Pokemon HeartGold and SoulSilver Confirmed!

[HuntikChamp]

I am very happy to announce that Pokemon Gold and Silver are being remade!!!!!! Pokemon HeartGold and SoulSilver!!!!!! These games come out in the Fall in Japan!!!!!!

[fr0zN]

SoulSilver sounds nice, I dont like HeartGold though.

[Steel]

Man this is amazing. I have been playing my Silver and its been so great. I cant wait for this

[Erick20]

YUP cant wait check out it out.
http://gonintendo.com/?p=81780

and for those that can read Japanese.
http://www.pokemon.co.jp/info/game/g090508_01.html

[B. Rock]

Nothing can make me happier than what I am feeling right now. :)

[hisoka]

This is AWESOME!!! Can't wait for it to come to the states

[dabom88]

You don't need to be able to read Japanese, just be able to use Google Translate:

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pokemon.co.jp%2Finfo%2Fgame%2Fg 090508_01.html&sl=ja&tl=en&history_state0=

[ProtoZero X5]

So it is basically a remake of both Gold and Silver; very nice.

[Near]

Heart Gold?
Soul Silver?

Goddamn, men.

P.S - Now that it is official, it's time to discuss specifics.
I'm hoping for FR/LG-esque extra like the Sevii Islands. Of course, a legit chance to get Celebi would also be mind blowing.

[grenmajuman]

There's only one appropriate response to this news:

**** yeah, Seaking!

:)

[Lord Satan]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There finally remaking the best Pokemon games ever! I hope they make it so we can go to all the other countries and get there badges and compete against there Pokemon leagues. Oh and maybe a battle frontier or 3 would be nice. And the ability to catch Hoen and Sinnoh Pokemon before beating the E4.

[shineyaltaria]

This is also being discussed in the G/S/C forum, as Flamewarp posted about it on 5/5:

http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=697184

[Killer_Nacho]

I...cant...wait!!

Someone Make Time Go Faster... These Games Were Easily The Best Pokemon Games Of All Time. Personally, I Don't Hope They Change Them Much, They Were Epic As Is.

[Itsuki]

Doesn't this mean it will come out in 2010 for the U.S? Damn. I don't want to wait. =/

I actually like the names since I do like feminine sounding stuff. lol

P.S - Now that it is official, it's time to discuss specifics.
I'm hoping for FR/LG-esque extra like the Sevii Islands. Of course, a legit chance to get Celebi would also be mind blowing.


This would be awesome. I'm hoping for this.

I'd like the PRNG of Heart Gold and Soul Silver to change and not be like D/P/Pt's PRNG so no abuse on legends. =D Although it would be awesome to get awesome Celebi.

I hope it still has Wi-Fi. Pretty sure it will.

Plus ExtremeSpeed Dratini should come back...finally Dragonite won't be overshadowed...That's Crystal though right?

[HuntikChamp]

Doesn't this mean it will come out in 2010 for the U.S? Damn. I don't want to wait. =/

I actually like the names since I do like feminine sounding stuff. lol



This would be awesome. I'm hoping for this.

I'd like the PRNG of Heart Gold and Soul Silver to change and not be like D/P/Pt's PRNG so no abuse on legends. =D Although it would be awesome to get awesome Celebi.

I hope it still has Wi-Fi. Pretty sure it will.

Plus ExtremeSpeed Dratini should come back...finally Dragonite won't be overshadowed...That's Crystal though right?

I don't want to wait, either. At least we know the games are coming though.

[Itsuki]

I don't want to wait, either. At least we know the games are coming though.

Yeah this is the part that sucks about Pokemon games waiting. =p

I might get it in Japanese but problem is I can't read it. lol

[Killer_Nacho]

Plus ExtremeSpeed Dratini should come back...finally Dragonite won't be overshadowed...That's Crystal though right?

Yeah, that's Crystal. Hopefully they still include it though. Would be nice to have something else to separate Dragonite from Salamence.

[Shatter]

This is going to be awesome. I just really hope they include a legit way to get Celebi.

[Erick20]

I hope this is the 5th regeneration of some new pokemos even dough is a remake of silver and gold.

[Shatter]

I hope this is the 5th regeneration of some new pokemos even dough is a remake of silver and gold.

I really don't see this happening. They will probably find a way to get some 3rd and 4th gen Pokemon into the game, like with the Sevii Islands in FireRed/LeafGreen. I don't see any new Pokemon until the 5th gen actually comes out.

What do you guys want to see added to the games?

I like the idea of keeping the Poketch and it's applications, some of which are very helpful (like the marking map for tracking legnedaries would be great for the 3 Dogs).

I also like the idea of adding more to the game similar to the FireRed/LeafGreen Sevii Islands, like Near suggested.

[Killer_Nacho]

Regarding the Poketech, I think they will find a way to make the PokeGear act like the PokeTech. I think the PokeGear will act in much the same way as the PokeTech in D/P, but of course with the features of the Gear included with the features of the Tech, like the Radio.

[IceCreamFairy]

I hope they keep the game storyline similar to that in Crystal version, which was the best out of all three.

Also, legit celebi is definately happening. Nintendo will easily be able to distribute the GS ball through wifi

[[IXI] Doma [IXI]]

Everyone, prepare to fatten thy wallets.

[Lord Satan]

Doma [IXI];13267559']
Everyone, prepare to fatten thy wallets.


:mad: Dont mention wallets to me. I'm still mad that my Xbox died 2 days ago. Now I have to shell out the cash for a new one.

Still cant wait for the new games. Its going to be fun.:)

[Killer_Nacho]

Anyone else have a bad feeling that this game will only be the Johto region, with Kanto removed?

I hope they don't remove Kanto, but I just have this strange feeling...

[hisoka]

Hopefully they won't take out the kanto sub quest thingy (or whatever its called). That's what practically made GSC so awesome. The ability to travel to those 2 places was just great for the game.

I'm also betting on an updated version of Team Rocket's theme song. An easy to obtain Celebi would be nice.

[Shatter]

Anyone else have a bad feeling that this game will only be the Johto region, with Kanto removed?

I hope they don't remove Kanto, but I just have this strange feeling...

