The CCV & Gold Sarcophagus Problem Part 2

[Velvet Jones]

Part 2

Disclaimer: If I choose to I could buy a $2500 Crush Card today.

First of let me start by saying that I by saying that I am fully aware that life is not fair or equal. There will always be those that have and those that have not. That is not the fundamental problem with the latest wave of SJC Prize cards. The problem is access and potency. Previous prizes cards may have been prized for the status and value to collectors, but these cards are very different. In short, they win games. Therein lies the problem. Anyone that has had to duel an opponent with a Crush powered deck knows this all to well. With so much power in the hands of so few how do the powers that be expect to have anything that resembles a level playing field? In SJC Indy 2 of the Top 16 packed Crush Card. That number jumped to 5/16 in SJC DC and you can expect that ratio to increase as the meta develops. The cards belong to a few random people, but for the most part are held en masse by a few teams throughout the USA. Does this seem like a problem to anyone other than myself? The natural conclusion is that if you hope to be able compete at the current SJC level you will need access to Crush Card. That is an unlikely occurrence due to the fact that those who own them will rightfully use them at premiere events in order to win more highly sought after cards. Solution? Release Crush Card in a similar fashion as Shrink! was released. This would good for the game on several levels. The most important being the ability to level the playing field from a certain 40 or so and extend it to the masses.


There are varying view on the overall power and brokeness of a particular. This is not the issue. The issue is too much power for too few people.

Discuss.




I consistently against 4 CCV powered duelists on a weekly basis. And they are all great duelist to boot. Fili Luna, Jason Holloway, Jake McNeely, and Chris Bowling (Team Outphase)are names that you should know by now. I play against them in test play as well as locals and regionals. I don't lose everytime I get CC, but it definitely changes the overall game. Ironically I have a winning record vs. CCV, but that is not the issue. In addition, I can buy one if I wished and I know all to well how to play around it. That is not the point. The point is that CCV is too much power to be had in the hands of so few.

[Guillermoman]

I think that it is nice the SJC's prize is a great card. Since UDE can't give out cash prizes, it is the next best thing. They can either keep the card as a useable trophy or sell it to make it worth the cost of going to the SJC.

[VampireGod]

It's actually not hard to get around CCV users. I play gadgets (since I can't afford a zombie deck), and they're relatively immune to ccv. The only cards I'd play that get hit would be my 2x mobius, and I'm not even concerned about that.


As for sarcophagus, I haven't played against that yet, so can't make an informed post on it.

[Shadow of Death]

a player who goes through a 9-10 round tournament, then has to play 3-4 more people who are considered at the moment to have performed as the best in the tournament just to have a chance at it deserves to be the owners of the card. Also someone who can afford to spend $2,500 on this card should rightfully be able to do so. It may seem unfair, but did you work hard to get it, or be able to afford it? I'd think if someone works hard to achieve something they deserve to be able to have the advantage over someone who didn't work as hard. Yeah, it's yugioh, so often times it's also luck involved, or perhaps they cheated to get there, but in those cases life isn't fair to begin with.

If it was fair we'd all have a nice house, a nice car, live a nice life, and not have to worry about making end's meet like many people do in american society today. Nothing is completely fair no matter where in life you are at, you will go through a time period when you feel others have an advantage over you in some specific area. Yugioh is no different. If yugioh was about being fair we'd be able to start this game with every card in existence, and any time a new card was released we'd all get our own copies. We'd get that trophy for showing up, but instead everyone has different cards, different amounts of cards.

It's all about then making the best of what you have. I started playing yugioh with a burn deck because that was all I could afford. I won for months and got cards. I found a nice store and offered to judge, as compensation the owner voluntarily would give me new stuff (either 3-4 packs of a new set, a special edition, etc) for judging that night. I'd pull decent stuff. I built a chaos deck eventually, and used that to win a couple boxes of new sets each format, and in those boxes used the holos as tradebait to get the stuff I needed. I bought maybe one or two cards over that entire period. I buy much more now because I both am fortunate to have quite a bit of extra money, and because I can sell cards for profit rather easily, but back then I started with very little. now i'm just a CCV, and an Il Blud short of building any tier 1 competitive deck of the format, and the only reason I don't bother with il blud is because I personally don't want one (in the CCV case I just can't afford $2,000+ at the moment, so instead I'll try making more events, win a sarco, and try to get a CCV in a trade for that since I don't care for sarcophagus personally).

In short, the point of this is that you people complain too much about the cards you don't have when you have enough cards to make a deck. If you hate running the same deck over and over (like one guy I know ) either try to get more cards, or don't complain to us about it. Everyone has a fair advantage in the sense that each of us has the capability of getting the cards we want. It's just the world itself that makes it so some have more than others in that realm. As for the CCV argument, most have worked hard for it, they deserve to have something powerful to use over someone who hasn't worked as hard. I mean all of those that complain, how many put more effort than whining about the card themselves? Have you tried to become better at this game? Make an initial investment on expensive cards so you can be competitive and get 4 digit value cards? You probably haven't done anything and just need to complain about what you can't have. It's nobodies fault but your own at that point.

[Blast Hornet]

Velvet Jones speaks the truth.

How come only the really good players get the really good cards while the rest are stuck with the mediocre? I mean, let's look at it like this: I good player, like Jon Labounty, has a distinct advantage over a halfway decent player like myself because he has a far better undertsanding of the game and has been in pressure packed situations before. He can flat out pound me (and has, too). That is like a modern day David vs. Goliath. But now that he's got a Crush and Chest, that's like giving Goliath the slingshot and leaving David with nothing. The odds were stacked against the rest of the field enough when it comes to playing the best in the game, but now KoJ wants the rest of us to try and jump that hurdle as well? They might as well say they only want a select handful to really succeed.

Releasing Crush like Shrink is the best way to even out the playing field. Plain and simple.

[SSj2TeenGohan184]

a player who goes through a 9-10 round tournament, then has to play 3-4 more people who are considered at the moment to have performed as the best in the tournament just to have a chance at it deserves to be the owners of the card. Also someone who can afford to spend $2,500 on this card should rightfully be able to do so. It may seem unfair, but did you work hard to get it, or be able to afford it? I'd think if someone works hard to achieve something they deserve to be able to have the advantage over someone who didn't work as hard. Yeah, it's yugioh, so often times it's also luck involved, or perhaps they cheated to get there, but in those cases life isn't fair to begin with.

If it was fair we'd all have a nice house, a nice car, live a nice life, and not have to worry about making end's meet like many people do in american society today. Nothing is completely fair no matter where in life you are at, you will go through a time period when you feel others have an advantage over you in some specific area. Yugioh is no different. If yugioh was about being fair we'd be able to start this game with every card in existence, and any time a new card was released we'd all get our own copies. We'd get that trophy for showing up, but instead everyone has different cards, different amounts of cards.

It's all about then making the best of what you have. I started playing yugioh with a burn deck because that was all I could afford. I won for months and got cards. I found a nice store and offered to judge, as compensation the owner voluntarily would give me new stuff (either 3-4 packs of a new set, a special edition, etc) for judging that night. I'd pull decent stuff. I built a chaos deck eventually, and used that to win a couple boxes of new sets each format, and in those boxes used the holos as tradebait to get the stuff I needed. I bought maybe one or two cards over that entire period. I buy much more now because I both am fortunate to have quite a bit of extra money, and because I can sell cards for profit rather easily, but back then I started with very little. now i'm just a CCV, and an Il Blud short of building any tier 1 competitive deck of the format, and the only reason I don't bother with il blud is because I personally don't want one (in the CCV case I just can't afford $2,000+ at the moment, so instead I'll try making more events, win a sarco, and try to get a CCV in a trade for that since I don't care for sarcophagus personally).

In short, the point of this is that you people complain too much about the cards you don't have when you have enough cards to make a deck. If you hate running the same deck over and over (like one guy I know ) either try to get more cards, or don't complain to us about it. Everyone has a fair advantage in the sense that each of us has the capability of getting the cards we want. It's just the world itself that makes it so some have more than others in that realm. As for the CCV argument, most have worked hard for it, they deserve to have something powerful to use over someone who hasn't worked as hard. I mean all of those that complain, how many put more effort than whining about the card themselves? Have you tried to become better at this game? Make an initial investment on expensive cards so you can be competitive and get 4 digit value cards? You probably haven't done anything and just need to complain about what you can't have. It's nobodies fault but your own at that point.

You said it better then I ever could myself, Yu gi oh like life is far from fair

[JeffMop]

Velvet Jones speaks the truth.

How come only the really good players get the really good cards while the rest are stuck with the mediocre? I mean, let's look at it like this: I good player, like Jon Labounty, has a distinct advantage over a halfway decent player like myself because he has a far better undertsanding of the game and has been in pressure packed situations before. He can flat out pound me (and has, too).

Ummm...then why don't you just try to get better? It's not like good players were born good. They learned how to be as good as they are through work and practice. It just sounds to me like you're saying you're too lazy to work to get better, but you want the same rewards as the person who does, which makes no sense.

[Rarehunter22]

Velvet Jones speaks the truth.

How come only the really good players get the really good cards while the rest are stuck with the mediocre?
Because those really good players, are Really GOOD. Be it for the fact that they have the best cards o the resources, or the combo of both. Those players are the people who come up with SJC and REG winning decks and ideas, those are the players who spend the time to travel all over, who invest a lot more effort into this game than just those of us players who are good but dont travel. Not everyone will get those cards right away, because not everyone travels OUT OF STATE, MONTH AFTER MONTH, to play YGO. NO im not saying we all can, but come on people, we dont NEED those cards.
CCV is only deadly if you rely on high level monsters, and if u let the fear of facing it get to you
There are ways around Sarc too. Right now they seem amazing and unstoppable, but no combo is unstoppable. Overcoming takes Skill AND Luck, but CCV and Sarc are just 1 or 2 of the cards in a deck. They arent that formidable if you are ready for them.



Releasing Crush like Shrink is the best way to even out the playing field. Plain and simple.
No Im sorry, this isnt the solution, bc if this happens, where it is a SUPER from a SE like Shrink, then it will be in EVERY deck or side, thats a fact. Every person will either play it or play against it every game of every match of every tourny, be it local, reg or SJC.
Instead of complaining about How its unfair, work together on a way to combat the CCV and Sarc. Actually, if we all were to combine our efforts and use some logical thought, we would all realize there are ways around these cards, they are just like stein and there were ways around Stein. Come on POJO, lets drop this argument and just accept that Yes, evwentually the CCv and the Sarc will be released, but until then lets fight against them, drop the "unfair advantage" ****. Even if it is true, its like that bc of a time and effort investment difference. Any1 of us can win an SJC with effort,time and of course the right combo of cards.
RH22

[Velvet Jones]

Updated and edited for all who keep making the argument concerning "good players".

