New rules for younger players

[Eric Engelmann]

My 9-year-old son, Noah, had what I think is an interesting idea to encourage younger children to compete in Yu-Gi-Oh, and stimulate sales in several ways.

His friends try to attend local tournaments, but get so badly crushed by older players that they become discouraged and turn to other games. Noah's idea was to change the rules for children under the age of 10 for non-premiere events only. Noah suggested that children under 10 would not have to follow the restricted lists for UDE sanctioned local tournaments.

Advantages:
1. Young kids would have a chance to play competitively, and even pro players would have to scramble to figure out how to beat their power cards.
2. Young kids often arrive now with illegal decks. If rules were changed, this would no longer be a problem.
3. Banned cards would again have some utility, even in areas where there is no traditional tourney competition. Kids would be eager to get Dark Hole, Pot of Greed, etc.
4. At the discretion of the TO, a child would be graduated to the restricted list if he has demonstrated, through victories, that he no longer needs a handicap.
5. The rule change could be simply implemented. Just a single sentence added to the Restricted List would do it.

This is a pretty radical change, and so will surely require a lot of discussion; however, based on my observations playing the game in the last year, it looks like a win-win-win to me.

[Siulzen]

That's a nice idea for the young:).

It will show them how fun the game can be:D.

Got someone to apply this?

[Dark Marik 07]

then you get those genius kids who play and would come up with the Yata Lock and overkill everyone.

[Siulzen]

then you get those genius kids who play and would come up with the Yata Lock and overkill everyone.

Well...when you put it that way:(...

[Xing*]

When Austin Kulman won National's, he's only a year older than 10. This idea worries me... I could live with this rule if it's only 8 (MAYBE 9) & under.

[Eyesh]

When Austin Kulman won National's, he's only a year older than 10. This idea worries me... I could live with this rule if it's only 8 (MAYBE 9) & under.

9 and under would work for me. You give the small fries good cards, and then we have uses for everything. I would be very happy with a new type of challenge like that.

[DFLOOD]

nice idea but I would wrather split them into a different bracket which is what baseball cards plus does

[LemonTime]

Only problem is kids would have to bring ID or something. Plus I bet top 16 spots would be 15 9 year olds and 1 20something year old.

[Titleist]

Run 2 tourneys. One for experts/advanced players and the other for beginners/traditional.

[Eyesh]

Only problem is kids would have to bring ID or something. Plus I bet top 16 spots would be 15 9 year olds and 1 20something year old.

Well, there's a good reason why they'd have the Banned cards: They have no idea when and when not to use them. So the good players, even with a disadvantage, could work around that problem. I'd have no problem with that.

[the $tanfaN]

the only problem in this plan is the existance of kids with enormous ego. give them unlimited cards and you will see what happens... but basicly not bad idea.

[OldYugiDuelist]

They had a separate bracket for kids and adults back in the day, but not anymore.

[DFLOOD]

They had a separate bracket for kids and adults back in the day, but not anymore.

some still do

[`Phenom]

Why would they need rules based on age? Its silly. Just have a under-10 tourney.

[DarkViper]

There was apparently a set of different rules in Japan for beginners. They were referred to as "Duelist Kingdom" rules. I don't remember them precisely, but it was stuff like no tributes, 4000 lifepoints and being able to activate magic cards only after you set them for a turn.

[Wizard99]

any 7 year old with an older sibling and a good memory, could be taught Yata Lock, Scientist OTK, Exodia OTK, Chaos, or any other deck

[TheOtherElric]

Only problem is kids would have to bring ID or something. Plus I bet top 16 spots would be 15 9 year olds and 1 20something year old.
He said non-premier events...

[ness00]

I suppose you mean to have, in a single tournament, players over 10 years old using the advanced format, and ten-year olds and younger players using the traditional format? Don't you think these younger players would crush the older players? There is where your "win-win-win" idea is flawed. Banned cards are banned for a reason, and it's not like a younger player can't understand how powerful banned cards are. Older players, and even younger players that can't obtain the banned cards are on a disadvantage. The only "winner", or the only group that benefits becomes younger players who can afford the broken cards.

Now, before being quoted on "zomg, what's the difference on not being able to afford banned cards for traditional and not being able to afford broken cards for advanced?", keep in mind virtually any deck can win in traditional thanks to the banned cards. I have attended traditional tournaments where not only players had the banned cards, but also had fakes, and fake banned cards. You know it's a sad day when a paper CED blows all your life points -.- Thanks to fakes, everyone is able to obtain the banned cards, which would be the ideal way to play these tournaments. But the reality is different, having banned cards stay quite expensive, rare, and still being abusive.

I have played these tournaments (the ones with fakes and in traditional format) with my cards, using 1-2 banned cards only, maybe Pot of Greed, my OCG Crush Card Virus, and other things, using earth beatdown, control, and whatever, and I still had an upper-hand over younger players. I'm not saying I "crush/pwn" them, or anything, but I'm used to a competitive enviroment, I'm aware of rulings and odd situations, strategies, deck types, etc.

It's more of an issue of knowledge. Like I've said before, players with the banned cards will win. Altough most agree the banned cards "take no skill" to be played, players have to know of their existance to abuse them in the first place. Would a younger player realize it's more effective to center around a Chaos deck rather than playing a fun deck? Those who do, will have the upper-hand. Those who don't, will still be crushed, and the idea of these format will be flushed down the toilet.


Players under 10 CAN play in a competitive manner if they learn to do so. Even if it looks like "too much" for them, they may learn even faster than older players.

Finally, in my local store, the TO organizes non-sanctioned traditional events (the fake cards one I've mentioned). As prizes, he offers non-fake cards. He also offers advice, and some times I have even judged a few tourneys so that players understand how to play, as to "promote" them to sanctioned, advanced tournaments. I assure you, these kids HAVE come to advanced tournaments with competitive strategies as Hydrogeddons, Gravekeeper's Spy, Monarchs, Kycoos, whatever. It's not their Chaos deck without BLS and CED.

[DFLOOD]

wow calm down

[Wizard99]

Ness00 is right, think logically. It would be more practical to teach kids how to play using banned cards just to show them the rules. Then as the lessons go towards deck building, the banned list concept can be introduced...

[djgdjg]

Ideas like these are often interesting. I have a similar situation, in that I have three nephews, the youngest of whom is just starting to learn the game and who is less sharp than my middle nephew was at a younger age.

It's been tricky trying to devise handicaps that can produce a playable game between the three of them. Out of all the things I've tried, the most interesting has turned out to be:

At the start of the better player's turn, he rolls a six-sided die. If he rolls 1 or 2, he skips his Draw Phase; 3 or 4, he skips his Main Phases; 5 or 6, he skips his Battle Phase.

We've also tried it rotating which phase to skip, which allowed for planning. At the moment, we are trying occasional games with a reduced handicap, which actually works well to give the oldest an even chance of beating the middle brother, who is much the best player of the three.

[yoshiboy]

My 9-year-old son, Noah, had what I think is an interesting idea to encourage younger children to compete in Yu-Gi-Oh, and stimulate sales in several ways.

His friends try to attend local tournaments, but get so badly crushed by older players that they become discouraged and turn to other games. Noah's idea was to change the rules for children under the age of 10 for non-premiere events only. Noah suggested that children under 10 would not have to follow the restricted lists for UDE sanctioned local tournaments.

Advantages:
1. Young kids would have a chance to play competitively, and even pro players would have to scramble to figure out how to beat their power cards.
2. Young kids often arrive now with illegal decks. If rules were changed, this would no longer be a problem.
3. Banned cards would again have some utility, even in areas where there is no traditional tourney competition. Kids would be eager to get Dark Hole, Pot of Greed, etc.
4. At the discretion of the TO, a child would be graduated to the restricted list if he has demonstrated, through victories, that he no longer needs a handicap.
5. The rule change could be simply implemented. Just a single sentence added to the Restricted List would do it.

This is a pretty radical change, and so will surely require a lot of discussion; however, based on my observations playing the game in the last year, it looks like a win-win-win to me.


Wait, hold up do you play at dream wizards?

[DFLOOD]

Ideas like these are often interesting. I have a similar situation, in that I have three nephews, the youngest of whom is just starting to learn the game and who is less sharp than my middle nephew was at a younger age.

It's been tricky trying to devise handicaps that can produce a playable game between the three of them. Out of all the things I've tried, the most interesting has turned out to be:

At the start of the better player's turn, he rolls a six-sided die. If he rolls 1 or 2, he skips his Draw Phase; 3 or 4, he skips his Main Phases; 5 or 6, he skips his Battle Phase.

We've also tried it rotating which phase to skip, which allowed for planning. At the moment, we are trying occasional games with a reduced handicap, which actually works well to give the oldest an even chance of beating the middle brother, who is much the best player of the three.

handicaps are for losers. Dont make them feel retarded

[mrpwnage]

is your 9 year old son noah the same one who got the feature match vs.holloway. Yay! 400th post 100 away from a vet

[DFLOOD]

who is holloway

[mrpwnage]

Jason Holloway,he top 16 in Durham and a few other SJC's.

[DFLOOD]

what do you guys just memorize all of the pros or something

[ness00]

handicaps are for losers. Dont make them feel retarded

So losing continuously to other players and not being able to progress at all doesn't make a young player feel bad about him or herself, right?

Handicaps are meant to even things for everyone, altough djgdjg's idea is kinda harsh. Losing the draw phase is one of the most powerful effects of the game. The other phases could be a fair choice.

If I'm not mistaken, Pokémon has an age-based system for tournaments. I still dislike it, since an instructed player still has advantage. Age becomes irrelevant.

It is also hard to establish handicaps. We could say that if an experienced, older player is paired with a younger player who is new to the game, the former will try to go easy on him/her by his/her own instinct. But this doesn't apply to everyone.

[~Destiny~]

The idea of kids going around playing all those banned cards really scares me, call me noob if you want but I think even a pro player can lose because of how strong some of those banned cards are.

Also, even if they are 9 and under, kids can still be taught to play a deck in a specific way. I've tried this with my brother. I let him use stein vs. my zombie deck. It didn't matter how much advantage I had, that Stein just always helped him win that game.

Being able to otk with just 3-4 cards just seems like a bad idea to me.

[Warthog]

hell no.. this has to be the worst idea Ive seen came up with. We dont need kids running around with Yata and BLS.. no thank you.

what your son should do is help get a local tournament started where only young kids could join. At around the age of 5-12, so they dont get discouraged etc. Or if that isnt workable set up a tutoring program for the little kids and help lend out cards. Teach them whats good and whats not etc. Theres always going to be the ignorant kid that never takes advice but thats there own loss; more than likely you'll see the kids will be happy and they wont quit because they are losing.

[Shining Blue-eyes]

My 9-year-old son, Noah, had what I think is an interesting idea to encourage younger children to compete in Yu-Gi-Oh, and stimulate sales in several ways.

His friends try to attend local tournaments, but get so badly crushed by older players that they become discouraged and turn to other games. Noah's idea was to change the rules for children under the age of 10 for non-premiere events only. Noah suggested that children under 10 would not have to follow the restricted lists for UDE sanctioned local tournaments.

Advantages:
1. Young kids would have a chance to play competitively, and even pro players would have to scramble to figure out how to beat their power cards.
2. Young kids often arrive now with illegal decks. If rules were changed, this would no longer be a problem.
3. Banned cards would again have some utility, even in areas where there is no traditional tourney competition. Kids would be eager to get Dark Hole, Pot of Greed, etc.
4. At the discretion of the TO, a child would be graduated to the restricted list if he has demonstrated, through victories, that he no longer needs a handicap.
5. The rule change could be simply implemented. Just a single sentence added to the Restricted List would do it.

This is a pretty radical change, and so will surely require a lot of discussion; however, based on my observations playing the game in the last year, it looks like a win-win-win to me.

