solution to secret rare problem

[taylor2007]

ude looks at these websites u dont want secret rares to be good cards shut ur mouths. am i right

[scen]

... what? secret rares are the hardest cards to get sso why would we want the cards we need to be them? uMad?

[heero]

ude looks at these websites u dont want secret rares to be good cards shut ur mouths. am i right
Do you honestly think that UDE/Konami has no idea that a card might be really good? I don't think they sit and have this discussion:

Konami Rep: Dark Armed Dragon is a rare
Kevin Tewart: I don't know those people on Pojo said that it is a good card and they are talking a lot about it.
Konami Rep: <checks internet> Holy crap you're right they are talking about it. Make it a secret rare, that will teach them!!!
Kevin Tewart: Indeed!!

[ZanyBB]

heres a solution -when a good card is in a set dont keep tallking about it and then it will be afforadble for all
ex-dark armed dragon

[DFLOOD]

heroo that is funny

[El Zorro]

Yeah you are right.We are hyping the card so they make it secret.If we were like OMG COELCANATH IS COMING they would make it a secret

[golden]

but secret rarez r teh shineez. Cards look better in secret rare therefore most good cards need to be secret rare. That's the best logic I can come up with.

[Aarikku]

Hm...

OMG Jinzo Lord is teh brokenz! Did u c that Youtoob vid wher teh gai beet teh other gai wit it?

I hope I never do that again.

[DFLOOD]

but why did they make belial a secret then

[slypher2005]

Konami Rep: Dark Armed Dragon is a rare
Kevin Tewart: I don't know those people on Pojo said that it is a good card and they are talking a lot about it.
Konami Rep: <checks internet> Holy crap you're right they are talking about it. Make it a secret rare, that will teach them!!!
Kevin Tewart: Indeed!!

LMAO@/\!!!!!

[Clear1]

dousing their headquarters with gasoline and set it on fire will teach them good.

No more Secret Rares, it's dumb.

[SSj2TeenGohan184]

Just stop making a big deal about it.

[DFLOOD]

dousing their headquarters with gasoline and set it on fire will teach them good.

No more Secret Rares, it's dumb.

**** noob.

[golden]

Just stop making a big deal about it.

I looked at your sig. U mad?

[Random_Hero]

but secret rarez r teh shineez. Cards look better in secret rare
I duno... Ultra rares are prettier imo.

[taylor2007]

thats what im talking about

[Clear1]

**** noob.

yeah, since you LOVE $250 Necrofaces, $100 Soul Takers, $100 Dark Zeratos and $250 DaD.

[El Zorro]

but why did they make belial a secret then

gil garth told them so

[Eywind]

yeah, since you LOVE $250 Necrofaces, $100 Soul Takers, $100 Dark Zeratos and $250 DaD.

DLZ is 100 now?

Anyways, I just think that people should realize that this is a hobby and they have to pay for good stuff sometimes. Get over it.

[Clear1]

gil garth told them so

yeah, why DID they make Gil Garth a secret.
All of these points to one solution.

UDE and Konami hates you.

UDE is too full of themselves, and Konami is too stupid to make balanced cards for once in their life.

[hiei_yasha]

It'd be nice if there were just 2 secrets per set like in the old days. Hell, even if there were like 4, that'd be reasonable. Lower the pulling ratio to like 1:48 if they "must", but I'd rather have a 1:192 chance of pulling a particular secret I wanted, rather than the 1:300 like it is with PTDN.

[DFLOOD]

we call the asians the stupid ones eh. Damn racists im 1/4 asian

[Zekido]

Gil Garth is secret because it is teh ubar brokenzzz!!!21!123!
Just think what would happen if WE ALL HAD GIL GARTH!!!1

*Starts thinking*

[DFLOOD]

Gil Garth is secret because it is teh ubar brokenzzz!!!21!123!
Just think what would happen if WE ALL HAD GIL GARTH!!!1

*Starts thinking*

we could make the expensive version of vanilla beatdown.

[scen]

DLZ is 100 now?

Anyways, I just think that people should realize that this is a hobby and they have to pay for good stuff sometimes. Get over it.

dlz is at 100 now... its incredibly annoying.

yeah we have to pay but if they didn't make so many secret rares then it would stop ruining it for people who cant afford that much (and dont want to play an anti that deck). i mean if they made it a bit cheaper then more people could buy them and it would make up the difference. if dark armed was a super they still would've sold out. people would still be complaining but at least it wouldn't be about how they cant afford 1 card.

[El Zorro]

we could make the expensive version of vanilla beatdown.

EvIl plan I have to say:eek:

[DFLOOD]

dlz is at 100 now... its incredibly annoying.

yeah we have to pay but if they didn't make so many secret rares then it would stop ruining it for people who cant afford that much (and dont want to play an anti that deck). i mean if they made it a bit cheaper then more people could buy them and it would make up the difference. if dark armed was a super they still would've sold out. people would still be complaining but at least it wouldn't be about how they cant afford 1 card.

you remember raiza right

[NERDstar]

DLZ is $100 now? Good thing I traded my 2 Dark Bribes and UR Solemn Judgment for one. :D Anyways, since there's like 10 Secret Rares of each set so far, look at how many people are buying these packs.

Buying packs are like drugs and UDE are the drug dealers. :eek:

^I know someone is gonna quote this.

[delpos]

In the end, it's either you get it as secret rare or you don't get it at all.

In that case, I'll take the secret rare, then. =/
At least then, there's a slim chance I can get it normally... (then sell it :P)

[WoW_God]

Alot of UDE people need to get a life. They don't understand people have bills to pay.

[(Tofu)]

ive got an idea
lets all start another thread talking about all the frog cards in LoTD and maybe UDE wil waste all the secrets on those ******ed frogs!

[Beastly_Gladiator]

So do you want some cheese with your whine or do you want to grow up and be a big boy/girl and realize that nice things cost money. I can't believe there are people who think that not hyping a card would prevent it from becoming a Secret Rare. Just to rationalize what that would imply:

A person working for Upper Deck entertainment whose JOB it is to know the game enough to be able to pick out the cards that would be best suited (usually meaning most playable) to become Secret Rares to heighten the perceived value of a box (thus increasing sales) would not be able to figure it out without the aid of a message board. Right.:confused:

[Snap006]

dlz is at 100 now... its incredibly annoying.

yeah we have to pay but if they didn't make so many secret rares then it would stop ruining it for people who cant afford that much (and dont want to play an anti that deck). i mean if they made it a bit cheaper then more people could buy them and it would make up the difference. if dark armed was a super they still would've sold out. people would still be complaining but at least it wouldn't be about how they cant afford 1 card.

Thank God I got a Darklord Zerato! That makes up for the lack of a DAD!

I each box should have a unique code on it. After so many codes, you would get to pick a secret rare of your choice.

Also 2 to a set would rule.

[Beastly_Gladiator]

ive got an idea
lets all start another thread talking about all the frog cards in LoTD and maybe UDE wil waste all the secrets on those ******ed frogs!

I believe Aarikku would like a word with you.

[DFLOOD]

DLZ is $100 now? Good thing I traded my 2 Dark Bribes and UR Solemn Judgment for one. :D Anyways, since there's like 10 Secret Rares of each set so far, look at how many people are buying these packs.

Buying packs are like drugs and UDE are the drug dealers. :eek:

^I know someone is gonna quote this.

good thing I pulled DLZ. I admit it, It is very addicting to try to get a secret rare

[Mantracker]

ude looks at these websites u dont want secret rares to be good cards shut ur mouths. am i right

yous speaks some good english in them der kentucky

[DFLOOD]

ive got an idea
lets all start another thread talking about all the frog cards in LoTD and maybe UDE wil waste all the secrets on those ******ed frogs!

how about that and lets all make decks in deck discussion for them

Additional Comment:

Thank God I got a Darklord Zerato! That makes up for the lack of a DAD!

I each box should have a unique code on it. After so many codes, you would get to pick a secret rare of your choice.

Also 2 to a set would rule.

thats ultra rares

[Zekido]

ive got an idea
lets all start another thread talking about all the frog cards in LoTD and maybe UDE wil waste all the secrets on those ******ed frogs!

I'm actually looking forward to Frog Support.
:/

[Minato Namikaze]

http://search-completed.ebay.com/Darklord-Zerato_W0QQcatrefZC5QQdfspZ1QQfbdZ1QQfclZ3QQfisZ2Q QflocZ1QQfposZ45040QQfromZR14QQfrppZ50QQfsooZ1QQfs opZ1QQfssZ0QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQnojsprZyQQpfidZ0QQsaa ffZafdefaultQQsabfmtsZ0QQsacatZQ2d1QQsacqyopZgeQQs acurZ0QQsadisZ200QQsaobfmtsZexsifQQsargnZQ2d1QQsas lcZ0QQsaslopZ1QQsofocusZbsQQsorefinesearchZ1?GetRe sult&catref=C5&dfsp=1&fbd=1&fcl=3&fis=2&floc=1&fpos=45040&from=R14&frpp=50&fsoo=1&fsop=1&fss=0&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&nojspr=y&pfid=0&saaff=afdefault&sabfmts=0&sacat=-1&sacqyop=ge&sacur=0&sadis=200&saobfmts=exsif&sargn=-1&saslc=0&saslop=1&sofocus=bs&sorefinesearch=1&guest=1

DLZ is 100?!?!

[cartman414]

Yep. Thank goodness I pulled one just now.

Personally, the feeling I get from pulling an in-demand holo is more one of relief than one of joy. I mean, that could have just as easily been a Dark Grepher, which I already have 2 of in its Sneak Preview form.

[Minato Namikaze]

I was being sarcastic...they are only going for 70-80

[Memo333]

udenami can come here to spy us...so they can decide what to do rare or secret rare...maybe some of the pojoers here work for ude?!

[cartman414]

I was being sarcastic...they are only going for 70-80

Whoops, didn't even bother to look until now. That said, that's still big money.

[Asherpotter]

secrets are great. dad widely available would be absolutely horrible. this way people can't just get mass quantities of crazy broken cards and have everyones deck the same.
sjc's are a problem though...

[Minato Namikaze]

Not when you had to plunk down 150 for my two...

I got a little excited when they were going for 100 until cause I woulda made 33% profit

[DFLOOD]

http://search-completed.ebay.com/Darklord-Zerato_W0QQcatrefZC5QQdfspZ1QQfbdZ1QQfclZ3QQfisZ2Q QflocZ1QQfposZ45040QQfromZR14QQfrppZ50QQfsooZ1QQfs opZ1QQfssZ0QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQnojsprZyQQpfidZ0QQsaa ffZafdefaultQQsabfmtsZ0QQsacatZQ2d1QQsacqyopZgeQQs acurZ0QQsadisZ200QQsaobfmtsZexsifQQsargnZQ2d1QQsas lcZ0QQsaslopZ1QQsofocusZbsQQsorefinesearchZ1?GetRe sult&catref=C5&dfsp=1&fbd=1&fcl=3&fis=2&floc=1&fpos=45040&from=R14&frpp=50&fsoo=1&fsop=1&fss=0&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&nojspr=y&pfid=0&saaff=afdefault&sabfmts=0&sacat=-1&sacqyop=ge&sacur=0&sadis=200&saobfmts=exsif&sargn=-1&saslc=0&saslop=1&sofocus=bs&sorefinesearch=1&guest=1

DLZ is 100?!?!

I remember pulling one when it was like 40

[Minato Namikaze]

I remember pulling one when it was like 40

Yeah that was only like a month ago...

[DFLOOD]

udenami can come here to spy us...so they can decide what to do rare or secret rare...maybe some of the pojoers here work for ude?!

you nub. You havent seen all of the members who have @UDE in thier name

[CaoCao]

if they don't make secret rares you'll just get those sets like cyberdark impact again. nuff said.

[Aarikku]

I believe Aarikku would like a word with you.

It's the same kind of logic as "Advanced Ritual Art can only work with Demise!!!", which I heard all too often while throwing around my Black Luster Soldier deck idea. Ended up changing a few views when I beat a Perfect Circle-or-something guy with a field full of 3000 and 5000-ATK monsters.