I've been having the same feeling. I really hope they don't take the Kanto quest out of the game, I really enjoyed being able to go back and battle those gyms when they were stronger.

If they do take it out I really hope that they replace it with something cool. I liked the Sevii Islands in FireRed/ LeafGreen but maybe something with a better story behind it?

[Mysticfruit]

My favorite generation is being remade finally. I am soooo following this thing day by day until it comes out.

Celebi should be easy to obtain, right? Like Mew in FR/LG.
Oh wait.

[Shatter]

I hope that if there is not a way to catch Celebi in game that they will have an event over WiFi, or at Toys-R-Us to give one away. Maybe to celebrate the release :)

[cyberdragonking]

it would be soooo good if you can go to other regoins and get all the other badges like in gold and silver.
and i can get a ho-oh
to bad we will have to wait a long time. but meanwhile there ia always platinum to look forword to.

[Killer_Nacho]

My guess is that the GS Ball will end up being a Wi-fi event sooner or later. Some predictions that I have for this game:

- Lugia and Ho-Oh will be moved to version exclusives. In the originals, they were limited to not being able to obtain their signature move in the opposite version (Scared Fire for Ho-oh, Aeroblast for Lugia)... plus they'll want to get more sales, this move makes sense to me.

- There will be a new side-quest like the Sevi islands. I have a bad feeling that this side quest will replace Kanto, but I hope not.

- Either the cell phones will be added to the Poketech, or the Pokegear will act like the Poketech did in D/P/P.

- Curse and elemental punch move tutors! Epic win!

- Of the gym leaders in Gold and Silver, some of the prize TMs no longer exist. This is Falkner, Bugsy, Chuck, Pryce, and Clair. I believe that they will be replaced by:

Falkner - Maybe Roost? Aerial Ace seems too powerful at this point in the game.

Bugsy - U-Turn makes sense here (a toolbox bug type move, like Fury Cutter), but maybe Silver Wind or X-Scissor... although those two might be too powerful for that point in the game, too.

Chuck - Focus Punch, most likely. Seems like the right candidate to replace Dynamicpunch.

Pryce - Probably Avalanche, but there is an outside chance it could be Blizzard.

Clair - Dragon Pulse seems to be the logical choice to replace Dragonbreath.

Whitney (Attract), Morty (Shadow Ball), and Jasmine (Iron Tail) will all most likely retain their TM moves.

- The game will use Gold/Silver plot and most of the features will resemble Gold/Silver, but there may be some things from Crystal added (like the Battle Tower). Don't expect the Battle Frontier, though.

- The game should be probably be slightly expanded. Lance's Dragonite maxs at level 50, what? That's more than 10 levels lower then his Dragonite in Red/Blue/Yellow!

Everyone else's thoughts?

[Shatter]

My guess is that the GS Ball will end up being a Wi-fi event sooner or later. Some predictions that I have for this game:

- Lugia and Ho-Oh will be moved to version exclusives. In the originals, they were limited to not being able to obtain their signature move in the opposite version (Scared Fire for Ho-oh, Aeroblast for Lugia)... plus they'll want to get more sales, this move makes sense to me.

I agree with this. it makes sense to make them version exclusive, although I would like it if they weren't :)

- There will be a new side-quest like the Sevi islands. I have a bad feeling that this side quest will replace Kanto, but I hope not.

- Either the cell phones will be added to the Poketech, or the Pokegear will act like the Poketech did in D/P/P.

I think that the Pokegear will replace the Poketch, but I will not be surprised if they added Pokegear applications like the phone to the Poketch.

- Curse and elemental punch move tutors! Epic win!

This would be awesome but I'm not counting on it.

- Of the gym leaders in Gold and Silver, some of the prize TMs no longer exist. This is Falkner, Bugsy, Chuck, Pryce, and Clair. I believe that they will be replaced by:

Falkner - Maybe Roost? Aerial Ace seems too powerful at this point in the game.

Bugsy - U-Turn makes sense here (a toolbox bug type move, like Fury Cutter), but maybe Silver Wind or X-Scissor... although those two might be too powerful for that point in the game, too.

Chuck - Focus Punch, most likely. Seems like the right candidate to replace Dynamicpunch.

Pryce - Probably Avalanche, but there is an outside chance it could be Blizzard.

Clair - Dragon Pulse seems to be the logical choice to replace Dragonbreath.

Whitney (Attract), Morty (Shadow Ball), and Jasmine (Iron Tail) will all most likely retain their TM moves.

I think most of your TM replacements are accurate, but Ice Beam might be another outside shot for Pryce

- The game will use Gold/Silver plot and most of the features will resemble Gold/Silver, but there may be some things from Crystal added (like the Battle Tower). Don't expect the Battle Frontier, though.

I expect there to be a battle tower added in, but I don't think there will be a whole Frontier.

- The game should be probably be slightly expanded. Lance's Dragonite maxs at level 50, what? That's more than 10 levels lower then his Dragonite in Red/Blue/Yellow!

I imagine that if they do not have the Kanto side quest that the gyms and Elite Four will receive some serious upgrades in power.

Everyone else's thoughts?

Thoughts in bold.

[Killer_Nacho]

If they do have the Kanto side-quest, I hope more development will be put into them. I wouldn't mind if they re-vamped the side-quest all-together. After all, due to GBC cartridge size restraints, they were not able to give the Kanto sidequest much attention at all. But they should easily be able to make the region more interesting in the DS version.

I wouldn't mind Johto staying the same if Kanto wasn't so pathetic and easy.

[redshift71388]

Oh YES! [/Herbal Essences]

This is amazing news! Generation II was definitely my favorite series of all time. I can't wait to play these! I wonder what kind of changes they will make to them. Now that I think into it, there were a lot of items in the originals that don't exist anymore. Kurt's special Poké Balls come to mind. If these games have connectivity to the current games, there will need to be some adjustments.

What else... I'm sure there will be some Hoenn Legendary Pokémon in here as well. I wouldn't be surprised if Latios or Latias were obtainable, as Articuno, Zapdos and Moltres are in Platinum. Maybe the games will have an updated Battle Frontier as well. New move tutors would be nice too, even though Platinum's additions are already great. The Gym Leaders would give out new TMs as well. My guesses would be Roost replacing Mud-Slap, Silver Wind replacing Fury Cutter, Focus Punch replacing DynamicPunch, Avalanche replacing Icy Wind and Dragon Pulse replacing DragonBreath.

