Should refs from other Pojo forums count towards the ref rule here?

[Secret Squirrel]

Well, you all voted (http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=32947), and the majority said that they wanted the ref rule enforced. The next question is that should refs from the Yugioh, Magic, VS, and DBZ count towards the ref rule here? (Just a reminder, this is not "Should refs from other boards, such as myuu's board count toward the ref rule. This is only for refs within the Pojo VB board.)

Vote now!


You might find the following threads interesting when deciding your vote:
http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=39875
http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=32176

[Gotenkz1025]

Sure, why not? People who worked for those refs deserve them, and it certifies that we are good traders to people who are new, and they won't be as cautious if they trade with us.

[mrdolphin]

It doesnt affect me, since as long as someone is trustworthy, I dont mind sending first. I just prefer they gotten refs from this particular board. Just my thing.

[Kaoz966]

i dont think because ygo been around longer and that gives those who traded there an advantage on this board

same w/ other older boards as well

[mrdolphin]

Yea, i agree. Suppose someone just recently started TCG's. He / she trades and gets a good number of refs. Then, here we go with intertwining the refs from other boards with people who have played and traded for YEARS. How is that fair that this new person has less refs because they just started but showed they were reliable.

[Gotenkz1025]

But how is having refs a contest? It is just to determine who is more trustworthy, and that people with more refs will not be rippers..it is not a contest to see who gets the most refs.

EDIT - To answer mrdolphin's post, the point of refs is to determine who is more reliable. If someone with 0 refs comes in, nobody knows if they are a ripper or not. An honest and trustworthy person would understand why they need to send first, and do so. A ripper will fight till the end trying to get other people to send first despite the rules. Like I said, it is not a contest to see who will get the most refs. Besides, if they have a problem with people having only like one ref when they have 0, then simply do not trade with them. Trade with people who have made a name for themselves on the board and who you are sure will be reliable.

[mrdolphin]

It MIGHT entice rippers. Who knows, someone with a TOTAL of 30 refs might rip someone here with 20 or something refs. Im just saying, I believe our current system is working right now, why complicate and inconvienience it? Like the electroral college in government (which seemed too confusing), our current system is fine. I dont really wanna explain my electoral college comment (I took an american gov exam today), if you know how complex it is, then..ya know....

[Gotenkz1025]

If someone is so scared of having rippers, then just send through delivery comformation. But the point of having refs is to single out the reliable traders from the rippers. A person with more refs is most likely not a ripper, and if they are, simply file mail fraud. You should not have a problem sending to a more established trader.

EDIT - Besides, the people who have refs from different boards have worked for them, and deserve to use them. This isn't like having refs transferred from myuu's board, this is Pojo..there should be one big G/B list for all of the trade boards.

[mrdolphin]

Still, its like going into somebody's house and telling that person to shut up and make him a sandwich. I rather have some one with high DM refs to make me send first than YGO refs. Sure it makes them reliable, but still. Im not scared of rippers and sure I can file mail fraud, but that is STILL taking my time, and time is money. and money is..money. Everything right now is fine. Keep it that way.

[Kaoz966]

thats not always true ive been told by many people that yugioh is not as careful when it comes to making sure refs are real. so it could be easier to get fake refs there bring em here and still have people ripping you here. all they need is 5 refs and they have enough and thats not hard at all to do over there. find 4 friend give each other refs, i guess you could do that here but if they dont check there (because of the traffic i guess) its a lot easier to do, i dont think they should be mixed

[Gotenkz1025]

Actually, if you go there with 4 friends and give eachother refs, they will check you out based on your post count and IP. The Yugioh board does not have many rippers, the last big one was Exodia34, but he is gone. So there are no rippers on the YGO board, and if there are, they are dealt with.

Besides, what is the difference between YGO refs and refs here? After awhile, this board will grow as well, making it harder and harder to verify trades the was SS does. If this board grows more, then it will take much longer to look at all the links posted to verify refs. The YGO board doesn't do it, but still has little to no rippers. If there are rippers there, then the mods and the G/B keeper will find out about it and badlist/ban them.

[Kaoz966]

but right now this board is small dm is dm if you wanna use ur ygo refs use em on ygo

and gotenkz your contradicting yourself with that quote YOU know what i mean

[Gotenkz1025]

The only reason you do not want to use other refs is because you do not have any and do not want to send first. This, I ask - Why? If someone has alot of refs they are a good trader. If you have a problem, let a mod know and file mail fraud, simple as that. I don't see a problem with it.

[Kaoz966]

the only reason you want to combine them is because you have a lot of refs and dont want to send first so what


okay lets examine the problems with countning all refs the same

two main ways of going about it one list or keep seperate lists

start with one list okay that just a really long list 2 check over and a lot of trouble for the mods and people checking the good bad traders lists

if you go with seperate lists thats that many more places you have 2 check to make sure people have the refs they claim to have.