Also, cards can't be ******ed, gay, stupid, etc. etc. They don't have brains, genders or sexuality. Saying otherwise is proof of ignorance.

[DFLOOD]

Yeah that was only like a month ago...

and DAD was like 150 a month ago

[Minato Namikaze]

Or they could stop making crap ultras and supers and reduce the crappy cards to commons/rares and put good cards to supers/ultras because that was a much better setup then what it is now

[Snap006]

I liked the cyberdark cards. They're fun cards to play with. Just everything else in the set, excluding the few tournament level cards, sucked.

[DFLOOD]

if they don't make secret rares you'll just get those sets like cyberdark impact again. nuff said.

that scares me. Seriously how much does a pack of that go at regionals? like a dollar I think

[scen]

you remember raiza right

Raiza wasnt that hard to get, if you were desperate you could buy some on ebay for £15 (like $30) but thats not horrible if you need them

[Snap006]

Funny thing is you can by a box of cyberdark impact for the same amount as the card cyberdark impact.

[DFLOOD]

It's the same kind of logic as "Advanced Ritual Art can only work with Demise!!!", which I heard all too often while throwing around my Black Luster Soldier deck idea. Ended up changing a few views when I beat a Perfect Circle-or-something guy with a field full of 3000 and 5000-ATK monsters.

Also, cards can't be ******ed, gay, stupid, etc. etc. They don't have brains, genders or sexuality. Saying otherwise is proof of ignorance.

they are just being lazy

Additional Comment:

Raiza wasnt that hard to get, if you were desperate you could buy some on ebay for £15 (like $30) but thats not horrible if you need them

I remember alot of complaints about it being so damn expensive

Additional Comment:

Funny thing is you can by a box of cyberdark impact for the same amount as the card cyberdark impact.

really lol?

[Snap006]

Found that out looking for the card cyberdark impact on ebay.

[scen]

I remember alot of complaints about it being so damn expensive



Yeah but there weren't even half as many, practically everyone had easy access to them.

[DFLOOD]

Yeah but there weren't even half as many, practically everyone had easy access to them.

most did but like 1/4 couldnt

[Kunx990]

OMG Shapesnatch is broken.

[Snap006]

I remember when the most expensive cards were mirror force, swords, and poly.

[WildeHeart]

The flaw in your logic? What was THE most hyped card from PTDN? DAD? Dark Creator? Nope, it was Cyber Valley.

Cyber Valley got more hype then any other card in the set, so why did it not get its rarity changed?

[Minato Namikaze]

The flaw in your logic? What was THE most hyped card from PTDN? DAD? Dark Creator? Nope, it was Cyber Valley.

Cyber Valley got more hype then any other card in the set, so why did it not get its rarity changed?

DAD had way more hype then Cyber Valley/Vary. Valley was hyped from all the OTK's with DMoC which eventually flopped. DAD was feared far and wide...

[Ice_ghs]

heroo that is funny

He has got a point.Quick lets post all the bad which mean good which i mean bad which i mean good which i mean bad which i mean good which i mean bad which i mean good which i mean good which i mean good. up for light of destruction.

Cross Porter
Object A from Another Planet
D - Formation
Hero Blast
D - Fortune
Destiny Hero - Dread Servant

all should be secret ;)

Additional Comment:

Funny thing is you can by a box of cyberdark impact for the same amount as the card cyberdark impact.

lol thats right theres 4 at my local going all at 90 for all 4 :8

[Snap006]

lol thats right theres 4 at my local going all at 90 for all 4 :8

Being that cheap, I thought about buying a box, but all the cards suck.

[Ice_ghs]

Trade bait and maybe one useable card and thatset is all i`d buy it 4.

[Snap006]

Bad part is I barely have anyone to trade with. It sucks not having a hobby store nearby. I have to wait for the sneak peek.

[Aarikku]

they are just being lazy

I'm all for lazy, having spent the four day Easter weekend playing Guitar Hero, but you've got to draw the line at downright ignorance.

[tehpwnerer247]

dlz is at 100 now... its incredibly annoying.

it's really not...80ish tops (http://search-completed.ebay.com/darklord-zerato_W0QQcatrefZC5QQdfspZ1QQfbdZ1QQfclZ3QQfisZ2Q QflocZ1QQfposZ46231QQfromZR6QQfrppZ50QQfsooZ1QQfso pZ1QQfssZ0QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQnojsprZyQQpfidZ0QQsaaf fZafdefaultQQsabfmtsZ0QQsacatZQ2d1QQsacqyopZgeQQsa curZ0QQsadisZ200QQsaobfmtsZexsifQQsargnZQ2d1QQsasl cZ0QQsaslopZ1QQsofocusZbs?GetResult&catref=C5&dfsp=1&fbd=1&fcl=3&fis=2&floc=1&fpos=46231&from=R6&frpp=50&fsoo=1&fsop=1&fss=0&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&nojspr=y&pfid=0&saaff=afdefault&sabfmts=0&sacat=-1&sacqyop=ge&sacur=0&sadis=200&saobfmts=exsif&sargn=-1&saslc=0&saslop=1&sofocus=bs&guest=1)

[WildeHeart]

DAD had way more hype then Cyber Valley/Vary. Valley was hyped from all the OTK's with DMoC which eventually flopped. DAD was feared far and wide...

Were we looking at the same pages? The Valley loops weren't even what was making it so hyped. It was the extra ability to draw for almost any deck. People were raving about how amazing Macros would be with a new draw engine, and down at the Strike Ninja thread, (where people discuss a deck based almost solely around darks) it was the only PTDN card being added to everyone's decklist in 3's. A primarily dark deck, getting a set based around darks, found this little light monster to be the most beneficial card for it. That alone speaks volumes.

Then after the banned list, the OTK talk started...

[Minato Namikaze]

DAD was way more hyped due to the japanese meta, not online blogs.

Dark Armed Dragon was a rare and so people wanted that card so badly because they thought that it was going to be a rare just like in Japan. Then they found out it was going to be a secret and then they FLIPPED out. Then they looked to other cards, like Cyber Valley because they thought it was another card that would be splashed in every deck...

[Snap006]

DAD was more hyped than cyber valley, but I think upperdeck knew the potential of this card before released. It would be stupid if they didn't.

[Memo333]

When DAD excitement decrease, his price too...this is only temporal, DAD will be just a MEH card in the future.

[scen]

most did but like 1/4 couldnt

now its like 1/40

it's really not...80ish tops (http://search-completed.ebay.com/darklord-zerato_W0QQcatrefZC5QQdfspZ1QQfbdZ1QQfclZ3QQfisZ2Q QflocZ1QQfposZ46231QQfromZR6QQfrppZ50QQfsooZ1QQfso pZ1QQfssZ0QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQnojsprZyQQpfidZ0QQsaaf fZafdefaultQQsabfmtsZ0QQsacatZQ2d1QQsacqyopZgeQQsa curZ0QQsadisZ200QQsaobfmtsZexsifQQsargnZQ2d1QQsasl cZ0QQsaslopZ1QQsofocusZbs?GetResult&catref=C5&dfsp=1&fbd=1&fcl=3&fis=2&floc=1&fpos=46231&from=R6&frpp=50&fsoo=1&fsop=1&fss=0&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&nojspr=y&pfid=0&saaff=afdefault&sabfmts=0&sacat=-1&sacqyop=ge&sacur=0&sadis=200&saobfmts=exsif&sargn=-1&saslc=0&saslop=1&sofocus=bs&guest=1)

80 at about minimum, 80's not far from 100 at all.

DAD has been hyped more than any other card in recent history as far as i can tell. it's delivered though :/

[Minato Namikaze]

Also, people already knew how broken DAD was...they didn't know about Valley because it wasn't that used in Japan and for a good reason too




80 at about minimum, 80's not far from 100 at all.

DAD has been hyped more than any other card in recent history as far as i can tell. it's delivered though :/

80 is far from 100...20 away actually

That is still a 25% increase and I doubt that its going to go much higher...

[D. Mug]

Theres no way in hell I'm cranking 1 thousand dollars or more for a deck, when I've completley killed 2 DmoC/DaD builds with a couple of Cold waves and a baboon. They need to limit or semi DaD like magical explosion. Annoying, yes, fun having them slaughtering small children who want to play?
Definately not.

Heard someone say DAD got rid of noobs? Moron. Did you think of the banlist too?

[method of darkworld]

Alot of UDE people need to get a life. They don't understand people have bills to pay.

its not that i dont understand where you are coming from and not trying to sound mean but if u have bills to pay then pay the bills instead of paying for pieces of cardboard. what people have to realize at the end of the day that ude is a business, and the main purpose (as we all should know) of a business is to make money.

[Minato Namikaze]

Theres no way in hell I'm cranking 1 thousand dollars or more for a deck, when I've completley killed 2 DmoC/DaD builds with a couple of Cold waves and a baboon. They need to limit or semi DaD like magical explosion. Annoying, yes, fun having them slaughtering small children who want to play?
Definately not.

Heard someone say DAD got rid of noobs? Moron. Did you think of the banlist too?

Limiting would help but banning the cards that combo with DAD like Dimension Fusion and Return kill the deck. Its called Dark Armed Return for a reason.

But then Dark Armed Turbo becomes a problem...so limiting reasoning and monster gate are going to help as well (maybe...)

[method of darkworld]

i got an idea, keep the number of cards in a pack to 9 but every pack has a secret, ultra and super rare card in them. even though i have a better shot at landing a dates with jessica alba, traci bingham, Hayden Panettiere (at the same time) than this happening.

[Personofsecrets]

Or it could be like mtg were there is just common, uncommon, and rare. The current rarity scheme is crap. Serriously... commons, short prints, rares, super rares, ultra rares, ultimate rares, secret rares, and ghost rares all in the same set... please.

[DFLOOD]

When DAD excitement decrease, his price too...this is only temporal, DAD will be just a MEH card in the future.

it will never be MEH but I get your point

Additional Comment:

Also, people already knew how broken DAD was...they didn't know about Valley because it wasn't that used in Japan and for a good reason too



80 is far from 100...20 away actually

That is still a 25% increase and I doubt that its going to go much higher...

unless somehow people start running them in threes. Or if DaD gets banned and DLZ becomes the great card for darks. Maybe it would become like 150$ or something

Additional Comment:

Theres no way in hell I'm cranking 1 thousand dollars or more for a deck, when I've completley killed 2 DmoC/DaD builds with a couple of Cold waves and a baboon. They need to limit or semi DaD like magical explosion. Annoying, yes, fun having them slaughtering small children who want to play?
Definately not.

Heard someone say DAD got rid of noobs? Moron. Did you think of the banlist too?

well you obviously didnt understand the actual message

Additional Comment:

i got an idea, keep the number of cards in a pack to 9 but every pack has a secret, ultra and super rare card in them. even though i have a better shot at landing a dates with jessica alba, traci bingham, Hayden Panettiere (at the same time) than this happening.

omg the troll isnt banned yet. so what we play Yugioh

[Clear1]

like I said, people need to speak out on how they HATE secret rares, not keep it in. I know I do.

Just keep secrets to 4 per set and no one will complain.

[method of darkworld]

omg the troll isnt banned yet. so what we play Yugioh

going totally off topic , what in the world was your point here? i know i was simply saying if the gave us better cards per pack(secret,ultra,super rare) people wouldn't complain about having secret rares anymore. besides who wouldn't want a date with one of the three women i mentioned ?

[Minato Namikaze]

Liberachi wouldn't want to date them...

[DFLOOD]

Liberachi wouldn't want to date them...

dont feed the troll

[_hisame_]

well i dont mind having expensive secrets makes it easier to make money

[scen]

Also, people already knew how broken DAD was...they didn't know about Valley because it wasn't that used in Japan and for a good reason too



80 is far from 100...20 away actually

That is still a 25% increase and I doubt that its going to go much higher...

yeah i can count... It could go higher depending... (btw i didnt consider it that big of a difference cause here its about £40 and 100 is £50 so thats only £10 difference and that doesnt seem that big... postage is probably a big too)

Additional Comment:

like I said, people need to speak out on how they HATE secret rares, not keep it in. I know I do.