I consistently against 4 CCV powered duelists on a weekly basis. And they are all great duelist to boot. Fili Luna, Jason Holloway, Jake McNeely, and Chris Bowling (Team Outphase)are names that you should know by now. I play against them in test play as well as locals and regionals. I don't lose everytime I get CC, but it definitely changes the overall game. Ironically I have a winning record vs. CCV, but that is not the issue. In addition, I can buy one if I wished and I know all to well how to play around it. That is not the point. The point is that CCV is too much power to be had in the hands of so few.

[DragonAlchemist]

Ummm...then why don't you just try to get better? It's not like good players were born good. They learned how to be as good as they are through work and practice. It just sounds to me like you're saying you're too lazy to work to get better, but you want the same rewards as the person who does, which makes no sense.

This is true. The players that have them now (I'll just go by "chosen few"), how do you think they got them in the first place? They went through those 13-14 matches just like we do in order to get to those prize cards. What's the difference? They know which widely accessible cards to use and how to use them. That can only be done through practice and being able to think ahead of everyone else.

Even if they didn't have the prize cards, would the "chosen few" consider themselves to be on equal playing field with us? If they did, they would search for a way to be better, not rant and whine about it...

[Velvet Jones]

This is true. The players that have them now (I'll just go by "chosen few"), how do you think they got them in the first place? They went through those 13-14 matches just like we do in order to get to those prize cards. What's the difference? They know which widely accessible cards to use and how to use them. That can only be done through practice and being able to think ahead of everyone else.

Even if they didn't have the prize cards, would the "chosen few" consider themselves to be on equal playing field with us? If they did, they would search for a way to be better, not rant and whine about it...


You are forgetting about the loaned cards being used in side events to garner additional cards. Simply put if you get one you have an advantage in getting another. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. The cards are held primarily by 3 teams across the US and that is remarkable.

In addition, noting a marked disparity in access, usability, and availablity is not whining. It is a simply a logical observation.

[Memo333]

omg plz dont buy a 2500 ccv....thats stupid ass hell.

Wait until ude make his mind and mass release it....like happened to shrink.

[Shadow of Death]

Updated and edited for all who keep making the argument concerning "good players".

I consistently against 4 CCV powered duelists on a weekly basis. And they are all great duelist to boot. Fili Luna, Jason Holloway, Jake McNeely, and Chris Bowling (Team Outphase)are names that you should know by now. I play against them in test play as well as locals and regionals. I don't lose everytime I get CC, but it definitely changes the overall game. Ironically I have a winning record vs. CCV, but that is not the issue. In addition, I can buy one if I wished and I know all to well how to play around it. That is not the point. The point is that CCV is too much power to be had in the hands of so few.

that's how it should be. CCV is just an extra win condition, but it's not always their only one, and there's still plenty times you can win against a deck maining CCV. The fact it's a game ender is the only reason behind people not liking the advantage as much as they do, but unless stacked you won't always see CCV much less win with it. It just provides another game ending opportunity to their deck. You can easily run PCM without a CCV, but with CCV it just adds to the consistency of the deck and another method to winning.

[d.d. ewg]

ccv is NOT broken but it could be.

anyway i hop ccv gets reprinted soon.

[d.d. ewg]

ccv is NOT broken but it could be.

anyway i hop ccv gets reprinted soon.

[Matt_Lane]

oh well they'll be mass releasing it soon...within about a year i would think...........untill then there's really nothing you can do...

[Personofsecrets]

Get it over with and just ban it.

I can imagine everyone already, saying,

CRu5h c4rD5 iz rep12Int3D N0wz,,,,, 4nD Y0uz no00bz s7illL An7 hhaP`/. 5T0P COMPPPLAAAINUIIGN 4NDDD USSS#33 4 beT7eer EDecK!!!11! Li3k Bu12n 4nD G$DGE&%!

[Vash the Duelist]

oh well they'll be mass releasing it soon...within about a year i would think...........untill then there's really nothing you can do...

Oh really. :rolleyes: Is that insider information?

Anyway, CCV is a powerful card and coupled with Gold Sarcophagus in the same deck is a recipe for a dominating deck.

Although the winning deck at Chicago was a burn lock that did not run a CCV.

[Matt_Lane]

perhaps but weather it's inside info or not think about it, if they don't mass release it soon ppl WILL start to quit do to thier tolarence of the subject...

[Vash the Duelist]

The number of people quitting would have to be in the thousands to make a significant impact.

[Matt_Lane]

true but EVENTUALY ALOT of ppl will quit if they don't i'm not saying a year but it HAS to be soon...take my word :rolleyes:

[grenmajuman]

No, they won't quit the game. No, I don't think Crush should be released en masse.

This is simply because these players earned these cards. And yes, they are using these cards to win more of these cards. But you know what? That's life. The game needs cards like that to throw off the balance. Good players are good because they learned how through playtesting and practice. Sure, they have the resources to go and play in SJC's, but so what?

It's almost like a badge of honour in my opinion, for winning a SJC or a side event. If you give that badge to everyone, then it becomes less special to the person who worked so hard to achieve it. And as you state Velvet, it's not like Crush is unbeatable ;)

[Zoahinx]

I don't get it. Some people's solution to CCV is to mass release it. Yea, that's really gonna solve the problem here. It will even out the playing field, but do really want a metagame where every deck has CCV in it or has a side-deck for CCV? Not I. CCV isn't as powerful as it is rare and a lot of you forget that. If anything, Deck Devastation Virus is more powerful than CCV when used at the correct time, which is nearly all the time.

One of you complained "Why should the really good players get it and the average players don't?" Because it is what's called a "prize" and you have to earn it to get it. It's common sense, the good players get what's coming to them, fame (within the yugioh world) and prizes. You act as if they did nothing to get their prizes and titles, as if they were born with the knowlegde of Yugioh. They simply worked hard, practiced, and stuck with it till the end. Don't complain because they succeed where you fail.

You want a CCV? Earn it. Go beat the expert players with YOUR skill alone and win a prize card, only to have your prize card, all your hard work and sacrifice in card form, be mass released to the public. Wouldn't like that, would ya? What you have to understand is that CCV and the other prize cards were earned and are not only powerful playable cards, but they are a symbol of that player's skill.

[Matt_Lane]

No we're not saying that they didn't "earn" their prize and fame but having a card that has such an over powerful effect all to them selves (i believe there's somewhere around like what 50 CCV?) for too long. Yes they've had it for awhile now and time's up, time to let the rest of us play w/ them. YES they WILL mass release it soon, idc what you have to say about that it's a matter of supply and demand situation and the demand for CCV to be mass released will get UDE to release it.

[Zoahinx]

No we're not saying that they didn't "earn" their prize and fame but having a card that has such an over powerful effect all to them selves (i believe there's somewhere around like what 50 CCV?) for too long. Yes they've had it for awhile now and time's up, time to let the rest of us play w/ them. YES they WILL mass release it soon, idc what you have to say about that it's a matter of supply and demand situation and the demand for CCV to be mass released will get UDE to release it.

I still think that it doesn't need to be mass released. The only good I see of it being mass released is that it will just be one more card to slow down monarchs. But what I'm saying is that as soon as you mass release it, you are stripping away the feeling of accomplishment and pride of having that card from those who won a CCV. Also, I would probably agree that it does need to be mass released if it was a much better card. I'm not saying that CCV is a bad card in any way, but the few times I've had it used on me, it never really did that much. DDV is the one you usually want to watch out for.

[bad_fr20]

release it over there as a ghost rare with the cover card for gladiators assault! haha. lets see how much that would go for in ebay. but the fact of the matter is, crush card is readily available for anyone here in asia since it got printed in sd12. sure its powerful but it doesn't mean that access to it should be limited to those chosen few. those who already have it would still be proud of the crush card they won from sjc, cause they earned it. it only seems powerful there in the US cause its relatively new to the tcg player but in other asian countries, its not always a going to be in the deck of the player even if its readily available.

[Guillermoman]

The only reason why I don't think CCV is banned list (read: broken) material is that it is too inconsistent. Sure, there are times when your opponent will chain CCV on their f/d Sangan when you NoC and happen to have a hand full of monarchs and the next three draws of 1500+ creatures, but there are also times when your opponent tributes their Spirit Reaper and you have no 1500+ creature in play, in your hand, or will draw in three turns. Plus it is only one "unsearchable" card.

[dan_the_man]

CCV is just too good to only be available to so few, even if they "deserve" to own it. They do deserve to own it because of past victories. But that creates an uneven playing field down the road, which shouldn't be the case.

Ban CCV, then make the prize card vanilla jank that is worth the same amount of money, except just to collectors.

[Yussa Tampon]

CCV is just too good to only be available to so few, even if they "deserve" to own it. They do deserve to own it because of past victories. But that creates an uneven playing field down the road, which shouldn't be the case.

Ban CCV, then make the prize card vanilla jank that is worth the same amount of money, except just to collectors.

less temptation to play in SJC's. I was discouraged to go to SJC's when des craps was the prize (even if I knew I wasn't going to have a big chance)

when Shrink was the prize card I was more tempted to play. at the time I was poor though

[grenmajuman]

Yes they've had it for awhile now and time's up, time to let the rest of us play w/ them. it's a matter of supply and demand situation and the demand for CCV to be mass released will get UDE to release it.

Lol no. Just no.

Players that have CCV have no "responsibility" to hand over their control to scrubs that doesn't deserve them. Stop having wet dreams over a ******* trap card. If it's going to be released en masse, then it will, but don't expect it to be hand-fed to you just so your win ratio will go up.

Scrubs stay scrubs. Players PLAY for longer, get better, and become Pros. Pros get the good cards.

[Xing*]

I have only 1 thing to say:

I can understand that people say people who won those cards deserve to use them, but deserving to use them simply because they're rich or willing to spend thousands of dollars on a cardboard is just wrong. AL LEAST allow them to earn them through skill.

[grenmajuman]

Why is it wrong?

As far as I'm concerned, if they want to spend that much on cardboard.. they deserve to win as many games as they want.

$2500 for ****'s sake. Take a girl out, that much cash will get you laid, guarenteed.

[Xing*]

It's wrong because:
1. You are winning because you are simply rich
OR
2. You are dum enough to waste 2500 on a cardboard

So other people gets a less chance of winning just because of the 2 aforementioned reasons? That is not justified to any level. You should be skilled enough to win that prize card. They do not deserve to win as much as they want, I am sick of rich people getting any card they want. If you don't ahve the skills you don't deserve to win.

[grenmajuman]

Screw the rules, I have money. - Seto Kaiba.

That quote pretty much sums up Yugioh. It's a crappy realisation I know. I have to go without Trooper and Raiza because of it.. but that's what I gotta live with.