My brother is 10 years-old and he has 2 regional top 8s. If he could use banned cards I could never be able to compete with him. He would win all the locals and give nobody else a chance. The idea of taking away this "handicap", giving away his edge merely due to the fact that he is a good player is also a flawed idea.

[i like pie94]

No plenty of people under ten are good enough to sweep the floors with their advanced/are good but just not quite there and if they got banned cards....simply put hell would break loose. Sadly there is no way to even it out in my eyes because if you put an age limit say 7-12 then some people will go there and devestate the littler kids and then another problem is that the good kids who were under 13 wouldn't be able to get nats invites in the real world of the game.....But I'm glad somebody cares about this. :D

[TheOneAndOnly]

I have played in tournaments with rules set up like this, they do not work the way intended..

Someone with a younger sibling is submitted into the tournament using his older brothers broken ass otk deck.

[Eric Engelmann]

Wait, hold up do you play at dream wizards?
Yes, perhaps once or twice a month.

[DFLOOD]

just give them advice and mabe build them a decent deck. My next door nabor is 9 and I built him a good zombie deck out of his own cards because his terrible deck and I brught him to a local and he was in the top 8. But only because at first they split the kids from the adults but that just means he had a better deck than most kids

[Eric Engelmann]

My brother is 10 years-old and he has 2 regional top 8s. If he could use banned cards I could never be able to compete with him. He would win all the locals and give nobody else a chance. The idea of taking away this "handicap", giving away his edge merely due to the fact that he is a good player is also a flawed idea.


Note that under-10's would get their handicap ONLY in non-premiere events, and, if they should finally top-x/win a tourney, would graduate to non-handicapped status.

[Yussa Tampon]

My 9-year-old son, Noah, had what I think is an interesting idea to encourage younger children to compete in Yu-Gi-Oh, and stimulate sales in several ways.

His friends try to attend local tournaments, but get so badly crushed by older players that they become discouraged and turn to other games. Noah's idea was to change the rules for children under the age of 10 for non-premiere events only. Noah suggested that children under 10 would not have to follow the restricted lists for UDE sanctioned local tournaments.

Advantages:
1. Young kids would have a chance to play competitively, and even pro players would have to scramble to figure out how to beat their power cards.
2. Young kids often arrive now with illegal decks. If rules were changed, this would no longer be a problem.
3. Banned cards would again have some utility, even in areas where there is no traditional tourney competition. Kids would be eager to get Dark Hole, Pot of Greed, etc.
4. At the discretion of the TO, a child would be graduated to the restricted list if he has demonstrated, through victories, that he no longer needs a handicap.
5. The rule change could be simply implemented. Just a single sentence added to the Restricted List would do it.

This is a pretty radical change, and so will surely require a lot of discussion; however, based on my observations playing the game in the last year, it looks like a win-win-win to me.

Great for a local since i don't play em'.
As long as you keep this away from a premiere event it is cool by me.

[Chaos_is_Over]

then you get those genius kids who play and would come up with the Yata Lock and overkill everyone.

thats the only problem. i saw this kid who was liek 9 at a sneak preview. He made a Machine Monarch Beatdown and Beat my 16 yr couz who used monarchs. then there was the kid at durham who was 9 and was liek 4-0 or something.

[s h a n Y e]

I suppose you mean to have, in a single tournament, players over 10 years old using the advanced format, and ten-year olds and younger players using the traditional format? Don't you think these younger players would crush the older players? There is where your "win-win-win" idea is flawed. Banned cards are banned for a reason, and it's not like a younger player can't understand how powerful banned cards are. Older players, and even younger players that can't obtain the banned cards are on a disadvantage. The only "winner", or the only group that benefits becomes younger players who can afford the broken cards.

Now, before being quoted on "zomg, what's the difference on not being able to afford banned cards for traditional and not being able to afford broken cards for advanced?", keep in mind virtually any deck can win in traditional thanks to the banned cards. I have attended traditional tournaments where not only players had the banned cards, but also had fakes, and fake banned cards. You know it's a sad day when a paper CED blows all your life points -.- Thanks to fakes, everyone is able to obtain the banned cards, which would be the ideal way to play these tournaments. But the reality is different, having banned cards stay quite expensive, rare, and still being abusive.

I have played these tournaments (the ones with fakes and in traditional format) with my cards, using 1-2 banned cards only, maybe Pot of Greed, my OCG Crush Card Virus, and other things, using earth beatdown, control, and whatever, and I still had an upper-hand over younger players. I'm not saying I "crush/pwn" them, or anything, but I'm used to a competitive enviroment, I'm aware of rulings and odd situations, strategies, deck types, etc.

It's more of an issue of knowledge. Like I've said before, players with the banned cards will win. Altough most agree the banned cards "take no skill" to be played, players have to know of their existance to abuse them in the first place. Would a younger player realize it's more effective to center around a Chaos deck rather than playing a fun deck? Those who do, will have the upper-hand. Those who don't, will still be crushed, and the idea of these format will be flushed down the toilet.


Players under 10 CAN play in a competitive manner if they learn to do so. Even if it looks like "too much" for them, they may learn even faster than older players.

Finally, in my local store, the TO organizes non-sanctioned traditional events (the fake cards one I've mentioned). As prizes, he offers non-fake cards. He also offers advice, and some times I have even judged a few tourneys so that players understand how to play, as to "promote" them to sanctioned, advanced tournaments. I assure you, these kids HAVE come to advanced tournaments with competitive strategies as Hydrogeddons, Gravekeeper's Spy, Monarchs, Kycoos, whatever. It's not their Chaos deck without BLS and CED.

Kids should be winning these tournaments. Yu-Gi-Oh was designed for children not for us, like it or not IT IS NOT AN ADULT GAME! Adult plays it and enjoy it FINE but children should be the ones winning the tournaments and getting those moments they can remember. Not a bunch of 19 year old asian teenagers trying to out net-deck each other.


So quite your crying and let the people the game was made for play THEIR game

[Perentie Fan]

Kids should be winning these tournaments. Yu-Gi-Oh was designed for children not for us, like it or not IT IS NOT AN ADULT GAME! Adult plays it and enjoy it FINE but children should be the ones winning the tournaments and getting those moments they can remember. Not a bunch of 19 year old asian teenagers trying to out net-deck each other.


So quite your crying and let the people the game was made for play THEIR game
What does your reply have to do with the post you quoted? You're making no sense as nowhere did ness00 claim that adults should be the only winners. Ness00 was only explaining some reasons why the proposed idea wouldn't work well in practice.

Heck this topic is full of posts reporting 10 and under kids who do very well.

Ideally if some kid at a local is getting crushed and disappointed, there should be someone there willing to look at their decks, offer REASONABLE (i.e. no recommending Dmoc and Mirror Force if the kid doesn't have them) suggestions on replacements, better strategies, clarifications on rules and such without getting rid of what the kid likes about their deck or talking down to them.:)

[Chaos_is_Over]

why cant ude do a smart thing and make age group tournaments.

Age: 12 and Under

Age: 13-17

Age: 18+

[s h a n Y e]

What does your reply have to do with the post you quoted? You're making no sense as nowhere did ness00 claim that adults should be the only winners.

Heck this topic is full of posts reporting 10 and under kids who do very well.

Ideally if some kid at a local is getting crushed and disappointed, there should be someone there willing to look at their decks, offer REASONABLE (i.e. no recommending Dmoc and Mirror Force if the kid doesn't have them) suggestions on replacements and such without getting rid of what the kid likes about their deck or talking down to them.:)

I was continuing on his train of thought

[DFLOOD]

why cant ude do a smart thing and make age group tournaments.

Age: 12 and Under

Age: 13-17

Age: 18+

I dont know the 13-17 and 18+ should be combined

[perzeus]

Kids should be winning these tournaments. Yu-Gi-Oh was designed for children not for us, like it or not IT IS NOT AN ADULT GAME! Adult plays it and enjoy it FINE but children should be the ones winning the tournaments and getting those moments they can remember. Not a bunch of 19 year old asian teenagers trying to out net-deck each other.


So quite your crying and let the people the game was made for play THEIR game
not so much

it ended being popular with children because 4kids has the weird idea that they should market their anime to younger audiences than intended

though it's not like the game was intended for adults either, it would be silly to say that, the original audience of the manga and anime was teenagers, let's say around 12-16, and that adience is the one konami had in mind when designing the game

the game was not intended for kids under 10 altough they still can play it, just have them play with kids around their same age/skill

[Yussa Tampon]

why cant ude do a smart thing and make age group tournaments.

Age: 12 and Under

Age: 13-17

Age: 18+

I'll go fake ID on their asses. I could probably make myself look 12. And we live across from a cosmetics building.

[Fiendishly]

Hi, I am a little younger than you, Eric, I agree with your sentiment, but "handicapping" younger players is not the way to go, imho.
They have to learn the "correct" way of playing, or else they would be like a lot of other "newbies" out there, who play by the "Anime rules" & thus never learn.
What they should be learning, is to take a closer look at decks in their metagame & work out strategies to try & beat them, as well as learning how to make decent side-decks to cover their own deck's weaknesses & also to use against dominant decks.
I feel that "newbies" should run decks like stall decks & use chainable traps, spells & monsters to counter the effects of Monarchs & such, or else use cards like Royal Decrees, Prohibitions etc.
They must learn these things "the hard way" or else, there is Traditional Format, which gives a wider variety of broken cards for kids & the less inexperienced to use.
They just need more practice to make them more competitive & sometimes, they may feel a little "insecure" when playing against older kids. This also needs to be addressed.
When you have an 10yr old (Austin Kulman) winning an SJC Championship, you really need to revisit this idea. He had to learn to do it somehow.
Every loss should be a "learning curve" to make themselves & their decks better.
Besides which, "handicapping" kids, will only lead them to be treated like "noobs" by other kids who are more adept at playing the game.
They should be reading more threads on Pojo, visiting Metagame & such to learn about new decks & new ideas.
It is a game for all ages, or else "oldies" like us, would need a similar rules.lol

[Vampire_Lady]

I don't want young kids incouraged to play yugioh. (little is younger than 10)

I HATE playing little kids. HATE it. Even though I usually win against them I am tired of stupid n00b behavior. I don't want an argument over MST or having to explain everything I do. Kids drive me NUTS.

I don't mind some of them when they know what they are doing and don't whine or try to bug me. Little kids have no real place in yugoh other than to make UDE money by trying to go after E-heroes and other crap they are lead to belive is good.

However, I did meet one kid that knew what he was doing. He had read his cards, knew what they all did, played quietly and did not whine even if he lost horribly. That is how the other little kids should act. If they all acted like this, I would be happy to play them.