Just keep secrets to 4 per set and no one will complain.

People would still complain... unless they became really really easy to get. No secrets all together and people will be complaining about something else, but at least they won't have such a huge point :/

Additional Comment:

well i dont mind having expensive secrets makes it easier to make money

What if you dont have those secret and then find out you need them, bet you'll suddenly become unhappy that their expensive.

[LeeroyJenkinz]

This thread is the silly-nuts

[scen]

Since PTDN was natrually good, the touch UDE gave it made a slight difference. Things like Allure, Metal Reflect, Goblin Zombie and Zerato were good, but just about every other card they added like Curse of Vampire, Beliar, Dark Red Enchanter, Zoma the Spirit, all the rares, etc. were just a waste of space. I guess it's nice that these cards are finally released, but I think it's safe to say that we would have been alot more satisfied with Rare Dark Creator, Rare Dark Armed Dragon, Common Yubel, Super Nephthys, etc.


dark red and zoma are very playable just needs certain decks.

yeah we would've been happy with those cards as rare/super and all that, but ude probably thought that just by making dark armed a secret that people would buy the set just for that one card in case they don't like the others.

[method of darkworld]

dont feed the troll

who u are again? well it doesn't matter. your just 15 years old and not even worth my time or energy trading insults with someone who's not even out of high school yet lol .

now back to the topic at hand.

ude will do whats best for ude, meaning they will do what ever it legally takes to get people to buy more and more packs. but hopefully they will make mini sets like the gold series more a regular thing so people have better shots at getting previously hard to get cards(secret rares).

[raizamonarch]

i say if ude knows that a card is gonna be good, they should make it super or ultra, or make it to 2 4 or 6 secrets a set, so people at least have a ******** chance of pulling it. ude sometimes gets so obsessed with money they like to watch all the non pro duelists squirm at sjcs when pros use it on them. i mean, its not like ude and konami were gonna go out of business if they didnt make dad a secret.

[scen]

i say if ude knows that a card is gonna be good, they should make it super or ultra, or make it to 2 4 or 6 secrets a set, so people at least have a ******** chance of pulling it. ude sometimes gets so obsessed with money they like to watch all the non pro duelists squirm at sjcs when pros use it on them. i mean, its not like ude and konami were gonna go out of business if they didnt make dad a secret.

business's are normally all about money you know lol. Most of the stuff you said there didnt seem to make any sense either, watch them squirm? umad?

[scen]

No they aren't, those cards are terrible lol. They don't fit on the competitve scene what so ever.

They do that since they are greedy. People get smart though about it eventually, look at Ill Blud. People bought TAEV out the *** but now it can't be pushed off the shelves. PTDN will have the same fate, the only difference is that people are willing to accept PTDN as prize support when nobody wanted TAEV at a certain point.

They arnt the best but they are playable

ptdn has more than one good card in it, its full of them, lol taev only had blud, glas only had face and guards (maybe a bit more).

[ZanyBB]

honestly did you see all the hype on dad on these boards

and somewhat with rainbow dark drgaon

they ended up as secrets

i mean just the borads as a whole should calm down on the hyping and maybe the really good cards might not be secret

not saying they wont but there is a chance

[Sir Raphington]

They arnt the best but they are playable

ptdn has more than one good card in it, its full of them, lol taev only had blud, glas only had face and guards (maybe a bit more).

No. Dark Red and Zoma aren't even close to being playable. Although i agree that PTDN does have a few playable cards, TAEV also had Seer which topped a few jumps, and GLAS also had Dragon Ice and Enishi.

[scen]

No. Dark Red and Zoma aren't even close to being playable. Although i agree that PTDN does have a few playable cards, TAEV also had Seer which topped a few jumps, and GLAS also had Dragon Ice and Enishi.

ok so as far as i can tell taev had seer blud and zombie master, glas had a few playable secrets and ... enishi? if he even counts.

whats ptdn got? armageddon knight, cyber valley, escape from the dark dimension, dark nephthys, allure of darkness, darklord zerato, dark armed dragon, then it has incredibly strong theme support such as gigaplant, lonefire, superancient deepsea fish thingy, golden flying fish, fires of doomsday.

I cant think of any more off the top of my head. point is this set beats those others hands down, dark red is playable in a hand control deck and zoma is usuable in classic monarch because its a 1800 that can be tributed. Best set so far even with those damn secrets.

[Minato Namikaze]

honestly did you see all the hype on dad on these boards

and somewhat with rainbow dark drgaon

they ended up as secrets

i mean just the borads as a whole should calm down on the hyping and maybe the really good cards might not be secret

not saying they wont but there is a chance

These boards have very little impact on how UDE/Konami makes their decisions.

Believe it or not, Pojo isn't the center of the Yu-Gi-Oh! Universe

[scen]

These boards have very little impact on how UDE/Konami makes their decisions.

Believe it or not, Pojo isn't the center of the Yu-Gi-Oh! Universe

Admit thats a lie or i'm leaving and never coming back ;-;

wait... unless thats what you want me to do O_o

I hope they do take notice of what happens on here though.

[Calvo819]

we call the asians the stupid ones eh. Damn racists im 1/4 asian

lol. i dont get how people say "if you see an asian behind the wheel of a car freak out" cuz arent they the ones that invented Drifting?

oh, and BTW Mexicans and Asians go together like Beans+Rice

amirite?

[Minato Namikaze]

lol. i dont get how people say "if you see an asian behind the wheel of a car freak out" cuz arent they the ones that invented Drifting?

oh, and BTW Mexicans and Asians go together like Beans+Rice

amirite?

No your not right...

Asians didn't invent drifting, they merely discovered it.
People say that because the "foreigners" are some of the worst drivers around and they automatically assume that Asians are foreign even though a lot of them are born in the states.

[Sir Raphington]

ok so as far as i can tell taev had seer blud and zombie master, glas had a few playable secrets and ... enishi? if he even counts.

whats ptdn got? armageddon knight, cyber valley, escape from the dark dimension, dark nephthys, allure of darkness, darklord zerato, dark armed dragon, then it has incredibly strong theme support such as gigaplant, lonefire, superancient deepsea fish thingy, golden flying fish, fires of doomsday.

I cant think of any more off the top of my head. point is this set beats those others hands down, dark red is playable in a hand control deck and zoma is usuable in classic monarch because its a 1800 that can be tributed. Best set so far even with those damn secrets.


I completely agree with you. PTDN is the most playable set ever. Although flying fish and deepsea are hardly strong theme support.......

[Calvo819]

No your not right...

Asians didn't invent drifting, they merely discovered it.
People say that because the "foreigners" are some of the worst drivers around and they automatically assume that Asians are foreign even though a lot of them are born in the states.

oh.
-filler-

and what did you think about this?
Originally Posted By ME

oh, and BTW Mexicans and Asians go together like Beans+Rice

amirite?

[iNick]

Do you honestly think that UDE/Konami has no idea that a card might be really good? I don't think they sit and have this discussion:

Konami Rep: Dark Armed Dragon is a rare
Kevin Tewart: I don't know those people on Pojo said that it is a good card and they are talking a lot about it.
Konami Rep: <checks internet> Holy crap you're right they are talking about it. Make it a secret rare, that will teach them!!!
Kevin Tewart: Indeed!!
I wish i could siggy that.

[Minato Namikaze]

Beans and rice go good together...but not fried rice and beans

So I'm done with the racist innuendo now before I get a lot of dirty looks

[Calvo819]

Beans and rice go good together...but not fried rice and beans

So I'm done with the racist innuendo now before I get a lot of dirty looks

okey dokey, see ya around then

[scen]

Although flying fish and deepsea are hardly strong theme support.......

One adds four monsters to the field and the other ****s your opponents field from that. how is that not could support?

And this thread is getting incredibly racist, its probs gonna get closed/deleted if ya'll arnt careful :/

[Hell Kaiser Chris]

A bunch of people talking on a forum won't stop UDE from using common sense on whether or not a card is good...

[DFLOOD]

lol. i dont get how people say "if you see an asian behind the wheel of a car freak out" cuz arent they the ones that invented Drifting?

oh, and BTW Mexicans and Asians go together like Beans+Rice

amirite?

im not mexican

[method of darkworld]

No your not right...

Asians didn't invent drifting, they merely discovered it.
People say that because the "foreigners" are some of the worst drivers around and they automatically assume that Asians are foreign even though a lot of them are born in the states.

foreigners are not bad drivers i mean look at the germans the have the autobahn where u can drive as fasts as u like unlike in the states where we have to travel a certain speed limit (depending on the area ur in)

[raizamonarch]

These boards have very little impact on how UDE/Konami makes their decisions.

Believe it or not, Pojo isn't the center of the Yu-Gi-Oh! Universe

i know, its not like they check on this site everyday to make sure the cards are secretworthy

[DFLOOD]

oh my god when will this troll get banned already

[scen]

oh my god when will this troll get banned already

Doesn't every other post being about about banning people make you sort of a troll as well? and hell ive seen a lot worse than him, he just seems misguided.

[DFLOOD]

Doesn't every other post being about about banning people make you sort of a troll as well? and hell ive seen a lot worse than him, he just seems misguided.

misguided? He entered this sight just to insult people for playing yugioh

[Minato Namikaze]

misguided? He entered this sight just to insult people for playing yugioh

There are bigger trolls out there, don't worry about it and if he insults people, click the report post button.

[DFLOOD]

There are bigger trolls out there, don't worry about it and if he insults people, click the report post button.

fine I will Im tired of method of darkworld flaming us

[scen]

just so im sure who are we talking about?

[method of darkworld]

misguided? He entered this sight just to insult people for playing yugioh

lets get this straight you think i joined a tcg site in which i play to make fun of others that also play the same tcg ?hmmm that doesn't make any sense, in fact thats just ******ed logic. u miss interpret one commit i made to someone else(not you) and u start insulting me, now who is the one that flames? i dont know about you but i have better things to do than insult people about a game that i play, like working,going on dates with females and beating people at madden.

[OraCle]

Thank god at least one of you knows how to spell SITE correctley.

[method of darkworld]

Thank god at least one of you knows how to spell SITE correctley.

lol i almost spelled in incorrectly

[King Madness]

Sigh, mods lock this topic, too many rascist comments.

[Duel-God]

Personally I like having Secret Rares, I don't see a problem with them. Yea DAD is a SR but it can be taken down.

[Freaky Dave]

I forget which set Raiza came from, but if I remember correctly, there weren't any secret rares in that set. I heard that one did fine and Raiza was a super rare. I owned a DAD from pulling, but that still could have turned out to be another Castle Gate or something. Secrets were doing just fine at 2. At least your chances of getting that secret somewhere down the line was excellent if you purchased boxes. Alot of the Secrets lately could have easily have been supers, ultras, and in the case of Gil, rares. I know alot of people are just happy to have the cards in our card pool, but when things like Vennominaga, Gil Garth, and Belial are secret rares, you know that something is wrong. DAD's a good card, and as much as i'd rather him be at a lower rarity due to the Japanese's list he's earned his Secret Rare spot. Now if they would have put him with say... Darklord Zerato as the Hobby League one, we'd be set. You'd only have to purchase a box from both stores and you're set. I know UDE/Konami wants to make money, and this upping rarities thing is one hell of a power move, but still, this is riduculous. I see it like this. Either make these Secret rares beyond awesome or put them at a lower rarity. If a card is good enough to where if it was put to one and it's still wicked, then you got a candidate for Secret rare. If we had 10 secret rares of uber wicked stuff, then it wouldn't be so hard on the public. You can't put DAD in the same boat with Belial. That's wrong, just wrong. Oh and to that guy who keeps saying "umad?", I'm more irratated than anything. Thank you. That's my two lincolns.

[hiei_yasha]

^ Raiza was in FOTB, which did have secrets (Prometheus, EEV, Recurring Nightmare, etc.)
I agree with Freaky Dave's post; the main problem is that there are so many secret rares, and bad cards are thrown into the lot of them. It's like "yay I was fortunate enough to pull a secret, too bad it's worse than some of the normal rares in the set."