[Secret Squirrel]

thats not always true ive been told by many people that yugioh is not as careful when it comes to making sure refs are real. so it could be easier to get fake refs there bring em here and still have people ripping you here. all they need is 5 refs and they have enough and thats not hard at all to do over there.

Can I like personally speak the people who think this? By my knolwedge, 3 mods proof the Yugioh list (me, Tranorix, and Emod), usually we spot reference skams easily enough.

find 4 friend give each other refs, i guess you could do that here but if they dont check there (because of the traffic i guess) its a lot easier to do, i dont think they should be mixed

The situation you are presenting cannot be done on our lists because technically you cannot give more than one reference to the person, regardless of how many times you've traded with each out. I check IP addresses frequently, and have picked up many other ways to spot those type of scams.

I guess you could do it here, but remember who the big power is... ME. mwhahahaha.

All I can say is, Emod makes mistakes... rarely.

Anyways, I'm not gonna vote on this, because I don't really trade here. :D

[Gotenkz1025]

What I think Kaoz is trying to say is that you could get 4 friends online on different computers to get accounts here and give a 5th person refs..but a fault in that would be that they'd all most likely have a low post count, causing suspicion on their part..

[Secret Squirrel]

I would be able to see that... we've had that happen before on the Yugioh list.

[Kaoz966]

lol i mainly did that 2 annoy gotenkz making up anything i could think of :D i dont really care much either way

[mrdolphin]

I got a question. How is the combining of the refs work? What happens if , lets say, trader A traded with Trader B on the YGO and PKMN forums. They come here with 2 refs each? (1 for pkmn, 1 for ygo) This scenerio can cause a double ref right? And if this would be excluded, that means the moderator must look at EACH page of the b/g list and see who traded with who. This scenario can make the "no double ref rule" weak since the double reffing will be widespread.

[Kaoz966]

thats true, also on ygo they used to let you give more than one ref per person (i dont know if they do anymore) so that could make 3 4 and 5 refs from the same person

[Gotenkz1025]

No, they never did, and still don't.

[Kaoz966]

even if they didnt which i coulda sworn they let you, theres still like 6 boards where u can get refs from da same person

[Secret Squirrel]

This is the reason I wanted to leave it the way I have it right now... just list every else's refs, don't have them count, but by listing them, one gets a better look at how much they've traded. If you all wanted them combined, it would look the same way it currently does, except you all would just have to do a little addition and say "I have this many refs".

And also, I'm updating the list today...

[mrdolphin]

But if it WERE to happen, and the board's refs count anywhere, whats your solution to the scenario I asked you about? You know, if some one had a ref from the same person at 3 different boards and came over here, would they have 3 refs automatically? And no, there is no way to make a BIG g/b trader list. Why? I HIGHLY doubt the mods on the YGO forum are able to track down who traded with who (if they did, Im amazed for life).

AND another thing.
My defense against "it shouldn't matter on who sends first, refs show that they are dependable" is that TIME is money. It doesnt really affect me, but to others who goes to tournaments maybe might need the cards early so that they can construct their decks accordingly. Like, for instance, if there was a last tournament at this store for X prizes, by knowing that someone sends the cards I need first, I can get those cards crucial for success at that tournament. This point may be small, but sending first can be more than someone ripping offa someone else. It can be about timing and when someone needs certain cards for some event.

Also, I think if the other refs should count, it should be less than the regular refs, maybe half's worth or it could be used as a tiebreaker.

[Gotenkz1025]

When someone trades online they know it will take at least 3-4 days to get cards traded, no matter where they are. If they want to trade and need cards that badly, then they should trade at their tournaments or at a card shop or buy them or something. If they need cards by a certain date, they shouldn't come here looking for them, as trading takes time.

[Raijin KerenskyOLD]

I am new to the DM boards, but it seems a bit unfair for people that a good amount of refs from other places on this website should have to send first to someone who has only done a few trades. Its disencouraging.

But on the same coin, it would be hard to track down who traded with whom unless you kept a list and that wouild get pretty big.

But I made my vote, of yes and I stick by it

[_Badfish]

What I think Kaoz is trying to say is that you could get 4 friends online on different computers to get accounts here and give a 5th person refs..but a fault in that would be that they'd all most likely have a low post count, causing suspicion on their part..

You just can't be too careful these days. People constanly post on the Deck Duscusion and Q and A forums to gain post count.

[mrdolphin]

When someone trades online they know it will take at least 3-4 days to get cards traded, no matter where they are. If they want to trade and need cards that badly, then they should trade at their tournaments or at a card shop or buy them or something. If they need cards by a certain date, they shouldn't come here looking for them, as trading takes time.

You got an answer for that, tho what happens if they dont have a DM tournament near them? You should know, as so should KAOZ966 when i say this. And who knows, maybe they made Tournaments with friends, and not inside a store, seeing as how DM in MD is rare.