It's something we all gotta live with.

[Xing*]

Sadly that's the truth. For a few moments I thought you were one of those rich people who says "I got money, screw you poor people" kind of person.

[Ridders]

If you haven't worked this out by now. Rich people usually buy whatever the hell they like and don't give a crap how sick you are of them doing it.

I was going to argue more, but I can't be bothered to argue with someone who has a zealous 'right' to try and argue about rights and wrongs and then ignores me for scaling of which he has no prove.

I like his sig though...who knew that being selfish, immortal and ripping off people had anything to do with moderating an internet based forum on a card game.

Anyhoo, drop the crap about Rich people, seeing as its obviously not them your beef is with, how about you complain about the people who SELL their CCV's etc. How is it a rich players fault or for them to buy it deemed as 'wrong' when someone else who won put it up for sale in the first place?

[Xing*]

First of all, your rude attitude seriously needs an adjustment. I can't stand that every thread I go I have at least 1 rude person in it. Since I blocked so many people, I can't remember which ones scaled. But I did distinctively remember you posting about scales in that scaling thread. You just love to pick fights with me don't you? I never said it was rich people's fault. I'm saying they don't deserve it. Of course I can not do anything to stop rich people from getting stuff, but I always think that rich people don't deserve what they got in this card game. Same thing with COTPS. While he does a good being doing what he does on here, he doesn't DESERVE to be mod (at least IMO), simply because that he's a horrible person. If you want to continue this conversation, feel free to PM.

[Spells]

hope this ends soon because if this card is so powerful and everyone wants it then we are in trouble if its ever massed produced because everyone would run one thanxs for listening.

[Swmystery]

One of you complained "Why should the really good players get it and the average players don't?" Because it is what's called a "prize" and you have to earn it to get it. It's common sense, the good players get what's coming to them, fame (within the yugioh world) and prizes. You act as if they did nothing to get their prizes and titles, as if they were born with the knowlegde of Yugioh. They simply worked hard, practiced, and stuck with it till the end. Don't complain because they succeed where you fail.

In motor racing, the winning driver recieves a reward for his victory. That's all very right and proper. What that reward does NOT do is give him an advantage over everyone else. If the prize for the next major racing event suddenly included a special part that would give the winner an advantage in every future race, everyone else would hit the roof. Apply that situation to this game. CCV and Gold Sarcophagus are essentially that special car part. No one can argue that CCV and GS don't give any form of advantage to the user. Thus, anyone who uses CCV/GS has an unfair advantage over everyone else. Yes, they earned a prize. They did NOT earn such a powerful advantage over everyone else who plays this game.

Shrink, Cyber-Stein, and Des Volts. were, in essence, the perfect SJC cards. Exceedingly rare and thus valuable, but if you chose to keep them, you didn't gain a large advantage in the way you do if you own CCV or GS. If UDE chose cards of that quality (as opposed to borderline broken cards like CCV and GS), this problem wouldn't exist, and neither would the problem of the specific teams using these cards to gain more of them and repeat (in an odd way, it's like the Rare Hunters from the anime). People don't all go to SJC's to win one of four cards, and even those who did would still go for the chance of winning such a rare card, even if it wasn't as powerful as CCV or GS. I don't seem to recall a problem with SJC attendance back when Shrink was the prize card, after all.

Yes, life's not fair. I know that. I also know that that applies to this game, because if it were fair we'd all have easy access to every card. We can't do anything about the fact that life isn't fair, but we can try and make this game more fair. And if we can, we should. Using "that's life" or "life isn't fair" is just a cop-out. Life under the Nazis in occupied Europe wasn't fair either, but that didn't stop us from winning the war (so to speak), did it?

[grenmajuman]

Except that Cyber Stein did sorta cause a ruccus.. didn't he? :)

The fact of that matter is that, for all our *******g at each other, the people with CCV and GS still have these cards, and won't be relinquishing them unless a large some of money and / or cards are involved.

We'll see what happens the day CCV / GS get released en masse. If they do.

[Sasuke Uchiha]

You are forgetting about the loaned cards being used in side events to garner additional cards. Simply put if you get one you have an advantage in getting another. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. The cards are held primarily by 3 teams across the US and that is remarkable.

In addition, noting a marked disparity in access, usability, and availablity is not whining. It is a simply a logical observation.

Then I have an idea. :)

Only allow those who've actually won the prize card the SJC's the option to use them again in other SJC's, until they are reprinted.

That stops other really "pro" players from borrowing prize cards. :)

<><><>

Also, I'm willing to steal the prize cards from the three US teams that have them. srlsy.

[DragonAlchemist]

You are forgetting about the loaned cards being used in side events to garner additional cards. Simply put if you get one you have an advantage in getting another. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. The cards are held primarily by 3 teams across the US and that is remarkable.

In addition, noting a marked disparity in access, usability, and availablity is not whining. It is a simply a logical observation.

I know that is the process that is used now. However, I based my statement in regards to the earlier days of the SJC circuit when the access to effective cards was a bit more open and gameplay + innovation decided who won "said prize card"...

With how it is now, as you stated, loaning the cards to acquire additional copies is what's happening and many teams and players are observing it. Don't get me wrong, it clearly is a genius strategy and with that said, there are those that believe that the loaning of those cards with a higher gameplay impact (Crush Card Virus and Gold Sarcophagus) isn't fair because it's limited to the "chosen few" and 1/2 of those people actually will whine and complain about it. The other 1/2 will either play it through to the point where they can do well without and/or against it or actually gain one on their own.

[Swmystery]

Except that Cyber Stein did sorta cause a ruccus.. didn't he? :)

Not until we got Cyber Twin and Cyber End, which was after the card had been reprinted, I believe. Not the same situation. When Stein was an SJC card, I don't think there was much to abuse it with (although I could be wrong).

[Sword_Stalker]

Screw the rules, I have money. - Seto Kaiba.

That quote pretty much sums up Yugioh. It's a crappy realisation I know. I have to go without Trooper and Raiza because of it.. but that's what I gotta live with.

It's something we all gotta live with.

ironically most of the time i hear scoop, it is over someone with a lot more money sunk into the game. the wierd thing is they can give the opponent $200 and they might scoop instead. 9 round, about 1800 dollars. then you play the big guys with the jankyest deck ever. get gold sarcophagus card, sell it. get 700 back. basically you can spend the money bribing people instead of getting cardboard that might suck for you

[Matt_Lane]

Lol no. Just no.

Players that have CCV have no "responsibility" to hand over their control to scrubs that doesn't deserve them. Stop having wet dreams over a ******* trap card. If it's going to be released en masse, then it will, but don't expect it to be hand-fed to you just so your win ratio will go up.

Scrubs stay scrubs. Players PLAY for longer, get better, and become Pros. Pros get the good cards.
Do you even understand how UDE operates/thinks? They don't care about what's fair and not, they care about money. If demand is high enough they release it (as long as they have the "right" to release it) because releasing a card that's going to make them lots of money do to demand they'll do. Do you really think they're going to keep it at only 50 copies that are unrealiticly in possible to get? No. They will be mass releasing it. If they do lets say it's in a package thing that's like lets say $10 USD. Ok, so just think about the profit they'll get from this if basicly everyone that plays yugioh buys just one. Now IDK what percentage they get but regardless that's ALOT of money. Also being pro has nothing to do with getting good cards, anyone with good friends can get good cards (excluding SJC Prize cards not massed).

[KING GEAR]

It's actually not hard to get around CCV users. I play gadgets (since I can't afford a zombie deck), and they're relatively immune to ccv. The only cards I'd play that get hit would be my 2x mobius, and I'm not even concerned about that.


As for sarcophagus, I haven't played against that yet, so can't make an informed post on it.
That's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. "LOL RUN A DIFFERENT DECK SO YOU DON'T GET HIT BY ONE CARD THAT ONLY AROUND FORTY PEOPLE HAVE". Not to mention you're running Mobius in a Gadget deck, in multiples no less.

Additional Comment:

Then I have an idea. :)

Only allow those who've actually won the prize card the SJC's the option to use them again in other SJC's, until they are reprinted.

That stops other really "pro" players from borrowing prize cards. :)

<><><>

Also, I'm willing to steal the prize cards from the three US teams that have them. srlsy.
That idea is ridiculously stupid, as it would make winning a Shonen only worth around $800.

[Zoahinx]

It's wrong because:
1. You are winning because you are simply rich
OR
2. You are dum enough to waste 2500 on a cardboard

So other people gets a less chance of winning just because of the 2 aforementioned reasons? That is not justified to any level. You should be skilled enough to win that prize card. They do not deserve to win as much as they want, I am sick of rich people getting any card they want. If you don't ahve the skills you don't deserve to win.

So what you and the other people are whining about is that having few CCV's makes the game unfair. Who ever told you that yugioh was fair? Life is not fair and hardly anything in it is. Get used to it. You can't expect Konami/UDE to fix the game completely so that no one has any advantage over anyone else.

You say that it's not fair that people can just buy them off Ebay. Do you really think that $2500 is walking-around money? They could buy every other card that they needed instead of a CCV and they would win duels.

For the last time, CCV isn't as good as people make it out to be. It's situational and it's effect may not always be worth it. The few times I've had it played on me, it hardly hit anything. It's a -2 card with the ability to be up to about a +1 or +2.

[VampireGod]

I'm a scrub who only makes stupid comments on message boards, since I don't have enough brain cells to debate logically and intelligently.

See above, and quit ygo scrub.

[TwilightDu0]

You... you do all know what will happen if they mass release CCV right? Your all know that as soon as they bring it out in a pack or as a promo it'll get bannd.

So the question becomes, are you that much of an ass that because you cant use it you think no one should be able too?

[Matt_Lane]

and just why is it going to be banned? the OCG has had it massed since forever and it's only at one. crush isn't BROKEN when we all have one to use it's only truly broken when only 40-50 ppl have it

[TwilightDu0]

and just why is it going to be banned? the OCG has had it massed since forever and it's only at one. crush isn't BROKEN when we all have one to use it's only truly broken when only 40-50 ppl have it

Thats ******ed. Ok whats worse. 1 gun in the world or 1,000,000?


Also the never touched the gadgets in japan now did they, now there all at 2 so dont bank on us going down the same line as them.

[Matt_Lane]

the fact still remains that CCV has been around massed in the OCG and it didn't hurt bad enough to be banned. it will not get banned when massed

[TwilightDu0]

the fact still remains that CCV has been around massed in the OCG and it didn't hurt bad enough to be banned. it will not get banned when massed

did you even read my last post?

Gadgets= limited, CCV>Gadgets, CCv = banned.

