Book 7 Question (Spoilers)

[redshift71388]

Near the end of the book, Harry is hit with a Killing Curse by Lord Voldemort in the Forbidden Forest but he isn't killed; he only gets knocked unconscious and the piece of Riddle's soul inside Harry is destroyed. Relating to this, I need a bit of clarification. Did Harry survive because Voldemort used his blood for his own resurrection, and as Dumbledore stated this meant he couldn't be killed as long as Voldemort was alive? Or was this because Harry was, at the time, the Elder Wand's master and it refused to harm him?

If it's the first reason, wouldn't Harry have also survived if he had been hit by the curse in the Ministry of Magic, thereby removing the need for Dumbledore to have saved him by enchanting the golden statue to block the curse? Or any time Voldemort attacked him since the scene at the graveyard, for that matter. But if it's the second reason, what was the whole point to that revelation regarding the use of Harry's blood in Voldemort's resurrection, and the "gleam of triumph" in Dumbledore's eyes at the end of Book 4?

Also, after Harry is "killed" in the forest, Voldemort uses the Cruciatus Curse on him but he feels no pain. Why was that, exactly? The blood reason or the Elder Wand reason?

[Hollow Golem]

Near the end of the book, Harry is hit with a Killing Curse by Lord Voldemort in the Forbidden Forest but he isn't killed; he only gets knocked unconscious and the piece of Riddle's soul inside Harry is destroyed. Relating to this, I need a bit of clarification. Did Harry survive because Voldemort used his blood for his own resurrection, and as Dumbledore stated this meant he couldn't be killed as long as Voldemort was alive? Or was this because Harry was, at the time, the Elder Wand's master and it refused to harm him?

If it's the first reason, wouldn't Harry have also survived if he had been hit by the curse in the Ministry of Magic, thereby removing the need for Dumbledore to have saved him by enchanting the golden statue to block the curse? Or any time Voldemort attacked him since the scene at the graveyard, for that matter. But if it's the second reason, what was the whole point to that revelation regarding the use of Harry's blood in Voldemort's resurrection, and the "gleam of triumph" in Dumbledore's eyes at the end of Book 4?

Also, after Harry is "killed" in the forest, Voldemort uses the Cruciatus Curse on him but he feels no pain. Why was that, exactly? The blood reason or the Elder Wand reason?

It's all in the prophecy. The prophecy dictated the proper time that it had to happen, so when it happened was the right time. You are right why it didn't work, but it was all the right timing dictated by the prophecy.

The Crucio didn't work because the Elder Wand refused to hurt it's master. He wasn't the master until after Voldemort hit him with the first Killing Curse right before, because Voldemort was still inside of him.

[redshift71388]

It's all in the prophecy. The prophecy dictated the proper time that it had to happen, so when it happened was the right time. You are right why it didn't work, but it was all the right timing dictated by the prophecy.
But the prophecy simply dictated that one had to kill the other. This could have happened in the graveyard, the Ministry, over Privet Drive or in Godric's Hollow (in Book 7). There was no mention in it of when it had to happen or under what circumstances.

So then, theoretically, if Voldemort had hit Harry any of those times with Avada Kedavra, then he would have just shrugged it off each time?

[Hollow Golem]

But the prophecy simply dictated that one had to kill the other. This could have happened in the graveyard, the Ministry, over Privet Drive or in Godric's Hollow (in Book 7). There was no mention in it of when it had to happen or under what circumstances.

So then, theoretically, if Voldemort had hit Harry any of those times with Avada Kedavra, then he would have just shrugged it off each time?

You're looking at it all wrong. It happened when it had to happen, due to the prophecy. It didn't happen earlier and NEVER would have happened earlier simply because that was not the right time. There are no what-if's because it simply had to happen the way it did.

[redshift71388]

Well what I'm asking is, why was it not the "right time"? There was never anything in the books indicating that there was a right time or place for the final battle to happen, story-wise.

[Ryuzo Kiai]

Near the end of the book, Harry is hit with a Killing Curse by Lord Voldemort in the Forbidden Forest but he isn't killed; he only gets knocked unconscious and the piece of Riddle's soul inside Harry is destroyed. Relating to this, I need a bit of clarification. Did Harry survive because Voldemort used his blood for his own resurrection, and as Dumbledore stated this meant he couldn't be killed as long as Voldemort was alive? Or was this because Harry was, at the time, the Elder Wand's master and it refused to harm him?

If it's the first reason, wouldn't Harry have also survived if he had been hit by the curse in the Ministry of Magic, thereby removing the need for Dumbledore to have saved him by enchanting the golden statue to block the curse? Or any time Voldemort attacked him since the scene at the graveyard, for that matter. But if it's the second reason, what was the whole point to that revelation regarding the use of Harry's blood in Voldemort's resurrection, and the "gleam of triumph" in Dumbledore's eyes at the end of Book 4?

Also, after Harry is "killed" in the forest, Voldemort uses the Cruciatus Curse on him but he feels no pain. Why was that, exactly? The blood reason or the Elder Wand reason?