Now, answer my other question. How is it going to work if they integrate ALL of the refs with each other? How are they gonna make sure that they dont double the refs of sum1? They is no way that there can be a "large list" of refs. If the pojo forums work so hard NOT to give sum1 more than 1 ref with trading with some1, whats the point of this rule if it is going to be broken? Might as well just leave things the way they are. Youve seen the YGO bad/good list, itll take alot...heck, a LONG time for someone to check who traded with who.

Seems to me no1 can answer this. No one has even tried, but they somehow managed to answer ever other defenses for anti ref integration

So lemme ask this..If i wanted to get a quick number of refs, all i gotta do is trade with sum1(same person) from each forum eh?
Note* im not going to do this, but people will....seriously, they WILL*

[Gotenkz1025]

Well if they don't have places to play DM such as tournaments, then what is the point of trying to get cards quickly? You won't need them by a certain date if there are no tournaments or the like around.

As for double-reffing, I really don't care. I worked for my other refs, and I would like to use them, and like Raijin said, I don't want to send first to some newbie because of a one ref difference or something.

[mrdolphin]

Ok, I still stand to my opinion, BECAUSE NO ONE HAS POSTED A SOLUTION/DEFENSE TO PRO-COMBINING REF TO WHAT I HAVE SAID.

"As for double-reffing, I really don't care. I worked for my other refs, and I would like to use them, and like Raijin said, I don't want to send first to some newbie because of a one ref difference or something."

That sorta sounds a bit different from previous posts. You said getting refs was not a contest. And it signifies that one is a good trader. So why does it matter to who sends first(WAAIIIT, doesnt that sound familiar to you? Afterall, you said it)? If the refs stay at a board, it signifies that someone is a good trader ON THAT BOARD. So if you send first, chances are you will get an honest trade. Doesn't that sound fair? And "newbie"? If your the one sending first, YOUR the newbie in that particular board (if this is when the refs are not combined).

Why make things complicated. Things are fine as they are. If the ygo ref system became so large and so hard to maintain, DM most likely will have the same problem. And after combining refs, things will get more hectic.
COME ON, please, anyone have a solution ^ for this? All I have been hearing is "Ive worked hard for my refs" from people who HAS alot of refs so this is FOR them. And the people who are AGAINST this (did they ever post?) side is that its a different/new game and should have a separate list/makes it easier to maintain.
And NO, this wont be a case of DOUBLE reffing. Make that triple or quadruple. All you need is 5 friends to get a ref count to 25. And I dont think they will be caught. They can easily just go to different computers with different IP address (i.e. libraries). Most likely they wont post the refs at the same time to not look suspicious.
there are already double reffing that NO one can ever see/stop, so by enforcing this ref combining thing, is basically enforcing double/triple/quadruple and above reffing.

Thats right, im 100% against this. Bottom line: (a summary of ALL my posts)
1) Those FOR this poll are those that *mostly* have high YGO refs and want to gain more refs to make others send first, ADMIT it.
2) Those NOT for this poll are those that *maybe* have all their trading in the DM forum (which, by the way, has SO MUCH less trading going on and is new, a new game, a new board, a new list)
3) Refs, at this point, ARE NOT SIGNIFIERS of how many trades one has. SOOOOOOO many ways of getting refs, its not even funny. And refs arent considered "how good of a trader we are." It determines who sends first. Admit it, EVERYONE who is for this poll cares about sending first no matter what they say/
4) 99.9% IMO, is the chance of MAJOR double reffing and above. Unless every computer has a hidden camera, 5 friends can give each other 15 refs and above in trading on different boards of this forum.
5) Mail fraud CAN be done, but it is not as easy as said. Paperwork, evidence, TIME, its not worth it. And dont say it is always worth it. I am a high school student that will start junior year this fall. Ill be (insert D word) if I spend my time trying to file mail fraud while trying to pass physics, calculus, etc. Face it, you cant ALWAYS file mail fraud. And delivery confirmation? No, sometimes its not worth paying 4 bux(in my state) just for cards, I rather use that money towards games that will LAST (in exception to magic)
6) And the most important point, NO ONE, not even those FOR this poll, can come up with a solution of my double reffing point, but just not answer it or just plain disregarded it even tho it puts a MAJOR damper on thier favored choice on the poll.

Thats all of my ideas put together. Dont dare bash or flame me, as Ive stated my opinions and with explanations.
Secret Squirrel, do you agree with my thoughts or not? Plz reply
(also, why is there no G/B trader list in PKMN? Its a bit unfair IMO)

[Kaoz966]

well then people who only play DM would be sending first until we get more people as the number of ygo traders greatly outnumber the DM players

why should the only one to think they shouldnt have to send first be those who played yugioh or another game in its prime, fact is this isnt yugioh

[Gotenkz1025]

Ok, I still stand to my opinion, BECAUSE NO ONE HAS POSTED A SOLUTION/DEFENSE TO PRO-COMBINING REF TO WHAT I HAVE SAID.