The only reason it isnt banned now is because its only owned by 50 people. Also, if ring of destruction is banned, and smashing ground anf fisure is down to one, its not far fetched to think a CCV will be banned.

you must atleast agree with this in theory.

[Matt_Lane]

so you're saying that just because gadgets are limited to 2 ccv should be banned? just because smashing and fissure are at 1 that ccv should be banned? all of these cards are VERY different

Gadgets are always a +1 (or 1-4-1 when pulling, ect)
Smashing and Fissure are always 1-4-1 (on few exceptions such as scapegoat in responce, ect.)

CCV = -2 unless you hit something, then you HAVE TO HIT 2 cards just to even it out

then there's always the fact that there is only 1 CCV per deck so it's really low chance of drawing it anyway

royal decree can also stop CCV easily along w/ the fact we have 2 Jinzo's

do i think CCV is going to be Banned when they mass release it? no

do you agree with my theory adleast alittle now?

[Vash the Duelist]

If CCV were released to the masses I would not expect it to be banned, but I would expect a predictable meta and inflated prices on certain cards because of what kind of popular decks can use CCV.

Zombies have:

Sangan
Spirit Reaper
Plague Wolf (someone might use it)

These are really the only two cards that a zombie deck can use in conjunction with CCV. The combo has a very good chance of going off because the deck usually has 3 Book of Life, Premature, and Call. DDV is very much usable in the same deck because of Il Blud, V-Lord, and Ryu Kokki.

Perfect Circle has:
Malicious
Sangan
Disk Commander
Spirit Reaper
Fear Monger

An ideal deck for CCV.

Apprentice Monarch has:
Sangan
Apprentice Magician
Spirit Reaper
Old Vindictive Magician

Good here too.

These decks are already good enough without CCV in them. Do you really want to mass release CCV and make these decks even more powerful?

[Matt_Lane]

well there's already CCV out to make those decks more powerful which is why ppl want them available everywhere so only 40-50 ppl don't have such a big advantage

[bad_fr20]

CCV isn't on the same line of brokeness of ring of D and Snatch Steal. its not going to be a sure fire discard all the time. heck, look at the last tournament reports in the japanese thread. everyone should have access to crush card virus. hell, if it gets banned, then it gets banned. its not like all power cards don't get touched, look at mirror force and ring of destruction. the probable reason why it'll be banned is because for 3 turns, you'll know what the opponent has. it also can be a dead draw at times(unless you have a searcher to make it easier to activate).

[Matt_Lane]

that's what i'm trying to say, it won't get banned do to it's kinda unstable unless your opponent is running a heavy monarch deck or zombies

[KING GEAR]

See above, and quit ygo scrub.
I'm WORLDS ahead of you.


But that has no relevance. Where did I not use logic?

[Velvet Jones]

CCV isn't on the same line of brokeness of ring of D and Snatch Steal. its not going to be a sure fire discard all the time. heck, look at the last tournament reports in the japanese thread. everyone should have access to crush card virus. hell, if it gets banned, then it gets banned. its not like all power cards don't get touched, look at mirror force and ring of destruction. the probable reason why it'll be banned is because for 3 turns, you'll know what the opponent has. it also can be a dead draw at times(unless you have a searcher to make it easier to activate).


Not the issue. They are overpowered and too rare.

[mrpwnage]

so you're saying that just because gadgets are limited to 2 ccv should be banned? just because smashing and fissure are at 1 that ccv should be banned? all of these cards are VERY different

Gadgets are always a +1 (or 1-4-1 when pulling, ect)
Smashing and Fissure are always 1-4-1 (on few exceptions such as scapegoat in responce, ect.)

CCV = -2 unless you hit something, then you HAVE TO HIT 2 cards just to even it out

then there's always the fact that there is only 1 CCV per deck so it's really low chance of drawing it anyway

royal decree can also stop CCV easily along w/ the fact we have 2 Jinzo's

do i think CCV is going to be Banned when they mass release it? no

do you agree with my theory adleast alittle now?

you usually chain crush to something like smashing ground,NoC,or MST so you only need to hit one card to even it out

[Matt_Lane]

you usually chain crush to something like smashing ground,NoC,or MST so you only need to hit one card to even it outyou get the point

[Blast Hornet]

No Im sorry, this isnt the solution, bc if this happens, where it is a SUPER from a SE like Shrink, then it will be in EVERY deck or side, thats a fact. Every person will either play it or play against it every game of every match of every tourny, be it local, reg or SJC.
Instead of complaining about How its unfair, work together on a way to combat the CCV and Sarc. Actually, if we all were to combine our efforts and use some logical thought, we would all realize there are ways around these cards, they are just like stein and there were ways around Stein. Come on POJO, lets drop this argument and just accept that Yes, evwentually the CCv and the Sarc will be released, but until then lets fight against them, drop the "unfair advantage" ****. Even if it is true, its like that bc of a time and effort investment difference. Any1 of us can win an SJC with effort,time and of course the right combo of cards.
RH22

Your argument is terrible. Releasing Crush like that would put it in every deck and guess what? We would all be on a level playing field again. It's not the most broken card ever, and it's certainly not on Stein's level, but it's a bigtime power card and for it to only be in the possession of incredibly good players gives the rest of us without them less chance to acquire them. Do you get it now?

Ummm...then why don't you just try to get better? It's not like good players were born good. They learned how to be as good as they are through work and practice. It just sounds to me like you're saying you're too lazy to work to get better, but you want the same rewards as the person who does, which makes no sense.

Way to cut my quote in half. I, for one, am not lazy. I was just using that to refer to my David vs. Goliath comment, which you so convienently left out. He's better than me, and I ain't afraid to admit that. Am I trying to get better, oh hell yeah, but does that mean he's not getting better too? No, I'd bet he's doing the same. But for him, as good as he is already, to have a CCV in his arsenal makes him nearly unstoppable. All me (and Velvet) are asking for is for the playing field to be evened out by giving the rest of us CCV. I'm not asking to be given an SJC CCV. Just a CCV in general.

[Velvet Jones]

Necroface on the horizon and a duelist packing GS just gets better. L&DD dragon runs few traps, but CCV is integral to the strategy.

[Shadow01192]

CCV is harsh ill give it that but much like every other card it has a weakness. I play about 1 hour every day Give or take some days alot more some days not at all but nonetheless even it out its about an hour a day. Im not a bad duelist and trust me no one who duels me will say i am. But i have a quirk. I only run fire monsters. Ill be damned if i dont have fun but i dont win as many games as i probably could because ive learned to get around certain plays.

[zomgwtfbbq]

CCV will not get banned here in the states, there is no proff that it will even get re-printed cuz if it does a lot of ppl will jsut end up quitting this game b.c everyone will have the same deck and we all know UDE like variety....so there is no point to re-printing it.. now when L&D comes out any one who has a ccv and a sarco obv has a HUGE advantage on the rest of the meta for obv reasons.....so there is no prob to re-print either card....I think SJC cards so never be re-pritned if ppl want to pay in excess of 2k for cardboard thats their problem...now I own a ccv and when it goes off I am getting a +of 5-6 every time.........so ppl who say its bad shud re-think this.....

[ATX(bRoKeN)]

i feel ur pain Velvet...

thats why i play on yvd and boycot UDE until they mass produce both CCV and Gold Sarcophagus. thats why u dont see us at any events lately =[

btw, hit me up on AIM

[RjAkaPeanut4U]

Thats ******ed. Ok whats worse. 1 gun in the world or 1,000,000?


Also the never touched the gadgets in japan now did they, now there all at 2 so dont bank on us going down the same line as them.

I don't understand how you don't understand that logic.

If CCV was released for everyone, you would prepare for it ahead of time when building decks. The way it is right now, if you have a great deck that is vulnerable to CCV, you'll probably run it anyway because...honestly, odds are good you won't face a CCV.

When you do though, it's broken. That's why. You can't prepare for something like that.

[zomgwtfbbq]

so you guys are boycotting events where there are only 40ish CCV's and 16 gold sarcos and yet everyone else in the dueling world can't play either so there MAY B 1 CCV at your regional....you shoula come to my regionals where there is 3 Sarcos and 5 ccv's running around then you can complain

[Cyan]

I would never keep a CCV. Honest-to-god. The card's a dead-draw half the time you draw it. And if you do get it off... big whoop. Wow, you might hit a Monarch.

[RedLight]

Wow, the GS and CCV problem is not that big of a deal. When I faced a OCG deck with Des Calibre Knight, Gorz, and Raiou in the deck I didn't have too much trouble beating the deck I just thought a couple of turns ahead and I knew what to do. He also ran GS and CCV in the deck and it still lost to my TCG Zombie deck.

[zomgwtfbbq]

I would never keep a CCV. Honest-to-god. The card's a dead-draw half the time you draw it. And if you do get it off... big whoop. Wow, you might hit a Monarch.
lol you 9 times out of 10 hit more than a monarch stratos breaker snipe plus all the monarchs..........plus more its a game breaking card you get to see whats in their hand plus what they draw...are you kidding me its ridiculously broken...

[Inu665]

Anyone who thinks CCV isn't broken should proxy one and try it out for a day.

[Ridders]

Anyone who thinks CCV isn't broken should proxy one and try it out for a day.

That means nothing.

None of the people you play would expect it, due to the fact that is IS NOT widely available, and because of this, preparing for CCV is totally useless.

If it was mass-released, people will know its around and will be smart enough to build decks that won't suddenly die to it. Cause they won't be stupid.

What is stupid is making the argument that using a CCV for a day on people who won't know your using it, is enough of a good argument to warrant a ban for it.

[RjAkaPeanut4U]

Nicker Ridders that's pretty much what I tried to say.

All in all, either ban CCV or mass release it imo =/.

[FlareWingman]

Well if the mas produce ccv and gold sarcophagus, they will have to limit them to one. Who knows what they could come out as...(promos, supers/ultras/secrets in a set...etc)

To me, its stupid to pay $2500+ for just one card...even if it is never mass produced. Those who have won the champs, I give my congrats to for winning and claiming the card...If they use it to claim more champs, that is their decision (unfortunately) but their has to be a way to control those decks(ccv-jinzo, trap negaters/gold s.-spell jammers). The reason why I think that UDE had brought jinzo to 2 was to sort of control ccv...but jinzo is pretty much useless when it can easily be destroyed by card effects...

Who knows the solution to the problem...I can say I do not...:p

[Velvet Jones]

so you guys are boycotting events where there are only 40ish CCV's and 16 gold sarcos and yet everyone else in the dueling world can't play either so there MAY B 1 CCV at your regional....you shoula come to my regionals where there is 3 Sarcos and 5 ccv's running around then you can complain


There are 4 real CCV's at my LOCAL. By the way, I win consistently against the CCV powered decks. That is not the point.