[jaws_is_ra]

This game is not a kids game

4kids made it look like a game for kids but it is not for kids

Kids are ok to play it that I am fine with

I am not fine with parents that want it to be a kids only game

here is what you should be doing insted of trying to get the older players from playing


Talk to the best player in the area
ask him or her if they will teach your kid some new ways of playing

UDE just started a tAG team duelling fourmat if your kids can not win in the normal turnys have them enter that i am sure if they work togetht that they then could over power older duelist

There is also the hobby leage

and the duelist leage (last i looked it is age limted to any one under 18)


The problem is not the older players beating your kids becouse they are kids ( that might be the case in some places) but most of it is becouse they have the skill your kids do not have yet i use the would yet becouse if your kids keep playing and keep working at it they will some day be Nastional Champs

look at last years USA champion a 10 year old boy

10 beocuse he keep work at it and he got help from a lot of skilled player till he was a skilled player

If any of your parents would like i know a few people that help kids over the internet get better at duelling Pm if you like to know were you can find them

I help young duelist all the time

I have this obe duelist i been working with he started when he was 12 he is problem one of the worst duelist you would ever seen at a big turny he beat one of the top duelist in the state of IN one day becouse he keep working at it

So insted of haveing age limtes so your kids can only duel with their freinds ask around


Beocuse if he set age limtes then when your kids turn of age were they can not play in turnys any more what would you say then let change it back that would only couse chaos

If any parent would like me to help their kid or wants the name of some one or the place that can help their kids get better Pm me or Email (Subject: Teach My kid Duelling) and I will help any one that needs help

I might not be a pro duelist but i know the game I my self might not run the best deck but i am sure i can help you all out



A few things should be address

This is to all Prarents out there with kids playing yugioh

Anime=Cartoon that is all it is

Read the book your self first if you do not belive your kid will be able to understand all the rulings do what we do around my house for younger duelist or new duelist or just for fun HOLD UNOFFICAL TRUNYS turnys that have nothing to do with UDE that way your kids will be able to play with their freinds and use the Anime effects

but if your kid wants to duel in real turnys then before comeing on to the internet and tell the people that been dueling for 5 to 9 years they need to stop playing talk to the top 4 best duelist in your area first and ask them to teach your kid to play or ask the T.O. the head judge after a turny if they will help out and have your kids go to a few turnys but not enter then but watch and see what how the game is played and i think yours kids will become better duelist and be a lot happyer then just playing people their own ages ebcouse they will make freinds of all ages

i sorry but i am 100% AGINST the Idea of age limted turnys

I feel if they kid is not ready then they need to learn more

You would make your kid take a test with out studying would you

Yugioh is the same way think of it as a test a test of their skill you would not want them to play it if they were not ready

PM me if you want any help i am on most the time and i read all PMs thank you

[piggyman86]

that sounds like my locals except 10000x better. my locals cripple good players WAAAAY too much

[jaws_is_ra]

at my locals we have a 8 year old boy that has beat players in their 30s the oldest duelist we have is 50 years old and the younger duelist are better then her

She duels becouse he finds the game fun not to win she loses a lot of duels but has fun with it

[CreatorOfThePointSystem]

I definitely think this is a BAD idea.

If 10-and-under are able to use banned cards, then you're going to have a game of "pawns" -- e.g. older players using younger players and teaching them how to play decks with banned cards / loaning them banned cards solely to beat out competition in exchange for part, or most, of the prizes. (Then you get backlash where people are calling it collusion, and it just gets messier from there.)

[Xing*]

I thought you are pro cheap ways to get good stuff?

[ness00]

Heck this topic is full of posts reporting 10 and under kids who do very well.

Ideally if some kid at a local is getting crushed and disappointed, there should be someone there willing to look at their decks, offer REASONABLE (i.e. no recommending Dmoc and Mirror Force if the kid doesn't have them) suggestions on replacements, better strategies, clarifications on rules and such without getting rid of what the kid likes about their deck or talking down to them.:)

Well, that kinda reflects the fact that not every younger player performs worse than an older player. It's all a matter of experience and knowledge.

A small problem with advice would be that most new players tend to be stubborn. Let's say the advice is virtually possible (e.g., not Crush Card Virus). Something like "you should try using a Sparkman-based Elemental Hero deck. Sparkman has good fusions, and it's a semi-decent beatstick". New players simply refuse to listen, even if they have the cards for said fixes, or even if you gift them to them. Luckily, this is more towards building. Other intangible things like strategy may click in their brains faster. An example would be first summon your monster, THEN use removal, as to avoid Torrential Tribute.

Kids should be winning these tournaments. Yu-Gi-Oh was designed for children not for us, like it or not IT IS NOT AN ADULT GAME! Adult plays it and enjoy it FINE but children should be the ones winning the tournaments and getting those moments they can remember. Not a bunch of 19 year old asian teenagers trying to out net-deck each other.


So quite your crying and let the people the game was made for play THEIR game

Like some said, it is MARKETED towards children.


Another thought I had was, if a certain handicap was offered to younger players, newcomers of an older age would still be handicapped! Think, for example, of a 15/16-year-old newbie, who can't compete with the experienced players, or the young newbies with broken cards.

We could try something around UDE's rankings. There, victories and losses are recorded, and people with several games lost could qualify for a certain handicap, or a tournament with players that don't perform very well. This could also be flawed because several players don't have sanctioned local tournaments, and could gain experience in non-official tourneys.

[Zaffy]

Only adults can play a childrens card game!

[BEWDMaster]

true we will have some one figrue out the yata lock or chaos contal all they realy have to do si tlak to a older player but we ened to round out this game some how becuase right now the fun is being sucked out of it for any one who just plays for fun and wants t sue a fun deck they get destoryed we need a way to balaince every thing out

[Puffy]

Sounds great. We do need something for the younger, newer player. Something to make them stay.

[Etna iCe]

So, since a kid cannot take the time to practice and then win a game on their own merits, you give them a ridiculous handicap and basically say "it's not your fault Timmy, you shouldn't HAVE to do any work to win so we'll just let you use the broken cards so someone else can design your deck and use you to win."?

Yeah, that's America for you...

fail/10

[Peps]

Giving younger players an insane advantage is not the way to go at all. I've met several young players around that age group and they're just as skillful as many of the older players. Allowing them to use banned cards just because of age would only give them an unfair advantage and nothing more. If the less-skilled players want to get better at the game, they'll ask other people for help. Competing and advice is the only way to improve and that's something I've learned myself after my first few tournaments with little knowledge about the game. If they're not improving after such a long time, then maybe TCGs just aren't for them.

Here in Ireland, we offer two levels of tournaments, being Juniors and Seniors. The age restriction is normally under 13 belong to the Junior section and older players belong to the Seniors. The juniors used to use the Traditional format, however that was eventually changed to follow the Advanced format. Just remember, there are a good few young players who do know about the likes of Chaos, Scientist FTK, Cyber-Stein and so on. Their age does not reflect their knowledge, which seems to be the main assumption floating around in this thread. Even some of the seniors could be far worse than the juniors in terms of skill.

[Yussa Tampon]

I definitely think this is a BAD idea.

If 10-and-under are able to use banned cards, then you're going to have a game of "pawns" -- e.g. older players using younger players and teaching them how to play decks with banned cards / loaning them banned cards solely to beat out competition in exchange for part, or most, of the prizes. (Then you get backlash where people are calling it collusion, and it just gets messier from there.)

me & my bro used to do that all the time. I'd enter him in the younger bracket tournament and I'd just teach him how to pwn.

we used our naruto skills to win, we used a lot of "jutsu's" if you know what I meant...
but everyone was pawning their bros / sisters. there is this one guy that literally played for his sister and the judge didn't care.
and another guy... had all his bro's cards marked.

[MCB01]

I think having age bracket tournaments is the best way to solve the problem (if it actually is a problem)

Now stomping younger players isn't fun at all, but I think this game should involve the better players should win the majority of their games. The banned cards are not put in place to 'even' things out, but attempt to create a scenario where 'skill' is the deciding factor in any duel (as much as possible anyway)

The best way for younger players to learn the game is just to play the game. Even though i was older when i started, I'll admit that i was pretty bad when i started, and now top 8 basically any tournament i go in.
I do however try to teach the younger players when i play them, giving deck advice and the like. I also recently gave away 5 tins full of commons so they kids can find cards they might need (they were mostly db and dr reprints, so there were some good cards there)

[Yussa Tampon]

I think having age bracket tournaments is the best way to solve the problem (if it actually is a problem)

Now stomping younger players isn't fun at all, but I think this game should involve the better players should win the majority of their games. The banned cards are not put in place to 'even' things out, but attempt to create a scenario where 'skill' is the deciding factor in any duel (as much as possible anyway)

The best way for younger players to learn the game is just to play the game. Even though i was older when i started, I'll admit that i was pretty bad when i started, and now top 8 basically any tournament i go in.
I do however try to teach the younger players when i play them, giving deck advice and the like. I also recently gave away 5 tins full of commons so they kids can find cards they might need (they were mostly db and dr reprints, so there were some good cards there)

We can still have pawns though. And if we don't have bros / siss then we can agree to split stuff with random kids.

Pawn much?

[Mystic-Homer]

All you have to do is split Hobby League tourneys into two brackets. One for older players and one for younger players (kids under 12 or 13).

As far as Regionals and SJC's and the like... Well, if they think they're good enough to compete with older people at premiere events, let 'em play with the same banlist that everyone else has (current system).

[LexCrowley]

Run 2 tourneys. One for experts/advanced players and the other for beginners/traditional.

when i stated at tourneys thats what the store owner wanted. and that was a great plan. but that was when there were only limeted/ not banned cards

but yeah that would still be a great thing for ygo, to have a 12 and under list that is like the traditional limited list. they could even have their own regionals. the only problem is that i dont think that any state make an id card for kids under 16

added.
just cause a kid is young, doesnt mean that an older brother should be able to use his younger bro to take first, at the last regionals a kid got top 16 and ran to his bro when he found out.

[Roland]

Call me skeptical but I don't think its such a good idea either.

I understand on giving young players a handicap and it is hard to be in a competitive enviroment which is very overwhelming at a young age.

Some tournaments still promote traditional play which is more flexibal than advanced (this already helps out children with understanding limitations aswell as whats powerful and whats not).

And Advanced play is... well for advanced players.

From my personal experience I've seen kids from 7-12 playing counterfit cards, not understanding the basic rules of the game and even having 3 or more of banned/limited cards. Giving them looser rules can also create confusion and bad playing, which can discourage children and create more work for judges to supervise.

My recomondation would be to have new players wear a "i'm new" badge, letting other players understand that they are to be more leniant when facing people who are new to the game (of course you would get some pre-teen who would just be totally ignorent of the matter and white wash the child but thats something that can't be avoided)

Rolands top tips:

>Make sure the child understands the basic rules and to read the latest rule book.
>Make sure the child understands and is up to date with the banned/limited list.
>Make sure the child has a few practise matches before they enter any competitive event.
>Make sure the child is equipped with what they need to play and keep their deck safe and secure.
>Make sure the child has succesfully registered for the event and is being supervised by a judge or senior player(s) (the mature ones, not the prubescent teens with an attitude problem)
>Make sure the child has found the correct oppenant to duel with and that they are comfortable and prepared to battle.

And the most important rule of all!!!

>Make sure the child is having fun ^^

As a player who helps introduces and teaches new players into the game I feel everyone can benefit from a fun time when playing Yu-Gi-Oh!

[grenmajuman]

So, since a kid cannot take the time to practice and then win a game on their own merits, you give them a ridiculous handicap and basically say "it's not your fault Timmy, you shouldn't HAVE to do any work to win so we'll just let you use the broken cards so someone else can design your deck and use you to win."?

Yeah, that's America for you...

fail/10

Wins the thread. American gotta-have-satisfaction-now mindset FTL!

[emuron]

See Child Genius always throws a spanner in the works.

Who says kids SHOULD be winning these events? They win it if they are good enough, not because we 'feel' they should. Thats like saying America SHOULD win all the Olympic golds, doesn't mean they will.

[PJ]

They had a separate bracket for kids and adults back in the day, but not anymore.
What we do at my loacls is play the standard local swiss event, and the overall winner gets a prize. Then after that, the highest places under-13 player gets a prize of the same value of the winners.

Last week I won a plasma tin (not bad), and so did the kid. They were the last 2 tins in the store too :)

[D.D. Sofa Guy]

What we do at my loacls is play the standard local swiss event, and the overall winner gets a prize. Then after that, the highest places under-13 player gets a prize of the same value of the winners.

Last week I won a plasma tin (not bad), and so did the kid. They were the last 2 tins in the store too :)

That's a better idea. But costs more in prizes. Still if you can encourge a younger clientele to major events it's win win allround.

[St. Eris]

The problem is not all young players are bad, some are pro, and at the same time, more aged people suck bad.

If it was new rules for sucky players, it would be good, but it's hard to tell a sucky player from a person whos pretending they suck

__________________
OCG/TCG 1st God King Tournament! (http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?p=7507512#post7507512)

[PJ]

What the 'good' players should be doing is playing the not-so-good ones after the tournament and giving them advice on bringing them up to their level.