"As for double-reffing, I really don't care. I worked for my other refs, and I would like to use them, and like Raijin said, I don't want to send first to some newbie because of a one ref difference or something."

That sorta sounds a bit different from previous posts. You said getting refs was not a contest. And it signifies that one is a good trader. So why does it matter to who sends first(WAAIIIT, doesnt that sound familiar to you? Afterall, you said it)? If the refs stay at a board, it signifies that someone is a good trader ON THAT BOARD. So if you send first, chances are you will get an honest trade. Doesn't that sound fair? And "newbie"? If your the one sending first, YOUR the newbie in that particular board (if this is when the refs are not combined).

Well, I thank you for supporting my arguement, then. :) Also, if someone is a good trader on one board, why would they not be a good trader on another board? Also, I still stand behind my statement that getting refs is not a contest. I merely want to be able to put them to good use by using them. And if you are a newbie on another board, and you send first, then it is only LIKELY that you will not be ripped off(WAAIIIT, doesn't that sound familiar to you? Afterall, you said it). It is never 100% certain that you will get an honest trade, yes, but that is what those refs are for. So I will be known as an honest trader.


All I have been hearing is "Ive worked hard for my refs" from people who HAS alot of refs so this is FOR them. And the people who are AGAINST this (did they ever post?) side is that its a different/new game and should have a separate list/makes it easier to maintain.

You have been hearing that "I've worked hard for my refs and I want to use them" because the people that are in favor of this have a high amount of refs, yes, which makes them good traders.


And NO, this wont be a case of DOUBLE reffing. Make that triple or quadruple. All you need is 5 friends to get a ref count to 25. And I dont think they will be caught. They can easily just go to different computers with different IP address (i.e. libraries). Most likely they wont post the refs at the same time to not look suspicious.
there are already double reffing that NO one can ever see/stop, so by enforcing this ref combining thing, is basically enforcing double/triple/quadruple and above reffing.

Not true. Library computers are connected through a LAN, making them all have either fake IP's(IP's that are made by being networked to another computer) or the same IP as the computers around it, so yes, they would be caught. But really..if you are this paranoid about people getting double/triple/whatever reffed, then simply send with insurance.


1) Those FOR this poll are those that *mostly* have high YGO refs and want to gain more refs to make others send first, ADMIT it.

Yes, so? We have high refs because WE ARE GOOD TRADERS. I don't care if you're sick of hearing it, but we have WORKED for our refs, and would like to use them.


2) Those NOT for this poll are those that *maybe* have all their trading in the DM forum (which, by the way, has SO MUCH less trading going on and is new, a new game, a new board, a new list)

Well, if the people trading in DM boards have low refs, then they should seek people with high refs to trade with, and if they are still suspicious, send with insurance/delivery comf. It isn't that hard.


3) Refs, at this point, ARE NOT SIGNIFIERS of how many trades one has. SOOOOOOO many ways of getting refs, its not even funny. And refs arent considered "how good of a trader we are." It determines who sends first. Admit it, EVERYONE who is for this poll cares about sending first no matter what they say.[QUOTE]

I would like to see how easy these refs are to get. If you are so paranoid, why don't you use those methods to get more refs? And everyone who is against this poll cares about NOT sending first, no matter what they say. If it were such an issue on getting ripped off, then people would send with some sort of insurance and it wouldn't be such a problem.


[QUOTE=mrdolphin]4) 99.9% IMO, is the chance of MAJOR double reffing and above. Unless every computer has a hidden camera, 5 friends can give each other 15 refs and above in trading on different boards of this forum.

I have already answered this.


5) Mail fraud CAN be done, but it is not as easy as said. Paperwork, evidence, TIME, its not worth it. And dont say it is always worth it. I am a high school student that will start junior year this fall. Ill be (insert D word) if I spend my time trying to file mail fraud while trying to pass physics, calculus, etc. Face it, you cant ALWAYS file mail fraud. And delivery confirmation? No, sometimes its not worth paying 4 bux(in my state) just for cards, I rather use that money towards games that will LAST (in exception to magic)

There is no need for paperwork or anything. Simply save all of your emails/PMs and you are safe. Trust me, I know. I have filed mail fraud many times and have ALWAYS gotten my cards back. It does not take much time to fill out a form on a website. Also, if it is such a time-consuming matter to file mail fraud, wouldn't it be a time-consuming matter to be on these forums to trade in the first place? You do not need delivery comformation. Sending with regular insurance costs $.97 at the post office, and you still get all the securities of sending with delivery comf.


6) And the most important point, NO ONE, not even those FOR this poll, can come up with a solution of my double reffing point, but just not answer it or just plain disregarded it even tho it puts a MAJOR damper on thier favored choice on the poll.

I have come up with a solution. Send with insurance and it won't be a problem.

