What Do?

[The_Dark_Monarch]

Here's a little article for those of you who have ever been 'driven to distraction' when you have asked for an opinion or posted your deck for a 'fix' only to receive endless conflicting replies all beginning with 'Now, if I were you.....'

As most of you may know, I run Dark Necrofear Control.

As most of you may also be aware, Generic Fiends are on about Tier 10.

I always cop s*** for running Fiends, so about a week ago, I thought to myself: 'I know what I will do....I will compromise my own unique playstyle with other people's 'competitive attitude' (I do not have one of those) and I shall build myself a Chaos Stun deck.

Mistakenly, I thought that this would shut everybody up.

So...I got all my stuff together and made the best blasted Chaos Stun build I could with everything currently available to me (Sorc, Caius, TKR's, Kycoos, DDWL's, Jowgens, Alchemists, Staples, Black Horns of Heaven etc). Yes, I am even prepared to buy DCK's, Dualities, Solemn Warnings, Fossil Dyna Pachecephalos....anything to finish that deck up and make it beast.

When I finished making it the best I could, I showed some competitive people and basically got told: 'Chaos Stun is crap....run Rock Stun...run Gemini Stun...run any other stun but Chaos Stun'.

When I asked 'Why is that?' I received the most lame answer one can ever get in the game 'Chaos Stun is too slow' (wtf does 'too slow' mean anyway)?

I did not stop my 'compromising' there....I even said that I would be prepared to netdeck a Chaos Stun build or even drop the Chaos aspect altogether and run just plain old Stun like Noel Garde's build...

I told other people about this and then it was like: 'Doomcaliber Knights are crap, what do you want to run those for? don't waste your money with Stun...have you thought about running Quickdraw DandyWarrior, Debris-Hime, Six Samurai or Infernities?...those are the best decks now'.

I said that the thought had never crossed my mind for one split second! lol

So...it appears that even though I have stepped up in this game like 7 Tiers, that's still not good enough and you cannot 'compromise' with other people just to shut them up. I have tried getting 'better' here, but I am doomed forever to be 'bad at the game' unless I run what everybody else thinks I should be running even though no two people will ever agree on that.

All they can agree on is that Chaos Sorcerer, Caius the Shadow Monarch and Doomcaliber Knight all suck.

I am still going to buy a playset of DCK's and when anybody asks me 'why did you buy that crap for?' do you know what my answer is gonna be?

'To put them in my Dark Necrofear deck and kick arse with it'. lol

[DarwinDawkins09]

If I were you (lol), I would play whatever deck damn well pleased me but seriously some of the responses you got show how bad the competitive players in your area truly are. If they say crap like "DCK and Caius suck." they are obviously parroting nonsense they read on the internet posted by bad players. If you ask someone for a fix or deck help on any deck that is not tier 1 they will invariably tell you that you should run a tier 1 deck and/or insult your current deck with vague useless comments like "Its too slow".

Only experienced players can give helpful advice about deck types that are not tier 1, usually these are players that have played that particular deck for a while and have tried several builds until they got it right for their play style. Bad players can only suggest fixes that amount to telling you to change your deck into a netdeck of the most recent YCS winning deck, don't listen to those noobs.

[The_Dark_Monarch]

Yes..I thought I may be expecting too much when even a reply of 'so, you finally got rid of that stupid Fiend deck...good for you' was not forthcoming. lmao

[Shnickerdoodles]

You bought dualities, warnings and doomcals? :O

[The_Dark_Monarch]

You bought dualities, warnings and doomcals? :O

Not yet. I purchased two Doomcals yesterday and I am waiting for them to arrive, but I needed those anyway (for my *cough* 'collection'). lol

I realise that I will need PoD's and Warnings though, but I will have to save up for them...

If they can make Gravekeeper's good...anything is possible. lmao

[TunaRolls]

If there was more Dark Attribute Antimeta monsters, Chaos Stun would be extremely good. As it stands right now, its just 3x DCK and 2x Chaos Sorcerer.

Twilight would be a better choice to run Chaos Sorcerers.

That said, I love rouge decks. You should stick with Necrofear Control and make it competitive with the usual staples that make all decks competitive [3x Duality + 2x Warning]. :P

[The_Dark_Monarch]

If there was more Dark Attribute Antimeta monsters, Chaos Stun would be extremely good. As it stands right now, its just 3x DCK and 2x Chaos Sorcerer.

Twilight would be a better choice to run Chaos Sorcerers.

That said, I love rouge decks. You should stick with Necrofear Control and make it competitive with the usual staples that make all decks competitive [3x Duality + 2x Warning]. :P

I was also thinking about Fiend Stun (most monsters that are anti-meta are Fiends)...

Thing is, Chaos Sorcerer is much easier to bring out than Dark Necrofear...

