The Naruto CCG On A Decline?

[Justmcnew]

I was reading on the PlayTCG Forums and one of the pros posted a thread about the state of the Naruto CCG and that it may be dying due to the crisis of the meta right now.

http://www.playtcgforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9605

Sometimes the truth hurts, Dragonball Z is better than Naruto but is that any reason to quit? I play like 4-5 different TCG's including Magic and I don't have much of a problem with it.

Everyone is tired of the meta with almost every deck running the same early game in every deck, Gaara TN is hurting even more, things are just getting ugly right now.

It's actually weird cause the Naruto CCG is making a comeback in my area and almost all the pros are jumping ship to new TCG's cause Bandai isn't doing anything about the problems with the meta right now.

What do you guys think?

[Injured_Status]

I was reading on the PlayTCG Forums and one of the pros posted a thread about the state of the Naruto CCG and that it may be dying due to the crisis of the meta right now.

http://www.playtcgforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9605

Sometimes the truth hurts, Dragonball Z is better than Naruto but is that any reason to quit? I play like 4-5 different TCG's including Magic and I don't have much of a problem with it.

Everyone is tired of the meta with almost every deck running the same early game in every deck, Gaara TN is hurting even more, things are just getting ugly right now.

It's actually weird cause the Naruto CCG is making a comeback in my area and almost all the pros are jumping ship to new TCG's cause Bandai isn't doing anything about the problems with the meta right now.

What do you guys think?

The topic starter from the link stated that the game takes no skill. I don't believe that's true. Maybe for early game, but once you get into late game, you need at least a little bit of skill. But I do agree with his main idea. I don't play IM battles very much, but when I do, it's always the same stuff at the beginning. Formation cards, Naruto CoP/OLA, etc.

It's fine around here, though. There's no pros here and it's very casual. Everyone runs something different, and sometimes we switch to other decks. Heck, 80% of the time, they don't even play a ninja on Turn 0. Maybe that's why I win? :rolleyes:

[Justmcnew]

That's because the Naruto CCG doesn't take skill to play, in a sense it's almost like a comparison with YGO which I don't see entirely due to Naruto having balanced mechanics and a resource system similiar to Magic.

I still think it takes a little bit of skill to play and knowing what moves to make cause I still consider this game the closest thing to Chess that I ever played in terms of TCG's of course next to Marvel/DC Vs. System.

It's the early game that's hurting the game greatly, the Formation cards, Gaara TN, Naruto OLA/COP. It's "cookie cutter"ish like YGO in a sense...

[zabuza/haku]

Every game will have a decktype that will define the meta.
You either deal with it, or you quit.

[soulja boi tellem']

but see, its not the decktypes, its the early game if u even read, these decktypes are the farthest apart ever from eachother.

and just mcnew, dont EVER say yugioh takes no skill, i am a yugioh naruto player, and yugioh makes you think way to much when u have a hand filled with different starting plays, why do u think, even if dark armed is controlling the meta, only pros are t8ing still, please yugioh's mechs are not broken now S-tfu and learn what your talking about u can topdeck an ES for game in naruto u can topdeck a brain for game in yugioh.

[MultiTasker]

The topic starter from the link stated that the game takes no skill. I don't believe that's true. Maybe for early game, but once you get into late game, you need at least a little bit of skill. But I do agree with his main idea. I don't play IM battles very much, but when I do, it's always the same stuff at the beginning. Formation cards, Naruto CoP/OLA, etc.

It's fine around here, though. There's no pros here and it's very casual. Everyone runs something different, and sometimes we switch to other decks. Heck, 80% of the time, they don't even play a ninja on Turn 0. Maybe that's why I win? :rolleyes:

It's also because the few Turn 0's that they run are Kin and Baiu, and I have a habit of scooping :D.

I'd have to agree with this. Early game literally takes no skill, but late game is the time when skill become important. Unless you've had the whole game in the palm of your hand, you're going to need some talent to get out of those sticky situations that pop up.

and just mcnew, dont EVER say yugioh takes no skill, i am a yugioh naruto player, and yugioh makes you think way to much when u have a hand filled with different starting plays, why do u think, even if dark armed is controlling the meta, only pros are t8ing still, please yugioh's mechs are not broken now S-tfu and learn what your talking about u can topdeck an ES for game in naruto u can topdeck a brain for game in yugioh.

^ I'll admit some situations in YGO require skill, but most of it doesn't.

Have you ever heard of cheating? Some people are pretty good at it, and therefore win more often. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen in Naruto, but that could be a reason why some of the same "pros" win all the time. You could also credit their wins to better card pools, teammates helping them win, and more supplies to attend tournaments (A player could be good, but not attend a major tournament because it is five states away, for example).

As for the topdecking statement, think carefully about what you said. You picked cards that work in two different ways. A spell like Brain Control would be better compared to a Mission in Naruto instead of a Ninja. With Brain, you're taking their monster, so that they lose field advantage while you gain it. ES is simply another ninja with a very nice effect.

