View Full Version : Help a New-Comer
A bunch of my ygo friends and I have decided to start playing VS System, and I need some questions answered to help us get started in the right direction... Where I live, Marvel is brand new to the area and we are without tournies, experts, rulings, starterdecks, and DC origins... please help!
1. What is a good character-plot twist-location ratio for a 60 card deck?
2. What decks are winning tournies right now? (team)
3. What is the most affordable and effective deck type?
4. How many of each "drop" should there be in each deck? (i.e. 4x drop 1's, etc.)
5. What deck types should I stay away from?
6. What are some gamebreaking cards that most decks use?
7. What are the current "staples"?
8. What mistakes, as far as deck-construction, do you see many beginners make?
I do realize that for some of the questions, the answers depend on the meta, decktype, and availability of funds...If you can at least answer just one question, I'll be happy... thanks for helping me out!
docstar7
07-22-2004, 08:31 AM
1. What is a good character-plot twist-location ratio for a 60 card deck?
Check this post. (http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=54948) There really isn't a good answer to this. around 30 character, 30 other is a good start.
2. What decks are winning tournies right now? (team)
Honestly, with Marvel, Brotherhood is most played as it's the easiet to play. But only really X-men are unplayable in top level games. Sentinels aren't bad, but you have to know how to play them.
3. What is the most affordable and effective deck type?
Check this post. (http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=56319)
4. How many of each "drop" should there be in each deck? (i.e. 4x drop 1's, etc.)
This one is totally dependednt on the deck. With Doom and Fantastic Four, you've got way of searching for certain characters, so you wouldn't need as many of each drop. Basically, 1's aren't important other than for effects. I try to keep it prety evenly set up though, with the most emphasis on turns 4 and 5. If I was going 30 characters in a generic build, I'd go somethin like
0-1, 4-2, 5-3, 6-4, 5-5, 4-6, 4-7, 2-8. But again, it just depends on the deck you are playing.
5. What deck types should I stay away from?
There really aren't any decks out there that are just horrible. X-men are fun, but they have yet to win anything at all as far as big tournies go. And I would not recommend try to build a Sentinel deck that follows the curve.
6. What are some gamebreaking cards that most decks use?
The way the game is designed, there aren't any staples. There are cards that you have to use if you are going with a certain team, but as far as something that every deck should have, I'd say you should be running either relocation or kaboom. that's about it, but there are a few decks out there that don't even run those.
7. What are the current "staples"?
Like I said, this game doens't have staples. Don't think of this game like yugioh, as it's nothing like it.
8. What mistakes, as far as deck-construction, do you see many beginners make?
Having to much of a static curve, running like 4 of every drop. Running too many single copies of cards. odds aren't good for drawing 1 card out of 60 during a game. And the biggest issue is new players running the big drops. The majority of games don't last past turn 7. Doom decks stall early, so they can last until 9 sometimes. and the only time I've ever seen a game go to 10+ games was in Domm stall vs Doom stall matchups. Basically, Dark Phoenix looks like fun, but don't put her in your deck.
Wow, this VS game just keeps getting better.. a Holo in every pack, at least 1 rare, 14 cards, and all for $3 for 1/e and $2 for unlimited! ... now I don't have to blow $45 to get a card I need! This is great! Thanks a bunch Docstar, you've been a HUGE help! and you are right, I've been playing ygo too long..
I have a few more questions
1. Which set is more competive? DC or Marvel, and which would you buy?
2. Are equips good?
3. Is it bad to run drop 1's?
4. Are cards like dark phoenix, onslaught, and the drop 8 magneto playable?
5. What are some plot twists that many decks run?
6. Are all deck types evenly powered?
Thanks for any q's answered... you don't know how many people you are helping ^_^...
docstar7
07-22-2004, 10:31 AM
1. Which set is more competive? DC or Marvel, and which would you buy?
No one really know yet, since DC doens't beceom tournament legal until August 1st. Initial Impression is that they will be roughly evenly matched overall. I would recommned buying more Marvel than DC to start. Marvel has more cards to get, is the easier set to use and learn with.