I realise that there are not a lot of good Dark Monsters that Stun...only Doomcaliber Knight and to a much lesser extent, Kycoo & D.D. Crow.

There are also not many good Light Monsters that do it either, only Thunder King Rai-Oh and to a much lesser extent D.D.Warrior Lady, Effect Veiler & Jowgen the Spiritualist.

Then, you have Tributes like Vanity's Fiend & The End of Anubis and non-Light/Dark like FDP and King Tiger Wanghu.

That's it!!!.

Truth be known, I don't have the cards to make any other decks besides Fiends, Chaos, Basic Monarchs, Burn or Empty Jar and I would rather quit than start another deck over from scratch. I just simply cannot be arsed doing it anymore.

So, I just asked those 'competitive players' 'what do?' and they told me to either run Chaos Stun or quit if those are my only alternatives.

[TunaRolls]

What about (con)trolling your opponent with a line up of:
3x DCK
3x D.D. Crow
3x TKRO
3x Effect Veiler
3x Fossil Dyna Pachycephalo
2x Chaos Sorcerer
+ (Maybe King Tigers and Gigantes?)

it would be reaaaly fun to try out.

[The_Dark_Monarch]

What about (con)trolling your opponent with a line up of:
3x DCK
3x D.D. Crow
3x TKRO
3x Effect Veiler
3x Fossil Dyna Pachycephalo
2x Chaos Sorcerer
+ (Maybe King Tigers and Gigantes?)

it would be reaaaly fun to try out.

This is the direction and shape my deck is taking atm, but instead of 3X Effect Veilers & 3X Fossil Dyna Pachycephalos, I am running 2 of each and 2X Banishers of the Radiance.

I mean, we can also put Dark monsters in there that do not 'Stun' like Spirit Reaper, Breaker the Magical Warrior, Caius The Shadow Monarchs etc..

Or, we can even use non Light/Darks like Morphing Jar, Neo Spacian Grand Mole, Fossil Dyna Pachycephalos and whatever...

Yes, it has been really fun putting this deck together, and what I am also learning is that the 'stun onus' falls mostly upon your Spells & Traps than the monsters, so it's those that require the most work (especially Spells)...

The 'monster bit' is easy in comparison.

[TunaRolls]

Oh yeaaaah, I nearly forgot about Banishers. I've been siding them so often, I actually forgot STUN main decks them.

You should think about King Tigers as well. They're like a different sort of Fossil Dyna. I think King Tigers should have been a much higher rarity with what they have to offer against decks.

I know this last bit may be very unorthodox, but what about running Necrovalleys with some Terraforming?

[The_Dark_Monarch]

Oh yeaaaah, I nearly forgot about Banishers. I've been siding them so often, I actually forgot STUN main decks them.

You should think about King Tigers as well. They're like a different sort of Fossil Dyna. I think King Tigers should have been a much higher rarity with what they have to offer against decks.

I know this last bit may be very unorthodox, but what about running Necrovalleys with some Terraforming?

If I was going to run the Gravekeeper Engine, I probably would...see, there's more Darks that can go in this.. :)

If running King Tiger Wanghu, then Burden of the Mighty is an 'auto-include'.

As it is now (and until I get the Tigers & Pot of Dualities) I am running 2X My Body as a Shield (for all of that Field wiping stuff)...I am also running 2X Smashing Ground and 2X Book of Moon....

Now, once I get the 3X PoD & 2X Burdens, something has gotta give and I don't know whether that's going to be the MBaaS or the Smashing Grounds..
Of course I am running Allure, Reborn, Dark Hole & Cold Wave as well...

See the problem?

[TunaRolls]

Drop the MBaaS. I started out thinking MBaaS was some awesome godlike tech that saves your ass more often then not, however, I grew out of it because although it saved my skin more times than I can count, there were even more situations where I hoped it was something with a more concrete effect so I could make a play off it.

tl;dr Effects like Smashing Ground are reliable. My Body as a Shield is not.

[The_Dark_Monarch]

Drop the MBaaS. I started out thinking MBaaS was some awesome godlike tech that saves your ass more often then not, however, I grew out of it because although it saved my skin more times than I can count, there were even more situations where I hoped it was something with a more concrete effect so I could make a play off it.

tl;dr Effects like Smashing Ground are reliable. My Body as a Shield is not.

You are right. I am starting to discover this too.

When I finally get those cards, I can begin to think about what I will remove for them and then do it one card at a time.

Of course, I am going to have to, with PoD's being $130 a pop. :p

I will also keep those 'replaced cards' like Breakers, Reaper, DDWL's, MBaas, Lightning Vortex (side decked), Black Horns of Heaven & Compulsory Evac Devices aside...one never knows when they may become 'useful' all of a sudden.

[TunaRolls]

Dualities are more like 80-90 USD per now. You just have to look around a bit.