Let me give a quick example: If you topdecked Brain Control in YGO, you could steal the opponent's big monster and deal enough damage for game, even if they had five full zones. If you topdecked an ES in Naruto, but your opponent had a larger amount of ninjas by you than at least 3, then you're pretty much sunk if those ninjas they have are decent. You'd also be out of luck if you didn't have any cards in hand, unlike Brain Control.

So, at least in my opinion, YGO takes fairly little skill. It's just a game of overpowered cards, lucky moves, and whoever has the most money.

[kakashi pwned u]

i have a simple answer for u... no

[jim2069]

it is because of those pro players and cookie cutters that tha game is in this state if there were more casual style decks the game would be better.

ie water deck early game is actually water like it is suppose o be.

maybe we need i limit list 1 gaara tin per deck, 1 choji us form per deck, etc.

[Hyourinmaru]

it is because of those pro players and cookie cutters that tha game is in this state if there were more casual style decks the game would be better.

ie water deck early game is actually water like it is suppose o be.

maybe we need i limit list 1 gaara tin per deck, 1 choji us form per deck, etc.

No. Limiting ruins games. When cards are limited, the game then becomes a game of luck. Whoever gets their limited card first wins.

In a game like Naruto you either ban or errata problem cards.

[jim2069]

ban cards= why bother print in first place save the tree man.:D

[MeGaMaRiK]

ban cards= why bother print in first place save the tree man.:D

Don't be an idiot.

As for DBZ being better than Naruto, that is a simple opinion.

[Justmcnew]

it is because of those pro players and cookie cutters that tha game is in this state if there were more casual style decks the game would be better.

ie water deck early game is actually water like it is suppose o be.

maybe we need i limit list 1 gaara tin per deck, 1 choji us form per deck, etc.

So you're saying Naruto is turning into YGO, and Bandai isn't doing their job fixing the game cause they're too busy with the Dragonball CCG?

Yeah that sounds about right actually. Seriously though what are Bandai's playtesters thinking? what part about power creep being bad for the game do they not understand? O_o

Check this thread from PlayTCG out to see where I'm getting at:

http://www.playtcgforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8270

[Max Gamache]

Naruto is not dead it just depends on where you play it at.

[Shy Guy]

I was reading on the PlayTCG Forums and one of the pros posted a thread about the state of the Naruto CCG and that it may be dying due to the crisis of the meta right now.


Well there's your problem. You're still taking the pros word as if it were the Bible. Seriously dude, form your own opinion. If the game is making a comeback in your area than is it dying?

Quit linking to PlayTCG. Seriously, we are all capable of going to it ourselves and reading it. We get it, the pros are worried about the state of the game. The normal players are too, I may not be a big name in Naruto but I think I've made enough valid points about cards being too overpowered to last a lifetime.

[Justmcnew]

The game isn't dying in my area (well kinda) but I've been worried about the meta and I'm trying to keep tabs of whats going on though.

Alright I'm done talking right now... -_-

[black_chaos_dragon]

We're actually growing in my area. We finally have Chunin and higher in the upper Midwest. Of course the game has some problems, most games do.

[Hobbes]

The game has problems, but locally we are exponentially growing :)

Our shop owner told us to only come twice a month (there are tourtaments every week) becuase the tourtaments are getting bigger and he is running out of room :p

[Element_Master]

Well around my area a lot of people are just joining and I was thinking bout quiting a few times but then a new set comes out and then I say what the heck. even though it's not has much fun, when a new set comes out it become really fun again...I don't know why it just does. Also with every set my deck become better, as I become better stargazer. So it's like most games...It has it's weak moments but then it has a come back :D like always ;)

[Underbheit Henchman]

In my area it's been a struggle from the beginning. We started with a terrible Tournament Organizer/Venue and by the time we were able to remedy the problem we were down to only 5 or 6 players. We've since been able to increase the ranks to about 8 or 9. I'm hoping the new set, with its promotions for new players will help with recruitment.

In our area one of our major concerns is trying not to intimidate people with the word "Tournament". We'll get people who buy cards to collect or play at home or at school, but won't go to official tournaments. Has this been the same in your areas as well?

[Shy Guy]

That and we get the players who want to play, but they also want to win without trying, so they tend to not go to the tournaments that we attend. So it makes our playerbase divided. That and card games besides Magic have never been huge in our area anyways.

[fuumankage]

Hey, I'm the "pro" (lol) who started this whole thread. I acutally posted it out of concern, becuase after a long talk witha top tier player on aim (Zounder) i felt he argued an amazing point as to why the game will die, and others agreed with him. IMO the game is doing ok, and the meta really isn't that awful. And the game takes enough skill, that other card games aren't really harder at all. The biggest problem, and this is where I AGREED with zero, though I feel he did ALOT of unnecessary whining, it's coming down to who can drop the biggest bomb first. Even though truly skilled players can sometimes work out of it, the power creeps they MAY introduce to the game can kill it, right now it's a waiting game, i just hope the chosen rumors aren't true.

*Playerbase wise, the game is actually doing well, but we have a VERY unclear future

[Eternal Darkness]

Naruto has been a solid game with balanced mechanics. I haven't been in the game for a while, but I know the state of the game isn't all that great right now.

