts more about people that lie to themselves thinking they really won when they not only didn't deserved to win, they just bought the wins and lied to themselves into thinking they earned the wins when it's not so.

It's just pathetic to see.

Konami gets the fun at the player's expenses as they sell more and more cards.

Maybe I'm just the traditional type that doesn't really care about getting the money out of tournaments but I also stopped out of personnal beliefs, I only have two decks now but they're only meant for causal playing, I'm not buying anymore in fact.

[Neoparshath]

Pretty much sums up today's Yu-Gi-Oh! players, just replace dinosaurs with expensive cards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY5ArW3Ncfo

[Blood Lotus]

Pretty much sums up today's Yu-Gi-Oh! players, just replace dinosaurs with expensive cards.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY5ArW3Ncfo

Definitely...

[EddieMomo]

the business is mine and its invested money in hedge funds --->opening subway franchise. and the grammar is that way because i obviously dont want to put more effort than i do in posting on forums. if u can read it then the point is across. i really dont care if u believe me or not but it is what it is, and crying on forums about card rarities and money is sad. go do something useful. heh


whered you get the money to invest?

but seriously, starting a subway franchise is about the easiest thing you can do.

Sure just mooch off a big business franchise. i just have to pay them and i get back twenty times the amount over my life time.

Most people who own 3+ houses choose not to do this. We choose to start a business that we enjoy doing. It doesn't make much money but we know we got it here by ourselves. I could've started my own mcdonalds 2 years ago but we didnt because they limit you to only one license.

For people who start with nothing, they must work to gain the money to invest.

FYI no one considers a subways franchise a million dollar company.

and if anyone is gonna talk about my grammar and spelling and ****, **** you, this is the internet. no one gives a **** except for people who just lost an argument and still want to look superior.

[goldbakura123]

Angry rant because someone's poor or can't manage their money to keep up. Heh cry more.

well **** you! Obviously you live under a silver platter because you are wealthy and think people are poor because they deserve it...sorry people who do WORK have to pay bills instead of buying 200 dollar pieces of cardboard...who is the ****** in this situation?

[AnakinSkywalker]

Yes, YGO costs a LOT of money, that's why back in 2007 I decided it was more important to collect movies than to buy cards. I'm back now, maybe for good or until the game runs out of cards to print. :eek:

[DDWhorriorLady]

Yeah these expensive cards are causing me to steal. And those sly fu2ks at konami only reprint a card once it's not broken, but just good, if that.

Additional Comment:

well **** you! Obviously you live under a silver platter because you are wealthy and think people are poor because they deserve it...sorry people who do WORK have to pay bills instead of buying 200 dollar pieces of cardboard...who is the ****** in this situation?

Lol, chill, he Probly still lives with his parents.

[BlackRainbow1204]

Money cards are fine, there will always be cards worth more money than others. However, there is a line that shouldn't be crossed.

[Wakstaskate]

I go to ucla, my parents are rich, i found my own million dollar company without their help, i have a 3.9 gpa and im good at yugioh. what do u do? plz get on my level. only poor people and ******s have time to cry on forums in paragraphs/walls of text about things that dont matter like "aw damn this game is so expesive qq." nobody is making u play. if u dont like it, play something else. maybe if people like you don't spend their days writing on this forum and applied themselves you would get somewhere.
You have a million dollar company and u can't even write your sentences properly. Right. Trooooll.

[PKpwnage]

You have a million dollar company and u can't even write your sentences properly. Right. Trooooll.
Fix your sig.

[bioober]

1. Asking someone what camp they fall into is entirely meaningless. Do you really think that 13 year old kid EARNED his full Lightsworn deck? By the same merit you or I would? If you ask ANYONE, they will lie, or delude themselves into believing they earned something themselves.


Well I had a near complete Lightsworn deck that was missing 1 honest when I was like.. 14? when it was worth over $500. But I spent like only 20$ on it, It bought a set of exodia and traded my way up to a LS deck. Does that count as earning it or being given to me cause that 20$ was Chinese new years money.

[Kokonoe]

I think my limit on a card i'd want and really want would be around 30ish dollars.
Any higher then that and i'd just never get the card.

It's a shame we can't use OCG cards, all the good cards are super cheap.