As far as Crystal goes, I'm sure these games will stick to the Gold/Silver storyline. I doubt Suicune will have such an important role, nor will Eusine appear. But I hope they still keep the general improvements Crystal had, like the already-mentioned Battle Tower and the Dratini with ExtremeSpeed.

I'm definitely getting HeartGold if I can only get one. Ho-Oh is one my favorite Legendary Pokémon. Oh man, this is going to be sweet...

[Xonmeän]

I'm... so damn disappointed. It was my honest hope that Gold and Silver would not get remade, mainly just to spite the blind fanboys who kept raving on and on about how Gold and Silver were the best generation of Pokemon when the reality is that from an objective perspective that is anything but.

Being that it is now official--and as such inevitable--that a remake will happen, I hope that Gamefreak takes the time to fix as many of the problems that Gold and Silver had as possible.

Sigh... I'm probably the only person on these forums that actually was hoping that there wouldn't be a remake...

[redshift71388]

I'm... so damn disappointed. It was my honest hope that Gold and Silver would not get remade, mainly just to spite the blind fanboys who kept raving on and on about how Gold and Silver were the best generation of Pokemon when the reality is that from an objective perspective that is anything but.

Being that it is now official--and as such inevitable--that a remake will happen, I hope that Gamefreak takes the time to fix as many of the problems that Gold and Silver had as possible.

Sigh... I'm probably the only person on these forums that actually was hoping that there wouldn't be a remake...
Wow, that's your only reason? It makes you sound like a malicious jerk. People are entitled to have favorites, and no one is making you so much as glance at them at a video game store. If it makes no difference to you, why try to sound like you wish to punish everyone else for having a different opinion than you?

[Killer_Nacho]

I'm... so damn disappointed. It was my honest hope that Gold and Silver would not get remade, mainly just to spite the blind fanboys who kept raving on and on about how Gold and Silver were the best generation of Pokemon when the reality is that from an objective perspective that is anything but.

Being that it is now official--and as such inevitable--that a remake will happen, I hope that Gamefreak takes the time to fix as many of the problems that Gold and Silver had as possible.

Sigh... I'm probably the only person on these forums that actually was hoping that there wouldn't be a remake...

What did you dislike about Gold and Silver? It was the last Pokemon game to not have a one-player mode that wasn't completely boring. Gen III and Gen IV... sucked, plain and simple. I rushed through them just to get to the end.

[Xonmeän]

What did you dislike about Gold and Silver? It was the last Pokemon game to not have a one-player mode that wasn't completely boring. Gen III and Gen IV... sucked, plain and simple. I rushed through them just to get to the end.

I disagree with that whole notion of the one-player mode not being boring. Actually, I consider G/S to have the least rounded and least polished single player mode of all the Pokemon games. Johto was underwhelming as a region and way too linear, the revisited Kanto was *******ized, and the levels of all ingame trainers and wild Pokemon were unbalanced (my biggest complaint. Honestly, this game had the weakest Elite 4 and "final" boss area to date).

Now, this being said I don't think G/S/C were bad games. Anything but. These games introduced several staple game mechanics that I wouldn't want to see removed from any Pokemon game (breeding, day/night, move tutors, battle tower, etc.). I just don't think that they were nearly as great as so many people seem convinced they were. As a child I was obsessive about that generation, but now that I've grown and can view things from an objective point of view, I can see that most of the fondness for these games is not for their overall quality, but for the nostalgia.

[Killer_Nacho]

I disagree with that whole notion of the one-player mode not being boring. Actually, I consider G/S to have the least rounded and least polished single player mode of all the Pokemon games. Johto was underwhelming as a region and way too linear, the revisited Kanto was *******ized, and the levels of all ingame trainers and wild Pokemon were unbalanced (my biggest complaint. Honestly, this game had the weakest Elite 4 and "final" boss area to date).

Now, this being said I don't think G/S/C were bad games. Anything but. These games introduced several staple game mechanics that I wouldn't want to see removed from any Pokemon game (breeding, day/night, move tutors, battle tower, etc.). I just don't think that they were nearly as great as so many people seem convinced they were. As a child I was obsessive about that generation, but now that I've grown and can view things from an objective point of view, I can see that most of the fondness for these games is not for their overall quality, but for the nostalgia.

I dont really care why I like these games. The fact of the matter is I find it a drag to complete RSE or DPP. They are the most boring games in the world for me. All I know is when I pick up GS or C, I can't put it down. I'm completely addicted. Something was lost in RSE and DPP. I don't know if its newfangled features or me being nostalgic, I don't know. All I know is that I'm going to whole-heartedly enjoy these remakes. I have played GSC and RBY a grand total of 17 playthroughs. Can't get enough of them. I completed RSE twice, and DPP twice, and I hated it each time. Even when it was the first time. The games simply aren't fun. I don't know why.

Back on topic, some pics released:
http://serebii.net/heartgoldsoulsilver/pics.shtml

Looks like Pokemon following you is back (or maybe its just for the beginning part). I really hope there is a way to disable this "feature" though.

[Xonmeän]

I dont really care why I like these games. The fact of the matter is I find it a drag to complete RSE or DPP. They are the most boring games in the world for me. All I know is when I pick up GS or C, I can't put it down. I'm completely addicted. Something was lost in RSE and DPP. I don't know if its newfangled features or me being nostalgic, I don't know. All I know is that I'm going to whole-heartedly enjoy these remakes. I have played GSC and RBY a grand total of 17 playthroughs. Can't get enough of them. I completed RSE twice, and DPP twice, and I hated it each time. Even when it was the first time. The games simply aren't fun. I don't know why.

Maybe it was the music? I don't know, something about the G/S/C era music has stuck with me moreso than any other generation (save the trainer, gym, and champion themes from the original games). The G/S/C rival music is easily one of the greatest, and definitely deserves to get a hard rock or metal remix.

Well, at least there's that to look forward to with these games. The remixes of the old music. The Lake of Rage overworld theme should be good.