I try to do that, if I have free time.

[flopolopagus bunny]

i think it would be ok maybe every other week at a local tourney but the
other duelist would be the ones who vote when u the younger duelist would
go to the regular ban list. one think i don't think everything on the ban list
should be available to play.

[Eric Engelmann]

I definitely think this is a BAD idea.

If 10-and-under are able to use banned cards, then you're going to have a game of "pawns" -- e.g. older players using younger players and teaching them how to play decks with banned cards / loaning them banned cards solely to beat out competition in exchange for part, or most, of the prizes. (Then you get backlash where people are calling it collusion, and it just gets messier from there.)

First, the TO would take away the handicap once they had attained top-x in their local, so the older player would have to train a new kid each week. That's a lot of work for a few packs of cards. Second, older players encouraging younger players to play, AND giving them a sense of victory, at least once, would be awesome for the game. It would bring in some new players while treating some arrogant teens I've seen to a much-deserved whipping at the hands of the kids they often mistreat.

For those who can't stand playing kids, just go to premiere events, or scoop when you are paired with a young kid.

[Myrokin]

First, the TO would take away the handicap once they had attained top-x in their local, so the older player would have to train a new kid each week. That's a lot of work for a few packs of cards. Second, older players encouraging younger players to play, AND giving them a sense of victory, at least once, would be awesome for the game. It would bring in some new players while treating some arrogant teens I've seen to a much-deserved whipping at the hands of the kids they often mistreat.

For those who can't stand playing kids, just go to premiere events, or scoop when you are paired with a young kid.

Yes, but I can speak from experience that I try numerous times to help new players, setting them up with good cards, offering suggestions, yadda ya. And yet, a lot of the time, they scream that they don't need the help, blah blah blah. If they're not willing to accept help to adapt to the current format, why should we change the way we play and have to react to the fear of the Chaos crutches dropping on us at any moment?

I don't see why we should reward bad players for winning because they topdecked a nigh-unkillable card. <_<

Ok, scratch that line, it sounded a little harsh. Bad players who aren't willing to accept help to become better in the actual format.

But the point stands, methinks.

[Etna iCe]

Wins the thread. American gotta-have-satisfaction-now mindset FTL!


Well, I live in the USA too but that's just how I feel.

Additional Comment:

First, the TO would take away the handicap once they had attained top-x in their local, so the older player would have to train a new kid each week. That's a lot of work for a few packs of cards. Second, older players encouraging younger players to play, AND giving them a sense of victory, at least once, would be awesome for the game. It would bring in some new players while treating some arrogant teens I've seen to a much-deserved whipping at the hands of the kids they often mistreat.

For those who can't stand playing kids, just go to premiere events, or scoop when you are paired with a young kid.


You keep pushing this idea with the same stupid excuse. That also means that on top of everything else a TO has to keep track of when running a tournament, he/she'd also have to keep track of your stuff too.

How about instead of totally messing with the only check and balance system we have in an already messed up game, why not just ORGANIZE AND EVENT FOR 12 and under only?

I know other posters have suggested it already.

Look guy, I'm sorry your son/child/whatev can't win at any tournaments. Try actually asking him why he thinks he lost, and discuss strategy with him and what you can do to win next time and modify his deck accordingly.

If you just don't have competitve cards to win in a tournament, well then I can't help you. You are playing a Trading Card Game that requires a monetary investment. I haven't seen one single TCG where you can buy a starter and expect to win any kind of real tournament. And money STILL shouldn't be an issue. 90% of YGO's competitive cards and be had for UNDER 2-3$ each.

I typically play 3-4 12 and unders at my hobby leauge and even THEY have Heavy storm, Typhoon, Sak, etc... and most of them can actually make a decent Monarch deck using Thestalos, Mobius, and Granmarg. All common, except Granmarg, but he's might as well be common, all easily obtainable.

Giving them our banned cards to use is not going to help them any. What happens like you said when they most likely lucksack their way through a tournament with a deck not built by them and "graduate" as you suggested? They won't have learned anything, except that "you need the powerful banned cards to win" and they will be right back at square one: using their decks without the banned cards and probably losing.

Wow, you really added some fun to the game right there.

[TheParanoidAndroid]

I started playing at 8. I started playing competitively at 9, with a Clown Control deck. And now, when younger kids come into the local cardshop, I try to help as much as possible. I help them build better decks, and play better, as well, as trying to teach them things that veteran players now know (do not set all of the Spell cards in your hand; do not run more than 4 tribute monsters, unless you have justification.

But I also know kids who have nearly every card in the game. They usually have a father or brother who plays (or sometimes sister or mother, but I digress). Giving them the advantage of banned cards would be unfair; we would see banned decks Top 8-ing every Shonen Jump.

I say, in order to encourage younger players to play, older players need to help build decks and teach basic rules of cards.

[Shadow of Death]

Then you have kids who have older brothers who play, or notice the power of banned cards. You act as if a game designed for player's of that age can't be understood by them. Yugioh is rediculously easy. I know a seven year old who has NEVER EVER had a problem playing this game. Especially for his age, he's a relatively decent player. Age rarely has a factor with how well someone can play, and giving them handicaps and such isn't really the way to go. They should learn how to play as the game is and be seen as equally strong players, because you can easily teach a kid the math to card advantage, and let him watch you play to see how to be more competitive if so desired.

[Omega Red]

I say the creation of like a 12 and under Traditional League could work. However, allowing younger players with Traditional Decks to play in the same tournament as older players with Advanced Decks is assuming incompetence on the part of the younger player. What you end up doing is patronizing the select few that are just plain bad (understandable because they're young) and giving a huge handicap to the ones who are relatively good; their banned cards give them an unnecessary edge.

[skilledtempest]

problem is, there are some very good players under the age of 10...

[Ciddypoo]

Don't give the kids any leeway just because they're kids. Especially not in a tournament sort of environment. Tournaments are there mostly to be competitive and to improve on your skills as a deckbuilder and a duelist. If you give kids freebies, they'll never learn to play well. If a kid wants to play with his Dark Hole and Raigeki, he can go play in a Traditional tournament or stick with casuals.

[CVH]

Don't give the kids any leeway just because they're kids. Especially not in a tournament sort of environment. Tournaments are there mostly to be competitive and to improve on your skills as a deckbuilder and a duelist. If you give kids freebies, they'll never learn to play well. If a kid wants to play with his Dark Hole and Raigeki, he can go play in a Traditional tournament or stick with casuals.

Completely agreed.

This idea is ridiculous beyond belief. Those cards win tournaments whether the player is ten or not. This would be so ******* wrong. I swear I'd stop playing locally and just go to premier events for the rest of my time playing this game if this idea was actually used.

[Mengde]

Topics like this annoy me. It's like nobody's ever heard of UDE's demo team before. Why don't parents, tournament organizers, and anyone else with authority teach people to play better as opposed to just giving those with a deficit in skill or cards an unbalanced advantage? The good players have had to invest time, money, and effort to get where they are today. It's not our fault that other people can't be bothered to spend any of their time, money, or effort to get better.

All it sounds like to me is that someone, somewhere is too lazy to teach bad players how to become good, and instead, wants to create a quick fix where nobody has to actually do any real work.

[FlareWingman]

I think that Upper deck should do what pokemon does for different age groups:

Splits them up into 3 different age groups. 1 is the junior division, 2nd is (I think) the senior division, and 3rd is the master division...or something like that. Here are the age groups I think they split them into:
Junior: Anyone under 10 years of age
Senior: Anyone between the ages of 10 and 18
Master: 18+

That way it sort of seperates the compitition without breaking the rules of the card game almost giving everyone a fair advantage. You should still have the same prizes though for each division as it would be unfair for the master division to get more than the junior division or senior division.

Anyway, that is IMO...

[Blue-EyesMetalDragon]

I don't think this would ever work. You got some kids with older siblings who will simply tell them what they want to use so that can win. Yata Lock I beleived was mentioned.
Besides, it's not that ALL little kids are stupid. It's just that some do more research than others. Some know that E-Heroes aren't all they'e cracked up to be. As past major tournaments have shown us, how good you are should have nothing to do with your age.

Instead, stick with the shops that offer Traditional Style Tournaments and stuff. The Ban list and Advanced Play Rules aren't for new players. It's best that if you have no idea what you're doing [yet], just play Traditional. Then when you think you've got the hang of it, rebuild your deck to comply with ADV rules and start playing there.
The Traditional Rules should act as a level 0 for players who aren't ready to try the more competitive Level 1.

-=BEMD

[bu-ultimate]

Having a 9-year-old myself, and both of us having been part of many tournaments in different parts of the state, different states, and a couple of SJCs:

To attract and retain young players, the best approach for both local (or non-premier) and premier events is to provide an age-class tournament using the current Advanced Format.

It can be very discouraging for a child to be put in with teenage and adult players, only to be beaten repeatedly. But the handicap only lies within the age and experience of the player, not the card base.

My son and I currently play at a local card shop that has both a beginning and advanced group of players. If a "beginner" player repeatedly wins, or shows more skill than other beginners, they are moved into the advanced group, which is typically teens and adults.

This consistently attracts younger kids to play in the tournament, and requires them to play with Advanced Format cards, which they should be anyway.

I mean let's face it; my 9-year-old knows how to play Scientist / Turtle, and there's nothing more discouraging than to be beaten without getting your turn ...

For premier events, I can only say that the organizers at the Pomona Shonen Jump (2 1/2 years ago?) had a "13-and-under" tournament, with at least 30-40 kids there, but they haven't had it since. Personally I think that UDE and the tournament origanizers are losing out.

Kevin, if you're lurking ...

[Eric Engelmann]

Giving younger players an insane advantage is not the way to go at all. I've met several young players around that age group and they're just as skillful as many of the older players. Allowing them to use banned cards just because of age would only give them an unfair advantage and nothing more. If the less-skilled players want to get better at the game, they'll ask other people for help. Competing and advice is the only way to improve and that's something I've learned myself after my first few tournaments with little knowledge about the game. If they're not improving after such a long time, then maybe TCGs just aren't for them.

Here in Ireland, we offer two levels of tournaments, being Juniors and Seniors. The age restriction is normally under 13 belong to the Junior section and older players belong to the Seniors. The juniors used to use the Traditional format, however that was eventually changed to follow the Advanced format. Just remember, there are a good few young players who do know about the likes of Chaos, Scientist FTK, Cyber-Stein and so on. Their age does not reflect their knowledge, which seems to be the main assumption floating around in this thread. Even some of the seniors could be far worse than the juniors in terms of skill.

A younger player who won or placed well would immediately graduate to the restricted list for future events. In the mean time, since they wouldn't be winning, even with their unrestricted decks, it shouldn't disturb the other players too much unless those older players have serious ego problems.

The problem with two levels of events is that most shops I've seen don't have them. Even then, the sharp 10-year-olds will slaughter a new kid with no handicap. In this area, I just see the 7-year-olds show up with their starter decks and picks from a few boosters, then get abused and leave for good.

If the kid is sharp, or becomes sharp, they graduate to no handicap, but hopefully after having some positive first experiences.

[ReSeT *<]

There is only one way to get better which is get beaten and then learn from older players. When i was younger around when the game first game out i got owned in the face but i learned what cards were good and became better. They need to suck it up and not be given handicaps

[Yussa Tampon]

There is only one way to get better which is get beaten and then learn from older players. When i was younger around when the game first game out i got owned in the face but i learned what cards were good and became better. They need to suck it up and not be given handicaps

the way any game should be...

[Devil Forgemaster]

These rules intrigue me. I have a lot of young kids playing at Books-A-Million in advanced tournaments. I like the idea though. Maybe UDE will think of something like that. Or, do something insane in the future, have a Duelist Academy like in GX.

[Roland]

But its still not fair to throw a begginer into the deep end.