[Vanguard Veteran]

This is why I play pokemon. I can breed my trade bait lol.

[Seoman_Targaryen]

I totally agree with Strike on this.

And I can easily afford the game through the job that I now have, so the
"U POOR U STUPID U NO GET GOOD CARDS" statements are completely and utterly pointless.

I enjoy the competetive scene, but I'd enjoy it even more if there were more people willing to play in it.

But the sad truth that will not change is this... Like most large companies (and even some small that I know of) the amount of profit they make is priority one and false propoganda of "Customer is always right and the number one priority" is just that... false propoganda. As they see it... they will make larger profits doing it this way... And saying it "won't survive" is something I had thought 8 years ago. I was wrong and Konami is still going somewhat strong.

It is not nearly as successful as it was when it started in the US, but that's simply because the Internet and portable devices were just starting to make a huge impact on the world. There are now even more things to do in the world for much cheaper than this card game or maybe not cheaper, but to others... more enjoyable or time consuming.

So, Konami did what it thought best... Appeal to the hardcore players of this game. And apparently it has been working.

[Idioteva]

I totally agree with this rant. I'm new to buying the game (have always been in the fandom playing the game ect but never buying) and I have one deck because well I can't afford anymore. I have a spellcaster deck and buying the synchro cards were a nightmare and had to buy the deck in parts. I know the second deck I will run is most probably the next structure deck because almost everything is alread there.

[RockTheRhythm]

You do realize how stupid you look comparing apples to oranges, right?

Your username says everything: a N00B Asian who has no idea what he's talking about. I can't wait for this game to fall apart, and see whre your "investment" lies.

It's a hobby. Even if you can't afford the big stuff, you can still do well. I re-call some dude getting far in a YCS without duality OR warning. AKA a budget deck. You just have to not suck.

I'm sure you can't wait for this game to fall apart, because you can't pay for the expensive stuff. But nobody at the same time is forcing you to do so and it's quite obvious you're angry at Konami when they aren't even the ones who make the prices - it's the user base.

You don't have to play Yu-Gi-Oh! if you really need said cards as well. Go do something else. Most people who trade or buy those cards do so just so they can be competitive anyways. They aren't doing it to "invest". I sure as hell am not. And this game isn't going to fall through for a long time. Still has a huge fan base. So yeah, I'm totally fine with trading for a 130 dollar card. Because I can afford it. if not I would budget it up. And that's just because I love playing the game that much.

Complaining about obvious things won't get you anywhere. Oh. And I found it ironic that you mentioned that people should get "jobs" if their investment in the game falls over. People with jobs DO play this game. Did you know some people use their hard earned cash to pay for their cards so they can enjoy the game further? And why do you think they do this? Because they enjoy playing the game that much - and that's a real hobby.

Just accept reality dude. That is how things are. Whining about it won't fix it. Wishing the game would end is only childish just because you can't clearly afford those cards. Why don't you go get a job then? Maybe you could, then. Or maybe you already have one and don't want to purchase the cards? That's not our fault. Don't play the game then - or just pro it up with a budget deck. It can be done. I heard Machina was good.

[Chaos_Theory]

But nobody at the same time is forcing you to do so and it's quite obvious you're angry at Konami when they aren't even the ones who make the prices - it's the user base.

I have no issues with the rest of your post, but this part is just simply not true. By giving cards such as Duality and Warning a major rarity boost, Konami is laying the groundwork for the huge prices. While the seconday market keeps driving the prices up, it's Konami's fault for feeling the need put these money cards at their respective rarity.

[RockTheRhythm]

I have no issues with the rest of your post, but this part is just simply not true. By giving cards such as Duality and Warning a major rarity boost, Konami is laying the groundwork for the huge prices. While the seconday market keeps driving the prices up, it's Konami's fault for feeling the need put these money cards at their respective rarity.



I'm actually on the side with this one in reality. I already knew about the rarities, but it was the masses of us that drove up the pricing on each of them, especially Duality. Warning was initially only a 15-20 dollar card that nobody wanted. But regionals and JUMPs drove that up to 40-45.

Though, I actually think Duality was ALWAYS at 100. Can anyone confirm or dis-confirm this?