[method of darkworld]

I forget which set Raiza came from, but if I remember correctly, there weren't any secret rares in that set. I heard that one did fine and Raiza was a super rare. I owned a DAD from pulling, but that still could have turned out to be another Castle Gate or something. Secrets were doing just fine at 2. At least your chances of getting that secret somewhere down the line was excellent if you purchased boxes. Alot of the Secrets lately could have easily have been supers, ultras, and in the case of Gil, rares. I know alot of people are just happy to have the cards in our card pool, but when things like Vennominaga, Gil Garth, and Belial are secret rares, you know that something is wrong. DAD's a good card, and as much as i'd rather him be at a lower rarity due to the Japanese's list he's earned his Secret Rare spot. Now if they would have put him with say... Darklord Zerato as the Hobby League one, we'd be set. You'd only have to purchase a box from both stores and you're set. I know UDE/Konami wants to make money, and this upping rarities thing is one hell of a power move, but still, this is riduculous. I see it like this. Either make these Secret rares beyond awesome or put them at a lower rarity. If a card is good enough to where if it was put to one and it's still wicked, then you got a candidate for Secret rare. If we had 10 secret rares of uber wicked stuff, then it wouldn't be so hard on the public. You can't put DAD in the same boat with Belial. That's wrong, just wrong. Oh and to that guy who keeps saying "umad?", I'm more irratated than anything. Thank you. That's my two lincolns.

there are secret rares in the force of the breaker set(thats where raiza came from) and they are:

Volcanic Rocket
Lich Lord, King of the Underworld
Prometheus, King of the Shadows
Diabolos, King of the Abyss
Mist Archfiend
Plague Wolf
Recurring Nightmare
Sword of Dark Rites
Eradicator Epidemic Virus

i agree some of the secret rares that have come out since strike of neos came out should have been at most ultra rare(i could name a few). i also agree that they should limit the secret rares to cards that are "meta altering" but you also have to realize that most of the secret rares that came out last year came from the the lost structure decks(light& dark) i would say 4 maybe 5 secret rares per set would be except able. but don't make all of the best cards from a given set secret rare.

[DooM-Gamer]

Lol heres my sollutions let everyone build up the price of meta secrets Dad Ill blud then buy the cheap ones well cheap.

[taylor2007]

there are secret rares in the force of the breaker set(thats where raiza came from) and they are:

Volcanic Rocket
Lich Lord, King of the Underworld
Prometheus, King of the Shadows
Diabolos, King of the Abyss
Mist Archfiend
Plague Wolf
Recurring Nightmare
Sword of Dark Rites
Eradicator Epidemic Virus

i agree some of the secret rares that have come out since strike of neos came out should have been at most ultra rare(i could name a few). i also agree that they should limit the secret rares to cards that are "meta altering" but you also have to realize that most of the secret rares that came out last year came from the the lost structure decks(light& dark) i would say 4 maybe 5 secret rares per set would be except able. but don't make all of the best cards from a given set secret rare.

the reason for the ston and fotb secrets was to give us the light and dark deck cards since we are never getting them

[method of darkworld]

the reason for the ston and fotb secrets was to give us the light and dark deck cards since we are never getting them

i agree but dont forget they did put a few in the tactical evolution set. i am thinking Axe Dragonute will be in the light of destruction and thus they should lower the amount of secrets in sets that would come out after light of destruction.

[Freaky Dave]

I totally forgot about those (since I pulled most of those I should have remembered. Guess I shouldn't have sold them all to Strike Zone.) secrets. I still stick to my original post's thoughts. If it's not game breaking, then it shouldn't be a Secret rare. I also agree with an earlier post I saw that stated that every decent card shouldn't turn into a Secret. I agree wholeheartedly. DAD deserved his spot. Any Neos Fusion most certainly, at tops, should only be Ultra. We've gone ahead, and in a sense, brought two structure decks we weren't going to get in a different form. Ok, we can forgive that, but wtf happened with the sets afterwards? There was no need for that. I don't care if there's a Gladiator Beast that has a Victory Dragon effect, it shouldn't have been Secret, mostly because it's theme support. After the set, a theme gets like what, one or two cards trickle down the line? Can anyone seriously think why Cyberdark Impact! was a secret? Did it change the game? Nope, would it have been fun in a Cyberdark, sure. NOT SECRET MATERIAL! Tongue Twister was a mistake of epic porportions. I'm serious, there's got to be a more stringent selection process than "Oh, it came out of V-Jump or is Shueshia made, let's make that a secret". Not good enough folks, not good enough. Just make it two again if you can only find two to fit the bill. Oh, and while i'm on my soap box, wtf is with ghost rares? It should either be the same principal of what Ultimate rare goes for or the card had better be out of this world for it to get such a strange looking gloss. Alright, that's my two lincolns.

[Calvo819]

im not mexican

than that post does not affect you

[scen]

I forget which set Raiza came from, but if I remember correctly, there weren't any secret rares in that set. I heard that one did fine and Raiza was a super rare. I owned a DAD from pulling, but that still could have turned out to be another Castle Gate or something. Secrets were doing just fine at 2. At least your chances of getting that secret somewhere down the line was excellent if you purchased boxes. Alot of the Secrets lately could have easily have been supers, ultras, and in the case of Gil, rares. I know alot of people are just happy to have the cards in our card pool, but when things like Vennominaga, Gil Garth, and Belial are secret rares, you know that something is wrong. DAD's a good card, and as much as i'd rather him be at a lower rarity due to the Japanese's list he's earned his Secret Rare spot. Now if they would have put him with say... Darklord Zerato as the Hobby League one, we'd be set. You'd only have to purchase a box from both stores and you're set. I know UDE/Konami wants to make money, and this upping rarities thing is one hell of a power move, but still, this is riduculous. I see it like this. Either make these Secret rares beyond awesome or put them at a lower rarity. If a card is good enough to where if it was put to one and it's still wicked, then you got a candidate for Secret rare. If we had 10 secret rares of uber wicked stuff, then it wouldn't be so hard on the public. You can't put DAD in the same boat with Belial. That's wrong, just wrong. Oh and to that guy who keeps saying "umad?", I'm more irratated than anything. Thank you. That's my two lincolns.

umad? i'd prefer to have crappy secret rares than good secret rares, i understand what you mean that they are cards that a worthy of being secret rare, but that just makes them even more impossible to get. I would much prefer dad as a super and field commander ralz as a secret. Just the fact the their good enough to be secret rares should mean that they shouldn't be secret rares.

[taylor2007]

dont understand why dad is a secret it sux

[Minato Namikaze]

dont understand why dad is a secret it sux

Because it would have people buy more PTDN to get DAD. That way UDE makes more money. Does that clear up any misunderstandings?

[Calvo819]

you must only say that if it kills you in every duel you participate in (@taylor2007)

[taylor2007]

it doesnt im asking that cause its a terrible card i have 3 on the way plus im 31-0 against it

[Minato Namikaze]

If its terrible, then why do you have 3 coming?

[ZanyBB]

ava i know i mean the yugioh comeptive players as whole hyped someof these cards up alot and some are really hard get

[Romancer]

REALITY CHECK:
UDE has made some phenominal cards. They know what is good. Thus, they see cards they know will be good and abused and thus make those cards Secrets so they can maximize their profit on the set and keep everyone from playing the deck type (everyone but the super rich, that is).

[Calvo819]

it doesnt im asking that cause its a terrible card i have 3 on the way plus im 31-0 against it

If its terrible, then why do you have 3 coming?

AvA just owned you.

[taylor2007]

hey ***s im getting 3 to sell as a playset easy money

[Minato Namikaze]

If your getting 3, then what are you giving up to get them? And why would you add that extra step anyways?

Sounds like to much hassle to me...

[Calvo819]

AvA still owned you though

Additional Comment:

wait you got owned again by AvA

AvA gets 500 Pwnage Points! Feel free to pwn any noobs you see for the cost of .00000001 points!

[Clear1]

I told you guys, the only to solve this insoluble problem is to head down to their HQ in Vegas, douse their building with gasoline and set it on fire.

then of course, Konami will give the rights to print the TCG to somebody that does not treat their costumers like ****.

[purity_reloaded]

I told you guys, the only to solve this insoluble problem is to head down to their HQ in Vegas, douse their building with gasoline and set it on fire.

then of course, Konami will give the rights to print the TCG to somebody that does not treat their costumers like ****.

Errr...have fun storming the castle?


Show of hands - how many of you actually think you see the cards before we do? ._.

[Clear1]

Errr...have fun storming the castle?


Show of hands - how many of you actually think you see the cards before we do? ._.

Don't get me wrong, Julia. But even you should know the he gap in the game is too freaking wide between even the Super Rich and the somewhat rich. There is a fine line between going competitive and need to invest some money to do so, and going competitive and pouring thousands into building a deck.

Why can't UDE have supply that meets the demand?

And I will storm the castle when that happens, thanks.

[Beastly_Gladiator]

REALITY CHECK:
UDE has made some phenominal cards. They know what is good. Thus, they see cards they know will be good and abused and thus make those cards Secrets so they can maximize their profit on the set and keep everyone from playing the deck type (everyone but the super rich, that is).

I think I... agree with Romancer. I feel so unclean now.

[method of darkworld]

REALITY CHECK:
UDE has made some phenominal cards. They know what is good. Thus, they see cards they know will be good and abused and thus make those cards Secrets so they can maximize their profit on the set and keep everyone from playing the deck type (everyone but the super rich, that is).

i agree with everything said well except for the rich part (to a certain extent). now if you are talking about 2ndry market(mainly ebay) then i would agree, a person would have to have expendable cash available to pay for a play set of dark armed dragons or just have the luck of the gods when buying packs or in my case a box and a couple packs. i personnally think they should released sets as it was released in the ocg in that case dark armed dragon would have been a common rare. and thus no secret rares.

Additional Comment:

Errr...have fun storming the castle?


Show of hands - how many of you actually think you see the cards before we do? ._.

now that you think of it ude might actually see the cards that will be in a given set or structure deck before we even get a chance to see the ocg version of a set or structure deck list. remember it does take a while to translate cards(80+) from Japanese to English as well as alter any cards that are thought to be revealing or violent before it gets released in the tcg.

[masteroftaco]

it was good before it was printed in secret we have no say in this matter

[JDGloom]

now that you think of it ude might actually see the cards that will be in a given set or structure deck before we even get a chance to see the ocg version of a set or structure deck list. remember it does take a while to translate cards(80+) from Japanese to English as well as alter any cards that are thought to be revealing or violent before it gets released in the tcg.

Yes. Public comments made by the R&D team have shown that they do see complete sets while they're in development, and that they assumedly even have input (whether their advice is heeded, I'd imagine is a case-by-case issue).

But even if they hadn't made those comments, why on earth would anybody assume that the R&D team doesn't get this information until we do? That's ridiculous.

-Jason

[NeoDelux]

Do you honestly think that UDE/Konami has no idea that a card might be really good? I don't think they sit and have this discussion:

Konami Rep: Dark Armed Dragon is a rare
Kevin Tewart: I don't know those people on Pojo said that it is a good card and they are talking a lot about it.
Konami Rep: <checks internet> Holy crap you're right they are talking about it. Make it a secret rare, that will teach them!!!
Kevin Tewart: Indeed!!
This is VERY siggable.

And yeah, you (thread starter) should know that they have people who study the effects a card will have in a format.

[Drlowvoice]

lol money, money lol. [reprise and repeat]

[PJ]

heres a solution -when a good card is in a set dont keep tallking about it and then it will be afforadble for all
ex-dark armed dragon
You know as well as I do that people don't shut up about hype.

[cartman414]

REALITY CHECK:
UDE has made some phenominal cards. They know what is good. Thus, they see cards they know will be good and abused and thus make those cards Secrets so they can maximize their profit on the set and keep everyone from playing the deck type (everyone but the super rich, that is).