Kids need to play kids, and teens need to play teens etc when it comes to competitive play, because some people at certain age show there ugly side when playing for the win which isn't enjoyable to say the least.

I do beleive UDE event department have already created a solution to this problem which also gets the parents involved aswell.

Wether a begginer has a handicap or not they should not face advanced players its like letting nursery children fight Mike Tyson!

All that is needed is several games of training at home or with friends to help improve skills and stratergies and a good understanding of the tournie circuit before heading out to play with the big boys.

[ReSeT *<]

Giving them a handicap won't help they get one big win then get dumped into the deep end. Like derka derka said to my previous post it is the any game should be

[gamerpaul]

That sounds terrible they already have Jr. regionals for a much easier invite and playmat I don't want some kid beating me down with banned cards so I can't win store credit when he hardly knows how to play.

Additional Comment:

I think that Upper deck should do what pokemon does for different age groups:

Splits them up into 3 different age groups. 1 is the junior division, 2nd is (I think) the senior division, and 3rd is the master division...or something like that. Here are the age groups I think they split them into:
Junior: Anyone under 10 years of age
Senior: Anyone between the ages of 10 and 18
Master: 18+

That way it sort of seperates the compitition without breaking the rules of the card game almost giving everyone a fair advantage. You should still have the same prizes though for each division as it would be unfair for the master division to get more than the junior division or senior division.

Anyway, that is IMO...

I hate that idea. It pisses me off that some 10 year old gets to go to nats or worlds or something just because he has an easier division and gets the same prizes as the adult division. There are good and bad players that are little just like there are good and bad players that are old so it's not fair to give any extra treatment to younger kids or separate into divisions.

[g.keeper]

Topics like this annoy me. It's like nobody's ever heard of UDE's demo team before. Why don't parents, tournament organizers, and anyone else with authority teach people to play better as opposed to just giving those with a deficit in skill or cards an unbalanced advantage? The good players have had to invest time, money, and effort to get where they are today. It's not our fault that other people can't be bothered to spend any of their time, money, or effort to get better.

All it sounds like to me is that someone, somewhere is too lazy to teach bad players how to become good, and instead, wants to create a quick fix where nobody has to actually do any real work.
GET OWNED!!!

[stephen756]

hell, the 9 year olds got it to tough, well you know with the grade school and over protective parents. Man when i was 9 i found out how to play on my own and got better no kiss assing to UDE that it was to tough. All the parents need to get off your high horse and let your kids fail or they are not gonna learn a godamn thing. Really giving them restricted cards, why not give them 80000 life points and make them feel like a champ. wouldnt that be great.

Hmmm how about we all point and laugh at the kid who wins because he cant play like everyone else and win with a deck he/she made lmfao not a CC.

you gotta teach the kids to fail or else they become whiney and ignorant. and you know we gotta a bunch of those who turned into overprotective soccer moms atm. we cant have gemini elves real art because of idiots like that.

My store uses traditional and seriously it makes them all whine and ******* complain when i suggest an advanced tournament when they cant use BLS or else they lose.

These kids need to get off the preverbial tit and quit crying

[s h a n Y e]

not so much

it ended being popular with children because 4kids has the weird idea that they should market their anime to younger audiences than intended

though it's not like the game was intended for adults either, it would be silly to say that, the original audience of the manga and anime was teenagers, let's say around 12-16, and that adience is the one konami had in mind when designing the game

the game was not intended for kids under 10 altough they still can play it, just have them play with kids around their same age/skill

maybe there's a level of bias in my answer due to me being a sunday school teacher and part time baby-sitter/nanny.

But there are other ways people our age can have fun, we should let the children enjoy this one

[stephen756]

maybe there's a level of bias in my answer due to me being a sunday school teacher and part time baby-sitter/nanny.

But there are other ways people our age can have fun, we should let the children enjoy this one

of course that would make it better for them so why dont we all go be pedos that something productive and the children cant lose at it

i can play what i want idc about the children who lose

[jaws_is_ra]

THIS IS NOT A KIDS GAME

Yes 4KIDS try to make it a KIDS game with the cartoon

But in the end it has never been a kids game

It is ment to be fun for every one Young or Old

But not just for the OLD or the Young

I am sick of the *******g about your kids get beat by and teenager

If you want your kids to play with monster reborn that is find TALK TO YOUR T.O. do not come on here and ***** there is nothing we can do about it

If you T.O. does not run an TRD fourmat

Then this is what you DO

TAKE THE T.O. TEST THE YUGIOH JUDGES TEST THE PLAYER MANGEMANT TEST
and start holding turnys in your own home

UDE has ok this as long as you have the 4 players to duel


If you want your kids to get help were they can play the older players and beat them

Or do you not want your kids to learn that hard work payes off


Monster Reborn lets you smmon a monster from either players graveyard

Were is the work in that there is none it like cheating on a test you did nothing you did not have to give up somehting in return to get something for your hard work you failed

Lets look at Monster Reborn again if you take a monster from the other players graveyard then you are not winning with your own cards you are telling your self that you must use other peoples cards at no cost to win were is the leason in that there is none

Premature Burial does the same thing as Monster reborn but has 2 draw back

First you must pay 800 life points so now your kid is give up a small amount of his life points just like give up a small amount of time to studie for that test that they were going to cheat on but now they are not

the 2nd draw back is you can on bring back from your graveyard this is not a bad thing it is a good thing now ou have to use your own cards to win it so now you are learn to do something on your own not to use someone elses cards


If you take somehting from a freind a lot of times you must give something to them also right

well that is were brain control vs change of Heart come in

Change of heart just like monster reborn is cheating but in this case stelling

You are takeing something that is not yours with you give up something in return

Brain Control you must pay 800 life points to take conrtol of their monster so now you are learning that you must pay for what you want

These are things i teach kids i teach how to duel and i also show the parents what i am talking about

The adv fourmat as made so Chaos deck would not run a muck all over the place but

But i seen it as something to learn Life about

Each card on the ban list can tell you something not to do in life

Now when a card comes off the ban list it is to help stop another powerful card that will see it day on the ban list

so if you want your kids to not learn any thing and take the easy way then fine but do not ruin it for EVERY ONE

If you want your kids to learn the game better and find new ways to win then PM

[Potatosack]

It is just a children's card game....

But there is a thing called the internet. Let the kids see what cards that are restricted and replace those cards.

A better idea is to post the formats at the tourneys so everyone knows what's restricted.

[Yussa Tampon]

It is just a children's card game....

But there is a thing called the internet. Let the kids see what cards that are restricted and replace those cards.

A better idea is to post the formats at the tourneys so everyone knows what's restricted.

the thing is that teenagers / adults have a great source for becoming better players... give the lil' kids the internet and they'll do god knows what with it.

[Potatosack]

They'll Probably look up "poo" or (for the girls)"barbie". Seriously though, just show the format to the kids before the tournament occurs.

[Yussa Tampon]

They'll Probably look up "poo" or (for the girls)"barbie". Seriously though, just show the format to the kids before the tournament occurs.

thats probably a good idea. but if they look up poo it'll lead to dirty sanchez ;) and from there it can't be good.

[Potatosack]

You and your dirty lil' mind...

[messysnapper]

wow calm down

agree remember yugioh is a game to have fun and to test wits and ego

[FlareWingman]

That sounds terrible they already have Jr. regionals for a much easier invite and playmat I don't want some kid beating me down with banned cards so I can't win store credit when he hardly knows how to play.

Additional Comment:



I hate that idea. It pisses me off that some 10 year old gets to go to nats or worlds or something just because he has an easier division and gets the same prizes as the adult division. There are good and bad players that are little just like there are good and bad players that are old so it's not fair to give any extra treatment to younger kids or separate into divisions.

There is no need to get pissed off at it. This is not a flame thread so please treat others with respect. This is just my opinion, so get over it. And anyway, I was going to say just to use that approach for regionals and lower tourneys...either way you look at it, there is no good way to make kids feel comfortable with others older than themselves. I mean if the kids are good, have them prove it in nats or worlds where there is no division and they have to compete against the strongest of any age group.

IMO the idea first stated in the beginning is a very big stretch...there are going to be younger plays that will have yata locks and CED/BLS ram over everyone b/c they know the game more than some of the younger players.

But for right now, what is there to do...we do not make the rules:p

[Eric Engelmann]

...
IMO the idea first stated in the beginning is a very big stretch...there are going to be younger plays that will have yata locks and CED/BLS ram over everyone b/c they know the game more than some of the younger players.
...

As stated in my son's original proposal, any under-10 player who places/wins a local (the only place the handicap rules would apply) would graduate to Advanced Restricted status for all future events. If they ran over anyone, it would only be for one event.

[FlareWingman]

That is an interesting proposal...but it would be a bit hard to track if the player just went to different tournaments every week (locals) and just signed up with a new ude card and ran over that tournament as well.

It is a very interesting ideas, but there are "holes" other than mine involved. But props to your son for thinking of it. :D

[Eric Engelmann]

That is an interesting proposal...but it would be a bit hard to track if the player just went to different tournaments every week (locals) and just signed up with a new ude card and ran over that tournament as well.

It is a very interesting ideas, but there are "holes" other than mine involved. But props to your son for thinking of it. :D

Are there that enough UDE sanctioned tournaments in your area that a kid could go to a new one every week? Most parents won't drive their kids that far from home. I'm sure the regular players would know and report any nine-year-old ringers trying to abuse the system, and the TO would give them a summary promotion to the advanced/restricted list.

The big hole I'm concerned with is the one that discourages new entrants into the yu Gi Oh! ecosystem. There simply aren't enough younger players where I live to support multiple age brackets, and I actually think it would do the stronger players good to have some fear of their Lilliputian opponents.

Those who are super-serious about competition can just go to premiere events (regionals and SJCs) or scoop when they get paired with little kids.

[sinspawn]

hell no.. this has to be the worst idea Ive seen came up with. We dont need kids running around with Yata and BLS.. no thank you.

what your son should do is help get a local tournament started where only young kids could join. At around the age of 5-12, so they dont get discouraged etc. Or if that isnt workable set up a tutoring program for the little kids and help lend out cards. Teach them whats good and whats not etc. Theres always going to be the ignorant kid that never takes advice but thats there own loss; more than likely you'll see the kids will be happy and they wont quit because they are losing.


i agree to all but a few points, first if a kid quits because he loses all the time then they shouldnt play games in the first place. i started playing when the game first came out and i only learnrd the rules to play (no advanced rules) i finally started to play competitively at the end of the CED format, and i lost horribly to decks that used bls and the other legal cards at the time, but after a while i learned how to play better and was able to beat the chaos decks. i play many of games and lost horribly but each loss helps me learn something. and by giving little kids handicaps they wont get any better at all but could turn out like most yugioh players today with the ego. as for the rules, they were developed for young players but when we older players started competing and creating these loops abd other breaks in the rules, ude had the judges had to add more to try and keep the game fair (which they arent doing a very good job at anyway).

[House]

Why dont you just hand kids the damn presidency...why should they even be playing unless they go through hard times and learning? I had to go through it, so do they! Same with my friends.

[Eric Engelmann]

Why dont you just hand kids the damn presidency...why should they even be playing unless they go through hard times and learning? I had to go through it, so do they! Same with my friends.

Assuming we want more kids to take up the game, we want to make sure their first experiences are positive ones. True, some kids will stick with it no matter how tough we make it for them. Those kids, such as you and your friends, are great, but I think we should reach out to others, as well, if we want to grow the Yu Gi Oh! community. Imagine what would happen if society used this "learning should be hard" approach to math, reading, and music lessons?

Were you thrown into the deep end at your first swimming lesson? If you had been, do you think you might have switched to another activity?

[TheParanoidAndroid]

Assuming we want more kids to take up the game, we want to make sure their first experiences are positive ones. True, some kids will stick with it no matter how tough we make it for them. Those kids, such as you and your friends, are great, but I think we should reach out to others, as well, if we want to grow the Yu Gi Oh! community. Imagine what would happen if society used this "learning should be hard" approach to math, reading, and music lessons?