#1. Harry was one of the 7 Horcruxes. Voldemort killed off the Horcrux, not Harry. Therefore, Harry was spared again.

#2. Harry DID feel pain. If you reread it, it states that it took everything Harry had in order not to flinch and give away that he was still alive.

[redshift71388]

#1. Harry was one of the 7 Horcruxes. Voldemort killed off the Horcrux, not Harry. Therefore, Harry was spared again.
Harry still would have died if it weren't for one of the two reasons I stated, and the piece of Riddle's soul inside him would have died along with him. When Nagini was killed, she herself died with Riddle's soul fragment simultaneously. If soul-harboring living things could use those soul fragments as initial buffers against death like that, Voldemort wouldn't have given Nagini magical protection once he knew she was in danger.

#2. Harry DID feel pain. If you reread it, it states that it took everything Harry had in order not to flinch and give away that he was still alive.
Not quite:He was lifted into the air, and it took all his determination to remain limp, yet the pain did not come.So he was trying to remain limp not because he felt pain, but because he was being tossed around.

[Ryuzo Kiai]

Well, if anything, the blood had nothing to do with it. I assure you. That was to only be used in the 4th book so Voldemort could touch Harry without getting hurt.

As for the pain, ok, so I made a mistake. I knew it took him everything he had not to give away that he was still alive.

And Nagini died because her head was chopped off...But, you might be right at the fact that the wand could not turn on its master. I forgot that Voldemort was using that wand at the time.

[redshift71388]

Well, if anything, the blood had nothing to do with it. I assure you. That was to only be used in the 4th book so Voldemort could touch Harry without getting hurt.
And yet it had something to do with the seventh book, because there was that "gleam in Dumbledore's eye" that Harry had seen when telling him about the graveyard, because he knew what that meant for Harry. In the King's Cross chapter (where Harry met Dumbledore's spirit), Dumbledore tells Harry that using his blood meant Voldemort had the same protection Harry had from his mother, but since Harry had a bit of Voldemort's soul inside him, he was protected as well as long as Voldemort remained alive.

[Hollow Golem]

And yet it had something to do with the seventh book, because there was that "gleam in Dumbledore's eye" that Harry had seen when telling him about the graveyard, because he knew what that meant for Harry. In the King's Cross chapter (where Harry met Dumbledore's spirit), Dumbledore tells Harry that using his blood meant Voldemort had the same protection Harry had from his mother, but since Harry had a bit of Voldemort's soul inside him, he was protected as well as long as Voldemort remained alive.

Which is why he didn't die when hit with the curse. It happened at that time simply because it happened at that time. Asking the question, "Why didn't it happen earlier" is exceedingly pointless because it simply did not happen earlier. With the themes of fate and prophecy in the book, you can say that what happened happened and it happened for a reason, and leave it at that.

As I stated before, the Elder Wand refused to carry out the full Crucio effect on Harry.

[grim mouser]

Hm, I don't think so... There seems to be something deeper involved.

"SILENCE!" cried Voldemort, and there was a bang and a flash of bright light, and silence was forced upon them all. ... "He beat you!" yelled Ron, and the charm broke, and the defenders of Hogwarts were shouting and screaming again until a second, more powerful bang extinguished their voices once more.

"I'll join you when hell freezes over," said Neville. "Dumbledore's Army!" he shouted, and there was an answering cheer from the crowd, whom Voldemort's Silencing Charm seemed unable to hold.

From these passages, it seems Voldemort's magic is less potent/unable to do as it should in general. This leads me to believe that the issue is not necessarily the Elder Wand refusing to act against its master.

[Masterdramon]

Hm, I don't think so... There seems to be something deeper involved.





From these passages, it seems Voldemort's magic is less potent/unable to do as it should in general. This leads me to believe that the issue is not necessarily the Elder Wand refusing to act against its master.
Harry renders Voldemort's magic impotent because of his sacrifice. Just as Lily sacrificed herself for Harry and thus protected him through love, Harry's attempted sacrifice for the residents of Hogwarts protects them from Voldemort's magic. So his Silencing Charms and the Full-Body Bind that he places on Neville all disappear after a little while.

As for the blood, Dumbledore states at "King's Cross" that it effectively doubled the bond between Harry and Voldemort. Part of Voldemort was in Harry (his soul) and part of Harry was in Voldemort (his blood), tying their fates together more completely than can be comprehended. It was the combination of all of this, plus the Elder Wand's allegiance, that allowed Harry to resolve.

J.K. Rowling has stated that she doesn't see the process as scientific, i.e. if the exact same situation occurred again, Harry might not have survived. It was the fact that Harry's mind was set into sacrificing himself for the good of all that tipped the scales in his favor and that allowed him to, miraculously, rise again.

[grim mouser]

That makes sense now. In a magical sort of way. xD

[AirUpThere]

The ending is really confusing but you guys do a great job of explaining it. Thanks a bunch!