I am playing Yugioh right now, and it's pretty much the same way. I don't really know how you can compare the two games since Yugioh is way more lucksackish than Naruto ever will be, but Bandai doing multiple games and not mending the current situation doesn't help all that much in my opinion. Who knows though.

[Hobbes]

Quite frankly though, people are always speculating that the TCG they are in is declining (I have seen it in Yu-Gi-OH, Magic and Naruto), and they are obviously (at least in the first two, we will see about the last) wrong...

People like superstitions, it generates controversy and maybe interesting arguements

[Shy Guy]

Hey, I'm the "pro" (lol) who started this whole thread. I acutally posted it out of concern, becuase after a long talk witha top tier player on aim (Zounder) i felt he argued an amazing point as to why the game will die, and others agreed with him. IMO the game is doing ok, and the meta really isn't that awful. And the game takes enough skill, that other card games aren't really harder at all. The biggest problem, and this is where I AGREED with zero, though I feel he did ALOT of unnecessary whining, it's coming down to who can drop the biggest bomb first. Even though truly skilled players can sometimes work out of it, the power creeps they MAY introduce to the game can kill it, right now it's a waiting game, i just hope the chosen rumors aren't true.

*Playerbase wise, the game is actually doing well, but we have a VERY unclear future

Power creeps don't always contribute to a game dying. It's a factor but if the major problems were taken care of than a bit of a power creep wouldn't affect it too badly.

BTW, I just noticed the original post stated that DBZ was better than Naruto as if it were fact. I happen to disagree with that, I don't find DBZ all that entertaining. It was way too slow for my liking because of all the extra crap they added into the episodes.

[Justmcnew]

Well that's your opinion, DBZ has been around longer than Naruto has and it was one of the first anime series to break out in the U.S. and create the anime/manga phenomenon here in the U.S. as well.

DBZ is still one of my favorite anime/manga series of all time, I grew up watching DBZ on CN's Toonami and I still play Score's version of it too.

[Shy Guy]

Well of course it's my opinion, just like you have your's. I just didn't like the way your first post was worded because you made the direct statement "DBZ is better than Naruto". I was just never a huge fan of Dragonball Z because it moved really slow. It was watchable, but it's not on my list of favorites of even my top anime lists. But that's why it's my favorites or my list of top anime.

[DOA362]

My only concern is that they are bringing out DBZ to counter the end of Naruto.

[hidden mist haku]

Nothing will end Naruto.

After speaking with many people, and heard many negative comments I've decided that they game is incredible. Yes, there are negative people, and we need those people to point out flaws, but right now just be positive. Years, and years of Naruto will continue, and the game will only get better.

Yes, the US released some broken cards, but look at the meta compared to RR, where there weren't US cards. Bandai fixed the game, yes fixed it. They had a bumpy start, but are getting better.

[Justmcnew]

If that's true then how come James and Bandai are lying on their butts doing nothing about the current meta crisis?

I even went as far as posting another PM to James at the Bandai site and he still won't listen. It's obvious that Bandai is in denial over the fact that sometimes banning cards helps the game to an extent they're just too afraid that it will end up something like YGO where Konami and UDE kept abusing the banhammer too much.

Problem with banning cards in YGO was that UDE and Konami got carried away using the banhammer and when you're a R&D team working for a TCG/CCG you don't ever overuse the banhammer cause banning cards is meant to be used as a last resort which Konami and UDE failed at.

Though I know the truth hurts sometimes, the reason why UDE and Konami abused the banhammer in YGO was due to YGO being unbalanced with no resource system in the first place until almost everyone noticed at the last minute back in '04.

(* Spoiler Alert below *)

From what I can tell Kishi is somewhat ruining the Naruto series over in Japan:

Less detailed illustrations, semi-good opening and ending themes, even Naruto Uzumaki is so weak that even Sasuke and Sakura are way stronger than him.

Sasuke is at least Anbu level, Sakura is close Special Jonin but she's still a Chunin, and Naruto didn't learn jack squat when he was training with Jiraiya before Part 2 started. Guess whose to blame? Madara, the 4th, and the nine-tailed fox.

Then again, most of Naruto's failures are what he couldn't control or were beyond his reach. I'm talking about his jutsu, or inability to learn them. He is a unique character with unique situation (no parents, no friends, loneliness, only Kyuubi), so it's understandable in some way.

Naruto is too busy trying to save Sasuke because of the test he put on himself being that If he can't save Sasuke and bring him back to Konoha then that would only prove that he doesn't have what it takes to be hokage.

When Naruto finds out about what happened to Jiraiya and trains with the toads then we'll see the true Naruto Uzumaki, the one we missed from Part 1 where he was also the witty and cunning unpredictable ninja that we loved before.

I know the Sasuke v. Itachi fight was good, and so was Jiraiya v. Pein which needed to get through but it just irks me sometimes how weak Naruto is compared to Sasuke.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the series so far has been a wild goose chase except for a couple of decent battles of course.

I'm done talking about that, though I know it was kinda off-topic I just wanted to get it off my chest. >_>

[Shady]

Nothing will end Naruto.