2. Are equips good?
In constructed games, there's really only a couple of decks that run equips. Fantastic Four is designed to use equips, hence the Fantastic Four equip decks. Basically, FF equip decks use the FF team equips, fantasticar and The Pogo plane. As far as the other equips, they are killer in draft, but you can usually find something better for constructed.
3. Is it bad to run drop 1's?
I'm not saying it's bad to run 1 drops, it just depedns on what you are trying to do. Brotherhood generally stays away from one drops, as they aren't really going to give you any advantage. Doom runs Boris for his effect. Certain FF decks run Invisible woman to use Four Freedoms Plaza. You can use 1's, but once you satrt playing you'll find that more often than not, you aren't going to draw them in you're opening hand, so you'll never use them.
The exception to this is swarm decks, like Wild Vomit Sentinel, which is built using roughly 20-25 1 drop sentinels, trying to get as many out as possible to pump the Sentinel Mark IV's once they get out.
4. Are cards like dark phoenix, onslaught, and the drop 8 magneto playable?
Dark Phoenix really isn't playable. Onsluaght is a huge beast that ends games, but not many games go to turn 9. If you want to play Onsluaght, you're going to need to build a deck that is meant to last that long. Doom Gamma Bomb decks are that deck, but they are very hit or miss. the 8 drop team characters aren't bad. Magneto is certainly playable in Big Brotherhood. Even if the game doens't go to turn 8, he's still a power-up for the other two Magnetos.
5. What are some plot twists that many decks run?
Like I said, the majority of decks should be running wither Relocation or KaBoom. Other than that, it's a choice to whther your playing agressive or defensive. for aggressive decks, Savage Beatdown and Flying Kick are good. For more defense, go with Burn Rubber and Acrobatic Dodge. Overload also seems to make it's way into many decks.
When DC becomes legal, Have a Blast will be widely used, and Kaboom will be far less used. MegaBlast will also be a good card for aggressive decks.
looking over the top 8 decks list from the two major events from Origins this year, Savage Beatdown was in 13 of the 16 decks.
6. Are all deck types evenly powered?
For the most part, it's a very balanced game. Like I said, X-Men is a bit underpowerd right now, but they are still good, just not great. They lend themselves to team-ups very well. Brotherhood has a couple different types of decks that are good. Doom is a good deck, but harder to play. more of a conrotl type deck. FF is in my opnion the most versatile. They can run the equip deck, a burn deck, or a beatdown deck. they also team with doom very well.
For DC, I don't have a clue. IU haven't built anything yet, so I don't know how many of them play. Every team has a very appealing aspect to them, but personally I'm going to try and find a way to abuse Neutron with the Fearsome Five. but that's just me.
ygoplayer21
07-22-2004, 12:09 PM
1. What is a good character-plot twist-location ratio for a 60 card deck?
As the link Docstar7 provided you with, there's no one set ratio, like Yu-Gi-Oh!, that you need to keep in mind when building a deck. Some decks are very location heavy, other decks are very plot twist heavy. In fact, I'd say that's where the biggest difference comes in. If most decks stay around 30 characters (and I agree that that's a pretty accurate guess), then the biggest variance in decks is "are there a lot of locations or very few to none at all. My Brotherhood deck runs 12 locations, my Doom deck runs 4 or 8 depending on which build I go to, my Fantastic Four runs none or 4, depending which version I'm playing, and My new DC deck runs only 3.
2. What decks are winning tournies right now? (team)
Brotherhood
Doom
Fantastic Four
Common Enemy (Doom+F4)
are probably the hottest Marvel deck types.
Brotherhood is the beatdown deck.
Doom is the control deck.
Fantastic Four is either beatdown or burn.
Common Enemy is a control/beat deck.
3. What is the most affordable and effective deck type?
That's where the problem starts. Sentinel is probably the cheapest, but I would say it's the least effective (other than X-Men) tournament quality deck. I don't think Doom has to be too expensive...but it sure can be.