[Sasuke Uchiha]

That idea is ridiculously stupid, as it would make winning a Shonen only worth around $800.

And how is that a bad thing?

It's a good idea. Why sell a trophy for cash and have people who haven't won it gain from it.

Go home. :cool:

Necroface on the horizon and a duelist packing GS just gets better. L&DD dragon runs few traps, but CCV is integral to the strategy.


Wurd. Can't imagine what the first Jump will look like. :/

[Velvet Jones]

Well if the mas produce ccv and gold sarcophagus, they will have to limit them to one. Who knows what they could come out as...(promos, supers/ultras/secrets in a set...etc)

To me, its stupid to pay $2500+ for just one card...even if it is never mass produced. Those who have won the champs, I give my congrats to for winning and claiming the card...If they use it to claim more champs, that is their decision (unfortunately) but their has to be a way to control those decks(ccv-jinzo, trap negaters/gold s.-spell jammers). The reason why I think that UDE had brought jinzo to 2 was to sort of control ccv...but jinzo is pretty much useless when it can easily be destroyed by card effects...

Who knows the solution to the problem...I can say I do not...:p

There are limited to 1.

[Izzie]

ALL THE PEOPLE THAT DONT WANT CCV REPRINTED

1 PLAY MONARCHS
2 OWN ONE

and need to shut up cause it just unfair that a card is only good to lucksacks and rich players

And for the record i wn CCV And GS and i want them reprinted

And Vampire Lord did u stop to think that maybe people wanna play good decks not stupid burn or crappy Gadget Decks

[dabeast]

hey yo izzie gadgets aren't crappy. and yes those 2 cards need 2 be reprinted

[Izzie]

hey yo izzie gadgets aren't crappy. and yes those 2 cards need 2 be reprinted

jon gave up on them after saturday they suck

[TwilightDu0]

*Shoot's topic starter*
We dont need to keep talking about this, ***** ***** ***** thats all most of you ever do. The simple and only answer's are these:

1) Win these cards.

2) Buy these cards.

3) Trade for these cards.

4) Stop moaning about them and wait patiently for them to come out like shrink did.


Im going to go with number 4 as i dont think im good enough to win one, dont know anyone who has one and dont want to part with the money. What are you going to do? As these are the ONLY options.

[FlareWingman]

^speaks the truth^

[Personofsecrets]

*Shoot's topic starter*
We dont need to keep talking about this, ***** ***** ***** thats all most of you ever do. The simple and only answer's are these:

1) Win these cards.

2) Buy these cards.

3) Trade for these cards.

4) Stop moaning about them and wait patiently for them to come out like shrink did.


Im going to go with number 4 as i dont think im good enough to win one, dont know anyone who has one and dont want to part with the money. What are you going to do? As these are the ONLY options.

The meta has been distorted by by these cards enough. Release or ban them and hope that they don't have a huge impact on the game forever.

[Duel-God]

The thing is yea they're a problem now but when they do get mass produced then another card will take their place.

[BadLuck]

Now with necrofear comming into the picture = players will suffer alot against people who owns a gold

ex: Player A I activate Gold S. search for necrofear


necrofear effects activate remove 5 cards

o noes an other necrofear remove from game another 5 cards remove.

woot an other necrofear remove from play another 5 cards.

Later on I summon Necrofear, heavy storm activate megamorph 4 da win

[Rarehunter22]

Does N e one realized what this will turn into

Chaos Era Repeat

wont be mass relesed like shrink, I.e they are broken

End thread

[zomgwtfbbq]

CCV winz games nuff said now with gold s its ******ed.....

[scoop scoop]

Part 2

Disclaimer: If I choose to I could buy a $2500 Crush Card today.

First of let me start by saying that I by saying that I am fully aware that life is not fair or equal. There will always be those that have and those that have not. That is not the fundamental problem with the latest wave of SJC Prize cards. The problem is access and potency. Previous prizes cards may have been prized for the status and value to collectors, but these cards are very different. In short, they win games. Therein lies the problem. Anyone that has had to duel an opponent with a Crush powered deck knows this all to well. With so much power in the hands of so few how do the powers that be expect to have anything that resembles a level playing field? In SJC Indy 2 of the Top 16 packed Crush Card. That number jumped to 5/16 in SJC DC and you can expect that ratio to increase as the meta develops. The cards belong to a few random people, but for the most part are held en masse by a few teams throughout the USA. Does this seem like a problem to anyone other than myself? The natural conclusion is that if you hope to be able compete at the current SJC level you will need access to Crush Card. That is an unlikely occurrence due to the fact that those who own them will rightfully use them at premiere events in order to win more highly sought after cards. Solution? Release Crush Card in a similar fashion as Shrink! was released. This would good for the game on several levels. The most important being the ability to level the playing field from a certain 40 or so and extend it to the masses.


There are varying view on the overall power and brokeness of a particular. This is not the issue. The issue is too much power for too few people.

Discuss.




I consistently against 4 CCV powered duelists on a weekly basis. And they are all great duelist to boot. Fili Luna, Jason Holloway, Jake McNeely, and Chris Bowling (Team Outphase)are names that you should know by now. I play against them in test play as well as locals and regionals. I don't lose everytime I get CC, but it definitely changes the overall game. Ironically I have a winning record vs. CCV, but that is not the issue. In addition, I can buy one if I wished and I know all to well how to play around it. That is not the point. The point is that CCV is too much power to be had in the hands of so few.

y dont u just win a shonen jump?

[Velvet Jones]

y dont u just win a shonen jump?


Paul,

Does that solve the problem or address the issue for the metagame as a whole? Or are you being a smart a.s? :rolleyes: If so, please note that I have enough cash and credit to purchase whatever I choose. But, again my financial status, credit rating, or ability to win an SJC is not the issue.

[dr strange]

I agree CCV and Sarcophagus are ridiculously powerful. However, I don't think their current availability status has hurt the game. The current structure doesn't seem to have had a major negative impact on SJC attendance.

Meanwhile, falling attendance at locals and regionals would more likely be attributed to things like:

-- yugioh's not on mainstream TV daily right now, nor is it new, nor are the video games widely popular

-- even entry-level tournaments like locals are filled with high-end cards, which will tend to discourage the majority of what new blood comes in

-- from what i've seen (which i'll admit is far from universal), there is often a fairly hostile atmosphere for newer players, where established players look to rip off newbies and younger players are viewed as a mix of annoyance and easy mark

-- the core mechanics of top-tier decks have been boringly predictable for a long-time now: monarchs and the flavor du jour of special summon abuse. Burn provides a change of pace but most players say they hate it, so I'm not sure that's progress.

I know people like Julia are working to invigorate the demo team and address some of these issues. And all in all, I think they are right to do so -- there are more important things to work on than CCV's availability.

However, I think Stein's mid-format banning shows that if the CCV/Sarco availability *really* starts turning people off of SJC's (or organized play, more boradly), UDE could be expected to step in.

[FuzzyFlamingo]

I agree and I have CCV.

[scoop scoop]

Paul,

Does that solve the problem or address the issue for the metagame as a whole? Or are you being a smart a.s? :rolleyes: If so, please note that I have enough cash and credit to purchase whatever I choose. But, again my financial status, credit rating, or ability to win an SJC is not the issue.

golden sarc is far from broken. i have one, and i choose not to play it in most decks. crush is broken, but really, in a given sjc or regional, what is the chance of playing more than 1-2 people with crush? also, its limited to 1, so even people playing crush (and im speaking from experience, as i have played it in about 5 sjcs) wont draw it that often. it is gamebreaking, but not so much that it is unhealthy for the game.

[Velvet Jones]

golden sarc is far from broken. i have one, and i choose not to play it in most decks. crush is broken, but really, in a given sjc or regional, what is the chance of playing more than 1-2 people with crush? also, its limited to 1, so even people playing crush (and im speaking from experience, as i have played it in about 5 sjcs) wont draw it that often. it is gamebreaking, but not so much that it is unhealthy for the game.


Valid point. The overall meta of TCG is for the most part unaffected by CCV or GS. Not much to say to refute that particular point.

However, it does distort major competitions and in local metas where CCV's are present they do oftentimes determine game outcomes. First turn CCV and a set Sangan is lethal.

[CapitalG]

I got hit with it twice at durham (my Big City) and still won the duel , I suggest running decks with either counter traps or with barely any 1500 monsters such as burn or gadgets

[scoop scoop]

I got hit with it twice at durham (my Big City) and still won the duel , I suggest running decks with either counter traps or with barely any 1500 monsters such as burn or gadgets

thats completley pointless. your gonna build a deck trying to play around ccv, when im sure a good majority of yugioh players have never even seen a crush in person.

[D.D. Shinobi]

Stop ur *******g. Everybody who has a CCV earned it!
If you had one you wouldnt be whining so shut up about it.
They are SJC cards for a reason, if they were mass released, would you still go to SJC?
I think not.

[flopolopagus bunny]

we all know it's the have and have not in the world anyway.

i got to watch my brother playing at jump against someone playing crush card. He got smashed 1st game and next game he tried to ccv him he
my body as a sheild against crush card and won.

[Velvet Jones]

Stop ur *******g. Everybody who has a CCV earned it!
If you had one you wouldnt be whining so shut up about it.
They are SJC cards for a reason, if they were mass released, would you still go to SJC?
I think not.


Normally I don't respond to posts like these, but you are rather clueless concerning the topic's purpose.


And running a deck that is not vunerable to CCV is rather impractical from a competitive point of view.

Additional Comment:

I agree CCV and Sarcophagus are ridiculously powerful. However, I don't think their current availability status has hurt the game. The current structure doesn't seem to have had a major negative impact on SJC attendance.

Meanwhile, falling attendance at locals and regionals would more likely be attributed to things like:

-- yugioh's not on mainstream TV daily right now, nor is it new, nor are the video games widely popular

-- even entry-level tournaments like locals are filled with high-end cards, which will tend to discourage the majority of what new blood comes in

-- from what i've seen (which i'll admit is far from universal), there is often a fairly hostile atmosphere for newer players, where established players look to rip off newbies and younger players are viewed as a mix of annoyance and easy mark

-- the core mechanics of top-tier decks have been boringly predictable for a long-time now: monarchs and the flavor du jour of special summon abuse. Burn provides a change of pace but most players say they hate it, so I'm not sure that's progress.

I know people like Julia are working to invigorate the demo team and address some of these issues. And all in all, I think they are right to do so -- there are more important things to work on than CCV's availability.

However, I think Stein's mid-format banning shows that if the CCV/Sarco availability *really* starts turning people off of SJC's (or organized play, more boradly), UDE could be expected to step in.