After speaking with many people, and heard many negative comments I've decided that they game is incredible. Yes, there are negative people, and we need those people to point out flaws, but right now just be positive. Years, and years of Naruto will continue, and the game will only get better.

Yes, the US released some broken cards, but look at the meta compared to RR, where there weren't US cards. Bandai fixed the game, yes fixed it. They had a bumpy start, but are getting better.

Some people are just overreacting, especially over Kabuto. There's no denying that he's awesome but he's nothing like Gaara.

[Justmcnew]

To be honest the new Kabuto is good enough to become a staple in almost every deck. Plus he straightens your curve nicely when combined with Sakura ADP.

[Underbheit Henchman]

I think this thread is on the decline. Why waste time speculating over the demise of a game. If you really think it's going to decline don't play. Sell/Trade off your stuff and jump ship.

The "META CRISIS" you're referring too isn't really terrible if you ask me. I think new cards could be just as good a solution as banning. Wait and see what Bandai decides to do. Pretend you're a doctor and have patience.

Addressing the new Kabuto, it's above average but it cycles through 1 card a turn... is this really worth calling it a staple? ADP cycles as many as 6 a turn and it's still not considered a staple. Water already has a decent stock of 2+ ninjas. I still prefer Kabuto [Withdrawal] or Yoroi. I'd be more interested in some better cards for the drops elements are missing power... which I guess is Water turn 0, Lightning turn 3?

[Shy Guy]

Making new cards to counter powerful cards is a poor answer to banning.

On the Kabuto subject the thought that he might be considered a staple is rediculous. Yes he's good. He's not staple material though as some people prefer Withdrawl and some people might not use him in off-color decks.

A mod should come in and lock this thread, it's really going downhill as Henchman said.

[Hobbes]

OK, lets pretend I am a doctor (I am just that smart, graduated college and got my doctorate by 14 :p), the first step is knowing there is a problem...

OK.... There is a problem

The next step is diagnosing the problem

This is a little trickier. There are many different things that the naruto game is "sick" with. Some people think it is Bandai's lack of attention or the lack of a new player base making it a shrinking game. For know, lets say it is Bandai's lack of attention.

To cure Bandai's lack of attention, we can be a surgeon and remove the problem (banning the most obvious problem, Gaara [TN] ), we can take antibiotics and be cured over a period of time (circulating new cards that aren't better then Gaara [TN], but ones that can counter his effect) or we can let the sickness run its course, which, for bacteria, is never a good thing and it could end with naruto dying. Know, this is worst-case scenario, but we must be prepared if this happens and maybe intervene quickly if we realize it goes south. Right now, we have just been prescribed some antibiotics (The Chosen) and we were told to see if we become cured.

So, doctor's orders are to rest, relax and wait for the outcome, we may need surgery later...


On another note, many people are complaining over choji, not just Gaara [TN], but, as far as I can tell, this may not be a problem as choji was not broken before Gaara [TN] came out so he obviously does not need an errata if Gaara [TN] is fixed

[Justmcnew]

I've decided to take a break from playing Naruto cause I'm fed up with the meta right now. That and I think I'm starting to lose interest in the Naruto anime/manga series as well due to what I've been reading lately in the Japanese Manga up to now.

I haven't been able to come up with a new deck idea for Naruto lately cause it's somewhat hard to find some good ones that not everyone is playing in the meta.

Taijutsu still loses against Fire, Water, and possibly Wind and it's still not tier 1, neither is Mental but it actually fares well a few times every now and then.
Any fun deck I try to build will be jank no matter what.

Oh well, can one of the Mods please lock this thread?

[Kingdom-Hearts]

i seriously like just got my first naruto starter deck casue i liked the show so i thought the game would be fun. now with all this talk about the current state of the game and the amount of players.......maybe i shouldnt bother and just stick to magic and yugioh.

[hidden mist haku]

i seriously like just got my first naruto starter deck casue i liked the show so i thought the game would be fun. now with all this talk about the current state of the game and the amount of players.......maybe i shouldnt bother and just stick to magic and yugioh.
The game is more diverse than YGO right now.

5 Meta Decks, and the new set will surely bring more, and they're still complaining.

Yes, I don't like some cards like Kabs and Kurenai, but really those 2 cards won't destroy the game. This thread is talking about the card game as a whole going down, which it isn't. Its skyrocketed up, yah some not-so-good-for-the-game cards are coming out, buy hey, they aren't broken.

[the_griffins]

wat is meta game

[Crossbow]

IMHO...

There are certain areas where the Naruto TCG/CCG needs some drastic improvements. In my personal opinion those areas are (in no particular order):

1. Too many cards becoming "staples."

2. Too many people relying on the "meta" to dictate their deck choices.

3. Too many commons/uncommons that should be higher rarity (and many SRs that should be only rare at best).

4. Too many poorly-done reprints.

First, we need to get rid of the whole "staple/meta" ideology. While there are a variety of undeniably great cards always destined to become "icons," it isn't good when those cards become the "include me in every deck" kind of cards. There are a few people in my area who absolutely lack any ability to come up with their own deck(s) and always look to the "meta" decks. How do they think those "meta" decks came around? They were original at some point.
Second, Bandai needs to seriously look at their rarity system. And, they need to put more thought into how easy-to-get some cards are. For instance, Shikamaru [Formation] should NEVER have been a common. That card very clearly screams "abuse me in every deck." I would argue that all 3 of the [US Formation] cards should have been Rares at least. The Tsunade [Big Tree] should have been more of a Rare considering how devastating the effect can be in many circumstances (2-for-1 against cards like Twin Snake Sacrifice).