Marvel Origins didn't lend itself too well to being one thing or the other. Brotherhood is one of the most effective and most expensive...X-Men and Sentinel are among the most affordable, but the least effective. I think Doom and F4 fall somewhere in the middle, but even then, can be really expensive.
4. How many of each "drop" should there be in each deck? (i.e. 4x drop 1's, etc.)
Again, deck dependent.
My "New Brotherhood" deck runs nothing beyond a 5 drop. I have zero 1 drops, and eight of each drop 2-5...for 32 characters total.
Any other deck is going to have a vastly different curve than mine. Most decks play few or no one drops, with a few of everything else up to 7 or 8. The curve should probably be the highest in the mid drops, as you're more likely to spend your time hitting those. Four and five drops are very important in just about all decks.
5. What deck types should I stay away from?
Qood question...Sentinel is fun but extremely hard...and because it's highly dependent on a couple of army commons and uncommons, it's very hard to build for being so ineffective. X-Men is just really lackluster. Not worth playing, unfortunately. That could VERY WELL CHANGE with future sets, though.
6. What are some gamebreaking cards that most decks use?
The closest things might be the plot twists that are available to all decks.
Some top choices might include:
Savage Beatdown
Flying Kick
Not So Fast
Overload
Acrobatic Dodge
Burn Rubber
7. What are the current "staples"?
It doesn't look like this will be a "staple" game. It's not Yu-Gi-Oh!, fortunately. However, look no further than the list I just gave for cards that will see a lot of play, and you will want to be familiar with.
8. What mistakes, as far as deck-construction, do you see many beginners make?
Just stuff that will correct itself as a person plays and loses enough to realize what they're doing wrong. I have been playing Brotherhood since the beginning of Marvel Origins and my deck has changed its shape so many times its not even funny. Fortunately, though, it's always for the better. The more practice I get, the more I realize what works, what doesn't, in what quantity a card needs to be run, how often do I see the cards I really need, and on and on and on. Practice really does make perfect in this game. Though it helps to have access to lots of different cards. Personally, I have at least 4 of every card in Marvel Origins, so I'm pretty much set for whatever direction I need to go.
9. Which set is more competive? DC or Marvel, and which would you buy?
Because DC is not tournament legal, I have yet to grasp how it will do in tournament play, which is a completely different atmosphere than casual play. Based on my casual play, I'd say they're both relatively competitive with each other. What DC lacks in raw, brute strength, it makes up for nicely in combos. What Marvel lacks in combos, it makes up for with sheer power. That's not to say you won't find brute strength in DC or combos in Marvel...it just means we'll need time to tell exactly how everything works together.
10. Are equips good?
Were they good in Yu-Gi-Oh!? No. However, they're bad for a different reason in this game. In Yu-Gi-Oh!, you don't run an equip, because you don't want your guy to attack theirs, then have them MST your equip, so now you're not strong enough to kill them, and you've just suicided your dude.
In this game, equips are bad because a lot of them require your resource points to recruit. Dual Sidearms and Jetpack are pretty good for 0 cost, but they're just not as good as stuff like Fantasticar, which has a recruit cost of 1. I'd avoid equips in anything but F4 burn.
11. Is it bad to run drop 1's?
Not by any means. Boris is an amazing one drop. Ant Man is pretty good, too. However, they take up deck space, and if you miss them on turn 1, you're going to force yourself to miss a drop later if you ever want to get one out. Furthermore, that spot could be devoted to something that might actually win you a game, instead. All you'd lose would be a character with 1/1 (or so) stats. Big deal.
12. Are cards like dark phoenix, onslaught, and the drop 8 magneto playable?
Dark Phoenix and Onslaught are pretty unplayable. Granted, it's game over if they get out, they're just too high to ever hope to play. Games will almost never go to turn 9, even against a devoted stall deck.