Not all the cards that are made into secrets are of that caliber. I'm just thanking the stars that the secret I pulled the other day was a Darklord Zerato and not a Dark Grepher or Belial.

Not all secrets are valued equally. Heck, there have been plenty of examples, past and present, of higher rarity cards being worth less than lower rarity cards that happen to be more useful.

What I think UDE should strive to do is balance out the rarity tiers a bit more in such a way that there's good stuff spread throughout, and that anyone who happens into an ultra or secret isn't screwed over with something of (comparative) mediocrity.

[Minato Namikaze]

Not all the cards that are made into secrets are of that caliber. I'm just thanking the stars that the secret I pulled the other day was a Darklord Zerato and not a Dark Grepher or Belial.

Not all secrets are valued equally. Heck, there have been plenty of examples, past and present, of higher rarity cards being worth less than lower rarity cards that happen to be more useful.

What I think UDE should strive to do is balance out the rarity tiers a bit more in such a way that there's good stuff spread throughout, and that anyone who happens into an ultra or secret isn't screwed over with something of (comparative) mediocrity.


I think that they are doing a decent job right now at doing that...
Look at PTDN
Rare -> Fires of Doomsday + Gigaplant + Rainbow Life + Six Samurai Support
Super -> Cyber Valley + Prime Material Dragon + Escape + Armageddon Knight
Ultra -> Allure of Darkness + Drastic Drop Off
Secret -> Dark Armed Dragon + Darklord Zerato + Dark Creator + Goblin Zombie

I think its pretty balanced out right now and since a lot of people have bought a lot of boxes and they have already gotten what they need super/rare/ultra wise but they complain due to secrets. I would love for them to cut down to 2-4 secret per set and raise the amount of supers/ultras if need be so that we could have the set be a little bit more balanced out.

At the moment, my only problem is all the crappy secret rares that we get that are a real salt in the wound type of insult. (i.e. Gil Garth, Belial, crappy fusions)

[Aarikku]

I think that they are doing a decent job right now at doing that...
Look at PTDN
Rare -> Fires of Doomsday + Gigaplant + Rainbow Life + Six Samurai Support
Super -> Cyber Valley + Prime Material Dragon + Escape + Armageddon Knight
Ultra -> Allure of Darkness + Drastic Drop Off
Secret -> Dark Armed Dragon + Darklord Zerato + Dark Creator + Goblin Zombie

The problem is when they start upping rarities of cards needed in threes for Theme decks. Look at TAEV. It took me so freaking long to get three Vennominons and a Vennominaga.

[cartman414]

I think that they are doing a decent job right now at doing that...
Look at PTDN
Rare -> Fires of Doomsday + Gigaplant + Rainbow Life + Six Samurai Support
Super -> Cyber Valley + Prime Material Dragon + Escape + Armageddon Knight
Ultra -> Allure of Darkness + Drastic Drop Off
Secret -> Dark Armed Dragon + Darklord Zerato + Dark Creator + Goblin Zombie

I think its pretty balanced out right now and since a lot of people have bought a lot of boxes and they have already gotten what they need super/rare/ultra wise but they complain due to secrets. I would love for them to cut down to 2-4 secret per set and raise the amount of supers/ultras if need be so that we could have the set be a little bit more balanced out.

At the moment, my only problem is all the crappy secret rares that we get that are a real salt in the wound type of insult. (i.e. Gil Garth, Belial, crappy fusions)

The need for a greater percentage of really good cards per rarity tier becomes even higher as you go up, so that 1 in 2 chance of pulling a good regular rare won't fly at the SCR level, especially at the 10 SCR count that we have now.

[Minato Namikaze]

Notice I said decent...

They could obviously do better

[Yellow]

I think I have discovered their secret.
They make the Konami - good cards hard to get, so making it less people can play them. They make the UDE card - Good, but slightly easier to get, so less people complain about how hard they are to get.

Therefore more people play the UDE cards as they can then get them more easily, so they can then rub it in Konami's face and say:
"HA! Our cards are more played and therefore better, while less people are complaining about them!"






I'm tired, don't judge me...

[DFLOOD]

Notice I said decent...

They could obviously do better

not everything has to be perfect

[cartman414]

not everything has to be perfect

But when things CAN be better, why not strive for that?

[DFLOOD]

But when things CAN be better, why not strive for that?

I know. But lets just hope if it does get better that most people will start being a little more accepting of the rarities we get

[taylor2007]

I think I have discovered their secret.
They make the Konami - good cards hard to get, so making it less people can play them. They make the UDE card - Good, but slightly easier to get, so less people complain about how hard they are to get.

Therefore more people play the UDE cards as they can then get them more easily, so they can then rub it in Konami's face and say:
"HA! Our cards are more played and therefore better, while less people are complaining about them!"






I'm tired, don't judge me...


HELLO DARKLORD ZERATO

[Clear1]

I think if enough people complained and say there are too much Secret Rares, they will stop.

On a personal note, Secret Rares look like crap anyways, Ultimate Rares all the way. Would you rather to have a bland icky looking Dark Armed with lines all over it or a Blinding Ultimate Rare Dark Armed to make your opponent... you know, ph33r it?

I mean, they DID stop after people said they don't like Structure Deck exclusives as Secrets. That and a bunch of other factors too. But, if people didn't complain about it back then, we won't even have something called "Trade-in" so I don't have pay $70 for 1 D-Draw or $50 for 1 Allure.

Seriously, UDE, you would make just as much money tone down the SRs and keep the content. The Secondary Singles Market has NOTHING to do with you, you will sell as much packs if your sets are not **** like GLAS and have good content like PTDN.

[DFLOOD]

I think if enough people complained and say there are too much Secret Rares, they will stop.

On a personal note, Secret Rares look like crap anyways, Ultimate Rares all the way. Would you rather to have a bland icky looking Dark Armed with lines all over it or a Blinding Ultimate Rare Dark Armed to make your opponent... you know, ph33r it?

I mean, they DID stop after people said they don't like Structure Deck exclusives as Secrets. That and a bunch of other factors too. But, if people didn't complain about it back then, we won't even have something called "Trade-in" so I don't have pay $70 for 1 D-Draw or $50 for 1 Allure.

Seriously, UDE, you would make just as much money tone down the SRs and keep the content. The Secondary Singles Market has NOTHING to do with you, you will sell as much packs if your sets are not **** like GLAS and have good content like PTDN.


especially since they refuse to sell singles at thier stores.

[JDGloom]

I mean, they DID stop after people said they don't like Structure Deck exclusives as Secrets. That and a bunch of other factors too. But, if people didn't complain about it back then, we won't even have something called "Trade-in" so I don't have pay $70 for 1 D-Draw or $50 for 1 Allure.


People complaining did not cause UDE and Konami to release Rise of the Dragon Lords as a Structure Deck. The fact that it was obviously a viable standalone product, while the two previous SDs in Japan were deemed to not be, is the reason.

The complainers accomplished nothing. Stop patting them, or yourself, on the back.

-Jason

[hiei_yasha]

People complaining did not cause UDE and Konami to release Rise of the Dragon Lords as a Structure Deck. The fact that it was obviously a viable standalone product, while the two previous SDs in Japan were deemed to not be, is the reason.

The complainers accomplished nothing. Stop patting them, or yourself, on the back.

-Jason

So you mean to say that they honestly thought that a structure deck with common CCV would not be a "viable" product? And yet CCV is one of the major selling points of the Gold Series? If what you say is the case, why are some of the cards from the dark and light decks released as TCG secrets if they were so not "viable"? I admit the light deck didn't have much that popped out to me personally other than the Solemn Judgment, but that in itself would've made me buy 3, along with probably a lot of other people. The Widespreads would've been nice too, back when people were still using them.

[Kitsune Blue]

The problem is when they start upping rarities of cards needed in threes for Theme decks. Look at TAEV. It took me so freaking long to get three Vennominons and a Vennominaga.Quoted. For. Truth.

Two Vennominaga's would be prefered, but I honestly can't afford them...

[wilsonater]

Yeah you are right.We are hyping the card so they make it secret.If we were like OMG COELCANATH IS COMING they would make it a secret

never say that sort of blasphemy ever again we should of been like OMG DAD IS COMING OUT BURN THEM ALL!!!!!!!.....and the witches

[alexis`on`fire]

dlz is at 100 now... its incredibly annoying.

yeah we have to pay but if they didn't make so many secret rares then it would stop ruining it for people who cant afford that much (and dont want to play an anti that deck). i mean if they made it a bit cheaper then more people could buy them and it would make up the difference. if dark armed was a super they still would've sold out. people would still be complaining but at least it wouldn't be about how they cant afford 1 card.

haha I picked it up at 35. :)

[ownsyou]

The only real problem I have is the amount of secrets per set. I like to build and play fun decks in locals and regionals, and in order to build a competitive fun deck nowadays you need secret rares. Like a fairy deck, I would need at least 6 of the fairy secrets to make it really good, or a Frost and Flame deck, I would again need more secrets. And for an average player you can barley afford to have more than one secret at a time let alone 6. Then the problem comes up when you want to have another deck, should you trade away your secrets for others (not mentioning that you probly wont be able to trade them all away for what you need in one shot, which takes more time away thus taking the fun away from playing) or should you just buy more packs and pull a gil garth? Then the problem to play at high level tournys comes in. Dark Armed Dragon is obviously the deck to play at SJCs or Nationals (if you want to have a realistic chance of winning that is). Dark Arms are at like 250 a piece, and zerato is at 80!?!?! That's 830!!!, just for the standard secrets alone. If you want to risk buying a box to pull 2 good secrets mixed in with 10 other crappy ones than thats just it. So why risk getting crap, and just guarantee the card. UDE needs to make sets like they did in the old days. If you want a Gemini Elf then buy a 24 box, if you want a Cylinder then buy a 36 box. I wouldn't even mind the 4 secret ideas ppl have been passing along. Like make ptdn Zerato, Dark Armed, Belail, and Rainbow Neos. That way its still chancy but not a 6 to 1 shot in the dark.

[St1ffler]

The only real problem I have is the amount of secrets per set. I like to build and play fun decks in locals and regionals, and in order to build a competitive fun deck nowadays you need secret rares. Like a fairy deck, I would need at least 6 of the fairy secrets to make it really good, or a Frost and Flame deck, I would again need more secrets. And for an average player you can barley afford to have more than one secret at a time let alone 6. Then the problem comes up when you want to have another deck, should you trade away your secrets for others (not mentioning that you probly wont be able to trade them all away for what you need in one shot, which takes more time away thus taking the fun away from playing) or should you just buy more packs and pull a gil garth? Then the problem to play at high level tournys comes in. Dark Armed Dragon is obviously the deck to play at SJCs or Nationals (if you want to have a realistic chance of winning that is). Dark Arms are at like 250 a piece, and zerato is at 80!?!?! That's 830!!!, just for the standard secrets alone. If you want to risk buying a box to pull 2 good secrets mixed in with 10 other crappy ones than thats just it. So why risk getting crap, and just guarantee the card. UDE needs to make sets like they did in the old days. If you want a Gemini Elf then buy a 24 box, if you want a Cylinder then buy a 36 box. I wouldn't even mind the 4 secret ideas ppl have been passing along. Like make ptdn Zerato, Dark Armed, Belail, and Gil Garth. That way its still chancy but not a 6 to 1 shot in the dark.

As much as we all complain, we still keep buying boxes. The key to this set was to make these secret rares incredibly hard to get, and at least half of them are bad.. so that you buy MORE. If you were guaranteed a secret per box, you'd by about 6 and that's all you'd need. But the strategy behind UDE releases is to sell as much as possible.. not cater to your needs.

[ownsyou]

As much as we all complain, we still keep buying boxes. The key to this set was to make these secret rares incredibly hard to get, and at least half of them are bad.. so that you buy MORE. If you were guaranteed a secret per box, you'd by about 6 and that's all you'd need. But the strategy behind UDE releases is to sell as much as possible.. not cater to your needs.

uh duh, they obviously want to make money. But they're losing a lot of players because of the outragious prices of the game. I doubt they'd be catering to only my needs.