However, Naruto is still a great game. As with any newer game like Naruto, it takes a while for TCGs to come into their own. And, you are always going to have times when the game seems "unpopular" as well as times when there are lots of new people jumping into the game.

[Hobbes]

wat is meta game

The meta game is simply the state of the game

Additional Comment:

IMHO...

There are certain areas where the Naruto TCG/CCG needs some drastic improvements. In my personal opinion those areas are (in no particular order):

1. Too many cards becoming "staples."

2. Too many people relying on the "meta" to dictate their deck choices.

3. Too many commons/uncommons that should be higher rarity (and many SRs that should be only rare at best).

4. Too many poorly-done reprints.

First, we need to get rid of the whole "staple/meta" ideology. While there are a variety of undeniably great cards always destined to become "icons," it isn't good when those cards become the "include me in every deck" kind of cards. There are a few people in my area who absolutely lack any ability to come up with their own deck(s) and always look to the "meta" decks. How do they think those "meta" decks came around? They were original at some point.
Second, Bandai needs to seriously look at their rarity system. And, they need to put more thought into how easy-to-get some cards are. For instance, Shikamaru [Formation] should NEVER have been a common. That card very clearly screams "abuse me in every deck." I would argue that all 3 of the [US Formation] cards should have been Rares at least. The Tsunade [Big Tree] should have been more of a Rare considering how devastating the effect can be in many circumstances (2-for-1 against cards like Twin Snake Sacrifice).

However, Naruto is still a great game. As with any newer game like Naruto, it takes a while for TCGs to come into their own. And, you are always going to have times when the game seems "unpopular" as well as times when there are lots of new people jumping into the game.

Well, I do agree about your key points, but your examples were all wrong...

Shikamaru [Formation] was, at the release of ER, the most sought after, but quickly went down to being the least with choji and ino ahead...

The only reason many started playing this shika was to counter Gaara [TN] and I know if people stop using gaara [TN], I will drop my shika counter from 3 in every deck to 1-2...

Also, Tsunade [Big Tree] is good, but it is not necessarly a rare, your opponent has to be stupid enough to activate it half the time -_-

Staples only exist early game, the late game is where the decks become diverse

When has net-decking ever not been a problem in a card game?

I think that Bandai has done a good job with rarity so far, I already pointed out the flaws in your thinking, however, there are cards that should be play-tested more thoughtfully, but that is a different matter as it shouldn't have to do with rarity and the only pack that had supers that shouldn't be supers was QFP (well, the majority in that pack were)

Right now, the thing that pisses me off the most in The Chosen and collecting all the cards in it, that makes me angry

Poorly down reprints? What are you even trying to say?

[Justmcnew]

I don't know If I already pointed this out but the playtesters at Bandai are HORRIBLE. Yes I said it, they wouldn't know what was balanced or broken unless someone smacked some sense into them.

I think I already cleared up on what problems the game is facing right now but to be honest If you ask me I think it's starting to become a poor man's version of YGO where you don't end up having to pour $1,000 just to play a really good deck.

Another thing that's hurting this game in a sense is the anime/manga series itself, just read Naruto Shippuuden up to Chapter 395 and either you might still like it or you don't. To me it's been a huge disappointment, I've expected better but Kishi is fail sadly.

It just doesn't have the exciting action and hardcoreness that Dragonball Z has which IMO is the better series, it's been around longer, and has a bigger fanbase than Naruto does.

You can disagree with me all you want but I speak the truth.

[Shady]

3. Too many commons/uncommons that should be higher rarity (and many SRs that should be only rare at best).

If all the good commons/uncommons were rares or higher, this game would be like Yu-Gi-Oh :\

[Hobbes]

The truth is relative to your perspective and experiences

Your truth can be someone else's lie

[Justmcnew]

So you think I'm lying for someone else or I'm not telling the truth myself and you probably think I'm a hypocrite?

I've never lied about anything in my entire life. Me, my family, and friends know that I'm a very honest person, infact I've always been honest the majority of the time.

[MeGaMaRiK]

I don't know If I already pointed this out but the playtesters at Bandai are HORRIBLE.
They may not be horrible.. but when you change rulings (this is how Gaara got broken, battling&opposed effects), you change the game.

I think I already cleared up on what problems the game is facing right now but to be honest If you ask me I think it's starting to become a poor man's version of YGO where you don't end up having to pour $1,000 just to play a really good deck.
You shouldn't have to pour out $1000 to win a CARD game.

Another thing that's hurting this game in a sense is the anime/manga series itself
The game won't go on forever. Eventually things die out, plus the only thing the anime has to do with the card game is the pictures of the cards and when they will be released.