Now, don't get me wrong, by no means am I trying to bash/flame you. You have very good points and such, but there are ways around them. Wouldn't wanna lose a friend over a debate about pieces of cardboard. :p

[Gotenkz1025]

well then people who only play DM would be sending first until we get more people as the number of ygo traders greatly outnumber the DM players

why should the only one to think they shouldnt have to send first be those who played yugioh or another game in its prime, fact is this isnt yugioh


Because refs are not about seeing who sends first. Refs are about seeing who is reliable and honest. If you do not believe someone is honest, simply do not trade with them.

[Kaoz966]

Because refs are not about seeing who sends first. Refs are about seeing who is reliable and honest. If you do not believe someone is honest, simply do not trade with them.



who cares who is honest, the ref system dictates who sends first so what are they for, seeing who sends first

[Kaoz966]

There is no need for paperwork or anything. Simply save all of your emails/PMs and you are safe. Trust me, I know. I have filed mail fraud many times and have ALWAYS gotten my cards back. It does not take much time to fill out a form on a website. Also, if it is such a time-consuming matter to file mail fraud, wouldn't it be a time-consuming matter to be on these forums to trade in the first place? You do not need delivery comformation. Sending with regular insurance costs $.97 at the post office, and you still get all the securities of sending with delivery comf.

^ you said that i dont feel like quoting it because you wrote so much (gotenkz)



its not expenseive 2 go get the insurance but it is inconvenient 2 have to go to the post office to mail a card instead of just going to the mailbox

[Gotenkz1025]

No, sending first is only a part of the ref system. Someone who has a good amount of refs, such as myself, is less likely to rip you off. If someone came in here with zero refs with the intention to rip people off and the ref system was not in place, then they would succeed in ripping people off. That is why the ref system is in place.

[Kaoz966]

say i claim that you ripped me off gotenkz, and say you did but you deny it

who will they believe someone with 20 some odd refs or 4

[Gotenkz1025]

There is no need for paperwork or anything. Simply save all of your emails/PMs and you are safe. Trust me, I know. I have filed mail fraud many times and have ALWAYS gotten my cards back. It does not take much time to fill out a form on a website. Also, if it is such a time-consuming matter to file mail fraud, wouldn't it be a time-consuming matter to be on these forums to trade in the first place? You do not need delivery comformation. Sending with regular insurance costs $.97 at the post office, and you still get all the securities of sending with delivery comf.

^ you said that i dont feel like quoting it because you wrote so much (gotenkz)



its not expenseive 2 go get the insurance but it is inconvenient 2 have to go to the post office to mail a card instead of just going to the mailbox


If it is so inconvenient, simply don't trade. If you feel that you don't trust someone enough for you to send first, and don't want to go to the post office, then don't trade with them. But remember..if a trade is too good to be true, it usually is.

[Gotenkz1025]

say i claim that you ripped me off gotenkz, and say you did but you deny it

who will they believe someone with 20 some odd refs or 4

If you have the proof(emails and such), then they will believe you. I believe I already said this before.

[Kaoz966]

that doesnt solve the problem just dont trade, i could say to you just trade on the yugioh boards if you want to use your ygo refs like i said earlier its not fair for someone 2 come in here with more refs than are available here

[Kaoz966]

why would they believe that i sent just for showing them an email now ive never had this happen but in my mind they would trust the person with more refs

[Gotenkz1025]

that doesnt solve the problem just dont trade, i could say to you just trade on the yugioh boards if you want to use your ygo refs like i said earlier its not fair for someone 2 come in here with more refs than are available here

It does solve the problem. If you don't trade with a person you don't trust, you won't get ripped off, now will you? I guess it doesn't matter what you say to me, though, as it is votes that count.

[Kaoz966]

of course votes the board is all biased so when somone comes in with 30 refs out of 26 people that'll be really fair to everyone else on the board

beside who says SS has 2 go by what people want hes the mod not us, in the end he would be the one to choose what happens not some poll, whether he goes by the poll or not

[Kaoz966]

okay maybe it does solve that problem but so does yugioh people using their refs on the yugioh board why not go by that theory

[Gotenkz1025]

of course votes the board is all biased so when somone comes in with 30 refs out of 26 people that'll be really fair to everyone else on the board

Well, yeah. It is biased because people think they deserve to use their refs that they worked for.

beside who says SS has 2 go by what people want hes the mod not us, in the end he would be the one to choose what happens not some poll, whether he goes by the poll or not

Well, if that were the case, he wouldn't have made this poll in the first place.

[Gotenkz1025]

okay maybe it does solve that problem but so does yugioh people using their refs on the yugioh board why not go by that theory

Because it isn't a problem. If you are a good trader, and someone has more refs than you, you shouldn't need to worry about sending first. But like I said, if you're suspicious, either don't trade with that person or send with some sort of insurance.

EDIT - Sorry to the mods for double-posting so many times. Can't really keep up with the other people hehe.