Unless you're speaking from AUS.

[The_Dark_Monarch]

Dualities are more like 80-90 USD per now. You just have to look around a bit.

Unless you're speaking from AUS.

I am speaking from AUS.

*although, If I am lucky, I may find one for @ USD$85 with only $3-$4 postage*

One good thing though, Doomcals are like $30- $35 over here now...

(I remember paying that much each for my Game Promo Secret Rare Slate Warriors...that I still have...when they first came out.....memories.....)

Cards being 'crap' certainly has an upside though. :p

[TunaRolls]

Prices on Pot of Duality are dropping on US ebay auctions thanks to those lovely scammers :]

At first it was "Chance to get a Pot of Duality!"

Then, "You get Pot of Duality! or a secret rare"

Now, they just scam you lol.

Just imagine 9 out of 10 Pot of Duality auctions you see being one of the above.

[The_Dark_Monarch]

Prices on Pot of Duality are dropping on US ebay auctions thanks to those lovely scammers :]

At first it was "Chance to get a Pot of Duality!"

Then, "You get Pot of Duality! or a secret rare"

Now, they just scam you lol.

Just imagine 9 out of 10 Pot of Duality auctions you see being one of the above.

Yes. I have seen those.

Wherever the words 'chance' or 'win' or anything like that is involved, I just ignore it.

Now, they show a picture of a holo first ed card and in tiny writing down the bottom, you will read:

*photo is a 'stock photo' only and bears no relevance to the item you will actually be receiving*.

I'd rather buy from a reputable on-line store and actually pay the extra $5 - $10 (especially if I am ordering the card from overseas), than hanging around my PC for bidding on the item with only like 2 seconds to go, or buying a program that actually bids on my behalf, or just plain old being scammed.

Life's just too short.

[TunaRolls]

I see your point. Paying 5-10 more dollars saves you lots of time looking for a deal that cuts you the very same amount.

Personally, I find the ebay scammers to be a boon. As things are this format, every deck needs Dualities to compete. Without them, price on Dualities may have gone up even further.

I do not find scams appropriate, but its a bright side that results from them.

[The_Dark_Monarch]

I see your point. Paying 5-10 more dollars saves you lots of time looking for a deal that cuts you the very same amount.

Personally, I find the ebay scammers to be a boon. As things are this format, every deck needs Dualities to compete. Without them, price on Dualities may have gone up even further.

I do not find scams appropriate, but its a bright side that results from them.

How did these scams actually lower the price on PoD though?

I figure that now, most people who wanted their PoD's have already got them and pricey cards have to have 'ceilings' on them.

I don't think that PoD will go over $150 like Dark Armed or CCV did.....if people pay like $200+ for a card again, they have no reason to be pissed off when Konami either reprints or limits/bans it.

I think that uncertainty regarding Konami's shady business practices and uncertainties surrounding the future of certain cards stops their prices from reaching astronomical proportions like we have seen in the past.

[Kestral287]

Honestly dude, run whatever you want. Chaos Stun isn't T1 but it's a hell of a lot more competative than what those people think. And from personal experience? It's a LOT of fun taking that deck that everybody said was crap and beating their face in with it.

...Now, that said, I'm curious: do you have a decklist of your Necrofear deck that you'd be willing to share?

[TunaRolls]

How did these scams actually lower the price on PoD though?

I figure that now, most people who wanted their PoD's have already got them and pricey cards have to have 'ceilings' on them.

I don't think that PoD will go over $150 like Dark Armed or CCV did.....if people pay like $200+ for a card again, they have no reason to be pissed off when Konami either reprints or limits/bans it.

I think that uncertainty regarding Konami's shady business practices and uncertainties surrounding the future of certain cards stops their prices from reaching astronomical proportions like we have seen in the past.

Many buyers and traders get their card values off of completed listings on ebay. When buyers start to trail off, and auctions begin ending at 70-80 USD because of the fear for a scam, card values decrease as a result.

Duality is a must for competitive play. It screams NECESSARY. Shouldn't a ScR in such high demand and low Supply increase in value?

It may be that the price has reached a ceiling, but I feel as the scammers impacted the price much more than any other factor.

[TasteThePoison]

Good for you! haha

Doomcal is gawd! [:

[The_Dark_Monarch]

Honestly dude, run whatever you want. Chaos Stun isn't T1 but it's a hell of a lot more competative than what those people think. And from personal experience? It's a LOT of fun taking that deck that everybody said was crap and beating their face in with it.

...Now, that said, I'm curious: do you have a decklist of your Necrofear deck that you'd be willing to share?

Here we go...here is the comparison...

Let's play: 'Spot the Competitive Deck'...:D

I'll Swap Ya. My Fiends, For Your....