It just doesn't have the exciting action and hardcoreness that Dragonball Z has which IMO is the better series, it's been around longer, and has a bigger fanbase than Naruto does.
Well let's see. Blowing people up with energy balls and blowing yourself up is much more intense than throwing knives. This is obvious. HOWEVER, the only reason it has a bigger fanbase is because it was out first.

You can disagree with me all you want but I speak the truth.
You're voicing your opinion here. You even stated it above, "IMO". You believe what you want, and we'll believe what we want :)

[jim2069]

it is on a decline they have made a rule change the guy that goes first does not draw his first turn.

[Shady]

Bandai's playtesters are horrible. I mean, even one of them said that Caged Bird and Haku Camo are counters to FPS =/

Additional Comment:

it is on a decline they have made a rule change the guy that goes first does not draw his first turn.

IMO, that rule change is for the better. The player who went first had the advantage because they get to deploy a ninja and draw a card.

Only thing that sucks about this rule is that my NaruSaku deck got a little weaker T__T

Oh well...

[jim2069]

player one deploying ninja is not advantage it is disadvantage as player 2 knows what you have played.
ie player one play sasuke then player 2 play choji usform
player one plays choji usform player 2 then can play shika iq200

player 1 old disadvantages
player one had to give up a play showing a ninja and charging chakra so you know what he could do.
player one also would deck first.

player 2 advantage
gets to see what player 1 will play and counter.
and he gets first attack. which is major plus.

i always pick go second attack first is awesome.

now player 1 disadvantages
disadvantage at hand especially if you have to reload.

player 2 advantage
hand advantage

dude i love going second but they just ruined it now everybody will pick second so know i have to win coin toss or jinken (aka rps) before even if I lost the other guy picked first so i still got my way.

[Injured_Status]

it is on a decline they have made a rule change the guy that goes first does not draw his first turn.

I heard about that. It's probably an April Fools joke.

[Crossbow]

Well, if you are truly looking for a good area where the meta rarely applies... except for TWO people where I play, most of the people don't even care that the Internet/Pojo exists. Yes, I am serious. Heck, I, myself, even attempted to make a Shadow Clone (Illegal) deck using 3x all 3 kinds.

What needs to happen is for people to start going out on branches with decks. I was *the first* person in my store to consistantly play Wind/Earth (pre-Tsunade) and have turned a previously unpopular deck type into a very much kick-butt deck.

In this case, Bandai is the one at fault for making certain cards so abusable. But, that doesn't mean the game is in a decline.

[maker of swords]

its not a joke, the rule is confirmed, i like the rule.

[Justmcnew]

There's actually two new rulings confirmed by Bandai, one is the new card draw ruling about what happens when someone goes first or something like that.

The other is the new Time Limit Ruling for Chunin and higher events sanctioned by Bandai. How it works is that match times are now cut to 45 minute rounds and the top 8 will now only have 55 minute rounds instead of the old rule Swiss time which was 55 minutes and top 8 was either no limit or 70 minutes.

[Injured_Status]

its not a joke, the rule is confirmed, i like the rule.

Well, I don't.

I'll only be content with this if they do something about Choji. I've been having too many early-game Choji battles with my friend when we battle. The second player already starts out with attacking. And, since the attacker starts in the Exchange of Jutsu, he/she has the advantage. Now he/she has card advantage?

[Shady]

I think the new rule is a fair one. The tempo of being ahead on Ninjas as well as playing your Missons first cause your turn counter moves up first is what gave the player who went first an advantage.

[Injured_Status]

I think the new rule is a fair one. The tempo of being ahead on Ninjas as well as playing your Missons first cause your turn counter moves up first is what gave the player who went first an advantage.

It would be a fair one... Once they errata Choji so that it gets damaged immediately.

[Shady]

I agree that there are some more pressing matters that need to be taken care of such as Gaara and Choji, as well as a CRD that will clearly spell everything out instead of seeing the same FAQ posts over and over again.

[Justmcnew]

Score made a CRD for the old Dragonball Z and Dragonball GT card games, why can't Bandai be smart and make their own CRD to help the Naruto CCG in a sense?

[hidden mist haku]

I really wouldn't be surprised if they are working on all of these things. I was hoping erratas would have come by the MN Jonin, but oh well. A CRD is NEEDED, but the new draw rule shows that they are trying to fix every aspect of the game. I really think this is a huge positive, it came out of no where (For me).

[Chazz_P<--DaOriginal]

Ok well I have played alot of card games, and frankly other then the early game there isn't many dominating deck types I like that with the right build a taijutsu deck can win. But as for the people complaning about dominant deck types this brings me to a storie its about MMORPG's but replace Jobs with Deck types. and it applies here.

Balance Schmalance

We appreciate feedback.

We really do.

Indeed, we wait with bated breath for your suggestions on how we can make the game better.

Sometimes, it’s good.

Except replace the word "sometimes" with the word "rarely".

My particular favorite is the many (many, many, MANY) suggestions we get on how to "balance" the job system.

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to create balance in a system that has 20 entirely different job classes?

They have different abilities.

With different roles.

One might even say they were DIFFERENT JOBS.