[Kaoz966]

what work your not doing any work for refs

your trading colectible cards its meant to be fun its no where near work,

and you never know why he made the poll he could have made it 2 see what everyone thinks i doubt that but who knows. you cant analyze someones head if the only thing you know about them is that theyre the mod of some websotes message board so dont try

[Gotenkz1025]

what work your not doing any work for refs

your trading colectible cards its meant to be fun its no where near work,

Hehe, this is just turning into a flame war. What I meant by this was I did alot of trades on this forum before you even came here, so I know what I'm talking about.

and you never know why he made the poll he could have made it 2 see what everyone thinks i doubt that but who knows. you cant analyze someones head if the only thing you know about them is that theyre the mod of some websotes message board so dont try

I could say the same thing to you. Now, I'm not going to respond here anymore unless it is something where I find I need to say something, as I don't want this thread to get locked..wouldn't want it to get out of hand or anything, hehe.

[Kaoz966]

Because it isn't a problem. If you are a good trader, and someone has more refs than you, you shouldn't need to worry about sending first. But like I said, if you're suspicious, either don't trade with that person or send with some sort of insurance.

^gotenkz

how can you say its not a problem you have more refs than are available to people on this board so they can never catch up sure your reliable so what does having 31 refs make you more trustworthy than someone with 30, youd like to know sometimes that theres zero chance of getting ripped even if it is a small chance generally zero is better than lets say 10



i never said what he thought i said maybe, you said then what else for or something to that effect

as well like i recomended to you over aim 3 days ago i will stop responding


hehe yea sorry about the double posts as well

[mrdolphin]

::wakes up and looks at the recent posts and falls down::
All this happened when I was knocked out?
WELL, YOU WANNA KNOW WHAT I THINK????!??!!??!? :mad:









This isnt worth my time , I got a Poke'mon deal thats worth more my time than this ;) , and it doesnt matter really who has the refs in this deal cuz im trading in a different forum with 1 ref ::shrugs::

[Raijin KerenskyOLD]

What is wrong with people using the refs that they earned for trading. Does it matter if it was a pokeman card, DM, or YGO? The person will vouch for the person, not the game.

Is it fair to let people who traded to lose their refs?

My idea is this...This is only an idea, so no hate mail please.

Any non DM trader that comes here can use his non DM refs here, once. Once he makes a successful trade, he gets that one ref, and he loses his non DM refs. Ths is far from perfect, but I at least speak realisticly.

[Bass.exe GS]

i have never traded online before. what is the ref rule? is it whoever has the least refs sends first?

[Gotenkz1025]

Yes, that is the rule..it's all on the first post in the good/bad traders topic.

[mrdolphin]

I still think No One has given a solution for the double reffing. Delivery confirmation is not a solution, as it still costs money and some of us are trying to trade so that we dont have to waste any more money on cards.

But anyways, this doesnt concern me anymore, but here's my biggest question.

Why is there no Pokemon Good/Bad trader list?
Marvel has one and its alot newer and younger than pokemon.

[Gotenkz1025]

Just to clear this up. Insurance costs about $.73 more than a regular stamp. You're spending money on trading, no matter what way you look at it. It's just that this way, you know you won't get ripped. I think this is a good solution.

On another note, I would like to see a Pokemon G/B traders list as well.

[Secret Squirrel]

<Please Note: I am not trying to bash/offend anyone in this thread. You are entitled to your own opinions and me mine. I am just addressing specific people>

Jesus Christ, you people argue. Ok.. here we go...

I'm kinda leading towards what Kaoz was saying. The whole arguement about honesty is pure crap in my mind. Refs don't say how honest you are, they say how many trades you have completed successfully. Unless you have the Mullenium Scale/Ankh, you can't tell how honest a person is. ANYONE can be a ripper. Most of you don't have any incentive to do so, but it's possible.

The ref rule is about you people with lots of refs having the other person send first. There is really nothing else.

Basically, the arguement I'm seeing here is that the people with high yugioh refs want the refs combined so they can force more people to send first. The other group (people with fewer refs in other sections) don't want this to happen for some reason or another.

So, to answer mrdolphin's question, what is the solution to triple reffing? MOI. If you're getting all uppy about this, then I think you're infering that I'm not doing a good job with the list. Even so, they'd have to provide proof.

1) Those FOR this poll are those that *mostly* have high YGO refs and want to gain more refs to make others send first, ADMIT it.

This is true.

2) Those NOT for this poll are those that *maybe* have all their trading in the DM forum (which, by the way, has SO MUCH less trading going on and is new, a new game, a new board, a new list)

such as yourself.

3) Refs, at this point, ARE NOT SIGNIFIERS of how many trades one has. SOOOOOOO many ways of getting refs, its not even funny. And refs arent considered "how good of a trader we are." It determines who sends first. Admit it, EVERYONE who is for this poll cares about sending first no matter what they say

I agree with you on this.