Very good point. There are more pressing matters to address. CCV is a biznatch to deal with once you get crushed, but all is not always lost. GS has broken potential, but has yet to be fully unleashed (shifty eyes looking at Baby Death Face). Let's just hope that Gorz isn't next or it will get real ugly on the pro circuit.

And to all of those "stop whining" posters your point has been noted. It is not neccessary to continue to post this point.

[StriderBlack01]

Wow.

I'm sorry Velvet Jones. It seems like you earnestly wanted a serious discussion, but for the most part, all you've gotten is people who don't know how to read.

"Stop your whining! They earned it!" LOL.


----

Anyways, on topic, it seems like the answer to this question is relatively easy, it's just unpopular.

It is unfair. Period.

Whenever a group has an advantage over another, the situation is no longer equal. That's how unfair works. I'm sorry. How that advantage was earned is also irrelevant to this particular discussion.

Nobody is questioning the work or the skills of the players who rightfully won their prize cards.

The question is whether or not it is fair for these prize cards, powerful and game changing as they are, to exist as such.

Now, is it unfair to the point where it's gonna break this game apart?
No, not really.

Is it unfair to the point where a good player won't be able to win because of it?
Nope.

So what we have is a situation that is unequal, but very liveable.

[dan_the_man]

Wow.

I'm sorry Velvet Jones. It seems like you earnestly wanted a serious discussion, but for the most part, all you've gotten is people who don't know how to read.

"Stop your whining! They earned it!" LOL.

Anyways, on topic, it seems like the answer to this question relatively easy, its just that it's unpopular.

It is unfair. Period.

Whenever a group has an advantage over another, the situation is no longer equal. That's how unfair works. I'm sorry.

How that advantage was earned is irrelevant to this particular discussion. Nobody is questioning the work or the skills of the players who won their prize cards.

The question is whether or not it is fair for these prize cards, as powerful and game changing as they are, to exist as such.

Now, is it unfair to the point where it's gonna break this game apart?
No, not really. Not even close.

Is it unfair to the point where a good player won't be able win because of it?
Nope.

So what we have is a situation that is unequal, but liveable.

I agree completely. Still though, the situation is unfair and should be fixed.

[Xing*]

If CCV were to be mass released, it would not be overpowered since people will be prepared for it. However, since only about 50 exists, the 50 people have this will be at a HUGE advantage (being a very skilled player itself is its own reward, they do not need to have more power than they already have) since it kills 40-50% of the meta's monsters, and these monsters are the ones that usually helps you to win. It's unfair especially for those who has to deal with these cards on a weekly basis.

[Orconem]

I personally don't see why players who win larger scale tournaments deserve to have these overpowered cards that give them an obvious advantage over those who don't. Allowing a Shonen Jump Champion to use a CCV or a GC is like allowing a World Champion Boxer to use Brass Knuckles for the rest of his matches.

If these high class players are really that strong then they should have to earn their future titles without an edge over others.

[coyote wingsmen]

i know what yall mean some cards are to exspenvive , where im from grandmaster is one of the most hardest cards to get and the only one who has him wont trade them cause he doesnt what others to have.so crush card is so far out of my reach that i would die before i got one

[Izzie]

I got hit with it twice at durham (my Big City) and still won the duel , I suggest running decks with either counter traps or with barely any 1500 monsters such as burn or gadgets

like i said before alot of people dont want to run crappy decks like gadgets and burn just to get around one card

thats completley pointless. your gonna build a deck trying to play around ccv, when im sure a good majority of yugioh players have never even seen a crush in person.

QFE I agree with u on this note

Stop ur *******g. Everybody who has a CCV earned it!
If you had one you wouldnt be whining so shut up about it.
They are SJC cards for a reason, if they were mass released, would you still go to SJC?
I think not.

u sir are an idiot it unfair for good cards like crush to so rare it need to get reprinted so everyone can be on an equal playing feild

and i have one so dont think i just sayin this cause i want one for myself

[CapitalG]

I dont want a mass release CCV actually it would make almost every mirror match come down to who gets CCV first and it would seriously slow down our meta even more than LADD is about to do

Also If I get one I dont want to have to duel one every round.

Anyone who pays $2500 for A CCV is an idiot, I would spend $1300+cards on it if I had the money however


And if you are so scared of one card run counter traps I suggest Dark Bribe or Solemn

[Izzie]

I dont want a mass release CCV actually it would make almost every mirror match come down to who gets CCV first and it would seriously slow down our meta even more than LADD is about to do

Also If I get one I dont want to have to duel one every round.

Anyone who pays $2500 for A CCV is an idiot, I would spend $1300+cards on it if I had the money however


And if you are so scared of one card run counter traps I suggest Dark Bribe or Solemn

yes but u are siding for one card that at the moment there is only 41 of at the moment and that is a very bad idea

if it get mass produced then it makes the game fair for everyone if it doesnt it only make the game fair for

Lucksacks
Pros
Rich People

[Sword_Stalker]

I personally don't see why players who win larger scale tournaments deserve to have these overpowered cards that give them an obvious advantage over those who don't. Allowing a Shonen Jump Champion to use a CCV or a GC is like allowing a World Champion Boxer to use Brass Knuckles for the rest of his matches.

If these high class players are really that strong then they should have to earn their future titles without an edge over others.

the problem is that they deserve something for their victory, the easiest solution is to give them a card and a holo of a card already mass-produced may be unwanted and kind of unsatisfactory. there cannot be monetary prizes and some of the ude people even stated that electronic prizes don't seem that great. that being stated, what can they give?

if however, crush card or GS gets released, people can adapt against them, well crush card anyways. with crush card they can put in vampire lord or make a deck with few targets or are too quick for such tactics. a deck devastation deck might even counteract crush card decks since there are 3 ddv and 3eev that can be in one's deck, while there can only be 1 crush card in the other deck

[KING GEAR]

I dont want a mass release CCV actually it would make almost every mirror match come down to who gets CCV first and it would seriously slow down our meta even more than LADD is about to do

Also If I get one I dont want to have to duel one every round.

Anyone who pays $2500 for A CCV is an idiot, I would spend $1300+cards on it if I had the money however


And if you are so scared of one card run counter traps I suggest Dark Bribe or Solemn
Point #1 : Getting CCV off =/= winning, at all. It means, on average, +1 or +2. However, any good player would change their deck up to adjust.

Point #2 : While CCV is ban-worthy, if it isn't going to be banned or mass-released, playing one raises your chances significantly. Mass-releasing is the only answer.

Point #3 : The last part of your post can be translated to "I'm a bad Yu-Gi-Oh! player".

[Orconem]

the problem is that they deserve something for their victory, the easiest solution is to give them a card and a holo of a card already mass-produced may be unwanted and kind of unsatisfactory. there cannot be monetary prizes and some of the ude people even stated that electronic prizes don't seem that great. that being stated, what can they give?

The only thing I can think of when it comes to prize payouts is to either start giving cash payouts or to make the foil cards nothing overly broken, like when the prize card was Des Voltsgalph.

[Ozz465]

Unfortunately they will never give cash as prizes . but maybe in place of cards game systems, tvs ect

[iProxy]

I think I'd rather have sarc than CCV

[greatthissucks]

There is no problem with CCV and GOld Sarcoph. If your good enogh to play the game then you're good enough to get this card. It's just that some people are BETTER. I could get sacked by CCV and still win.

Machine beatdown/gadgets
elemental searcher with exiled force
The problem is all people have to run moarchs and that's why you get sacked. If I encountered this problem you know what I would do?


RUN SOMETHING ELSE. Or board out monarchs and Put my head between my knees and CRY.

[exodia_aa]

ok well if CCV was mass pruduced it be banned cause look it like this, only few people own 1 copy and its at 1 so if like a Yugioh players had one it'd be a mirror match of virus control and be banned and sarc should'nt be mass produced becuase its the Jump prize, limted to 1 and its not like a OTK potenial like Stein was(which got banned when massed prouduced)

[Velvet Jones]

ok well if CCV was mass pruduced it be banned cause look it like this, only few people own 1 copy and its at 1 so if like a Yugioh players had one it'd be a mirror match of virus control and be banned and sarc should'nt be mass produced becuase its the Jump prize, limted to 1 and its not like a OTK potenial like Stein was(which got banned when massed prouduced)


It has been mass produced and easily available in Japan for years. It has never hit the ban list. The game these days need CCV for the masses.

[exodia_aa]

mabe cause japan has more powerful cards then we do, but i don't CCV should be massed prouduced just cause we wanna get rid of like monarchs

[Legna the Angel]

mabe cause japan has more powerful cards then we do, but i don't CCV should be massed prouduced just cause we wanna get rid of like monarchs

CCV is a very old card in japan but even in early time it wasn't banned, also we are getting most of the OCG promo, it's not like it will have a much different impact like what it did in japan.

[Zoahinx]

I'm gonna have to say that the cards are fair, simply because the people earned them and went that extra mile by trading for them, winning them, or buying them.

But in the situation that the person just found a CCV, cause ya know how often that happens, then no, it wouldn't really be that fair.

BUT, who said Yugioh is fair? Very little is ever fair life. One person will always have some kind of advantage over someone else. It's like saying that one person has an unfair advantage over someone else because they have Mirror Force in their deck and their opponent doesn't. Of course they have an advantage! In any conflict in time, someone has some kind of advantage over someone else. It's just how conflicts, and yugioh duels, work. If you had your way and EVERYTHING about yugioh was fair, then the winner of a duel would always be decided by top-decking and whoever draws the better cards. So stop complaining about it and deal with it.

[Chrono1219]

I'm gonna have to say that the cards are fair, simply because the people earned them and went that extra mile by trading for them, winning them, or buying them.


You don't understand the argument do you...

1. Some person manages to win one.
2. This person lets a person on this team use it for the next championship
3. Person who is using it has an automatic advantage over the rest of the field
4. This person (who never won one) wins one.
5. The cards continue to rotate throughout the team.
6. Eventually a good portion of the team has one.

Also don't compare them to any other card. Mirror force = 30-40 which most people can afford. You can't use basic advantage arguments either. CCV creates unfair advantages that you can't forsee coming.

Now that argument where you should "side out" your monarchs. You should never have to side out a theme for ONE card. If that was required CCV would be instantly banned. And how are you siding against it anyways? So few people run it that you can't actually plan to be hit by it.

[loyal2usa]

To stop CCV, just use 2 Jinzo's in your deck and three royal decrees in your deck. Heavy storm and MST are usually ineffective against it because people just chain it with CCV. It's not a continuous card.
Not much you can do to stop Gold Sarcophagus except use magic drain to make your opponent discard a magic card or just anticipate what card he/ she selects with it.

[ryu991]

three royal decrees in your deck. .