[Killer_Nacho]

Maybe it was the music? I don't know, something about the G/S/C era music has stuck with me moreso than any other generation (save the trainer, gym, and champion themes from the original games). The G/S/C rival music is easily one of the greatest, and definitely deserves to get a hard rock or metal remix.

Well, at least there's that to look forward to with these games. The remixes of the old music. The Lake of Rage overworld theme should be good.

Hehe, I love the music of GSC too. I don't know if that it is though, sometimes I have to play with the game muted and I still enjoy it. Although the music WAS so much better in GSC then RSEDPP

[grim mouser]

Of course, a legit chance to get Celebi would also be mind blowing.


THIS.

This is also being discussed in the G/S/C forum, as Flamewarp posted about it on 5/5:

http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=697184

I think we'll need new forums... Unless this section is going to be DPPtHGSS? Sounds like a disease.

Plus ExtremeSpeed Dratini should come back...finally Dragonite won't be overshadowed...That's Crystal though right?

Yeah, but I sure hope so.

Lance's Dragonite maxs at level 50, what? That's more than 10 levels lower then his Dragonite in Red/Blue/Yellow.

I think you're forgetting that Kanto succeeded the E4/Champion. Nintendo made Kanto's Leaders have higher levels than Lance did.

[Killer_Nacho]

THIS.



I think we'll need new forums... Unless this section is going to be DPPtHGSS? Sounds like a disease.



Yeah, but I sure hope so.



I think you're forgetting that Kanto succeeded the E4/Champion. Nintendo made Kanto's Leaders have higher levels than Lance did.

Actually, only Blue had higher levels then Lance I believe.

[grim mouser]

I looked into my old Nintendo guide (LOL), and I think you're right. Blaine had some level 50 Rapidash, but I didn't see anything going over 50.

Good memories = lies? =O

[Near]

I'm... so damn disappointed. It was my honest hope that Gold and Silver would not get remade, mainly just to spite the blind fanboys who kept raving on and on about how Gold and Silver were the best generation of Pokemon when the reality is that from an objective perspective that is anything but.

Being that it is now official--and as such inevitable--that a remake will happen, I hope that Gamefreak takes the time to fix as many of the problems that Gold and Silver had as possible.

Sigh... I'm probably the only person on these forums that actually was hoping that there wouldn't be a remake...
Well, first paragraph is unbelievably selfish.

Second, you mentioned how G/S had a "weak single player".
The fact is, none of your complaints hold any real water.

Linearity is something Pokemon has -always- had.
Unless you think being able to do ONE GYM before another makes something suddenly NOT linear...
Fact is, it's a JRPG, what could it be BUT linear?
[AND, finally, I think G/S/C's kanto was actually the most non-linear thing the series has ever seen]

About the levels... For starters, levels are always measured in comparison.
The game's difficulty was just as challenging as the other ones, [save for more intelligent A.I that was developed later on] because the all around low level in Johto made your Pokemon equally as low leveled.

Besides, counting Kanto, the levels were even above the other games by the last gym.

Aside from 16 badges double area stuffy, there's original stuff that hasn't made it back.
The bug contest, headbutting trees, catching both version's legendaries NOT canonicaly and in an actual dungeon of sort, specific time Pokemon, unique gym types - the list goes on.
As for new concepts that were since re-used, I need not list them - Running legendaries, breeding, move eraser - you know the drill.

However, the games were flawned. Kanto wasn't half what it could have been, there was no Safari, [Bug contest doesn't count as a replacement] and whatever else.

TL;DR - Hating on something because it's popular to the point of being against a remake to piss off its fan doesn't make you cool.
If you would like to name a game with a better single player than G/S/C, go ahead.
As it stands, however, Ru/Sa/E mainly focused on competitive battling, and D/P tried to top G/S/C's single player, and for some has, while also maintaing some competitive battling focus.

However, G/S/C's fans like it for its originality, and doing things first.
Also, the second generation might have just been the best, maybe tied with the first, making the games all the more interesting.



Back on topic, some pics released:
http://serebii.net/heartgoldsoulsilver/pics.shtml

Looks like Pokemon following you is back (or maybe its just for the beginning part). I really hope there is a way to disable this "feature" though.
I wonder what happens if they evolve..?

I like that feature, it's really neat. Gold looks great, too.

[grim mouser]

Likely, a sprite was developed for each evolution. Hard to see a mini-Typhlosion tagging along with you, though.

[Xonmeän]

Oh my, Near has called me out. This shall be fun.

Well, first paragraph is unbelievably selfish.

Yes, yes it is. Quite frankly, I don't care. The reason I was so disgruntled over the announcement of Gold and Silver remakes was because I was wrong, plain and simple. I have been saying, for as long as I've cared to develop an opinion on it, that Gold and Silver would not, and should not, be remade. I was wrong, it's being remade. As we all know, there's not a single person on this planet that likes to be wrong. I was just a little less than humble about being wrong here.

I'm not going to apologize for that, so this isn't a topic even worth discussion.

Second, you mentioned how G/S had a "weak single player".
The fact is, none of your complaints hold any real water.

Linearity is something Pokemon has -always- had.
Unless you think being able to do ONE GYM before another makes something suddenly NOT linear...
Fact is, it's a JRPG, what could it be BUT linear?
[AND, finally, I think G/S/C's kanto was actually the most non-linear thing the series has ever seen]Point taken. All Pokemon games are linear. However, I was not a fan of Gold and Silver's map design. It felt somehow empty and unfinished, I can't quite find the words for it. I found the design of the region was rather uninspired compared to the following regions. Yes, I'm saying that I found Hoenn and Sinnoh to be much more interesting regions than Johto.

Linear was perhaps the wrong word to use.

As for G/S/C's Kanto, perhaps it was the most non-linear but it was gutted in comparison to R/B/Y. Yes, you could say that was due to time constraints or data constraints, but I don't see why either of those should have a problem. Returning to Kanto was nothing more than a gimmick to try and lengthen gameplay time. I'd much rather have one region done well, than two regions half assed.

About the levels... For starters, levels are always measured in comparison.
The game's difficulty was just as challenging as the other ones, [save for more intelligent A.I that was developed later on] because the all around low level in Johto made your Pokemon equally as low leveled.