[StrikeCommander000]

It's a hobby. Even if you can't afford the big stuff, you can still do well. I re-call some dude getting far in a YCS without duality OR warning. AKA a budget deck. You just have to not suck.

I'm sure you can't wait for this game to fall apart, because you can't pay for the expensive stuff. But nobody at the same time is forcing you to do so and it's quite obvious you're angry at Konami when they aren't even the ones who make the prices - it's the user base.

You don't have to play Yu-Gi-Oh! if you really need said cards as well. Go do something else. Most people who trade or buy those cards do so just so they can be competitive anyways. They aren't doing it to "invest". I sure as hell am not. And this game isn't going to fall through for a long time. Still has a huge fan base. So yeah, I'm totally fine with trading for a 130 dollar card. Because I can afford it. if not I would budget it up. And that's just because I love playing the game that much.

Complaining about obvious things won't get you anywhere. Oh. And I found it ironic that you mentioned that people should get "jobs" if their investment in the game falls over. People with jobs DO play this game. Did you know some people use their hard earned cash to pay for their cards so they can enjoy the game further? And why do you think they do this? Because they enjoy playing the game that much - and that's a real hobby.

Just accept reality dude. That is how things are. Whining about it won't fix it. Wishing the game would end is only childish just because you can't clearly afford those cards. Why don't you go get a job then? Maybe you could, then. Or maybe you already have one and don't want to purchase the cards? That's not our fault. Don't play the game then - or just pro it up with a budget deck. It can be done. I heard Machina was good.

I never said I WANTED the game to fall apart; quite the contrary, I want it to thrive. That said, at the rate it's going w/the overly rare and expensive cards, the hoarding and scalping of said cards, etc. the game will eventually collapse on itself.

I will however laugh at the greedy, selfish and conceited players who look down on everyone because they have better cards, when the game falls apart. They think they're better than everyone else because they can afford to pay stupid high prices for cardboard, and when that cardboard becomes worthless, the ones they ridiculed will have the last laugh.

The game needs the players, but the players don't NEED the game. Maybe if we sent this message to Konami, they'd think more about the player base, and less about their swimming pools full of money.

[RockTheRhythm]

I never said I WANTED the game to fall apart; quite the contrary, I want it to thrive. That said, at the rate it's going w/the overly rare and expensive cards, the hoarding and scalping of said cards, etc. the game will eventually collapse on itself.

I will however laugh at the greedy, selfish and conceited players who look down on everyone because they have better cards, when the game falls apart. They think they're better than everyone else because they can afford to pay stupid high prices for cardboard, and when that cardboard becomes worthless, the ones they ridiculed will have the last laugh.

I'm almost certain you said that in context to someone else's post. I don't really feel like looking for it, but I think it was on page 8.

As for your second statement, there was the chaos era which was expensive and the even more so Lightsworn Era ... I mean the only real expensive cards are the ones you stated, and someday they will be due for reprints. I don't think it'll collapse. At least anytime soon. Maybe with all this ZeXaL **** though.

I will agree with your final statement. They put all their money into it just for it to burn to cinders, pretty much. But this is only for those greedy, rich ******** who don't care for others and do indeed think they are better for affording better cardboard. But just to let you know, you probably being one of them, we're not all like that. I spend some of my paycheck on shiny cards but I never belittle other players. Matter of fact I do try to help them out and give them advice about the game.

In the end, I suppose I just felt a little offended since it reminded me of the card game I played in between Yu-Gi-Oh! which was Duel Masters and it was my passion until it fell apart. I don't to this day know the reason why.

Well, thank you for the read. :)

[RayND]

Though, I actually think Duality was ALWAYS at 100. Can anyone confirm or dis-confirm this?

Duality was going for some ridiculously low price when DREV first came out and everyone thought it was worthless ("lol no special summoning roffle"). People were literally trading them away for garbage.

[PKpwnage]

Duality was going for some ridiculously low price when DREV first came out and everyone thought it was worthless ("lol no special summoning roffle"). People were literally trading them away for garbage.
Duality was $100-120 upon release.

[PsychicKid]

The absolute lowest I saw was maaaybe $90. It's pretty much always been a $100 card.

[RayND]

Duality was $100-120 upon release.

Guess the guy I heard from was just a liar and a braggart. Doesn't surprise me, being Pojo.