Suppose your house was on fire.

No, it’s not really on fire. Sit back down.

It’s a metaphor, stupid.

So, your house is on fire.

A firefighter shows up.

A police officer.

Maybe a paramedic.

And then a shoe salesman.

Yes.

A shoe salesman.

Now, a shoe salesman might not be as helpful in this type of situation.

BurnVictim>> Someone help me!
BurnVictim>> I’m hurt!
ShoeSalesman>> You know what you need?
ShoeSalesman>> Sneakers.

But he shows up anyway.

And then starts complaining that he’s not as helpful as the other people there.

ShoeSalesman>> This is so unfair.
ShoeSalesman>> Damned firefighters with the...
ShoeSalesman>> Saving people...
ShoeSalesman>> From fire...

He starts going on all the fire-fighting related forums.

Post Title: Fire fighting unbalanced

y is it every time there’s a fire, everyone invites the firemen? they should totally nerf firefighters.

Then he starts calling up the fire department.

ShoeSalesman>> I have some good ideas on how to balance the fire fighting system.
ShoeSalesman>> They should adjust the strength of the fire.
ShoeSalesman>> Or maybe make the fire weak to... shoes.
FireChief>> Have you lost your mind?
ShoeSalesman>> That totally wouldn’t make shoe salesmen overpowered.
ShoeSalesman>> We’d just be a viable job class.
FireChief>> I’m going to hang up now.

There are situations where a shoe salesman would be helpful.

You need a new pair of nikes? Helpful.

You need a nice pair of high heels? Helpful.

You need someone to keep you from burning to death? Not so much.

But the shoe salesman still expects you to completely revamp the entire system to make them more "balanced".

Here is how I might respond to the aforementioned shoe salesman:

GET ANOTHER DAMNED JOB!

If you want to fight fires, BECOME A FIREMAN!

I hate people.

Tomorrow, I’m going to go kick a shoe salesman in the balls.

Hard.

And when he asks for medical help, I’m calling a dry cleaner.

Let’s see how he feels about balance then.

[[~]Ce-Ge-Unit..y?[~]]

In my area, so many people quit Yu-gi-oh because of the current meta, and ban list. Alot of people in my area are starting back up in naruto. there are like 3 metadecks out in yu gi oh, Dark, D-fissure, and OTK, and bringing back monster reborn killed the game more.

I'm sure Naruto will be fine as long as they don't do something stupid like, make OTK decks.

[MeGaMaRiK]

Chazz you have a point, but why so long of a post =\

CeGe, OTK in Naruto is basically FPS.

[[~]Ce-Ge-Unit..y?[~]]

Does it win on turn 0?

[maker of swords]

Ce-Ge-Unit..y?[~];8828590']Does it win on turn 0?

depends, the earlier it goes off the more like that person wins unless the oponet keeps drawing awsome ninja.

[[~]Ce-Ge-Unit..y?[~]]

OTK wins on the first turn, without your opponent being able to stop it, which is why its called OTK, and that's exactly why Magical scientist is banned, because it is the best, and cheapest OTK deck possible, giving it a basic auto win.

[Hobbes]

With FPS, you usually don't win until turn 2, 3 or so...

It is not OTK, but it is damned annoying :p

[Justmcnew]

Most of the time you want to sideboard against FPS by running stuff like Carrier Kites and Released Seals.

[[~]Ce-Ge-Unit..y?[~]]

So its not like good game, like Last turn, Magical scientist, magical explosion, or any other OTK, its more like a chaos deck for yu gi oh comparisons?

so what does FPS stand for?

[Justmcnew]

FPS means Five-Pronged Seal or as my area liked to call it "Captain Planet" cause it revolves around all the 5 Elements in the game due to being revolved around the jutsu the deck is based on which is Five-Pronged Seal.

In all honesty though I wouldn't even bother with YGO anymore, many reasons of which I don't feel like explaining but it'd be a long story to talk about anyway.

FPS isn't that big of a threat cause there's ways to counter against it especially with Gigantic Fan, Sharingan Eye J-007, among other tech cards.

[Shady]

The other is the new Time Limit Ruling for Chunin and higher events sanctioned by Bandai. How it works is that match times are now cut to 45 minute rounds and the top 8 will now only have 55 minute rounds instead of the old rule Swiss time which was 55 minutes and top 8 was either no limit or 70 minutes.

45 minute rounds is a lot better than the 30 minute rounds that I just had for my Chunin =/

[Justmcnew]

I still don't get why some of the players are complaining about it though, it's not like it effects Academy, Genin, and Meijin Challenge Tournaments. Though I could see why it could be a problem for the most strategic players in Naruto that evened their curve in Chunin or higher events.

Much of the controversy was that the top players didn't want their games decided by time but by winning the game through BR's instead by making the most strategic plays to win it all.

That's part of the problem and why alot of players were disappointed by this new ruling.

[[~]Ce-Ge-Unit..y?[~]]

So in FPS do you run three Haku [Kekkai Genkai blood line trait] from path? so it can't be negated? cause if they didn't, couldn't you just like ground fissure, since on turn two, its most likely a genin ninja? I don't really see the problem with it, unless I actually played an FPS deck, I'd be thinking of random counters, that mostly likely wouldn't happen in a real match.