4) 99.9% IMO, is the chance of MAJOR double reffing and above. Unless every computer has a hidden camera, 5 friends can give each other 15 refs and above in trading on different boards of this forum.

There's always been that threat. But you've all of a sudden become like paronoid. I talk with minion frequently, and if he and I see some suspisous refs, we'll investigate.

5) Mail fraud CAN be done, but it is not as easy as said. Paperwork, evidence, TIME, its not worth it. And dont say it is always worth it. I am a high school student that will start junior year this fall. Ill be (insert D word) if I spend my time trying to file mail fraud while trying to pass physics, calculus, etc. Face it, you cant ALWAYS file mail fraud. And delivery confirmation? No, sometimes its not worth paying 4 bux(in my state) just for cards, I rather use that money towards games that will LAST (in exception to magic)

That's your business. The ref rule can try to prevent that, but people get ripped, by anyone.

6) And the most important point, NO ONE, not even those FOR this poll, can come up with a solution of my double reffing point, but just not answer it or just plain disregarded it even tho it puts a MAJOR damper on thier favored choice on the poll.

See 4.


Because refs are not about seeing who sends first. Refs are about seeing who is reliable and honest. If you do not believe someone is honest, simply do not trade with them.

Not in my opinion. As I stated above, it is physically possible for anyone to rip you. The refs say that this person has completed this many trades, and that they were reliable and honest FOR THAT TRADE. Just because you got an A on a test, doesn't necessarily mean you'll get an A on the next one. In my mind, the ref rule should say: "This person has completed x trades and if you have fewer refs then this person, you must send first."


beside who says SS has 2 go by what people want hes the mod not us, in the end he would be the one to choose what happens not some poll, whether he goes by the poll or not

Oh so now it's the mods don't give a <pojo_ownz><pojo_ownz><pojo_ownz><pojo_ownz><pojo_ownz> arguement. Did you really think I am posting this poll to taunt you? I will enforce what the people want.

If you are a good trader, and someone has more refs than you, you shouldn't need to worry about sending first. But like I said, if you're suspicious, either don't trade with that person or send with some sort of insurance.

But what defines a good trader? In my mind, not your ### of references. Those say how honest you were at the time and do not predict the future. People are good traders for a time, because there is always the possiblilty that a good trader will rip someone off.

On another note, I would like to see a Pokemon G/B traders list as well.

No one is stopping you from setting one up. ;)



<braces for the impact of the continuing flame war>

[Gotenkz1025]

I'm not flaming anyone at all, nor do I think is anyone else. I am just stating my opinions on the matter.

On another note, If I set up a Pokemon G/B list, would you sticky it?

[Kaoz966]

Oh so now it's the mods don't give a <pojo_ownz><pojo_ownz><pojo_ownz><pojo_ownz><pojo_ownz> arguement. Did you really think I am posting this poll to taunt you? I will enforce what the people want.


i never said that, who knows what the poll could be for, they dont have to be final could just be to see what people think... i figured they were oing to be the deciding factor i was just making the point to gotenkz that its not final till you or another mod says theyre enforced

[Secret Squirrel]

I'm not flaming anyone at all, nor do I think is anyone else. I am just stating my opinions on the matter.

I didn't say you were.

On another note, If I set up a Pokemon G/B list, would you sticky it?

I don't have mod powers in that forum. Ask CatDog.

i never said that, who knows what the poll could be for, they dont have to be final could just be to see what people think... i figured they were oing to be the deciding factor i was just making the point to gotenkz that its not final till you or another mod says theyre enforced

I want to know what to enforce. I will go by the majority of this poll.

[CGChewie1337]

This is stupid... This is one community: Pojo. If these were different sites, I'd see your point, but here... Seeing as Pojo can enforce rules across all trading boards (no auctions, no selling only topics) I see no reason why refs shouldn't be across all the boards.

But it really does't matter. If you choose to have DM, MTG, YGO, and VS refs all seperate, I'll simply only trade on the board where I have refs, which will stun THIS board's growth potential.

[Kaoz966]

they dont enforce the same rules on all the boards, a few rules are different

[CGChewie1337]

That's what I mean, they have some rules that apply to all of them, but some important ones (like refs) are board-wise.

[mrdolphin]

So let me get this straight....
If this poll votes "aye" instead of "nay"....
will MY refs count towards the YGO forums?
If so, I have no problem,
::goes back to Tales of Destiny::

And please, Im just asking a question so no smart aleck responses, I had too many lately.

[CGChewie1337]

Again, refs are refs. They should be good ANYWHERE on pojo.

[Secret Squirrel]

If the majority votes yes, Yugioh refs will count as DM refs. Ex. if you have 11 DM refs and 25 yugioh refs, in the dm section, your ref total will be 36. Not visa versa. You can't add your DM refs to count as yugioh refs. You have to list them seperately there. Hope that's clear.