[St1ffler]

uh duh, they obviously want to make money. But they're losing a lot of players because of the outragious prices of the game. I doubt they'd be catering to only my needs.

Sorry, I don't think their loosing "alot of players." If they were, we'd have no SJC, no Regionals and no Nationals.

[ownsyou]

Sorry, I don't think their loosing "alot of players." If they were, we'd have no SJC, no Regionals and no Nationals.

Maybe not in your area, but Ive noticed a decline in my area. Dont get me wrong they are banking, I used to think buying a box was amazing, but Ive seen ppl buy cases.

[St1ffler]

Maybe not in your area, but Ive noticed a decline in my area. Dont get me wrong they are banking, I used to think buying a box was amazing, but Ive seen ppl buy cases.

People waste 700$ on a case to pull 1 DaD, a few other crap secrets and a few allures. Instead of waisting money.. build something other then DaD or wait till Sept. 1st. I did this when BLS was killing the field.

(This is quite hypocritical of me to post, since I bought a case myself.. xD)

[ownsyou]

People waste 700$ on a case to pull 1 DaD, a few other crap secrets and a few allures. Instead of waisting money.. build something other then DaD or wait till Sept. 1st. I did this when BLS was killing the field.

(This is quite hypocritical of me to post, since I bought a case myself.. xD)

That's what Ive been trying to do, but most other decks require secret rares, and I would like to play a competitive deck at nats. How did you find the money to buy a case?:eek:

[St1ffler]

That's what Ive been trying to do, but most other decks require secret rares, and I would like to play a competitive deck at nats. How did you find the money to buy a case?:eek:

Work, discounts, etc.

[Minato Namikaze]

So you mean to say that they honestly thought that a structure deck with common CCV would not be a "viable" product? And yet CCV is one of the major selling points of the Gold Series? If what you say is the case, why are some of the cards from the dark and light decks released as TCG secrets if they were so not "viable"? I admit the light deck didn't have much that popped out to me personally other than the Solemn Judgment, but that in itself would've made me buy 3, along with probably a lot of other people. The Widespreads would've been nice too, back when people were still using them.
Too bad the players aren't the majority in their target audience. If they were, we would probably get a lot more better cards and less "crappy support and themes." Since we aren't, then that is why we didn't get the Japanese SD11 + SD12

Sorry, I don't think their loosing "alot of players." If they were, we'd have no SJC, no Regionals and no Nationals.

Way too early to tell. There have been 2 SJC's since the release of PTDN and since then the rise of prices of Dark Armed Dragon, Darklord Zerato and Allure of Darkness.

But in all honesty, I think we are loosing some of the "middle class" players and a lot of the "lower class" players because of the price to be competitive but I also think there is still a lot of competition out there.

[Shy Guy]

People complaining did not cause UDE and Konami to release Rise of the Dragon Lords as a Structure Deck. The fact that it was obviously a viable standalone product, while the two previous SDs in Japan were deemed to not be, is the reason.

The complainers accomplished nothing. Stop patting them, or yourself, on the back.

-Jason

More like this is the reason you want people to believe. You know damn well that had the two structures before Rise of the Dragon Lords been released they would've been popular sellers. UDE knew that, the proof is that they took the structure exclusives and made them into Secret Rares. You know this too, but you aren't allowed to say it.

[Lone Soldier]

So many people are confused because many of them haven't reached Senior Year in High School, thus lacking the knowledge that Business and Govern Econ teaches you.

UDE doesn't care about you. They care about your money. Regionals, Tournaments, Booster Packs, they are all recorded on dependcies of how much you buy, enter, and how much the Card is used.

They knew from the start how much PTDN cards would be worth, just like every other set. Regionals for us is like a Lab Test for them. After such events are finished, they can go on a better estimate for how much they want to price you.

"Hm, how many will enter and with what kind of decks?" Then it is processed after results, and that is when prices sky rocket.

Ban List. Why is there one? They made the best of the best cards for us as first so it would be an extreme environment. People would wonder what cards can you make aside from the best? People thought YuGiOh would die.

Wrong.

They made a Ban List to get you hooked. The Ban List was in effect before the game even came out. It is to HOOK you. It is all and always about money. You think they would have made much money in Traditional? They gave us ensight on what is the power of powerful cards, CED, Yata, Raigeki, and now that we have that idea, it can not be surpassed by anything else. So now we have many different types of cards, Booster sets coming out in what seems multiples at a time, etc.

It's for money. Always was, always will be. CED never reached the godly amount that Dark Armed has, and why? CED is way more threatening, better looking and stronger and easier to get out.

Because they knew that after the best was gone, people would appreciate the value of second grade cards. And that value gets more expensive.

Why do you guys possibly think that can be? Pot of Greed a rare while Allure and Destiny Draw go for 60. 60 where I am at at the least.

4 years of Psychology and Gov Econ/Business has taught me only one thing:

Everything is about Money, Welcome signs aren't talking to you, they are talking to your money.

Serj Tankian from System of a Down and Serjical Strike records said it perfectly in two songs. In Boom! he said "the bottom line is money, nobody gives a f-" and in the song Money from his Album Elect the Dead:

Money! Hide your Money! Serve your Money! Lick your Money! Hump your Money! All for Money!

- Ryan.

[Kitsune Blue]

Lone Soldier, your post is wrong because you fail to notice that UDE does not control the secondary market.

[Minato Namikaze]

Not directly...

But they have a major influence over the secondary market

[Shy Guy]

Oh yeah they do and that's what a lot of people don't realize. They don't control the secondary market on the surface, they don't set the prices and they don't tell people how much to pay. They do however create the supply of things that are put on the secondary market and if the supply doesn't meet the demand for it, it will drive the price on the secondary market up.

[cartman414]

As much as we all complain, we still keep buying boxes. The key to this set was to make these secret rares incredibly hard to get, and at least half of them are bad.. so that you buy MORE. If you were guaranteed a secret per box, you'd by about 6 and that's all you'd need. But the strategy behind UDE releases is to sell as much as possible.. not cater to your needs.

When you have a secret count of over 5-6 AND half of them aren't worth it though, then you're likely to start having disenchanted customers who won't risk nearly as much as they would if there were more of a guarantee of getting a good secret rare in a box.

[JDGloom]

More like this is the reason you want people to believe. You know damn well that had the two structures before Rise of the Dragon Lords been released they would've been popular sellers. UDE knew that, the proof is that they took the structure exclusives and made them into Secret Rares. You know this too, but you aren't allowed to say it.

I don't know what to tell you, dude. I don't believe the Structures would have sold very well. It's really obvious to me that UDE would have lost money on them. Even if they had included Crush Card Virus in the Dark deck, it's a limited card and that means most people would have only bought one Structure. Many would have just traded a kid for their CCV and bought none.

Neither Structure was anywhere near as desirable as Machine's Re-Volt, and that deck didn't sell like it needed to either. I completely believe SD11 and SD12 would've been flops.

The Structure cards were made into Secret Rares because at the time, that was the only place to put those cards.

-Jason

PS- Oh, and if I was for some reason forbidden from saying something, I'd just avoid the discussion altogether. It would be alot easier for me than trying to explain to folks my unpopular, but realistic opinion. ;)

[Minato Namikaze]

I think that people don't realize is that they think that it is about the players who go to tournaments but in reality it isn't. Its about the kids who buy pack after pack every week just to get some cards from the show. They probably don't buy structure decks as much as packs because of the cost and if they were to buy a structure it is only one.

[SilentMagician7]

I don't know what to tell you, dude. I don't believe the Structures would have sold very well. It's really obvious to me that UDE would have lost money on them. Even if they had included Crush Card Virus in the Dark deck, it's a limited card and that means most people would have only bought one Structure. Many would have just traded a kid for their CCV and bought none.

He's right about this. I wouldn't have purchased that Dark Structure Deck. I would have just traded for the Crush Card Virus and called it a day. The rest of the deck was garbage.

Neither Structure was anywhere near as desirable as Machine's Re-Volt, and that deck didn't sell like it needed to either. I completely believe SD11 and SD12 would've been flops.

However, I did purchase three of the Machine Structure Deck because the cards in that deck could be used in multiples.

The Structure cards were made into Secret Rares because at the time, that was the only place to put those cards.

Still to this day, not everyone really wants them. That should be proof enough.

[Shy Guy]

I don't know what to tell you, dude. I don't believe the Structures would have sold very well. It's really obvious to me that UDE would have lost money on them. Even if they had included Crush Card Virus in the Dark deck, it's a limited card and that means most people would have only bought one Structure. Many would have just traded a kid for their CCV and bought none.

As opposed to what? The Rock Structure? The Wind Structure? The Dinosaur Structure?

Since I'm curious to know, please tell me what made those better sellers than SD 11 & 12 would've been.

If you didn't think they would sell so good then why did UDE make all of the structure exclusives Secret Rares for two sets and Crush an SJC prize card? Because they knew they would sell, otherwise they would've just left them in Japan.

To your response about being nowhere to put them, how about in the structures where they belonged? How about not making them Secret Rares? There were plenty of places to put them, but UDE went with the most illogical choice.

[Lone Soldier]

Lone Soldier, your post is wrong because you fail to notice that UDE does not control the secondary market.

My post isn't wrong, just stated incorrectly. If not UDE, then Konami, whomever it is that distributes prices, rarirty and etc., then them. My point still stands on what I said, doesn't make it incorrect in a whole, just because of some misplaced words.

[Zoomer3989]

Solutions to Secret Rare Problem:

1. Cut down the number of SCR's -> No more then 4-5 per set, if that is mandatory. We were very happy with two. I'm pretty sure IOC sold well, or I would not have had to pay $45 for my BLS-EOTB

2. Increase the chances of getting SCR's -> perhaps, 2 per box?, like ultras/ULTs. If UDE continues to put cards that will be played in multiples as secrets, people will be more inclined to buy boxes where they may actually get all of what they need in 3-5 of them

3. Make cards that need to be ran in multiples as supers (with a shorter print run), or ultras with a slightly higher print run, if you want to make more money while not stressing the players/consumers.

4. Make the most playable cards supers or ultras. People will buy a box if they feel that the current 4 super slots and 2 ultra slots have a good chance at being playable. PTDN is a great example of this: Allure, Dark Phoenix are great, Armageddon, Cyber Valley, Escape from the DD. People bought boxes hoping for a DAD, but backed up behind the fact that if they didn't, they were sure to get good supers or ultras that would pay for the box.

5. If SCR's are absolutely mandatory, I think one way to keep players and collectors happy (and I know I am going to be flamed for this), is to make them all, and only all, OCG promos that are either playable, do not need to be run in 3's, or already on the restricted, not banned list. Gorz is a good example of what I mean

[JDGloom]

As opposed to what? The Rock Structure? The Wind Structure? The Dinosaur Structure?

Since I'm curious to know, please tell me what made those better sellers than SD 11 & 12 would've been.


Nothing did. Go look at the SDs collecting dust on the shelves of your local hobby store: they were failures too. Some of the previous structures were obviously less desirable than SD11 and SD12. But no company is going to sit there making the same mistake over and over again, especially after they already completed their mission of getting cards like Torrential Tribute, Heavy Storm, Mystical Space Typhoon, and others into the hands of anyone who had ten bucks.


If you didn't think they would sell so good then why did UDE make all of the structure exclusives Secret Rares for two sets and Crush an SJC prize card? Because they they knew they would sell, otherwise they would've just left them in Japan.


I'm just speculating, but when your retailers are asking for sets with more cards in them (there was a huge call for this), and Konami says "here's ten cards, make them Secrets", you take the ten cards and don't question it. o_O

As for CCV being made a prize card, that happened long before Konami released SD12 in the OCG.

-Jason

[Shy Guy]

Nothing did. Go look at the SDs collecting dust on the shelves of your local hobby store: they were failures too. Some of the previous structures were obviously less desirable than SD11 and SD12. But no company is going to sit there making the same mistake over and over again, especially after they already completed their mission of getting cards like Torrential Tribute, Heavy Storm, Mystical Space Typhoon, and others into the hands of anyone who had ten bucks.