3 decree = hot tech

[Possum_the_Furry_Monarch]

To stop CCV, just use 2 Jinzo's in your deck and three royal decrees in your deck. Heavy storm and MST are usually ineffective against it because people just chain it with CCV. It's not a continuous card.
Not much you can do to stop Gold Sarcophagus except use magic drain to make your opponent discard a magic card or just anticipate what card he/ she selects with it.

Decree is at two.

[KING GEAR]

To stop CCV, just use 2 Jinzo's in your deck and three royal decrees in your deck. Heavy storm and MST are usually ineffective against it because people just chain it with CCV. It's not a continuous card.
Not much you can do to stop Gold Sarcophagus except use magic drain to make your opponent discard a magic card or just anticipate what card he/ she selects with it.
I can't believe I never thought of that. Thanks! ^_~

[Zoahinx]

You don't understand the argument do you...

1. Some person manages to win one.
2. This person lets a person on this team use it for the next championship
3. Person who is using it has an automatic advantage over the rest of the field
4. This person (who never won one) wins one.
5. The cards continue to rotate throughout the team.
6. Eventually a good portion of the team has one.

Also don't compare them to any other card. Mirror force = 30-40 which most people can afford. You can't use basic advantage arguments either. CCV creates unfair advantages that you can't forsee coming.

Now that argument where you should "side out" your monarchs. You should never have to side out a theme for ONE card. If that was required CCV would be instantly banned. And how are you siding against it anyways? So few people run it that you can't actually plan to be hit by it.

Oh ok. I see what you're saying. I saw the title of the thread and assumed it was another "CCV is so unfair" thread. That'll teach me to not read the first post.

But I understand the issue more now. I have faced one duelist from a dying team that had borrowed CCV from the team leader at a regional. He used CCV twice and, ironically, it didn't really do much either game. I was using a random monarch deck as well. In fact, I would have won the match if I hadn't misplayed by forgetting my frog in the graveyard. But I get the point now.

Mass releasing or banning CCV in the TCG seems like it would fix the problem, though I really wouldn't want everyone at a regional playing it. Then they should just stick to valuable SJC cards and stay away from highly playable ones.

[TwilightDu0]

The meta has been distorted by by these cards enough. Release or ban them and hope that they don't have a huge impact on the game forever.

True, i did neglect to add that 5th option so ill have a redo.


*Still shoot's topic starter*

Blah blah blah, most of you moan to much.The simple and only answer's are these:

1) Win these cards.

2) Buy these cards.

3) Trade for these cards.

4) Stop moaning about them and wait patiently for them to come out like shrink did.

5) Wait very, very patiently, and prey for them to hit the ban list.

Im still going to go with number 4 , as i don't think im good enough to win one, don't know anyone who has one, don't want to part with the money and i don't think they'll ban them as such a limited number of people have them. What are you going to do?

These are the ONLY real options.

[LS1Killa]

I won a ccv I wouldn't want it to be realesded I worked hard for it.

[Mister Sinister]

Finally someone who shares the same view as me.
a player who goes through a 9-10 round tournament, then has to play 3-4 more people who are considered at the moment to have performed as the best in the tournament just to have a chance at it deserves to be the owners of the card.
Damn right.

Also someone who can afford to spend $2,500 on this card should rightfully be able to do so. It may seem unfair, but did you work hard to get it, or be able to afford it? I'd think if someone works hard to achieve something they deserve to be able to have the advantage over someone who didn't work as hard. Yeah, it's yugioh, so often times it's also luck involved, or perhaps they cheated to get there, but in those cases life isn't fair to begin with.

I agree with you 100%

Make an initial investment on expensive cards so you can be competitive and get 4 digit value cards? You probably haven't done anything and just need to complain about what you can't have. It's nobodies fault but your own at that point.

I would assume you're agree on this point that Yu-gi-oh, much like all over CCG, is a collectible card game. Essentially a never ending arms race. That much you'd at least have to agree on right? If you work hard to get a card or have the means to buy it - then YES you should be able to like SOD said. I'm going to have to agree with many others on this board in thinking you're borderline on whining. Sorry.

1) if you can afford to buy it, as you stated, then do so. But you made the decision that you can not justify buying a card for that much right? Done.

2) yeah it's frustrating losing over and over to this deck type- but should adapt and change you deck to counter it. As you stated as well, CCV has been mass released in Japan - and it hasn't had the effect that it's having over here on a limited scale. I think you fall short of what's going on in terms of seeing that as an end solution. Mass releasing the card is not the solution since another card will come along and be the new CCV. It will never end. Those decks that run CCV in turn will also have to eventually evolve to suit the changing yu-gi-oh environment when new cards surface. They can't turtle forever.

Seems simple enough to me. Sorry but ...get over it.

On a semi related note. I recently pulled an Il Blud. There is no doubt that I feel it's over priced (current market). BUT the satisfaction I get from knowing that it's sought after and very hard to find is an extra bonus for me..and I feel super super lucky to get my hands on one. There is a prestige in acquiring a card that is unavailable to the masses. IMO.

[exodia_aa]

True, i did neglect to add that 5th option so ill have a redo.


*Still shoot's topic starter*

Blah blah blah, most of you moan to much.The simple and only answer's are these:

1) Win these cards.

2) Buy these cards.

3) Trade for these cards.

4) Stop moaning about them and wait patiently for them to come out like shrink did.

5) Wait very, very patiently, and prey for them to hit the ban list.

Im still going to go with number 4 , as i don't think im good enough to win one, don't know anyone who has one, don't want to part with the money and i don't think they'll ban them as such a limited number of people have them. What are you going to do?

These are the ONLY real options.

THANK you... CCV is stopable in so may ways as GS isn't that BROKEN but it is pretty close

[loyal2usa]

Crush and Golden are fun to play with in the video game; so if you want to have fun playing with them... get a yu-gi-oh video game and duel away all you want to. Unless you are a pro player and you are being paid to play by a sponsor it's all about pride, prestige and getting more cards as prizes at tournaments.

[StriderBlack01]

Hm. I'm gonna go ahead, fight my bad impulses, and go with my better nature when I write this. But note that it was especially difficult! I mean I had an illiteracy joke and everything!

<sigh>


I think some of you posted on the wrong thread. See, this thread, to my understanding, is about discussing the existance of powerful prize cards, specifically focusing on their exclusivity(?) and the complications this has on the game overall.


...not so much our whining that we can't get them, or that they're overpowered, or that, somehow, those who win them shouldn't feel 'special'.


Hope this helped.

[Sword_Stalker]

well i think the strongest reasons why i think the crush card and golden sarcophagus should be released worldwide would be.

not many people plan decks that can ward off decks with crush card because it is rare to play against a crush card, and therefore you will not be able to have as much advantage against a person as you would if you faced it everyday. a person attacked everyday has more chance than a person hit every other day.

it is more likely that they will be released anyways, sooner than later would be best. at least crush card.

although a person who won an sjc should get something awesome, he shouldn't have it exclusevly for years. how long should someone have a card that no one else can have?

against it:

you should have a prize that is worth it.

you toiled to get it and it just gets released for some reason is wrong

everyone will use it, and it will just be a cyber dragon type staple.

[Nuuuuf]

CCV should have been banned a long time ago in the OCG and should never have came here in the first place. It does absolutely nothing for the game but thin play down to who has better stacking skills. Anyone who disagrees needs to rethink their entire philosophies as to what's good/bad for the game. Actually, DDV should be gone too because it does the exact same frickin thing.

Gold Sarc, however, is completely frickin fine. I can understand why they made it an SJC Prize Card, it's a great card, people want it. What I don't understand, however, is why it was limited to 1. If anything, Gold Sarcophagus at 3 and Mass Printed would greatly enhance the quality of YGO. It allows you to search for any card in your deck, which greatly decreases the lucksack factor. The only, and I repeat, only time when Gold Sarcophagus is a problem is when it searches for easy-OTK cards, like Dimension Fusion, Norleras, etc. But Gold Sarc isn't the problem here: It's the cards that exist for no purpose but to make OTKs that are the problem, and will remain a problem until they are gone. In a world where OTKs don't exist (which the forbidden list makes very possible), Sarc at 3 is a godsend.

However, why they do Prize Cards at all is a mystery to me. Why not just have a huge cash prize? Is UDE really that cheap? :/

[exodia_aa]

However, why they do Prize Cards at all is a mystery to me. Why not just have a huge cash prize? Is UDE really that cheap? :/

uh no they just don't want yugioh to become a business to teenagers. they go to there friends"yo i just 2000$ in ygo" then they will have a bigger adaventge of buying the good cards so either way they get a adavantge

[Shadow of Death]

not many people plan decks that can ward off decks with crush card because it is rare to play against a crush card, and therefore you will not be able to have as much advantage against a person as you would if you faced it everyday. a person attacked everyday has more chance than a person hit every other day.

Crush Card isn't the same thing as a burn deck. You don't need to prepare against it, a solid deck run by a good player can play around a CCV (assuming they draw it in the first place). They have an advantage for having a game breaking card, but it's all fair given how hard it is to get one that any person who has a copy should very much be allowed to run it and have the advantage they deserve for their success in this game, or the effort put in to afford the card.

[blackluster777]

i think if u earned the card u should use it. i also think they should be released at some point. but if u earned it u should be able to use the "PRIZE" cards exclusively at least for a while.

[loyal2usa]

let's say your opponent used Heavy and MST early in the duel. Crush card does not stop special summons. When jinzo or a monarch are affected by the crush card just reborn it to the field with Call or Premature. Crush does not hurt exiled, treeborn frog, sangan, Don Z., apprentice and face down spell casters, marshmallon, and spirit reapers These are all good cards

[benthegreat]

the problem isn't so much that CCV is too good for only a few people to have or it not being reprinted - I'm actually very cool w/ the people who win sjc's earning very good and playable cards.

its just that CCV probably deserves banning regardless of its print status

[ih0tfirei]

Gold Sarc, however, is completely frickin fine. I can understand why they made it an SJC Prize Card, it's a great card, people want it. What I don't understand, however, is why it was limited to 1. If anything, Gold Sarcophagus at 3 and Mass Printed would greatly enhance the quality of YGO. It allows you to search for any card in your deck, which greatly decreases the lucksack factor. The only, and I repeat, only time when Gold Sarcophagus is a problem is when it searches for easy-OTK cards, like Dimension Fusion, Norleras, etc. But Gold Sarc isn't the problem here: It's the cards that exist for no purpose but to make OTKs that are the problem, and will remain a problem until they are gone. In a world where OTKs don't exist (which the forbidden list makes very possible), Sarc at 3 is a godsend.

:/

its restricted because of necroface otk

[Nuuuuf]

Another example of Konami limiting perfect cards to keep Problematic ones around: Necroface should have received the limitation, not Sarc.