2X Dark Necrofear
1X Gorz the Emissary of Darkness

3X Caius the Shadow Monarch
2X Jinzo

3X Battle Fader
2X Dark Mimic Lv 3
2X Dark Resonator
1X Plaguespreader Zombie
1X Phantom Skyblaster
2X Grave Squirmer
1X Snipe Hunter
1X Sangan

2X Fires of Doomsday
3X Creature Swap
2X Enemy Controller
2X Book of Moon
1X Allure of Darkness
1X Monster Reborn
1X Dark Hole
2X Mystical Space Typhoon

2X Bottomless Trap Hole
2X Dimensional Prison
1X Torrential Tribute
1X Mirror Force
1X Solemn Judgment

Extra Deck:

3X Stygian Sergeants
2X Chaos King Archfiend
2X Stardust Dragon
2X Gaia Knight The Force Of Earth
1X Infernity Doom Dragon
1X Black Rose Dragon
1X Red Dragon Archfiend
1X Psychic Lifetrancer

Side Deck:

1X Dark Necrofear
1X Dark Ruler Ha Des
3X Giant Orc
2X Newdoria
1X Snipe Hunter
3X Solidarity
2X Skill Drain
2X Deck Devastation Virus

Chaos Theory

2X Chaos Sorcerer
1X Gorz the Emissary of Darkness
2X Cyber Dragon

2X Caius the Shadow Monarch
1X Vanity's Fiend

2X Thunder King Rai-Oh
2X Kycoo the Ghost Destroyer
2X Banisher of the Radiance
2X D.D. Warrior Lady
2X Breaker the Magical Warrior
2X Dekoichi the Battlechanted Locomotive
1X Sangan

1X Allure of Darkness
2X Book of Moon
2X Smashing Ground
2X My Body as a Shield
1X Dark Hole
1X Monster Reborn
1X Cold Wave

2X Bottomless Trap Hole
3X Dimensional Prison
2X Black Horn of Heaven
1X Divine Wrath
1X Solemn Judgment
1X Mirror Force
1X Torrential Tribute

Extra Deck:

None

Side Deck:

3X Raiza the Storm Monarch
1X Caius the Shadow Monarch
1X Vanity's Fiend
1X Cyber Dragon
3X Battle Fader
3X Soul Exchange
3X Dark Bribe


...and now, you can all see why I've gone totally insane and made this thread. lol

Additional Comment:

Good for you! haha

Doomcal is gawd! [:

I know!

*I like your avvy too*

...and....I can use him in both of my decks...I am getting one Doomcal next week...one the week after X-Mas and the third one in the New Year.

[TasteThePoison]

Why thank you! haha

And good luck with the deck! i run a sort of chaos stun myself [:

[The_Dark_Monarch]

Many buyers and traders get their card values off of completed listings on ebay. When buyers start to trail off, and auctions begin ending at 70-80 USD because of the fear for a scam, card values decrease as a result.

Duality is a must for competitive play. It screams NECESSARY. Shouldn't a ScR in such high demand and low Supply increase in value?

It may be that the price has reached a ceiling, but I feel as the scammers impacted the price much more than any other factor.

Aaahhh...okay, I see it now and thanks for taking your time to explain it to me.

[Nintenderek]

It shouldn't matter what tier a deck is, you should run what you want to run. I've seen some pretty low tier decks beat some really top tier decks. People who believe only in the top meta, and play nothing but top tier decks, and run nothing but what other people tell them to run, are missing out on at least 80 percent of this game.

[slvrdrgn123]

It shouldn't matter what tier a deck is, you should run what you want to run. I've seen some pretty low tier decks beat some really top tier decks. People who believe only in the top meta, and play nothing but top tier decks, and run nothing but what other people tell them to run, are missing out on at least 80 percent of this game.
Agreed. The fun in the game is to build your deck to your liking and play style. Getting others opinions is good, but if all they do is bash then just ignore them.

For the past few months I've been playing many different variations of Watts and I do well enough with them. I don't win all the time, but a top 4 here and there every once in a while isn't too bad.

Last week I started on my old Chaos build again which I really liked. Play tested it and it might not be scrap fast, but it worked well enough for me. When my cards come in from T&T sometime this week, I'll be trying a Herald of Chaos. Will have to wait and see how well that goes, but no matter what, it's always more fun building and playing my own decks.

TLDR - screw tiers, have fun

[kaibaman76]

IMO you run what makes u happy and whatever works for your deck..Pot of duality does not work for every deck in fact it can sometimes hurt you more than it helps you, its best served for a deck that does little to no Special Summoning, plus its extremely expensive and budget players wont spend top dollar on it and are reluctant to trade for it b/c ppl will want u to give up the farm for it...if u feel u need to spend money on it I say go for it,but if its not a huge need for your deck u can survive on 1 or none