[Justmcnew]

Before Eternal Rivalry came out alot of people were running
Haku [Kekkei Genkai: Bloodline Trait] from Path to Hokage in FPS decks but now they run Rock Lee [High Speed Move] instead cause he comes out 2 turns earlier than Haku does with a very similiar effect.

Ground Fissure is good in today's Naruto meta strictly cause 2/3rds of everyone's decks consist of Genin Ninja so it would also be ideal for tech against FPS as well.

I've heard rumors as to why FPS came in 1st at the NJ Jonin, either the other Top 8 players weren't sideboarding against it or they were too concerned with teching against Gaara TN and Choji instead. Not sure how to answer that one, just an assumption.

[maker of swords]

yea FPS is not broken, if you dont play it early enough then your oponet not having a hand wont matter if you cant break thorugh their ninja. once i played FPS three times in the same game and still lost because i didnt play it early enough and he kept pulling ninja.

[Hobbes]

yea FPS is not broken, if you dont play it early enough then your oponet not having a hand wont matter if you cant break thorugh their ninja. once i played FPS three times in the same game and still lost because i didnt play it early enough and he kept pulling ninja.

Wow, that is really unlucky

[MeGaMaRiK]

There are many ways a FPS deck can stop negation Jutsu as well.. so the main tech against FPS is missions nowadays.

[Shady]

Yup, siding in Jutsus to stop Prong isn't very effective as Prong decks can get around Jutsus by using Kiba, Emi, Kaji, etc.

Missions such as Released Seal and Unfading Affection are pretty good counters. Or even Ninjas like Sakura [Det to Protect].

[MeGaMaRiK]

Only problem with Sakura Det to Protect is you're hand will still be removed, as same with Unfading Affection =\

[Shady]

Nope, not anymore. Wheat changed the ruling yet again. So if the ninja can't be removed, the hand stays.

[Justmcnew]

All these ruling changes, seriously this game needs a CRD and stick with it.

It's bad enough that Mr. Wheat can't make up his mind on certain card rulings and it almost makes the rulings as complex as in YGO where there's like 1,000 card rulings to set straight.

[Shy Guy]

Yes, the game needs a solid rules database where every card ruling can be looked up. Also, they need to decide the rules for each card and then enter them in the database so we don't have anymore flip flopping on rules.

[Crossbow]

This discussion reminds me of a frequent conversation between a friend and myself. Usually, the conversation involves my friend complaining about certain cards being far more powerful than they should... certain ninjas not getting enough attention... blah blah blah. In essence, he is one of those people who believes the game is horrible unless every card and/or ruling caters to his personal preferences.

My answer to such nonsense is "Sit down. Be quiet. Stop complaining and learn to deal with it."

I often voice my opinion that Wind/Earth has been getting so many good cards that I would have to almost build 10 different decks to fit all of it in a deck.
In fact, while there are some cards which are almost too powerful, there are a ton of great cards that everyone overlooks. This game is, by no means, on a decline. Rather, it has simply been highjacked by the same people who can do nothing but jump on the "meta" bandwagon. That doesn't mean the game is perfect. It just means that the same thing is happening to any popular TCG. People start abusing the "cheap" combos and taking away the fun of the game.

However, to suggest that the Naruto TCG/CCG is on a decline is to totally ignore the fact that there are tons of people besides you who play the game. It also totally ignores the fact that Bandai is gearing up to reprint a whole bunch of cards from previous sets. That move, by far (IMHO), levels the playing field. The reason some combos are (currently) so "cheap" is because not everyone has the ability to spend gobs of money acquiring the best stuff. With the reprints, we will begin to see some quality non-bandwagon decks.

Naruto TCG is only a couple years old. Don't give up just yet.

[Justmcnew]

From the looks of it Wind/Earth just got better than ever, If you buy the current Naruto Collector Magazine which has buttloads of preview cards from The Chosen then you'll know what I'm talking about.

Hinata in Captivity, oh my God. One of the best Earth Missions ever but it's costly that it's a Super, budget wise you're better off with Caged Bird. Still for a Permanent 3 Mission your Opponent cannot gain any Battle Rewards for 2-3 turns unless they discard 2 cards from their hand to get rid of Hinata in Captivity, very nice.

The new Zabuza Momochi [Suicide Attack] not to mention his flavor text is win, is very good with Jonins' Intervention in Fire/Water to help counter against Gaara/Shika/Cho on Turn 1 or 2. Sadly it might not be the answer we're looking for though.

The new 4 drop Anbu Kakashi is tight as well, not to mention a new Wind Jutsu that might be better than Gigantic Fan which can ricochet 8 Trigram among sorts. Ok I'm going off-topic so I'll end it there. :p

[MeGaMaRiK]

Nope, not anymore. Wheat changed the ruling yet again. So if the ninja can't be removed, the hand stays.

Sigh... again?

Well, I suppose FPS would be a bit overpowered if you could still get rid of the hand even with Unfading Affection on the field -.-