Besides, counting Kanto, the levels were even above the other games by the last gym.Difficulty and challenge are both sorely lacking when it comes to Pokemon games, but as far as calling G/S/C just as challenging as the others, I have to disagree. Because of the comparably lower levels, the difficulty is much lower. Even when rushing through the game, it takes an effort to keep your levels that much lower than the ingame trainers. While you could say this is also true of other Pokemon games, it is moreso true here.

Furthermore the levels contradict continuity. A somewhat minor point, but still, why are Lance's Pokemon weaker than in Red and Blue? The story is set three years following Red and Blue, where is the consistency? His Pokemon should be stronger, not weaker.

While I do think it by -far- had the most fleshed out single player. [Original concepts that were new back then or that were since removed]

Aside from 16 badges double area stuffy, there's original stuff that hasn't made it back.
The bug contest, headbutting trees, catching both version's legendaries NOT canonicaly and in an actual dungeon of sort, specific time Pokemon, unique gym types - the list goes on.
As for new concepts that were since re-used, I need not list them - Running legendaries, breeding, move eraser - you know the drill.As you already stated, the Bug Contest was G/S/C's substitute for the Safari Zone, so technically speaking that has been reused. Headbutting trees was unimportant, an okay touch, but nothing special. I agree that Pokemon games should have more dungeons of sorts, but I don't see what you're getting at with the "non canonical" legendaries thing. Are you saying that the newer games were weaker for having included the staple legendaries as a part of the core storyline? But look at Emerald, there's not a single legendary there that's "caught canonically". And "unique gym types"? When there's only 17 types to begin with it's inevitable that they will begin to repeat themselves. I don't see what your point is with that.

None of these touches were groundbreaking, they were just nice touches.

TL;DR - Hating on something because it's popular to the point of being against a remake to piss off its fan doesn't make you cool.
If you would like to name a game with a better single player than G/S/C, go ahead.
As it stands, however, Ru/Sa/E mainly focused on competitive battling, and D/P tried to top G/S/C's single player, and for some has, while also maintaing some competitive battling focus.

However, G/S/C's fans like it for its originality, and doing things first.
Also, the second generation might have just been the best, maybe tied with the first, making the games all the more interesting.I think you misunderstand something, I am not hating on the game. I am hating on the people who argue this game as the greatest creation since the wheel. I am hating on the, and check my original post, blind fanboys. Blind fanboys, or course, referring to those annoying members of the Pokemon community who flame and attack someone simply because he doesn't view Pokemon Gold and Silver as the second coming of Christ.

You have never come across to me as one of those, and you still don't. I just want it understood that I am angry at a very specific portion of a very large community.

I am not attacking the games. I am not attacking the people who enjoy the games. In fact, I do like Gold and Silver, and I am replaying Crystal right now for nostalgia's sake. But that's all it's for, nostalgia. The Gold and Silver era were innovative in that they introduced a ton of new ideas into the Pokemon world. The main problem is that they were trying to focus on too many things at once, and as a result the ideas ended up unpolished, and some were even abandoned, while others weren't perfected until generations later.

Gold and Silver are far from being the best games in the series.

[grim mouser]

Most of that is subjective.

[Killer_Nacho]

Well pretty much everything said about the subject will be subjective since the base question is subjective, "Is Gold and Silver your favorite Pokemon game?"

Any answers would be an opinion. I actually really liked the bug-catching contest, perhaps more so than the Safari Zone. But that may be because I liked catching Scyther so early in the game =P

[grim mouser]

Haha, I honestly didn't know there WAS a base question. xD

[Xonmeän]

Most of that is subjective.

I agree. Trying to stay somewhat within the topic at hand, which is the Gold and Silver remakes, there's hardly room for anything but the subjective. My main point is that Gold and Silver are not the best Pokemon game. The only way to make that argument unbiased, and the only way to argue against it unbiased, is to compare the content of Gold and Silver to the content of each individual generation of Pokemon. That would take a rather large bit of time and effort.

Who here is actually willing to go through all that effort with me?

Additional Comment:

Well pretty much everything said about the subject will be subjective since the base question is subjective, "Is Gold and Silver your favorite Pokemon game?"

Any answers would be an opinion. I actually really liked the bug-catching contest, perhaps more so than the Safari Zone. But that may be because I liked catching Scyther so early in the game =P
Whoops, beat me to it. xD

[grim mouser]

I simply think the remake is a good idea for a few reasons:

1) Nintendo gains profit... fairly obvious.

2) People who loved GSC will be happy.
(Aside: People who did not love GSC will be indifferent; they don't need to buy the new game[s].)

3) Possibly, Celebi and other things most areas have missed out on.

[Killer_Nacho]

I agree. Trying to stay somewhat within the topic at hand, which is the Gold and Silver remakes, there's hardly room for anything but the subjective. My main point is that Gold and Silver are not the best Pokemon game. The only way to make that argument unbiased, and the only way to argue against it unbiased, is to compare the content of Gold and Silver to the content of each individual generation of Pokemon. That would take a rather bit of time and effort.

Who here is actually willing to go through all that effort with me?

I would argue that content does not actually make a great game. Some games are so bloated with content that the amount of content actually ruins the game in my opinion. Especially with Pokemon, I want a game that is simple yet in-depth, entertaining yet challenging, and have that certain elusive charm that makes it so addictive.

I don't care to have a game with a billion features, a long story mode or a complicated plot. A long game that isn't fun becomes annoying, not enjoyable. I'd much rather have a short yet fun campaign. I just want a good Pokemon game, damn it!

[Xonmeän]

Hmm, damn me and my poor wording. I should have specified the "quality of content".

Well, here's a couple of my high hopes then... that will likely be smash when more of this game is revealed.

1. Level spikes for ingame trainers and wild Pokemon, including gym leaders and the elite 4.

2. Kick-ass remixes of my favorite G/S/C music. Champion theme, I'm looking at you.

3. Catchable Celebi... like everyone else is hoping for.

[Blue Sea Dragoon]

Oh, I didn't notice this thread.

I am so pumped for this game! Love the new Sugimori art.

Also, the fact that the starter follows you around. But somehow I think this will only last until Silver breaks into the lab and steals the starter. I'm guessing then your starter will go into its Pokeball.