[4Chan]

Not entirely, the original price was around 60-70 but after everyone started actually playing it instead of calling it trash, it went up to about 100-120. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, its going for around 150-180. On the bright side, it is still hella lot cheaper than DaD couple formats ago. All and all this is an amazing format. You don't need PoD to win. If people spent more time paying attention to what they thought was good and planning ahead they would know be able to buy cards for a lot cheaper than if they had just followed the ban wagon. I was able to get 2 warnings for $20 a piece because I valued it a lot and I knew it was going to be good. In this game I think skill coupled with a 200-300 price tag deck could easily compete with decks that use all the chase cards. I am not a rich person, and I am sorry to say this but if you want to spend $50 and be competitive that is not going to happen. You need a healthy medium between still and money to play in the competitive scene $150 could get you a t2 deck. 300+ could get you a t1. I hate to ***** about people who want the game to be cheaper, but really this is the best its going to get, Konami owns this game and if you cannot shell out $150 or at least trade around this is the wrong game for you. However, people that spend $500+ dollars and sit up on their high-horse is far worse then people who complain about how expensive it is. I could really care less about how rich people got their cards, I care more about how they act with them. Loosing to someone who rubs their wealth in your face and calls you lazy is the worst feeling in the world (especially when the did far less than you to get their cards). Here is what I think on this matter: Rich people, shut the hell up! you can afford to play with the best cards available, stop *******g about it. I fail to see why rich people whine about how poor people say the game is expensive, you already can build whatever you want, stop nagging about how others have serious issues with money. People who can't afford to play this game, work to earn the money. I know you have to pay bills and such, but would $10-20 dollars saved away every paycheck hurt you much? And if you don't have a job do some work around your hood. I've earned $60 in a weekend just mowing lawns. Yes cards are expensive, yes they should be cheaper, but arguing isn't going to solve anything, so people who can afford this game stop complaining and just beat the dude who tries to win without fancy PoDs. To people who cant afford to play quite whining and make plan to earn some extra money via work, save it up and you can play frognarchs, or KMP or something.

[PKpwnage]

Not entirely, the original price was around 60-70 but after everyone started actually playing it instead of calling it trash, it went up to about 100-120. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, its going for around 150-180. On the bright side, it is still hella lot cheaper than DaD couple formats ago. All and all this is an amazing format. You don't need PoD to win. If people spent more time paying attention to what they thought was good and planning ahead they would know be able to buy cards for a lot cheaper than if they had just followed the ban wagon. I was able to get 2 warnings for $20 a piece because I valued it a lot and I knew it was going to be good. In this game I think skill coupled with a 200-300 price tag deck could easily compete with decks that use all the chase cards. I am not a rich person, and I am sorry to say this but if you want to spend $50 and be competitive that is not going to happen. You need a healthy medium between still and money to play in the competitive scene $150 could get you a t2 deck. 300+ could get you a t1. I hate to ***** about people who want the game to be cheaper, but really this is the best its going to get, Konami owns this game and if you cannot shell out $150 or at least trade around this is the wrong game for you. However, people that spend $500+ dollars and sit up on their high-horse is far worse then people who complain about how expensive it is. I could really care less about how rich people got their cards, I care more about how they act with them. Loosing to someone who rubs their wealth in your face and calls you lazy is the worst feeling in the world (especially when the did far less than you to get their cards). Here is what I think on this matter: Rich people, shut the hell up! you can afford to play with the best cards available, stop *******g about it. I fail to see why rich people whine about how poor people say the game is expensive, you already can build whatever you want, stop nagging about how others have serious issues with money. People who can't afford to play this game, work to earn the money. I know you have to pay bills and such, but would $10-20 dollars saved away every paycheck hurt you much? And if you don't have a job do some work around your hood. I've earned $60 in a weekend just mowing lawns. Yes cards are expensive, yes they should be cheaper, but arguing isn't going to solve anything, so people who can afford this game stop complaining and just beat the dude who tries to win without fancy PoDs. To people who cant afford to play quite whining and make plan to earn some extra money via work, save it up and you can play frognarchs, or KMP or something.
First, break that **** up.

Duality was never below $100 on average. No one ever called it trash.