Were you thrown into the deep end at your first swimming lesson? If you had been, do you think you might have switched to another activity?

You know, I think we should teach our children well, as their father's hell did slowly go by, and feed them on your dreams, the one they picked, the one you'll know by. Don't you ever ask them why, if they told you, you would cry, so just look at them and sigh; and know they love you. And you, of tender years, can't know the fears that your elders grew by. And so please help them with your youth, they seek the truth, before they can die.

Crosby, Stills & Nash, FTW.

On a serious note, if you want to teach a kid how to play Blackjack, you don't let kids use Jokers just because their kids...if that were the case, then we would have lots of kids playing Blackjack on ESPN.

[JeffP@UDE]

Just to throw in my 3 cents:

First, there is nothing stopping your local from running any age-restricted tournaments you want. In addition to your regular Advanced Format tournaments, feel free to talk to your store about having tournaments only for children under whatever age cutoff you want, and those tournaments are perfectly free to run using either Advanced or Traditional format. There's nothing wrong with that.

However, when you start talking about letting some players in a tournament using cards that are Forbidden while others cannot, then you open up a can of worms, as many others here have pointed out.

The best thing to do, in my opinion, is to hold these age-cutoff tournaments, but instead of just tournaments, they can also be "education learn-to-duel classes" where not only do the little kids get to play each other and have fun, but some of the older and more experienced folks at the store can teach them things that will help them get better, like not setting 5 trap cards in one turn, or show them which cards they should try to get to make their decks better, and which booster packs they come in (hey, gotta throw in a little subtle advertising for the hobby store to sell a pack or two, right?) :)

Either way, education is always going to be the best way to accomplish what you're looking for here.

Hand a kid Pot of Greed and he might win one game. Teach a kid how to use Pot of Avarice and he has a chance to win many more.

[Sword_Stalker]

very corny and right post Jeff.

at our local we hold "slifer" tournaments where kids that seem like they aren't ready to go into the full blown tournament comes to play against each other. basically it increases their odds of winning and helps them, but we put them in 'slifer'(beginner) because of their skill level, not age.

[DoctorNik]

Just to throw in my 3 cents:

First, there is nothing stopping your local from running any age-restricted tournaments you want. In addition to your regular Advanced Format tournaments, feel free to talk to your store about having tournaments only for children under whatever age cutoff you want, and those tournaments are perfectly free to run using either Advanced or Traditional format. There's nothing wrong with that.

However, when you start talking about letting some players in a tournament using cards that are Forbidden while others cannot, then you open up a can of worms, as many others here have pointed out.

The best thing to do, in my opinion, is to hold these age-cutoff tournaments, but instead of just tournaments, they can also be "education learn-to-duel classes" where not only do the little kids get to play each other and have fun, but some of the older and more experienced folks at the store can teach them things that will help them get better, like not setting 5 trap cards in one turn, or show them which cards they should try to get to make their decks better, and which booster packs they come in (hey, gotta throw in a little subtle advertising for the hobby store to sell a pack or two, right?) :)

Either way, education is always going to be the best way to accomplish what you're looking for here.

Hand a kid Pot of Greed and he might win one game. Teach a kid how to use Pot of Avarice and he has a chance to win many more.

that pretty much sums it up
the underage tourney doesnt have to be sanctioned so the kids can use whatever rules they want if they agree to it - god cards, etc

[House]

Hand a kid Pot of Greed and he might win one game. Teach a kid how to use Pot of Avarice and he has a chance to win many more.

Im taking this...

[Killer_Nacho]

Bad Idea.

Anything that gives one player an unfair advantage over another player on the basis of something not game-related is cheating.

Perhaps a better alternative would be run tournaments for only kids ages 10 and under, and if you want you could make it Traditional so they can use their banned cards...

[Setosama]

Well it's not original but how about age brakets, such as what some other TCGs do where only people of a certain age group are allowed to compete in that tournament...

Additional Comment:

This is because with kid tournies being traditional ud still have the problem of rich kids... rich parents buy the chaos cards for the littuns

Additional Comment:

Oops already suggested, this is wat i get for not reading all the posts in the thread :D

[o0AGE0o]

at my locals this could be a good idea. However. If you get a kid directly into advanced, and teach him bout the banlist and what works, then he will kick major ass. At regionals i was pwned by a 9 year old or whatever. It was embarrassing as hell man. Advanced Format turns someone into a good player. They understand why cards are banned. I guess thats what you gotta teach the kids.

[NoWayOut]

I would simply just teach my 8 year old brother how to play with ban cards and he would win every jump. great idea...

[JeffP@UDE]

that pretty much sums it up
the underage tourney doesnt have to be sanctioned so the kids can use whatever rules they want if they agree to it - god cards, etc

But that doesn't serve the purpose of educating them on how to play the game, especially to have them play with cards that aren't legal (in any format) and don't even have any text. Sure, I understand that it's fun for them to use Slifer, Obelisk and Ra because they see them on the TV show. Instead of that, however, maybe you can use the opportunity to teach actual Advanced Format and instead of Slifer, Obelisk and Ra, let them try to use Raviel, Hamon and Uria.

As much as we all want kids to have fun, we always want to teach them the correct way to play, and letting kids play by "any rules they want" only makes it tougher to teach them down the line.

Additional Comment:

Im taking this...

w00t! I'm immortal!

[Xing*]

Hm, IMO the best thing to do is not to give kids the upper advantage, but rather have a specific age group. Like 9 & under only. Forbidden cards in the hand of skilled kids like Kulman is devastating.

[yoshiboy]

Assuming we want more kids to take up the game, we want to make sure their first experiences are positive ones. True, some kids will stick with it no matter how tough we make it for them. Those kids, such as you and your friends, are great, but I think we should reach out to others, as well, if we want to grow the Yu Gi Oh! community. Imagine what would happen if society used this "learning should be hard" approach to math, reading, and music lessons?

Were you thrown into the deep end at your first swimming lesson? If you had been, do you think you might have switched to another activity?

Hey, are you going to dream wizards this weekend? If you do, my name is Nick. I have talked to u b4. You may not remember me though, Lol

[hafesie]

Several things.

Firstly, I wasn't even born when YGO came out (not true, ok, but I didn't play).

I didn't play during the time when chaos and yata lock and all those other noob decks were around.

I played when Mirror Force was 50 ea, trooper was 50 ea, monarchs were hell expensive (who buys a thesty for 20...and raiza for 16...) and I used a cheap, effective, UBKIRS deck. Won myself 2 locals, 4 HL promos, about 20 boosters for coming in 3rd place like a billion times, and had fun.

As you get older, you work for yourself...right? Now, with the extra money we have as older kids, we get monarch decks, etc etc.

The problem isn't whatever, whoever, however younger kids play. Let them use 10 copies of yata and 10 of Ced and let them specials ummon them both on the first turn. Yeah. IF THEY CAN GET THE CARDS. I think the thread is looking at the wrong issue...the reason older players kill younger ones is

Firstly, but rarely, experience. They know how to combat decks, and what to do almost instinctively.

Secondly, the way the brain works. Science has proven this (the brain thing), and younger kids tend to go for the anime cards as well. A younger kid would choose shadow spell over sakuretsu, because they think the 700 decrease is good. However, it only stalls the monster, an older player would think, and choose sakuretsu in the process. If they had an argument, the younger kid would argue that you can use premature burial on whatever got killed, and with shadow spell, the thing just stayed there.

True, but as most monsters are effect monsters, the effects could be used. Also, you would eventually need to kill the cursed monster anyway with one of your own...making it a potential 2-1 (your opponent might have a sakuretsu as well). For this reason, a 1-1 is better than a 2-1, so sakuretsu is better.

Thirdly, a minor issue. Kids don't understand that hand advantage is important. And I don't so why should they? It is FAR beneficial to get cards on the field off than the cards in the hand, cos the cards on the field actually do something. That is what I would think. So one would run 3 zaborgs over thesty in a monarch deck (not that they would have a monarch deck or anything). I would too, but there is just too much risk. Chances are, you would have brained an opponent's monster or something, and have to kill one of your own. In addition, if kids ran fissure/smashing, that is enough monster removal.

Hand control, to me, is useful. Hand advantage, however, simply having cards in your hand, is USELESS AND PITIFUL. Kid's understand that, but do not understand why hand control is important, only field control is.

And that is interesting, cos I see all these decks based around hand control saying if cards in the hand don't get in the field, they are useless. However, do young kids understand that?

From the way I've told this to you, you probably dont have a clue what I am on about.

So in simple, they do not understand game mechanics as well, such as hand control, draw power, they run man eater bug over dekochi, they actually run dekochi sometimes...in 3...when NOBLEMAN IS AT 2. So the format they do not undertstand, a kid in my tourney thinks that graceful charity is unbanned....

4th...is that older players, say 16, can work for money, spend like 100 a week on cards, so that is really saying they can get 3 raiza (45), 3 thesty (30), 2 Zaborg (20) with 5 bucks left to rip younger kids off. A younh kid sold an ultimate rare doomfire for 5 bucks...I would have said something but thought ti was impolite to interfere...I have interefered enough times in trades.

I must admit, I have ripped some people off (a common neospace I found on the ground for a soul exchange I needed for monarch), but if kids had the cards, they could play just as well as any player.

THis means that YGO is a money game, there is really 1-4 decks that pwn all others (in order, zombie, samurai, monarchs, mech beatdown(?)). If I had that 100 bucks to spend, I would easily construct a monarch and win. I know how to use the cards, which most kids will after reading pojo or something (I am not a 7 yo or anything like that, but technically a "kid")

So the reason young kids lose is that in their first match, sure, they don't know how to play well. But after a few, they still lose. Why? They don't have the money for a money game.

So the issue isn't young kids not knowing how to play, it is young kids not having money.

We can also solve the issue by somehow confiscating cash from older kids :)

[ssbm rocks1]

my local sometimes has 13 and under tourneys, maybe you could convince your store to have like 10 and under tourneys with no banned list.

[s h a n Y e]

I stick with what i said, this is a childrens game the tournaments should be for them not us in any way shape or form

[o0AGE0o]

I use to suck so bad until i got into Advanced format. I then learned what worked and i learned how to use them. That is how i became a good player. It was all bout advanced to me. Now im usually 1st place at my locals :D

But maybe they should have a age tournament. Like 13 on lower regionals or something. Age limits and what not. Or certain rankings. Do so well and you get a ranking to only play that ranked person. Idk, i confused myself again lol.

[Requiem_Spirit]

well, then the bigger kids get mad and either steal the cards or rip the kids off for a shiny Master of Oz ("ooooo...shiny"). I've seen it happen before and supervision isnt there always. nasty guy will lure kid with something cool looking.

[unbeatable]

Run 2 tourneys. One for experts/advanced players and the other for beginners/traditional.

i like this idea,but they should have the older kids help them out by giving them good commons and stuff.thats what we do at my locals,my brother pwns other little kids and he even gets plenty of compliments from the adults there.we do the same for all kids and encourage them so they will never give up and they do pretty well some days.many kids dont think on the level like more exsperienced people do.

[dan_the_man]

Well, I'm pretty sure that any 10 year old with any amount of common sense could beat any advanced deck if they happened to be playing a traditional deck.

Maybe I'm out of touch with 10 year olds, but I think a better solution to this problem would be a better hobby league.

[o0AGE0o]

Well, I'm pretty sure that any 10 year old with any amount of common sense could beat any advanced deck if they happened to be playing a traditional deck.

Maybe I'm out of touch with 10 year olds, but I think a better solution to this problem would be a better hobby league.

I play advanced and i pwn 10+ who are playing Traditional.

Like i said before, it was becoming and advanced player that gave me the skills i got today. Its usually the player. My friend won 1st place at locals with a deck with random stuff in it. Too bad i wasnt there.