Another thing is how the wind seems to blow in New Bark Town. It gives actual meaning to "The Town Where the Winds of a New Beginning Blow".

And notice the staircase in the Professor's lab? I wonder what's in the new second floor...

[Killer_Nacho]

I'm hoping for an expansion of the Kanto sidequest. They couldn't make it very much in the originals due to size of the GBC carteridge, but they could make it so much more epic this time around. I would rather see an expanded Kanto than a stupid Sevii island-like sidequest added.

[redshift71388]

I am so pumped for this game! Love the new Sugimori art.
Say...what? There's new Sugimori art??

*hunts*

[Soldier of Obelisk]

Time to save up 70 USD for spring 09 or less if they have that game guide deal.
I wonder what the pre-order item is going to be?
A figure of ho-oh and lugia battling?

[Blue Sea Dragoon]

Say...what? There's new Sugimori art??

*hunts*

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/72/yush.gif (http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/72/yush.gif)

[redshift71388]

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/72/yush.gif (http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/72/yush.gif)
I have to say.. Cyndaquil's looks almost the same, but I love Totodile's new pose.

[Exo]

I agree. The new art looks awesome.

[Blue Sea Dragoon]

Speaking of art, I'm really looking forward to the Gym Leader's artwork. In G/S/C, we only got a headshot of them.

Now we could get full body artwork, the pixel art, and the animated sprites.

[Killer_Nacho]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq9Xt3FJH80

A video of Pokemon Sunday announcement. You can see the screenshots on Serebii in action there, and well as listen to the remixed music for New Bark Town, which sounds great IMO! Also the wind blowing through New Bark town is a neat effect, so make sure you pay attention to it.

[Near]

I'm not going to apologize for that, so this isn't a topic even worth discussion.

Ironic coming from someone who just typed a pargraph about it as a reply to my five words sentence.

Point taken. All Pokemon games are linear. However, I was not a fan of Gold and Silver's map design. It felt somehow empty and unfinished, I can't quite find the words for it. I found the design of the region was rather uninspired compared to the following regions. Yes, I'm saying that I found Hoenn and Sinnoh to be much more interesting regions than Johto.

This isn't a way to argue. When you argue with someone, you explain.
The fact is, I can summarize this pargraph as "I didn't like it because of something I can't explain and it was less of something I can't give examples of than Ru/Sa/D/P".

I agree about Kanto being empty, hollow, a shadow of a region.
But Johto? Didn't I just list a lot of awesome, unique activities there?

I may concede that Platinum is more interesting as a region than Johto, but Hoenn?
Srsly?

Linear was perhaps the wrong word to use.
Indeed.


As for G/S/C's Kanto, perhaps it was the most non-linear but it was gutted in comparison to R/B/Y. Yes, you could say that was due to time constraints or data constraints, but I don't see why either of those should have a problem. Returning to Kanto was nothing more than a gimmick to try and lengthen gameplay time. I'd much rather have one region done well, than two regions half assed.

Except Johto was far, far from half-assed, as I explained earlier.
They didn't cut on the caves or dungeons or whatever like in Kanto, far from it.
Kanto was a small bonus, but Johto was just on par with modern regions and easily beat out the old Kanto from R/B/Y.

Difficulty and challenge are both sorely lacking when it comes to Pokemon games, but as far as calling G/S/C just as challenging as the others, I have to disagree. Because of the comparably lower levels, the difficulty is much lower. Even when rushing through the game, it takes an effort to keep your levels that much lower than the ingame trainers. While you could say this is also true of other Pokemon games, it is moreso true here.

This is actually where you puzzle me.
If memory serves [And it serves here] in every one of my runs through G/S/C where I did not grind, up until the league my levels were pretty much lower or on par.
My starter barely hit the 50s by Lance, actually.

But actually, I may have to hand this one to you.
At least compared to D/P/P, I think G/S/C was kinda easy. But this is something the remake is likely to fix.


Furthermore the levels contradict continuity. A somewhat minor point, but still, why are Lance's Pokemon weaker than in Red and Blue? The story is set three years following Red and Blue, where is the consistency? His Pokemon should be stronger, not weaker.
Did you just complain about the continuity of the story of a Pokemon game?
Quite frankly, if this is one of your biggest complaint about G/S/C...

As you already stated, the Bug Contest was G/S/C's substitute for the Safari Zone, so technically speaking that has been reused. Headbutting trees was unimportant, an okay touch, but nothing special. I agree that Pokemon games should have more dungeons of sorts, but I don't see what you're getting at with the "non canonical" legendaries thing. Are you saying that the newer games were weaker for having included the staple legendaries as a part of the core storyline? But look at Emerald, there's not a single legendary there that's "caught canonically". And "unique gym types"? When there's only 17 types to begin with it's inevitable that they will begin to repeat themselves. I don't see what your point is with that.

None of these touches were groundbreaking, they were just nice touches.
Actually, that's exactly my point. Those were all nice touches that make the region that much different from others.
Not to mention, what is your idea of a groundbreaking touch?
One that you could claim was unique to Ru/Sa or D/P?

And remember, we're strictly speaking of single player here, not competitive battling.

And yes, that's what I'm saying about the legendaries.
I'm saying a dungeon beforehand, like for Ho-oh and Lugia is the way they should've gone.

Lastly, about the types part - I found G/S/C to have the most interesting mixture of them.
Compare that to Ru/Sa or D/P's reusal of older types for the third time in some cases... Boring.



I am not attacking the games. I am not attacking the people who enjoy the games. In fact, I do like Gold and Silver, and I am replaying Crystal right now for nostalgia's sake. But that's all it's for, nostalgia. The Gold and Silver era were innovative in that they introduced a ton of new ideas into the Pokemon world. The main problem is that they were trying to focus on too many things at once, and as a result the ideas ended up unpolished, and some were even abandoned, while others weren't perfected until generations later.

That's fine, except that I'm interested in showing you why G/S/C had the best single player.
Besides, your wishing for it not happen because you dislike its fans pissed me off.



TL;DR - You seem kinda shooting down happy, but I'm more interested in hearing what single player YOU found to be the best, and what it had over G/S/C.

[grim mouser]

Time to save up 70 USD for spring 09 or less if they have that game guide deal.