[mrdolphin]

ok, so, the mods from the other boards are accepting DM refs right?

[Secret Squirrel]

ok, so, the mods from the other boards are accepting DM refs right?

I don't know. All I know is that I will be accepting all refs from this board as dm refs. You'll have to ask Minion if he'll accept dm refs as yugioh refs.

[mrdolphin]

OK, ill try to do that.

this is what I was afraid of. People who are saying the refs from other boards should count here are TOO much of an advantage. Mostly, they are the YGO (mostly i think) traders. If minion accepts, then I have no problem. If not, then I do. So that means us DM mostly players CANT use our refs that WE have EARNED. The reason why I am making such a big deal is that points such as "refs arent a contest and those who got refs should use them" and all that other bull are from players that are mostly are benefitting from this. And yes, I am against this because I mostly have refs here (but I also have refs on the yugioh board and some on the pokemon board) so I admit it, shouldve or wouldve been obvious. This is not meant to flame or bash anyone. Im just saying that unless DM refs are used in other boards, then any other board's refs SHOULDNT belong here.

Look, Im a fair man and Im not selfish. You cant say "people deserve the refs so shut up" to me. Im ok with this integration ONLY if the refs that I RIGHTFULLY earned are usable. I mean, its fair right? If we can use YGO refs on the DM board, we can use DM refs for the YGO board right?

State your opinions on my last sentence above.

[CGChewie1337]

I understand your point, and I fully agree with it. Refs are refs and SHOULD be pojo-wide, not board-wide. You and I want the same thing, dolphin.

[mrdolphin]

Thank you CCG. We are following the same idea.

Here is another comment.

SS, you told me to ask minion if he would accept DM refs. if he refuses, will this poll's outcome matter? I mean, if YES is the majority, will YGO, MTG, etc refs count here but not vice versa?

I think if the other boards dont agree then it shouldnt affect us DM players. Its not fair if its not a two way road. If one board agrees and another doesnt, we can intergrate the refs from the ones that agree.

What do you think SS? Its fair isnt it? After all, us DM players EARNED those refs.

And to everyone else. Those who are FOR on this poll. would you say no instead if DM refs dont count to ygo but ygo count here and etc. If the case is that "those who earned refs should be able to use them", that pertains to us DM mostly reffers (sorry for the weird words) as well right?

All of this is just my thoughts. Its fair IMO. I dont care if people say Im saying no because I have hardly any YGO/MTG etc refs, i dont, but I would love to use my DM refs just as much as those who would love to use their YGO refs elsewhere other than the YGO boards.

EDIT: SS, you have the power to decide whether or not this poll matters right? If I were you, I would do what is fair, not necassarily best. I know Im fighting alot on this poll, but dont say Im just a whiner. I have 6 ygo, 2 pokemon refs to add to my 16. I rather would want the many refs I gained from this section and like gotenkz said "use them because Ive EARNED them."

[Gotenkz1025]

I would also like to use my DM refs and YGO refs on other trading boards here, because I trade on at least 3 different boards here.

[dragonfire]

Ok has the ref rule changed again. I'm doing a DM trade with a guy that has 28 Yugioh refs and no DM refs but i have 8. He saying I have to send first am I suppose to?

[Gotenkz1025]

The rule hasn't changed yet.

[CGChewie1337]

Any new news on this?

[Rai Kerensky]

My idea is this...This is only an idea, so no hate mail please.

Any non DM trader that comes here can use his non DM refs here, once. Once he makes a successful trade, he gets that one ref, and he loses his non DM refs. Ths is far from perfect, but I at least speak realisticly.

I see no one even gave my idea a comment. Its a start for a solution to double refing.

[Yuriv-ni-Wolfram]

I would have to agree with Dark Messenger...
Any non DM trader that comes here can use his non DM refs here, once. Once he makes a successful trade, he gets that one ref, then the ref's he has from the other forum no longer count to wards his Dm Ref's he has to build his or her ref's from trades on this Forum and let them build there ref's with the Trades they make in here to count as there Dm Ref's.
This would keep things fair to all in the Dm Forum. allowing there ref's out side of Dm Forum to count give the the Dm Forum only User's a dia advantage. when a person form the other forums that been running for years come in and make a trade... I have to say honestly DM forum should have it's own ref's seperate from the other forums cause it is a forum just starting and the other forum user's take advantage of that fact in forceing the other's to have to send frist... where it really should strictly be Dm Ref's only... other's might dis agree but bet if you took a poll you would see I'm right...

[dragonfire]

I agree with dark messenger and Yuriv-ni-Wolfram. Their i da is cool.

[mrdolphin]

Yea, i see the point. I would totally agree on that. this way, we MAINLY dm players' refs does not go to waste. Dont say "refs count that you will most not likely get ripped". There is a thing called time and money. Even tho we are trading online, if we dont know anyone near us that has certain cards, where else can we get them before a tournament?????

[Secret Squirrel]

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