[glittersword]

Before You say anything I know this is an old topic that I am resureccting but I do want to put in my 2 cents.

1st I agree with the original poster because just because a card is banned doesn't mean they shouldn't show they can use it properly. they can be scorrected in the tournament on any misplays as they happen and would know how to use the card if it does come off of the banned list. That is the education/training aspect.

2nd while a kid might be instructed in how to Yata-Lock that does not neccessarily mean they are ready to be promoted. When you have a kid operating under these rules have 2 copys of the ban list with check boxes next to them. one for them and one for you. If they do well with a Yata-Lock Deck put a a check mark next to Yata-Garasu and he is now actively banned for the player for the next tournament. Some cards could have their banned status activated quuickly because they are so simple or you might keep them inactive longer to let them have the advantage of Monster Reborn or Pot of Greed and to keep their opponent on their toes. If they start relying on a card too much though, put in the check mark and force them to look for an alternative.

The whole idea is to teach them, and give them a fighting chance.

There that is my 2 cents worth.

[Clear1]

Age division is a good thing in ygo, it is highly successful in Pokemon right now and kids are winning in their own little circle. This is, more or less, a good thing.

[Ehero Dragon Cannon]

At most Tournements (the larger ones anyway) they Tend to run a juniors tournement along side the seniors (juniors for under 13's only) this helps keep the balance. Admitedly, there is normaly one or two amoung them that plays like a pro and always wins, but they are given the option to play in the seniors though

[OneTurnKo_king]

2 tourenys, the little kid tourney has little prizes(1 pack-2) while advance has usal prizes(mats, DB,sleeves, CP) and ther little is advance but no ppl under 12 and the advance tourney dosen't have kids who don't know how to play (I HATE FACING KIDS WHO DON'T GET CARDS ESPECIALLY GEMINI AND crystal beasts)

[Nuuuuf]

...You mean, hold more trad tournaments? I agree.

[glittersword]

The problem I have with seperate tournaments is that all of the players ARE of the same skill level. It is a case of the blind leading the blind. In a single tournament with a handicapping system the will go up against more experienced players who KNOW the rules and the cards effects and can expose the newer players to them as they go along. Your opponent isn't going to impart any knowledge to you if he knows less than you do, and has a different set of rulings he thinks are right but aren't.

[DaLilBit]

...You mean, hold more trad tournaments? I agree.
Traditional is a double edged sword. On the one hand there's an opportunity to create decks that didn't exist before Advanced was implemented and improved older decktypes. On the other hand its likely that people will just play the tried and true decktypes and we'll be back to where we were in 2004.

On topic...I've always wanted there to be a beginner's league where kids could play other kids and not be exposed to older duelists. However, I'd prefer the beginner league to be two-pronged. It should be half theory(deckbuilding, rules, etc) and half playing. Each week the kids would get some product(this could be a pack or maybe a special promo) just for coming and then after their "lessons" they could improve their deck with their new card(s) and play some games. :) Everyone feels good about themselves and there aren't any older, more jaded players calling them noobs and trying to rip them. Kids have a different way of thinking when it comes to trades and I hate it when older players try to badger them into a trade they don't want to do.

[panamajones]

Assumptions:
1. We want Yu-Gi-Oh to grow its player base.
2. Most areas of the country have small turn outs at their local tournaments.
3. Kids get excited about Yu-Gi-Oh and find out that the local card shop has tournaments. They get their parents to take them.
4. Kids bring 80 card sleeveless decks full of forbidden cards, too many tributes and otherwise poorly constructed.
5. Kids get their heads handed to them.
6. Kids never return.

Solutions:
If the area has a large player base, by all means have age and/or skill bracketed tournaments. But if not, allowing these awful decks a half chance may mean that the kids get better and soon want to learn the "real" rules. And if they don't, well, their 10th birthday means they have to grow up in Yu-Gi-Oh. If they win every week then the TO is doing a lousy job paying attention and graduating the kid.

This doesn't need to be a UDE official thing, but UDE could/should provide stores with ideas on how to attract new players. My old card shop owner wanted to expand by putting a store next to the grocery store and advertise to parents to drop their kids off where they could play Yu-G-Oh, Pokemon, etc. and learn and have fun. Sadly his partners lacked his vision, and since he wasn't interested in barely covering the overhead, he got out.

[DaLilBit]

Assumptions:
1. We want Yu-Gi-Oh to grow its player base.
2. Most areas of the country have small turn outs at their local tournaments.
3. Kids get excited about Yu-Gi-Oh and find out that the local card shop has tournaments. They get their parents to take them.
4. Kids bring 80 card sleeveless decks full of forbidden cards, too many tributes and otherwise poorly constructed.
5. Kids get their heads handed to them.
6. Kids never return.

Solutions:
If the area has a large player base, by all means have age and/or skill bracketed tournaments. But if not, allowing these awful decks a half chance may mean that the kids get better and soon want to learn the "real" rules. And if they don't, well, their 10th birthday means they have to grow up in Yu-Gi-Oh. If they win every week then the TO is doing a lousy job paying attention and graduating the kid.

This doesn't need to be a UDE official thing, but UDE could/should provide stores with ideas on how to attract new players. My old card shop owner wanted to expand by putting a store next to the grocery store and advertise to parents to drop their kids off where they could play Yu-G-Oh, Pokemon, etc. and learn and have fun. Sadly his partners lacked his vision, and since he wasn't interested in barely covering the overhead, he got out.

UDE has every reason to want more players. Not only does more players = more money but goes a long way to ensure the longevity of the game. New blood is always welcome because it keeps the metagame from getting stale and that keeps older players in the game. There was an article on Magic's website about this topic recently. It basically says that everyone is responsible for keeping the game going. UDE is responsible for marketing(on the national and international level) and producing the product and managing OP, stores are responsible for marketing the product and OP on the local level, and players are responsible for keeping OP alive and ultimately for getting new people into the game.

[KingOfKings]

My younger brother who use to play Yugioh was about 9 years old. He and me went back to back for wins. And thats with people who have now won countless regs, t8'd regs, and have done so well. Hell he even beaten me before and he was only 9 and I was pretty young also. The young people dominated in those days. Because it really is a childrens card game, but we grew up.

I rather not have a 9 year old genius win every single sjc easily with such power house cards. The kid would be able to make a BROKEN undefeated deck. It would just be unstopable. It would be even possible to make a 100% FTK deck. Seriously bad idea is bad.

Close this thread.

[Ice_ghs]

kinda of hard to take a side.

They wherent around with the Yata and Chaos monster :(

But some one could make a Yata Lock or Chaos deck for them so they can just get prizes :(

Hmm tuff to chose one.

Why not have a Traditional Champion Chips and Advance.Along with a Tag-Team Turny world champion chips.

[Roland]

Who's necro posting?

[Skylerr]

I run under 13's advanced in Dublin, Ireland. We don't get that many as its like average of around 6 to 10 players in Junior. Seems to go down well with them.

[Snowman Eater]

there are like 2 kids that play here that are like 8 but have really good decks and know how to play because there dads play also.

[hbk1925]

then you get those genius kids who play and would come up with the Yata Lock and overkill everyone.

And that is exactly why the list goes for ALL players.

Just because they're children does not mean that they can't be as cunning as someone older.

[KuroKarasu]

First off, mods, please close this thread. It should've been dead a long time ago...

As for my actual opinion on this idea? Kids can be just as good as teens/adults. Giving them Traditional cards is like giving a monkey a flamethrower; someone's gonna get burned, sooner or later.

[Eric Engelmann]

And that is exactly why the list goes for ALL players.

Just because they're children does not mean that they can't be as cunning as someone older.

And that's why I specified that once the under-10 child wins, he automatically graduates to the advanced list. The boy genius could only whip the older kids one time, because he would then be forced, ever-after, to play by the same rules as the older players. It's the equivalent of giving a head-start in a swimming or running race. It makes it more interesting for both competitors. Of course, once the kid starts winning, he doesn't get the head start any more.

Having split tournaments for experienced and inexperienced players is a problem for small locals, and also deprives the new kids of the chance to learn from experienced players. If the TO is flexible enough, there could also be parallel prize tracks for the two classes of players, so that the top advanced player(s) always get(s) the advanced class prize(s). The new kids would be delighted with commons and banned holos as prizes, especially since they can actually USE them.

Lastly, I think it would be great to see advanced players actually sweating encounters with 7-year-olds sporting sleeveless 70-card decks.:D

[TheOtherElric]

Dead thread is dead.

[Jamez_is_Back]

so the kid would scoop finals everytime

[RedCW]

This rules is not fair. You could maybe let them use like three or five of the banned cards but thats it.

[asherpotter]

good idea, but make an exception for yada, keep it banned.

[baseball boy]

When Austin Kulman won National's, he's only a year older than 10. This idea worries me... I could live with this rule if it's only 8 (MAYBE 9) & under.

I was 11, lol.:p

[memo333]

Memo rules for the young.

1. Dont be noob.
2. Give ur secret rares to older duelers
3. Pass the tel number of ur sisters.
4. Pray to memo
5. Visit pojo , ask and learn.

[EVA-K]

First off, close the bloody thread. I'm sure necromancy's not legal in the US. =P

Second, awful idea. Kids shouldn't be wasting their time w/ this... trash heap called a game. They should play Magic instead.

[DaLilBit]

Second, awful idea. Kids shouldn't be wasting their time w/ this... trash heap called a game. They should play Magic instead.

Magic players are twice as mean, greedy, and unscrupulous as YGO players. The game itself is good but many of the people who play aren't people I'd want my little brother to meet(yes...he's 10 and plays Magic). Anyway...Magic doesn't have enough bling for kids to get into it. Kids love shiny cards and most Magic foils are meh.

[MrFlakes]

Bad idea, we wouldn't want our champs to be 9 years old, would we?

[stanthejew]

only problem with runnning a begginer tourney is any one can act like a noob then go in to sjc for beggings then just be like i win.. u kno doesnt work.. maybe a side event for like 11yr old and under

[Solemncaster]

I suppose you mean to have, in a single tournament, players over 10 years old using the advanced format, and ten-year olds and younger players using the traditional format? Don't you think these younger players would crush the older players? There is where your "win-win-win" idea is flawed. Banned cards are banned for a reason, and it's not like a younger player can't understand how powerful banned cards are. Older players, and even younger players that can't obtain the banned cards are on a disadvantage. The only "winner", or the only group that benefits becomes younger players who can afford the broken cards.

Now, before being quoted on "zomg, what's the difference on not being able to afford banned cards for traditional and not being able to afford broken cards for advanced?", keep in mind virtually any deck can win in traditional thanks to the banned cards. I have attended traditional tournaments where not only players had the banned cards, but also had fakes, and fake banned cards. You know it's a sad day when a paper CED blows all your life points -.- Thanks to fakes, everyone is able to obtain the banned cards, which would be the ideal way to play these tournaments. But the reality is different, having banned cards stay quite expensive, rare, and still being abusive.

I have played these tournaments (the ones with fakes and in traditional format) with my cards, using 1-2 banned cards only, maybe Pot of Greed, my OCG Crush Card Virus, and other things, using earth beatdown, control, and whatever, and I still had an upper-hand over younger players. I'm not saying I "crush/pwn" them, or anything, but I'm used to a competitive enviroment, I'm aware of rulings and odd situations, strategies, deck types, etc.

It's more of an issue of knowledge. Like I've said before, players with the banned cards will win. Altough most agree the banned cards "take no skill" to be played, players have to know of their existance to abuse them in the first place. Would a younger player realize it's more effective to center around a Chaos deck rather than playing a fun deck? Those who do, will have the upper-hand. Those who don't, will still be crushed, and the idea of these format will be flushed down the toilet.


Players under 10 CAN play in a competitive manner if they learn to do so. Even if it looks like "too much" for them, they may learn even faster than older players.