For collecting? Serebii will have all the info you need, and you can find walkthroughs on GameFAQs.

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/72/yush.gif (http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/72/yush.gif)

Ooh, pretty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq9Xt3FJH80

A video of Pokemon Sunday announcement. You can see the screenshots on Serebii in action there, and well as listen to the remixed music for New Bark Town, which sounds great IMO! Also the wind blowing through New Bark town is a neat effect, so make sure you pay attention to it.

Neat. I hope the wind will have variable directions and stuff.

[Near]

So what's the official thread? Or are we getting a new board?

Anyway, watched the Sunday Show announcement thing.
The music was awesome.

[grim mouser]

There isn't an official thread. Want me to make one?

We'll probably need to add a new board. As I said, DPPtHGSS just won't do.

[pfaithful]

well i'm pretty excited about the remakes. i wonder if there will be pokemon from 3 and 4th generation in it? i saw the video and the pictures i am getting so excited! when is it coming out in the us?

[grim mouser]

Probably in 2010. I made a discussion thread for this until Pojo adds a gossip forum (like there was for Platinum).

http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=699017

[Xonmeän]

TL;DR - You seem kinda shooting down happy, but I'm more interested in hearing what single player YOU found to be the best, and what it had over G/S/C.
I will start off by stating that I did read through that entire post, and I commend you for shooting down my subjective argument. You are absolutely right, I was shooting down happy. So, I will skip the pointless nitpicking and skip directly to this, which single player I found to be the best, and why.

The short answer for me is that the best overall single player experience is the current generation, Diamond, Pearl, and Platinum.

Each generation of Pokemon expanded upon, and improved upon the others. As such I consider the quality of the games to improve with each new game.

The original Pokemon games were great for their time, and just addictive enough to keep me coming back again and again. Because I'd like to keep this somewhat brief, I think I'll minimalize talking about the originals since I believe it goes without saying that the first generation layed the groundwork for the rest of the series. Since it was the original, it was the most unpolished, there are more gamebreaking (quite literally) in-game glitches in the original games than any of the others, and the battle system on a competitive level was considerably less expansive, and more "broken" in that several moves did not work the way they were intended. The first games are the equivalent of a Pokemon beta.

Now, we have already established several of the improvements that G/S/C made. It included 100 new Pokemon, fixed many of the problems with the battle system by reworking certain moves, adding new moves, and adding two new types to balance out the as-of-then omnipotent Psychic type. On a competitive standpoint, G/S/C was a massive improvement, despite it gravitating toward a more stall-based environment.

The in-game journey of G/S/C was expanded to include a second region, although through a combination of time and memory constraints that second region was nothing more than a watered down easter egg in comparison to the rest of the game.

There were several staples to the series added in G/S/C, such as Day/Night, gender and breeding, shiny Pokemon, Pokerus, trainer rematches, move tutors, the move deleter, and the battle tower among other minor touches. However, since the majority of these returned in subsequent Pokemon games, the only point that G/S/C has for any of these is that it did them "first". While that point is true, having done something first does not automatically make something better, it only means that it did it first. From here on the only thing that can improve is the quality of these features, and each generation more or less improved them.

Moving on. We were given 6 large "dungeon" like areas, as you stated; the Whirl Islands, the Tin Tower, the Dark Cave, Mt. Mortar, Union Cave, and the Ice Path. Unfortunately, only two of these "dungeons" yielded anything significant. The Whirl Islands gave us Lugia, and the Tin Tower gave us Ho-oh, but Dark Cave only gave us the Darkglasses, and Mt. Mortar only gave us Tyrogue (this is, of course, not taking into account any new wild Pokemon found in these areas. I am only focusing on the "reward" for the dungeons). Furthermore, only two of these areas are required to pass through to beat the game, and of those two you only briefly pass through one, and aren't required to ever return. This all came at the cost of a greatly watered down Victory Road, which could no longer be called a "dungeon", consisting only of the rival battle. While it is should not be necessary for the player to have to pass through all in-game "dungeons", there really should be more required of the player to beat the game than this.

Now, with all of that in mind yes, G/S/C were very expansive, so how was R/S/E an improvement?

The first, most obvious, and least relevant to the quality of the gameplay are the graphics. I'm not going to argue that graphics make quality since I hold the opposite stance, but in all honesty it can never hurt, and is always a plus to any game to look nicer than its previous incarnations. Second, the battle system became still more refined, and from a competitive standpoint R/S/E is arguably the most balanced game out of any Pokemon generation.

We were introduced to several new mechanics, and several old mechanics were either redone or abandoned. The EV and IV systems were given overhauls from their previous incarnations, which resulted in added depth to the competitive front, and that gender and shinyness no longer relied on IVs, making breeding much easier, and making shiny Pokemon rarer, and as such more sentimentally valuable. Abilities and Natures were also added, which improved several aspect of the games including deeper competitive battles, easier breeding, and a more developed system of actually finding and catching Pokemon. We were given several new items. We were given a slightly improved system of trainer rematches (which was perfected the same gen in Firered and Leafgreen via the VS Seeker). Double battles were introduced, as were contests, and of course, the Battle Frontier. There were, as always, new Pokemon, new moves, etc.

Now, from many players' perspectives this wasn't that big a change from G/S/C. The core battle system was practically the same, and by this point a series of games was expected. But, what most people payed attention to was not what was added, but what was taken away. Gone from R/S/E was the Day/Night system, gone was Team Rocket, gone (for a while) were several older Pokemon, gone was the second region, and gone (thanks to the new IV/EV system) was the ability to trade with the older games. This led to several people denouncing R/S/E as the worst gen in the series. And, although I consider this generation superior to G/S/C, I have my complaints as well. The map had a considerable portion of it devoted to surf, and there were only two "dungeons", Meteor Falls and Victory Road, although Meteor Falls hardly qualifies as one. Thankfully the third gen's Victory Road was one of the most challenging in the series, especially in Platinum. Finally, the rival was pathetic, and compared to the previous rivals was a letdown.