Of course, magically bouncing Sarc to 3 in the current format wouldn't work. As I said in my last post, Sarc @ 3 is fine in a world without cheap OTK cards, those would all have to go first, and should still have to go whether Sarc was at 1, 3, or 0.

[Swmystery]

Crush Card isn't the same thing as a burn deck. You don't need to prepare against it, a solid deck run by a good player can play around a CCV (assuming they draw it in the first place). They have an advantage for having a game breaking card, but it's all fair given how hard it is to get one that any person who has a copy should very much be allowed to run it and have the advantage they deserve for their success in this game, or the effort put in to afford the card.

It is most certainly not fair. Anyone who has one of these cards is at an advantage over the masses of people who can't get one. As StriderBlack has already said, one group having an advantage over the rest is the definition of unfair. You don't deserve the kind of advantage CCV or GS gives you, regardless of what you've done (and it does give you an advantage, that much is obvious). Compare it to boxing: how unfair would it be if the World Champion was allowed to have barbed wire on his gloves for all his fights afterward? It's the same thing here.

[jaws_is_ra]

do what I am doing in Jan

Open a Xmas Account with your bank

Put so much money in it

Then in Nov take the money out (our bank send a check in nov) then in Jan of the following year oppen up a another one put the money from the last one in it and add to it over the year you should have the money to buy the counert SJCS card of that year when Nov comes around


I tought this tough big time it can solve a lot of problems with with people that do not own SJCs cards

Yes they will be reprinted but i like to have 1 not to use but to show off and to hang on my wall next to my 2004 invite to the world champ turny (guest invite)

[KING GEAR]

Crush Card isn't the same thing as a burn deck. You don't need to prepare against it, a solid deck run by a good player can play around a CCV (assuming they draw it in the first place). They have an advantage for having a game breaking card, but it's all fair given how hard it is to get one that any person who has a copy should very much be allowed to run it and have the advantage they deserve for their success in this game, or the effort put in to afford the card.
You're one of the dumbest people to ever type in decent grammar.

[Sword_Stalker]

its restricted because of necroface otk

no it isn't.

it is restricted because it is the ultimate tutor, and can get you the best card ever for that situation. if you can have game with ceasefire, you can get ceasefire, if you need protection, you can get gravity bind.

pretty much if they had 3 golden sarcophagus, they could run exodia and win sjc's

to king gear. it seems jaws is like what you stated, but with poor grammar

[exodia_aa]

true but who has a set of of the chest? i know the power of it when its needed but its not a OTK capable that i know of

[djgdjg]

I've seen relatively little mention in this thread of new players. It's one thing to make a case that players who won a CCV deserve an advatage over the players they defeated to do so. But I shall use my middle nephew, who might actually have sufficient talent to develop into a high-level player, but who will not really be up to attending large tournaments for another year or so, as an example.

Suppose my nephew turns out to be really good, only it happens that the powers that be, in trying to creating a cadre of superstars, have decided not to reprint any of the SJC prize cards from CCV and GS on. Eventually my nephew duels against and presumably loses to players who have at least one or two such cards decked, perhaps developing a trend of missing out on advancing to knockout play because of losing such matches. Naturally he will want a CCV of his own, and will be full of ideas about how to put it to best use, only to be told that there were only a small number of them ever made and there will never be any more. What can he do? Mow lawns every day for a year and a half and buy one? He'd probably give up the game sooner. He's been well brought up and wouldn't steal one even if he could. Trade for it? Trade what? Presumably he'd have to win a current SJC prize card to have something worth the trade, but given that he'll be up against players with CCV and GS and who knows what else, the odds will probably continue to get longer each time a new prize card turns out to be highly playable. If he were to get very lucky, he might manage to get the attention of someone on one of the major teams that owns multiples of SJC prize cards, and by being granted membership on the team be permitted to use prize cards that are pooled for the benefit of team members, but the competition for any vacancy on such a team must be stiff indeed.

(I dread to mention what might be a more likely course of action for my nephew in such a situation than anything I've mentioned already - go to a relative, such as an uncle, and beg said uncle to buy him a CCV at every conceivable opportunity.)

Assuming that maintaining a high level of appeal to new players is desirable even to those who have won SJC prize cards and may be quite pleased to begin matches with a significant advantage over their opponents (as if no new players ever take up the game, non-SJC-prize-holders will eventually all give up in discouragement until only those who own SJC prize cards are still playing, or very nearly), I don't see that telling new players that they have to take on the considerable handicap of going up against players with powerful cards that they never had the opportunity to acquire is going to go over terribly well. It would be almost like going up against Seto Kaiba knowing that he had all the Blue-Eyes White Dragons.

To try to drag this post at least marginally on topic, while I'm not sure about some of the points being debated, I can see the possibility of a snowball problem. Maybe lots of people can beat opponents with CCV often enough for high-level success. But the number of those who can succeed against opponents with both CCV and GS probably shrinks considerably. Then if the next SJC prize card should happen to work well with CCV, who's going to be able to beat someone with all three? How many prize cards will it take before the inequity becomes ridiculous? That reminds me - does anyone have an idea about what percentage of the copies of GS already won are in the hands of those who have access to CCV as well?

[G a R 0 n]

Just think of all the kids out there who can't play their Kaiba decks!

[mAsTer_PaiNe]

I personally don't see why players who win larger scale tournaments deserve to have these overpowered cards that give them an obvious advantage over those who don't. Allowing a Shonen Jump Champion to use a CCV or a GC is like allowing a World Champion Boxer to use Brass Knuckles for the rest of his matches.

If these high class players are really that strong then they should have to earn their future titles without an edge over others.

I agree with this statement.

Additional Comment:

BTW...i'm in the process of making a fake Crush Card Virus on my computer right now...so I can print it out and use it at home. This will do...until the promo is released.

[Velvet Jones]

Originally Posted by Aburame Shino http://www.pojo.biz/board/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?p=7568409#post7568409)
I personally don't see why players who win larger scale tournaments deserve to have these overpowered cards that give them an obvious advantage over those who don't. Allowing a Shonen Jump Champion to use a CCV or a GC is like allowing a World Champion Boxer to use Brass Knuckles for the rest of his matches.

If these high class players are really that strong then they should have to earn their future titles without an edge over others.

Normally I don't use sports analogies, but this one is dead on. Just because you are a champion does not mean you should granted competitive advantage. I can't think of a single sport in which the winner is awarded/granted a legal advantage over the rest of the field.

[exodia_aa]

I personally don't see why players who win larger scale tournaments deserve to have these overpowered cards that give them an obvious advantage over those who don't. Allowing a Shonen Jump Champion to use a CCV or a GC is like allowing a World Champion Boxer to use Brass Knuckles for the rest of his matches.

If these high class players are really that strong then they should have to earn their future titles without an edge over others.


yeah but think bout it. CCV ain't brass knuckles. there golden gloves no one has them and yes they do give the user advantge but because its at 1 they get a little adavantge(sucker punch) and if your a good player you could get back on your feet and win the match but the golden chest is sorta like brass knuckles but still if your smart and quick you can eazily sur pas its adavantge. chest should be reprinted LATER in the game, not now cause then they'll make a even more broken card to take its place but later like a year or 2 but CCV shouldn't cause once it does it willbe banned cause of virus control broken deck(especially with nercroface now on the streets)

[Azn_Boy]

yeah but think bout it. CCV ain't brass knuckles. there golden gloves no one has them and yes they do give the user advantge but because its at 1 they get a little adavantge(sucker punch) and if your a good player you could get back on your feet and win the match but the golden chest is sorta like brass knuckles but still if your smart and quick you can eazily sur pas its adavantge. chest should be reprinted LATER in the game, not now cause then they'll make a even more broken card to take its place but later like a year or 2 but CCV shouldn't cause once it does it willbe banned cause of virus control broken deck(especially with nercroface now on the streets)

That made no sense at all :\

If you were a good player playing against another good player who has a copy of CCV in his/her deck, wouldn't you just be outplayed after he CCVs you? From your logic, a good player can outplay a bad player, a better player (One with CCV) can outplay a good player.

[exodia_aa]

That made no sense at all :\

If you were a good player playing against another good player who has a copy of CCV in his/her deck, wouldn't you just be outplayed after he CCVs you? From your logic, a good player can outplay a bad player, a better player (One with CCV) can outplay a good player.


sry it was confusin. but if you were smart you could beat them

[Azn_Boy]

sry it was confusin. but if you were smart you could beat them

What happens if they're smarter? lol

[Chrono1219]

sry it was confusin. but if you were smart you could beat them

this logic fails since we must assume all top tier duelists have around equal understanding and tactical development or whatever of the game.

[KogyochiBJ]

I think UDE works with ebay and makes mass profit from ccv, GS, and every new secret rare they make.

*******s?

[exodia_aa]

What happens if they're smarter? lol

well then you screwed :rolleyes:

[Velvet Jones]

There is another thread going in the veterans forum concerning this very topic. It has become a larger issue.

[luckyspell]

yeah but think bout it. CCV ain't brass knuckles. there golden gloves no one has them and yes they do give the user advantge but because its at 1 they get a little adavantge(sucker punch) and if your a good player you could get back on your feet and win the match but the golden chest is sorta like brass knuckles but still if your smart and quick you can eazily sur pas its adavantge. chest should be reprinted LATER in the game, not now cause then they'll make a even more broken card to take its place but later like a year or 2 but CCV shouldn't cause once it does it willbe banned cause of virus control broken deck(especially with nercroface now on the streets)

I seriously freakin' LOLed.

Great post, even though I totally disagree with it; it has amazing comedic value. Your analogies and grammar was priceless.

[greatshogundevin]

There is another thread going in the veterans forum concerning this very topic. It has become a larger issue.

considering what happened at SJC Orlando I am not surprised.

[Stupid_Alien]

considering what happened at SJC Orlando I am not surprised.

i sold all my cards at the convention due to this very problem.

i had also planned on going to SJ in dallas, but i don't think i can stand a achance because i don't have crush and GS

[SilentMagician7]

considering what happened at SJC Orlando I am not surprised.

OMG Cedric had such a god hand. Everyone wanted Hector to win it. Oh well he still owns.

[greatshogundevin]

OMG Cedric had such a god hand. Everyone wanted Hector to win it. Oh well he still owns.

yeah we love our cubano~

[mokeys-papi]

fili doesn't have a ccv anymore, saw him sell for 2400 in san antonio

[PJ]

Seems a bit fishy that a new team of 2 topped the Shonen and one of them 'had' to run CCV and GS.

(Man I wish I had that kind of sponsorship..)

[Christian]

these prize cards should be like the ones at worlds....just a prize, not something so broken and rediculous that you'll beat your opponents no matter what you play with.

[PJ]

Or at least make them Alt. Art versins of already powerful cards (like BLS Envoy)