Furthermore, if you're going to play an 8 drop, Apocalypse is the way to go. Absolutely broken.
13. What are some plot twists that many decks run?
Please see question 6.
DC, however, introduced Mega-Blast and Have A Blast!. Both of which are likely to see a great deal of play.
14. Are all deck types evenly powered?
I wish they were, but they're not.
If you want to remain competitive, stick with the deck types given in question 2.
With a skilled enough player, the right deck and a good amount of luck, any team can be a winner. The better teams just make it that much easier, though.
Alright thanks... Your guys' answers are really helping me out... I have just a few more questions
1. Is the Xmen and Brotherhood starterdeck good?
2. What cards do you get from it that are useful?
3. I guess I made the mistake of running an xmen deck early on (there are no experts or anyone to tell me its not that good), but I was wondering what cards you would use in an xmen deck?
4. Which xmen cards would you stay away from?
5. is nasty surprise a good temprorary replacement for savage beatdown?
6. Why aren't sentinels good?
Thanks for all your answers... there aren't anyone xperts or marvel tournaments where I live and I need to get all the information I can.. thanks for any answers given!
docstar7
07-23-2004, 08:33 AM
1. Is the Xmen and Brotherhood starterdeck good?
Well, I haven't had a chance to pick up a DC Starter, so I don't know about that one, but the X-Men one is better than the Spiderman one, simply becasue you cen get cards to support the X-Men one. The Brotherhood is the better team in the deck though.
2. What cards do you get from it that are useful?
You know, I've got no idea anymore what's even in there. There are some good plot twists, and a couple characters that aren't so bad. I think.
3. I guess I made the mistake of running an xmen deck early on (there are no experts or anyone to tell me its not that good), but I was wondering what cards you would use in an xmen deck?
Cyclops:Slim is a very good 2 drop. the 3 drop Wolverine has to be in there. at 4 you've got a couple choices. Gambit isn't bad. Nightcrawler is my pick though. I'd run 4 nightcrawler, 2 gambit. 5 is where it gets trickey. Professor X and Cyclops have the same stats, but ther are both weak. Cyclops is a little better due to his effect though, I think. at 6 Rougue is the better choice, and at 7 I've found that anymore Wolverine isn't great, just too weak. Profeesor X at 7 is just beastly. I'd run him.
For plot twists, with the X-men card, Children of the Atom is the only good one. Locations, Danger Room won't hurt, Cerebro is almost a must, and muir island and the school fit into certain builds.
4. Which xmen cards would you stay away from?
There really aren't any horrible cards. I really don't see a point to using forge in an x-men deck, but if you run equips there's no reason not to use him. the 5 drop Wolverine is not very good. low stats, not so great effect. just run one of the other 5's instead. and I don't like x-corp. Not enough bang for the cost.
5. is nasty surprise a good temprorary replacement for savage beatdown?
Nasty Surprise really is a defensive card, while Savage Beat is offensive, so it rally can't be a replacement. Flying Kick would be a good replacement.
6. Why aren't sentinels good?
It's not that they aren't any good, it's just that they are a bit hard to play. No one has tried to make a sentinel deck that fits the curve, playing all the drops. I'm sure you could do it, but no one has. The dominant build of sentinels is Wild Vomit, and that's kind of a luck deck. Basically, you use Longshot to draw as much as you can. and Longshot can be luck at times. If you don't hit with Longshot, you've got nothing to play.
hmm.. I'm trying to think of some more question to ask since everyone I know are beginners
1. When deck-building, what is the most important thing to keep in mind?
2. Some characters say "when this character is attacked, exhaust target character"... how does this work?
3. I was thinking of making a skrull deck (I just got 3 super skrulls)... what are some ideas or combos with this kind of deck? How should this kind of deck be played?
4. In a sentinel deck, what are some key cards? What is the focus a sentinel deck?
5. I was wondering which of the following decks are strong or weak against the others....
Brotherhood
Doom
F4
Sentinel
Skrull
vBulletin®, Copyright ©2000-2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.