But from an objective point of view, this game was still superior. From a competitive standpoint it had a great many new options, and from an in-game standpoint the "story" was considerably more polished, the challenge was better much in part to stronger gyms and better AI, and the Battle Frontier led to hours upon hours of actually challenging gameplay. From here it gets subjective. I found the third gen Pokemon to be interesting in design, and as a whole useful than the Pokemon introduced in the previous gen. I liked that it was one full region than two half regions. If I were to include Firered and Leafgreen into this generation, which technically they were, then I can further argue the quality of those games, as they did an admirable job re-imagining the original games.

This has gotten much longer than I anticipated... and I don't have much time left to finish writing, so I'll just sum up D/P/Pt.

The Day/Night mechanic returned, more moves/Pokemon/etc were added, although it's arguable whether the moves added benefited the competitive front. We obtained access to nearly all missing Pokemon. There were more things to do post Elite 4. Not to mention Wifi which is the best thing to ever happen to a Pokemon game, and is what brought me here in the first place. Oh, I want to go on but I'm out of time here.

Since this is so massive I'll summarize my point since I didn't have enough time to nail it down.

TL,DR: In terms of content each generation of Pokemon is superior to the last. The only thing that separates the generations is intangible and unarguable, the "spirit" and "charm" of the individual games. Each game has a different feel to it, and G/S/C has nostalgia on top of the other charm the game had. Being the followup to the massively popular R/B/Y set the bar for G/S/C, and the sheer amount of content it introduced made enough of an impact on the minds of children everywhere that everything following, despite how much more improved or polished it may be, could not compare.

However, I now look at games in terms of the quality of their content, trying to suspend as much bias as possible. As a child, I would have, without a doubt, said that G/S/C was the best experience, but now that I am more objective in my viewpoints, I would have to say that I find the current generation the superior Pokemon experience.

[redshift71388]

There's an official thread now...

[Killer_Nacho]

That was quite well thought out, Xon, and I read through all of it. Yes, talking about content and features, each generation did outclass the last. Of course that can be expected with any game series.

While it is subjective, what it comes down to for me is what I enjoy playing. I don't understand why you want to remove bias from the mix of evaluating gameplay? It seems that you are trying to evaluate games apart from the one thing that is really important: Is the game fun?

In my opinion, G/S/C were the most fun games. Like I said, I don't know why. And it probably has something to do with it being so massively superior to R/B/Y mixed with nostalgia. But the fact that I found G/S/C to be my favorites is reason enough that I am happy with this remake. I've actually tried to think about what makes me so sick to my stomach when playing through R/S/E/D/P/P and I've come to the conclusion that it is the Pokemon themselves. Quite simply, I don't really like any of them. This may be me being old-school, but the quality of Pokemon design has gone downhill IMO. Nearly all of my favorites (except for Cradily, who is epic win no matter what) is 1st or 2nd gen Pokemon or new evolutions of them. I really hate the Hoenn starters and Shinou starters overall, they were either boring or too flashy. And a game's expirience really dwindles when you don't like the things you are using. I love building different G/S/C teams during different playthroughs, I can't stand doing it in R/S/E/D/P/P!... But I dont think that's the only thing. We'll have to see if SS/HG will peak my interest as much as the originals did.

[Lil Yugi]

Finally, the rival was pathetic, and compared to the previous rivals was a letdown.

Well, to be fair, Wally could be considered the "true" rival of the third generation, which I thought was a pretty neat twist.

Anyway, generation II was my favorite, like many others here. The thing I enjoyed most about it was battling Red at the end. His Snorlax was a beast!. lol Hopefully they give him the Elite 4 "Second Wave" treatment from FR/LG and give him a more powerful team with newer pokemon after the national dex is obtained.

It's too bad the Red Gyarados won't be as powerful in this game as it originally was, since shiny pokemon doesn't mean perfect IVs anymore.

[Xonmeän]

It's too bad the Red Gyarados won't be as powerful in this game as it originally was, since shiny pokemon doesn't mean perfect IVs anymore.

Shiny Pokemon in G/S/C never meant perfect IVs, in fact, shinies in G/S/C had incredibly subpar IVs.

In G/S/C to be Shiny a Pokemon had to have a Speed, Defense, Sp.Attack, and Sp.Defense IV of 10, and an Attack IV of either 2, 3, 6, 7, 10, 11, 14 or 15. This, by today's IV standards, translates to about 20 IVs across the board.

[Lil Yugi]

Oh, really? I guess I was mis-informed. lawl

[grim mouser]

There's an official thread now...

I'm going to go ahead and close this one up. I hope I'm not unintentionally getting rid of information. =X

Edit: Reopened at request. Will remain open until current discussions are complete.

[Xonmeän]

Thanks grim. I look forward to Near's response.

[p0k3mast3r]

W0000t!!! its finally confirmed!!! Yay!! Ive been waiting for these games to come out forever!!

[Solemn_Party]

That was quite well thought out, Xon, and I read through all of it. Yes, talking about content and features, each generation did outclass the last. Of course that can be expected with any game series.

While it is subjective, what it comes down to for me is what I enjoy playing. I don't understand why you want to remove bias from the mix of evaluating gameplay? It seems that you are trying to evaluate games apart from the one thing that is really important: Is the game fun?

In my opinion, G/S/C were the most fun games. Like I said, I don't know why. And it probably has something to do with it being so massively superior to R/B/Y mixed with nostalgia. But the fact that I found G/S/C to be my favorites is reason enough that I am happy with this remake. I've actually tried to think about what makes me so sick to my stomach when playing through R/S/E/D/P/P and I've come to the conclusion that it is the Pokemon themselves. Quite simply, I don't really like any of them. This may be me being old-school, but the quality of Pokemon design has gone downhill IMO. Nearly all of my favorites (except for Cradily, who is epic win no matter what) is 1st or 2nd gen Pokemon or new evolutions of them. I really hate the Hoenn starters and Shinou starters overall, they were either boring or too flashy. And a game's expirience really dwindles when you don't like the things you are using. I love building different G/S/C teams during different playthroughs, I can't stand doing it in R/S/E/D/P/P!... But I dont think that's the only thing. We'll have to see if SS/HG will peak my interest as much as the originals did.

I have to agree; Pokemon has gone down hill as far as most pokemon are considered (Though I agree, Cradily is epic win, and so is Swampert).

[+Fallen+]

Its not out, lmao^^^