They made the mistake with the Dinosaur deck after the Wind and Earth decks. That was also after the Fire deck which was terrible except for one card. Most of the structures never had anything except choice cards than made them viable as a standalone product but they still came out.

[Kitsune Blue]

I suppose that's true. Soldier, I was kinda responding to how you insinuated UDE caused prices to skyrocket directly, since the price of packs is fairly consistant...

I really think UDE should not have made Secret Rares, but... At least keep it to two a set.

SD11 and SD12 were two of the most desireable structures of them all, in my opinion... I would have bought three of each. I really wanted to make my friend a Fairy deck, since she was a huge fan of them.

Also, cards pushed to Secrets because there's no where else to put them? That's kinda... Not smart.

[Zoomer3989]

BTW, when the SD's are created, would it be possible for UDE to make TCG-Exclusives to put in them and change the deck around, or is that only allowed in the sets?

[JDGloom]

You edited your post, so I need to respond in separate postings, sorry about that.


To your response about being nowhere to put them, how about in the structures where they belonged? How about not making them Secret Rares? There were plenty of places to put them, but UDE went with the most illogical choice.


I don't get what part of this you can't understand. Structure decks lost money. They ceased to be a viable product in the eyes of the people who get fired for greenlighting stuff that loses money. When a product doesn't sell, especially one with extremely thin product margins like pre-con decks, companies stop making it.

This is simple stuff to grasp.

-Jason

[Minato Namikaze]

Solutions to Secret Rare Problem:

1. Cut down the number of SCR's -> No more then 4-5 per set, if that is mandatory. We were very happy with two. I'm pretty sure IOC sold well, or I would not have had to pay $45 for my BLS-EOTB

2. Increase the chances of getting SCR's -> perhaps, 2 per box?, like ultras/ULTs. If UDE continues to put cards that will be played in multiples as secrets, people will be more inclined to buy boxes where they may actually get all of what they need in 3-5 of them

3. Make cards that need to be ran in multiples as supers (with a shorter print run), or ultras with a slightly higher print run, if you want to make more money while not stressing the players/consumers.

4. Make the most playable cards supers or ultras. People will buy a box if they feel that the current 4 super slots and 2 ultra slots have a good chance at being playable. PTDN is a great example of this: Allure, Dark Phoenix are great, Armageddon, Cyber Valley, Escape from the DD. People bought boxes hoping for a DAD, but backed up behind the fact that if they didn't, they were sure to get good supers or ultras that would pay for the box.

5. If SCR's are absolutely mandatory, I think one way to keep players and collectors happy (and I know I am going to be flamed for this), is to make them all, and only all, OCG promos that are either playable, do not need to be run in 3's, or already on the restricted, not banned list. Gorz is a good example of what I mean

1. I agree that there shouldn't be 10 secrets or if there are 10 make them all of the same caliber.

2. Secret Rares are called secret for a reason. Secret meaning they are harder to get then Ultra/Super Rares. If it was like 1:18 it would be better but not 1:30 as it is now (if they were to remain at 10 per set.) But if they were to cut down to 4-6 1:30 is more acceptable then 10 secrets per set.

3. Umm...ok? I really don't know what to say to that. It's a decent suggestion but I doubt that it would happen really.

4. Having the most playable cards in a set should be Ultra/Secret mainly because otherwise once everyone got what they wanted (if they were rare/super that is) then people would stop buying packs.

5. Secrets shouldn't be apart of the set. Like Dark Armed Dragon, Dark Creator and Rainbow Dark Dragon shouldn't have been secret rare. They should've been Ultra/Super/Ghost and the OCG promos and TCG exclusives should have been the secret rares.

[Shy Guy]

I don't get what part of this you can't understand. Structure decks lost money. They ceased to be a viable product in the eyes of the people who get fired for greenlighting stuff that loses money. When a product doesn't sell, especially one with extremely thin product margins like pre-con decks, companies stop making it.

This is simple stuff to grasp.

-Jason

I do understand that. I guess from personal experiences and the player opinions that I've seen/heard I would've thought the structure deck would've been a hit. Then again, I guess that's why you work for UDE and I don't.

[JDGloom]

They made the mistake with the Dinosaur deck after the Wind and Earth decks. That was also after the Fire deck which was terrible except for one card. Most of the structures never had anything except choice cards than made them viable as a standalone product but they still came out.

You have to understand that the Dinosaur deck probably looked very different from previous products in the eyes of a brand manager or R&D member.

-It had more exclusive, non-reprint cards than any SD before it
-It had Dinosaurs, which are popular with the important "kid demographic"
-UDE somehow managed to get Konami to release a special version of the deck with Five-Headed Dragon to try and boost sales.

I love that deck - I bought my three copies and every time a new Dinosaur gets released I look longingly at my playset of Tail Swipe. But it still failed to sell in adequate numbers. Hopefully you can see how the Dinosaur deck looked like it would be worth "one more try".


Also, cards pushed to Secrets because there's no where else to put them? That's kinda... Not smart.

The alternative was not releasing them. This is a long-standing debate for people on this forum, but I personally prefer having at least a shot at those cards than watching them disappear into the bowels of the OCG.

BTW, when the SD's are created, would it be possible for UDE to make TCG-Exclusives to put in them and change the deck around, or is that only allowed in the sets?

I don't think anyone here can answer this question. We still don't know what the terms are that allow for the TCG to have exclusive cards, nor who's responsible for most of them (we know that UDE R&D is responsible for at least some of them, since they publicly took credit for Grandmaster).

-Jason

Additional Comment:



I do understand that. I guess from personal experiences and the player opinions that I've seen I would've thought the structure deck would've been a hit. Then again, I guess that's why you work for UDE and I don't.

I'm not an employee of UDE, I just listen to their press releases and read industry retailer reports and stuff. But, that was a nice attempt at some sort of low blow.

-Jason

[Zoomer3989]

1. I agree that there shouldn't be 10 secrets or if there are 10 make them all of the same caliber.

Right. But ten is simply too many for the pull ratio. Realize that the only reason those cards are expensive is because they are hard to pull. Cards should be expensive because they are highly playable, not because you have to buy more product. And the best cards, i.e. staples, should be commons to keep the playing field a little more level.

2. Secret Rares are called secret for a reason. Secret meaning they are harder to get then Ultra/Super Rares. If it was like 1:18 it would be better but not 1:30 as it is now (if they were to remain at 10 per set.) But if they were to cut down to 4-6 1:30 is more acceptable then 10 secrets per set.

True. But even 6 is too many. I consider 5 the limit because it's a nice round number, and overall, if its still one a box, a 20-25% is a fair compromise.

3. Umm...ok? I really don't know what to say to that. It's a decent suggestion but I doubt that it would happen really.

Probably not, but Cyber Dragon is a good example of my point. When CRV came out, the super-rare topped at $30-35 each. People actually started buying CRV boxes for them, because they knew that if they got 2 in there 4 super slots, they would have paid for the box and made 10-20, not including the other cards.

4. Having the most playable cards in a set should be Ultra/Secret mainly because otherwise once everyone got what they wanted (if they were rare/super that is) then people would stop buying packs.

Ultras, yes, because you get 2 per box. That's fair. But Secrets, for people who have bad trading stock or little money, become only accessible through sheer luck. Or scaling (which is preferred)

5. Secrets shouldn't be apart of the set. Like Dark Armed Dragon, Dark Creator and Rainbow Dark Dragon shouldn't have been secret rare. They should've been Ultra/Super/Ghost and the OCG promos and TCG exclusives should have been the secret rares.

Exactly what I said. Except Ghost rarity was pointless. This game has way too many rarities at this point.

[Shy Guy]

I'm not an employee of UDE, I just listen to their press releases and read industry retailer reports and stuff. But, that was a nice attempt at some sort of low blow.

-Jason

It wasn't mean to be. I was unaware that you weren't a UDE employee. My mistake and I apologize for that. That's what I get for listening to people.

[Minato Namikaze]

I'm not an employee of UDE, I just listen to their press releases and read industry retailer reports and stuff. But, that was a nice attempt at some sort of low blow.

-Jason

Where would one go to listen to press releases and to "read industry retailer reports and stuff?" That is unless that is something not available to the average consumer, like myself.

Exactly what I said. Except Ghost rarity was pointless. This game has way too many rarities at this point.

I think Ghost rare was aimed more for the collectors but people who are collectors buy multiple boxes at a time and therefore get 2-3 Ghost Rares. Maybe if they increased the amount of Ghost Rares and made the Ghost Rares something that people would want to use and play with that would make them more popular.

Just kinda went off a little on a tangent for a little bit lol

Oh and when I said "10 of the same caliber" I meant it in a way so that they were all equally playable/desired and therefore pulling 1 secret rare would be fine...

But making 10 cards of the same caliber is really kinda hard to do and I doubt we would see something like that in the near future.

[JDGloom]

That's fine. I'm really not here to ram anything down anybody's throat, as frustrated as I might sound at times. I've just got some insight that alot of people aren't in the position to have, and it can shed some light on stuff sometimes.

Like I alluded earlier, I buy at least three of every Structure: I bought at least six Machine's Re-Volt and I think probably the same number if not more of Rise of the Dragon Lords. I'd've bought SD11 for the Solemns alone, and I currently play Counter Fairies, so, yeah. But I can understand why UDE just couldn't keep putting out SDs at the same rate each year, especially if the SDs in question didn't have all-new cards with huge, flexible tournament appeal like Trade-In, Foolish, and DDR.

-Jason

[Kitsune Blue]

I must say, I was a fan of the Dinosaur deck as well. I never made a working deck with it, though...

Really, though, two Secret Rares a set would make things so much better. If someone's going to tell me that this game is fine as it is right now, I would just laugh. Ten secrets per set makes the price of any one secret outrageous, even if the card is not particularly good (50$ Silent Doom? Are you kidding me?).

[JDGloom]

Where would one go to listen to press releases and to "read industry retailer reports and stuff?" That is unless that is something not available to the average consumer, like myself.


Some sources of this type of info are public, some are private. Press releases and some retailer responses can always be found on ICV2.com, which I think is an absolute must-read for anyone who's employed or contracts in this industry (I'm the latter). I also like gamingreport.com, albeit they're usually more about new gaming products than discussing performance of current stuff on the shelves.

-Jason

Additional Comment:

(50$ Silent Doom? Are you kidding me?).

I always wonder how much those cards would be if they'd been SCRs in a ten-SCR set instead of a 15-SCR set. Which even people from UDE have come out to acknowledge the craziness of.

-Jason

[Dr Doom]

I'm afraid I might have to side with Kitsune Blue regarding the new mass of secret rares. However, I also understand how UDE technically has their hands tied and Konami calls the shots regarding rarities of cards. You should all be thankful that Yu-Gi-Oh! doesn't use set rotation, otherwise this would be a very, very expensive game.

[Zoomer3989]

The reason I asked was because it seemed to me that UD could kill 1 financial bird and one player bird with one stone (or SD)

Idea:

1. If UDE can make drastic changes to SD's, it should focus on making more TCG exclusives, and replacing the worst cards or the majority of each SD with them.

2. By replace, I meant completely replace. With the Dinosaur deck, rather then release the same common staples ( I think you only need to do this twice in order to accomplish the "getting them out to everyone" idea), create Dinosaur-themed staples, or, great/broken cards that can only work in a Dinosaur themed deck.

Examples:

A "Destiny Draw" for Dinosaurs, but slightly more powerful

"Cold-Blooded Egg"
Spell/Normal
You can only activate this card if there is a face-up Dinosaur monster on your side of the field. Draw 3 cards, then discard one Dinosaur monster from your hand. If you cannot, discard your hand.

This is how themes can be made competitive -> by giving them cards that are close to broken, but are so theme specific that people can only run the cards with the theme, without ridiculous requirements. Plus, if these cards are given only to types with minimal support, they can actually flourish, because they can use cards that would normally be banned if generic, but with specific type requirements, are a pain to run in other decks.