Finally, in my local store, the TO organizes non-sanctioned traditional events (the fake cards one I've mentioned). As prizes, he offers non-fake cards. He also offers advice, and some times I have even judged a few tourneys so that players understand how to play, as to "promote" them to sanctioned, advanced tournaments. I assure you, these kids HAVE come to advanced tournaments with competitive strategies as Hydrogeddons, Gravekeeper's Spy, Monarchs, Kycoos, whatever. It's not their Chaos deck without BLS and CED.

True.

There should be no new rules. If little kids have a problem with competive, they obliviously need some good sportsmanship Instead of ******* about how tough the game is. the point is, Improve your skills, and then play with the Experienced.

[EVA-K]

Magic players are twice as mean, greedy, and unscrupulous as YGO players. The game itself is good but many of the people who play aren't people I'd want my little brother to meet(yes...he's 10 and plays Magic). Anyway...Magic doesn't have enough bling for kids to get into it. Kids love shiny cards and most Magic foils are meh.

Honestly, the Yugioh players I've seen where I live are bigger asses than the Magic players, who are generally more polite in my experience, but what do I know... <shrugs>

[ChillyDawg41]

Honestly, the Yugioh players I've seen where I live are bigger asses than the Magic players, who are generally more polite in my experience, but what do I know... <shrugs>

it all really matters on the person themselves. its presumptuous to say all players of so and so game are this way etc. as eva said the magic players over there are nicer than the ygo ones. i've met jerks that play magic and jerks that play ygo. (i play ygo now but played magic on and off since ice age) and i've met polite players of both games. no matter what is being played, if there's competition there WILL BE arrogant, over confident people. BUT, there will also be nicer, friendlier ones.

[Red-eyes Amaterasu]

im not scared of dueling kids, no matter what cards they have;)

[batato]

I play in South Florida where Good teams play (Nexus, Untouchable, Villians and so on)

I see little kids get beat up in tourneys all the time, but I think the solution is to hold a tournament for novice. It just wouldnt be fair to allow them to use broken cards.

My 8 yr old daughter has bumped several good players out of a local tournament with her deck, including one that has topped 2 in a shonen jump just last year. My 7 year old son came in 3rd just 2 weeks ago again in a tournament with many strong duelist including myself.

There are kids under 10 that can beat you no matter how good you play or what deck you run. My 7 year old took down 2 DaD decks on his way to 3rd place with a legal deck.

Imagine if you let him run Feather Duster, Change of Heart, Riageki, Dark Hole, IMPERIAL ORDER LOL and pot of greed. He would **** every player in the tournament. How fair would that be?

bad idea but noble attempt. Seperate tourneys not allowing advanced players to participate in is probably the best answer.

[spybot]

we don't need another "near" with bls running around.

[John Danker]

When there used to be a store locally, we used to hold a Sat. morning 13 & under tournament. After a player finished 1st three times we would encourage them to "graduate" to the other tournaments to allow others to have a chance for success. If this wouldn't have worked I would have run the tournaments unsanctioned and required it.

I really don't think we do younger players any favors by allowing them to play whatever they wish. Part of the game is building a deck according to set guidelines and getting the most out of the format. There are other ways to help new players. We also ran mini-seminars after each 13 & under tournament on varying topics....deck building, chaining, special summons, etc.

Other ideas that worked nicely for youth:

We had a donations box. Any player that had cards they didn't want could donate them. Judges in their spare time sorted these cards and when a new player came into the store and needed help with their deck we pulled from the donations box to help shore up what they had. The store owner didn't mind this, "money cards" were seldom if ever donated of course so he didn't lose money on singles.

"House decks" made from donated cards we kept behind the counter. These decks the local judge team made of varying themes (Clown deck, burn, Zombies, Dragons, etc.) This allowed newer players to sign out and borrow a deck type they'd never played and see how they liked it without going to the trouble of collecting the cards first.

Structure decks were also kept behind the counter so that if a new player came into the store completely unprepaired for a tournament shortly before it started, they could borrow a structure deck for the tournament at hand.

Most importantly, we had (and still have) a great crew of volunteers who genuinely enjoy helping others. More young players will stick around and play the game for years to come because of a little involvement by a caring person to take them under their wing for a few weeks than for any other reason.

[Lazerball]

uhh, no **** that, i know plenty of young player who do well, they can look to the older players for help and support, no ****** handicap, thats comeplete bull****, ive been sacked by a 9 year old at a regional, **** that **** for sure

[glittersword]

As the one who "Raised the Dead" thread (and I said I was and why in my original post) I would like to say one more thing.

From the responses I have seen there are more Ideas and opinions being expressed. In that case the thread really isn't played out. It was just on a hiatus. I also believe it is better to resurrect a dead thread and keep everything together than to start a new thread and have it all repeated because nothing has been said already.

This thread had not "Dated" itself like an old sitcom that you KNOW was made itn the 70's in 10 seconds based on cars being driven and clothes and styles being worn. the topic is just as relevant now as when it was created.

[John Danker]

I agree with your thought pattern, especially when it comes to rules threads. The problem with those threads are that once a moderator considers them "answered" they close the thread when sometimes the question was answered incorrectly. Now, I WILL say that since Simon started moderating the Q&A section he is very careful about that practice, he's seen that practice of closing threads backfire on this site and as a moderator of numerous other sites he's had vast experience. When there is one thread covering a topic a search usually sends someone to the same thread with the most updated information at the end of the thread....rather than the search sending someone to a dozen threads with varying endings and from various time periods where there is information that may not apply anymore.

Often times, the way people learn the most is by going off on tangents from the subject matter at hand. This is a good thing, it helps us understand the game better.

[SSj2TeenGohan184]

Bad Idea the game would be further ruined.

[John Danker]

Bad Idea the game would be further ruined.

What idea are you referring to?

If you're referring to the idea of not closing threads, it's not an "idea" it's been implemented on other very successful sites. As long as the forum is managed well by good moderators it works exceedingly well and eliminates confusion and excess threads. It also keeps a running history of the topic without undo searching and sifting through numerous threads. As a matter of fact, Simon and my first moderator positions were on a forum that used this practice. We both considered it to be the best way....and still do.

[Tanthalas666]

I didn't read the entire thread, only the OP ;>.>

But, I don't think this is a good idea at all. Building a good deck and playing well is more a matter of resources and memorization then it is age/maturity/intelligence. I was first in the state for Pokemon in 3rd, 4th, and 5th grade. I ran Rain Dance, which I copied out of a Pokemon book and modified as new sets were released. I took an idea from someone, ran with it, and improved it, went to tournaments, and crushed kids who were 5-10 years older then I was. I play YGO with some of them now, and they remember me.

Those cards are simply too powerful. All this would accomplish would be the return of Chaos format, and only little kids would top things. Hell, I could teach my little brother how to play Chaos and build the deck for him, and he could go to Nats or top a jump.

[method of darkworld]

i have played kids in the 9-12 age range and i actually feel a little sad for them win i beat them. i would suggest that there be a under 13 y.o division. that way they wont have their joy of playing yugioh crushed when they lose to a older and much more skilled player. consider starting a training lessons for your son and his friends that also play, teaching them the do's and don'ts of tournament play or just talk to laurel(i think thats her name) and see how you can get a under 13 local tournament started .

[FlareWingman]

I really do not think we need new rules b/c of tournaments like TRU designed for little kids...hell I have been beated by little rich snobby kids before, and that is another reason not to have these rules...so that one day I may reclaim my honor :D

[Freaky Dave]

Run 2 tourneys. One for experts/advanced players and the other for beginners/traditional.

I agree with this way of play. Heck, this should also apply to sanctioned tourny's too. ..... Now that I think about it, nah. Some kind could play crappy at first, be one of those genius kids and cream the comp. Not cool. :p

[Kunx990]

My 9-year-old son, Noah, had what I think is an interesting idea to encourage younger children to compete in Yu-Gi-Oh, and stimulate sales in several ways.

His friends try to attend local tournaments, but get so badly crushed by older players that they become discouraged and turn to other games. Noah's idea was to change the rules for children under the age of 10 for non-premiere events only. Noah suggested that children under 10 would not have to follow the restricted lists for UDE sanctioned local tournaments.

Advantages:
1. Young kids would have a chance to play competitively, and even pro players would have to scramble to figure out how to beat their power cards.
2. Young kids often arrive now with illegal decks. If rules were changed, this would no longer be a problem.
3. Banned cards would again have some utility, even in areas where there is no traditional tourney competition. Kids would be eager to get Dark Hole, Pot of Greed, etc.
4. At the discretion of the TO, a child would be graduated to the restricted list if he has demonstrated, through victories, that he no longer needs a handicap.
5. The rule change could be simply implemented. Just a single sentence added to the Restricted List would do it.

This is a pretty radical change, and so will surely require a lot of discussion; however, based on my observations playing the game in the last year, it looks like a win-win-win to me.

Its called Traditional Format

[stringsbatman]

ya i think im pimpn till some 8 year old drops bls n ced . id cry if i scooped to an 8 year old. good idea tho

[alexis`on`fire]

3 Yata Garasu
3

3 Pot of Greed
3 Painful Choice
3 Graceful Charity
3 Delinquent Duo
3 Dark Hole
3 Raigeki
3 Forceful Sentry
3 Confiscation
3 Heavy Storm
3 Harpie's Feather Duster
3 Monster Reborn
3 Snatch Steal
1 Change of Heart
37

Sup?

[The_Dark_Monarch]

Who's necro posting?

Glittersword did it, blame him.lol
I thought I recalled replying to this.
Whatever I said before still stands. Do you guys know how I learned to swim? I was thrown into the deep end of a pool.

[wilsonater]

It will show them how much fun the game can be until the dreaded age of 10 and they kick and scream about not being able to play chaos anymore

[alexis`on`fire]

3 Yata Garasu
3

3 Pot of Greed
3 Painful Choice
3 Graceful Charity
3 Delinquent Duo
3 Dark Hole
3 Raigeki
3 Forceful Sentry
3 Confiscation
3 Heavy Storm
3 Harpie's Feather Duster
3 Monster Reborn
3 Snatch Steal
1 Change of Heart
37

Sup?

... =\

[Rollcage]

I was only 11 when I found this site, I had a bad, bad deck. I have got better thanks to the good people here, but I have seen other juniors get better at my local, the adults all help them with there decks, and we have prizes for the highest ranking junior. I think if more experienced players, mainly adults in that case helped, more children would be playing at a high level. The cartoon doesn't help at all though, the amount of kids that think E-heros are the best... I think the cartoon is unfairly misleading. I just don't believe children should get advantages, they just need help in understanding the game more, then just learning to play what cards and when to play them.

[glittersword]

Glittersword did it, blame him.lol
I thought I recalled replying to this.
Whatever I said before still stands. Do you guys know how I learned to swim? I was thrown into the deep end of a pool.

At least I admitted to it AND gave a reason why I did so. Only proper in my opinion. Also the response shows there are still people willing to contribute.

I still like the idea of gradually phasing them in until thier fundamental knowledge is proven, and then (Hell yes) throw them in the deep end. However in regards to that anology what you don't do with a kid is throw him in the deep end and walk away. The person doing the throwing better be willing to dive in and pull the throwee out if needed. No fair letting the kid drown. by the way there are two results from that approach. learning to swim or a phobia to water.
(Back to the duels) what we seem to be getting in the approach we are using now is some of the phobia along with teaching them and as expected they are walking away from the game.

We need to train and retain players and not see them run away from the card pool like abounch of half-drowned cats.

[Lightsworn]

Glittersword did it, blame him.lol
I thought I recalled replying to this.
Whatever I said before still stands. Do you guys know how I learned to swim? I was thrown into the deep end of a pool.

I myself learnt to swim in the sea. No deep end there. :D

Eh, just have younger leagues. Unless a game is dangerous (like rugby) then you don't need to tone it down.