It is by no means an amazing format. Call me picky, but I don't care for formats where it's either 'set x pass' or 'hey I drew Trunade.' I'd personally like to make several changes to the list.

You don't need Duality to win, but it sure helps a hell of a lot.

We whine about poor people complaining because they feel entitled to have the same expensive cards, without showing any effort to actually get said cards.

[4Chan]

you sure? I remember seeing "buy it now" PoDs all over ebay for 60-70 a week or 2 after the set was released. I guess I've never been in the same predicament then, PoDs do help, but in my experience I've often won against decks that use them.

Just look at OCG not very many of their decks run PoDs anymore. Its all sams and quasar-doppel. PoD is an excelent strength for decks that don't already have one. KMP can get +3s every turn with Shogun. Doppel can **** out a quasar with like 6 cards in hand. Sams... well... you know what they do. Being poor limits your options, that is true. But, there are still so many things you can play that are just as good, if not better than decks with PoD.

[PKpwnage]

you sure? I remember seeing "buy it now" PoDs all over ebay for 60-70 a week or 2 after the set was released. I guess I've never been in the same predicament then, PoDs do help, but in my experience I've often won against decks that use them.

Just look at OCG not very many of their decks run PoDs anymore. Its all sams and quasar-doppel. PoD is an excelent strength for decks that don't already have one. KMP can get +3s every turn with Shogun. Doppel can **** out a quasar with like 6 cards in hand. Sams... well... you know what they do. Being poor limits your options, that is true. But, there are still so many things you can play that are just as good, if not better than decks with PoD.
Those would have been lots with Duality in them.

We are not the OCG. Our meta is not all Sams and Doppel. Give us Librarian and Quasar, then we'll talk.

[Vanguard Veteran]

So glad i never spend money on cardboard anymore. This game was good up until Phantom Darkness, then it all went to ****.

[Wakstaskate]

Well I had a near complete Lightsworn deck that was missing 1 honest when I was like.. 14? when it was worth over $500. But I spent like only 20$ on it, It bought a set of exodia and traded my way up to a LS deck. Does that count as earning it or being given to me cause that 20$ was Chinese new years money.
Wow. Respect dude.

[StrikeCommander000]

We whine about poor people complaining because they feel entitled to have the same expensive cards, without showing any effort to actually get said cards.

Hey, I busted my balls to get Duality, but I still don't condone it's current secondary value. I lucked out BIG TIME (someone I met at Ohayocon this year valued them at $60 each), and worked out a really good deal.

Problem is, you have more corrupt and greedy people playing this game than people who are willing to work something out, an why is that? It's because Konami screws the rarities to high hell.

tl;dr: The game NEEDS the players, the players don't NEED the game. Konami needs to realize this, and we're the only ones that can send the message.

[Noobazn88]

lol what a bunch of whiners...is anyone forcing you to play? and no i don't own any dualities...but i don't complain...

As i said before...should i whine that i don't own a ferrari?

[PKpwnage]

Problem is, you have more corrupt and greedy people playing this game than people who are willing to work something out, an why is that? It's because Konami screws the rarities to high hell.
No you don't. Most locals are about 70-80% populated by people willing to work things out.

[AxelSlam]

No you don't. Most locals are about 70-80% populated by people willing to work things out.

i wish
10wishes

[Seoman_Targaryen]

I'm actually on the side with this one in reality. I already knew about the rarities, but it was the masses of us that drove up the pricing on each of them, especially Duality. Warning was initially only a 15-20 dollar card that nobody wanted. But regionals and JUMPs drove that up to 40-45.

Though, I actually think Duality was ALWAYS at 100. Can anyone confirm or dis-confirm this?

I believe you are correct... some people at release dates for sets over value or under value cards based on the amount of hype they receive or simply based on rarity value of the cards at the time. So, to be honest duality could have been under valued by some folks at around a 60-80$ range just because they based it on rarity in the set rather than playability (seeing as they couldn't foresee the future) and warnings would be the same.. rarity in the set and under hype of the card itself placed it in the 20-30$ range (never saw it as low as 15, but as I said it depends on a number of factors where prices come from).

However, now... Duality is priced from the 130-160$ range and Warning from 65-80$ range.

That will not change until the formats meta makes a huge change... which will probably be in september for the new ban list.