In LODT, there is a Frog-support card that acts as Mirror Force. Perfect example. It supports a theme with minimal support, by giving them a banned card that only they can use. And if each and every type/theme had two or three of these cards, and a monster to build them around, we would have fewer diversity problems

[JDGloom]

Zoomer - Better cards would always make for better-selling products, but I get the impression that's a sticky bit of politics between the involved parties. Personally, I'm just glad UDE finally has SOME input.

As for better themed cards to move structures, I don't know. The average player is extremely skeptical of playing themed decks, and some are mysteriously downright hostile towards the idea. I really think the current "formula" of including a couple flexible new cards that can work in many decks might be all that can move Structures at the necessary rate.

That's a question that's wayyyyy out of my league though.

-Jason

[Kitsune Blue]

This game couldn't survive with set rotation if sets continued as they have been.

I know I'm appearing selfish while posting (I am; I'm a teenager, afterall) but imagine the disappointment a casual player feels when decks get pushed outside their price range because you'd need several secrets to make it work. And each secret is only in about 1 of every 10 boxes (I mean for any individual secret you might be wanting).

I will say thank you to UDE for one thing, though- Tins. Without them, my Crystal Beast deck would never have been possible. Thanks, UDE! Maybe if you keep making good things like tins, I'll start buying packs again? Please?

[Dr Doom]

Well... who knows? If the game developed a set rotation method of controlling the tournament scene, perhaps Konami would make more balanced sets with a more balanced rariety scheme? As of now, such a thing with be suicide for the game.

[Zoomer3989]

Right. It just seemed to me that UDE tends to release a lot of good generic support. This is way theme-less decks flourish -> because colorless decks cna abuse the most support. Generally, I have always felt that players like to run the decks that are most competitive. People run Dark decks now because Allure is the most generic draw card, and DAD is close to BLSEOTB in terms of ability and ease of summoning.

People run decks that are supported well. Effective support will promote a deck. PTDN again -> plants were laughed at until now, and actually only taken seriously because of only 2 rares. And while Giga and Lonefire are good, if they had an Allure of Darkness for plants, or like the card I mentioned, it would really elevate it.

I think UDE, to some extent, is being held back either by Konami or lack of sales. Or both.

One question that I more or less know you can't answer, but I will try anyway, is this: Compared to now, what was UDE's profit margin on boxes, packs, and SD between SOD and POTD? It seems like then, when no card cost over $20 save Mirror Force, that everyone was happy because the game was cheap. Now, UDE sold out of an entire set, because the best card in it is incredibly rare. It seems like UDE must have lost a lot of money between then to force that change.

[JDGloom]

I will say thank you to UDE for one thing, though- Tins. Without them, my Crystal Beast deck would never have been possible. Thanks, UDE! Maybe if you keep making good things like tins, I'll start buying packs again? Please?

It's give and take, I guess. I was glad to see the most playable tournament-level cards in the latest round of Duelist Packs weren't Ultras, and that was probably because those are just aimed at a different demographic. I definitely hit eBay and bought three playsets of Hand Destruction. (I tend to build alot of decks... ._. ).

-Jason

[Minato Namikaze]

Some sources of this type of info are public, some are private. Press releases and some retailer responses can always be found on ICV2.com, which I think is an absolute must-read for anyone who's employed or contracts in this industry (I'm the latter). I also like gamingreport.com, albeit they're usually more about new gaming products than discussing performance of current stuff on the shelves.

-Jason



Obviously some information will be private due to the competitive nature of the gaming industry. But thanks for that, I'll be sure to read more articles online because it would give myself (and others if they wish to read) a chance to look deeper into UDE's decision making and possibly predicting future decisions if need be.

[Dr Doom]

I definitely hit eBay and bought three playsets of Hand Destruction. (I tend to build alot of decks... ._. ).

-Jason

Dont' feel that bad Jason, at least you're not like me and can't decide on what to build. Hence several uncompleted decks due to new ideas that outshine the previous ideas. It's like having some form ADHD, only you know what you're doing is wrong.

No offense intended to anyone who actually suffers from ADHD.

[Zoomer3989]

Doom, how did you get/make that hilarious James Bond spoof in your sig? And is there one of them playing YGO?

[Fluffanator7777]

MMM Her we go with another DAD debate ok Lone Soldier is right it all comes down to money. But the yugioh trading card game is known for another thing and I'll tell you. When they release a new set they dont balance out the set and rely on 1 huge uber broken card (in this case DAD) to make money and profit. What UDE needs to do is really play test these cards in all types of situations in the game and balance out the cards and its support tricks. We really didnt need the ban list, we needed to balance out the cards more thoroughly, but UDE took the quick route to make cash. That's it, so stop with the Dad crap Im tired of it. We need to get UDE to start balancing this game out then we will all stop complaining besides people who say if no one can face broken cards arent fit to play the game are in my minds cowards relying on cheap tactics and cheap cards to win are the ones who are really not fit to play the game. Now shut up about Dad's Im tired of Dad debates.

Additional Comment:

ooo if anyone message's me about what I said to try to debate with me make sure its intelligent if not dont waste my time.

[JDGloom]

One question that I more or less know you can't answer, but I will try anyway, is this: Compared to now, what was UDE's profit margin on boxes, packs, and SD between SOD and POTD? It seems like then, when no card cost over $20 save Mirror Force, that everyone was happy because the game was cheap. Now, UDE sold out of an entire set, because the best card in it is incredibly rare. It seems like UDE must have lost a lot of money between then to force that change.

No idea on hard numbers, but my thoughts are largely congruent with yours:

-Retailers and distributors indicated that sales for sets around/named Cyberdark Impact were down. In some cases, down massively.

-Reprint sets were made, tended not to sell well, and retailers hated them because they reprinted sets they already had in stock.

-UDE flat out said that the market didn't support the number of pre-con decks they were putting out each year. Retailers and distributors I've spoken with concurred, and as a result SD11 and SD12 were cut.

-Programming shifts for Yu-Gi-Oh! GX bounced all over the place, and ratings slid. The show was off the air at seemingly random intervals, damaging the strength of the brand.

Then, sets start to change. Suddenly UDE R&D is allowed to design cards like Grandmaster. SCRs reappear, sets are made larger in response to retailer requests, and two touring programs (The Time 2 Duel Tour and the Kids Time Xtreme Mall Tour) are run/opted into. As time goes on the sets get even bigger, with TCG exclusives and OCG promos that were formerly inaccessible due to contract issues with Shueisha. TV advertising picks up huge with STON spots, then Duelist Pack commercials.

Alot of stuff changed, relatively quickly. I don't think you change that much if your current formula is still working.

-Jason

Additional Comment:

MMM Her we go with another DAD debate ok Lone Soldier is right it all comes down to money. But the yugioh trading card game is known for another thing and I'll tell you. When they release a new set they dont balance out the set and rely on 1 huge uber broken card (in this case DAD) to make money and profit. What UDE needs to do is really play test these cards in all types of situations in the game and balance out the cards and its support tricks. We really didnt need the ban list, we needed to balance out the cards more thoroughly, but UDE took the quick route to make cash. That's it, so stop with the Dad crap Im tired of it. We need to get UDE to start balancing this game out then we will all stop complaining besides people who say if no one can face broken cards arent fit to play the game are in my minds cowards relying on cheap tactics and cheap cards to win are the ones who are really not fit to play the game. Now shut up about Dad's Im tired of Dad debates.


Remember, it's Konami that's responsible for set design, not UDE. UDE is a distributor of Konami's product with some degree of input, but a distributor nonetheless.

-Jason

[Dr Doom]

The only thing I find a little bit weird, is that Upperdeck Entertainment hasn't aired the commercials in Canada. Perhaps they may have aired on a different channel that I may not watch. But with a handicapped sister who's memory regarding something she saw on television six months ago, I don't believe they're on Canadian television.

The exception being the first commercial for the very first duel disk, but that was Matell as opposed to Upperdeck Entertainment.

[Minato Namikaze]

The only thing I find a little bit weird, is that Upperdeck Entertainment hasn't aired the commercials in Canada. Perhaps they may have aired on a different channel that I may not watch. But with a handicapped sister who's memory regarding something she saw on television six months ago, I don't believe they're on Canadian television.

The exception being the first commercial for the very first duel disk, but that was Matell as opposed to Upperdeck Entertainment.

They are mostly on Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon.

[JDGloom]

Hmm, that's an interesting thing to think about, the advertising in Canada (I'm a Canadian citizen myself).

Anyways, I need sleep, cause I gotta get a plane to Columbus pretty early tomorrow. See you guys!

-Jason

[Lone Soldier]

I suppose that's true. Soldier, I was kinda responding to how you insinuated UDE caused prices to skyrocket directly, since the price of packs is fairly consistant...

I really think UDE should not have made Secret Rares, but... At least keep it to two a set.

SD11 and SD12 were two of the most desireable structures of them all, in my opinion... I would have bought three of each. I really wanted to make my friend a Fairy deck, since she was a huge fan of them.

Also, cards pushed to Secrets because there's no where else to put them? That's kinda... Not smart.

I don't believe I said anything about packs, I was talking about how cards can be of worth one day, and then drop in another, basically how whatever the cards are, however the scheme, and through whomever, it is all for money, a cut throat business.

Additional Comment:

No idea on hard numbers, but my thoughts are largely congruent with yours:

-Retailers and distributors indicated that sales for sets around/named Cyberdark Impact were down. In some cases, down massively.

-Reprint sets were made, tended not to sell well, and retailers hated them because they reprinted sets they already had in stock.

-UDE flat out said that the market didn't support the number of pre-con decks they were putting out each year. Retailers and distributors I've spoken with concurred, and as a result SD11 and SD12 were cut.

-Programming shifts for Yu-Gi-Oh! GX bounced all over the place, and ratings slid. The show was off the air at seemingly random intervals, damaging the strength of the brand.

Then, sets start to change. Suddenly UDE R&D is allowed to design cards like Grandmaster. SCRs reappear, sets are made larger in response to retailer requests, and two touring programs (The Time 2 Duel Tour and the Kids Time Xtreme Mall Tour) are run/opted into. As time goes on the sets get even bigger, with TCG exclusives and OCG promos that were formerly inaccessible due to contract issues with Shueisha. TV advertising picks up huge with STON spots, then Duelist Pack commercials.

Alot of stuff changed, relatively quickly. I don't think you change that much if your current formula is still working.

-Jason


I agree. I believe they knew what they were doing, they knew there was going to be an avalanche in sales for a moment, but they knew as well that it was for all one big exlposion of mass produced miscellaneous prizes.

On a graph chart, the line was in Mellow Middle, Cyber Dark Impact comes out, line drops, increasingly, and then shoots back up after the last two packs, especially PTDN.

Psychologically, they brought CED back in the name of Dark Armed, because we are familiar with such play styles, being our instinct to thrive for the best and having been in that Meta before for a while, but this time they were able to increase their profit.

They always know what they are doing, with perhaps a few flaws.

[terryhead101]

My solution to secret rares is simple.Only 2 per set like before.Make more ultras and supers and commons too.Its ridiculous 10 per set.

[Alexander Anderson]

if they don't make secret rares you'll just get those sets like cyberdark impact again. nuff said.

Hows about they just don't mess with the rarities? I wouldn't care if they'd just do 2 secrets like way back when. Hell, I don't want 10 ultras per set either. I actually skipped buying any Phantom Darkness packs because of that. I used to have a 50% Chance at getting the ultras I needed when buying a box. Now? 20%, and secrets alone are 10% at getting what I want, with half of them being horrible. The percentages are too small for my likeing, so I just buy what I want. It's a lot cheaper than actually buying the packs. The only thing that Upperdeck is printing that's even worth buying now are structure decks and reprint packs (DB, DR, Gold Edition, etc.).

[Lone Soldier]

Ya, I agree with that one. I just buy them in singles at a Hobby Store. Normally that can be more expensive, but at the store I go to, you buy 3 cards, get one free.

Plus, no store I'm around would allow you to weigh the packs =/

[IlBlud]

yous speaks some good english in them der kentucky

Why, yes we do, good sir. Have a problem with it? :]

Oh, and the solution to Secrets? UDE needs to stop making them.