Banned?

[<X4>]

Hiya, I have a little question. Sorry if I come off as a total noob but I honestly have not clue. :p

When people say evade moves are banned, what do they mean?
Banned from what? Is there a competition that has banned them or is this a consensus of users on this forum?

Also, why is this?

Thank you and sorry again for being an abolute noob. :o

[dado90]

u shouldn't post this thread at tis forum, but at the Q&A forum. So i don noe wat u mean.

[dkates]

If this is in the wrong forum, it would belong in the Pokemon Apprentice & Netbattle Help and Battle requests Forum.

To answer your question, on Netbattle, many people will not play against people who use evasion moves like Double Team; their reasoning is that it adds too much luck to the game.

Personally, I think it's a load of bull, but that's me. Sure, it adds an element of luck to the game, but so does using any move with an Accuracy rating of less than 100%. Besides, some Pokemon are only useful if you can use those moves, because their movepools just aren't good enough without them.

[<X4>]

Thanks for answering my question and also sorry for posting in the wrong place :o

[MagicBarrier]

Double Team and Minimize are banned in RBY because it upsets the balance of the metagame. The only plausible counter for evasion in RBY is Haze, and only three Pokemon learn it: Golbat, Vaporeon, and Weezing. Golbat and Weezing are horrible in the overused metagame, and have better things to do than Haze. Out of these, Vaporeon is the only decent Hazer of the bunch. So, in order to counter this strategy, you have to use Vaporeon or an impractical counter.

Plus, it adds unnecessary, gross amounts of luck to the game. You can miss every time if the opponent uses evasion, or you can hit every single time after your opponent has used evasion six times. That's not skill, it's pure luck that the game could do without.




Personally, I think it's a load of bull, but that's me. Sure, it adds an element of luck to the game, but so does using any move with an Accuracy rating of less than 100%. Besides, some Pokemon are only useful if you can use those moves, because their movepools just aren't good enough without them.

A missed Rock Slide or whatnot probably won't change the tide of the battle; missing your opponent several times in a row will. Besides, you can switch in Rhydon or whatnot to absorb the attack; you can't counter DT unless you use Vaporeon or an impractical strategy.

If a Pokemon is so crappy that it needs evasion to be good, don't use that Pokemon. The metagame shouldn't suffer so a crappy Pokemon can become a little bit better. =/

[<X4>]

If a Pokemon is so crappy that it needs evasion to be good, don't use that Pokemon. The metagame shouldn't suffer so a crappy Pokemon can become a little bit better. =/

In my opinion that's got absolutely nothing do do with it. Just cos a pokemon has inherently low defense of special doesnt make it crap. For instance if you wanted dugtrio because you fancied a ground type that was faster than a lot of the electrics, but you know it cant take psysical damage, you need double team to cover your bases (to a fashion).

So you see Double Team IS strategy. Just cos some might have a hard time fighting against it doesnt mean they should get rid of it, it means they should improve their tactics themselves. It's in the game for a reason, and writing it off just seems like a cop out. And yes you are right in saying that using evade is mostly down to luck, but it's taking the chance itself that is a part of the strategy, and whether or not your risk pays off. Anyways if people cant stand to miss so much, get a pokemon that knows swift. What's more is double team takes so long to get going effectively that the pokemon using it is a sitting duck for 3 turns, so it reall doesnt make that much difference anyway.

Besides it's only noticable effect is when people use high power/low accuracy attacks like Thunder, and that's half the problem cos they'd miss quite a few times with or without double team (which just clinches it).

So shouldn't sing be banned cos that's only got like 50% accuracy. And also moves like bodly slam where there is only 30% chance of paralysis? Or confusion moves, cos if your confused you only have a 50% chance of hitting the tartget? There's just no point. People should just play the game like it was made to be played.

If the game was nothing but type matching and "fire balsting" it would get reall boring. Straeigic manouvers stop the game from being 1dimensional. I don't think they should be banned at all.

Anyways this thread's gone a small fraction off the topic :( but I've downloaded netbattle now and I'm having an awesome time with it.

CHeers guys! :)

[Goldfighter]

Surprised Fly and Dig aint banned.

Those were always moves that pretty much guranteed to miss the opponents next attack.

[Smaug]

ok the moves arent banned but in netbattle some people wont battle you becuase they suck at pokemon battling. the moves upset thier battle strategy. also in netbattle somepeople wont battle ubers, blissy, or wobbafett.

[<X4>]

I eat ubers for breakfast.

[Mac_the_Great]

ok the moves arent banned but in netbattle some people wont battle you becuase they suck at pokemon battling. the moves upset thier battle strategy. also in netbattle somepeople wont battle ubers, blissy, or wobbafett.
Yes, people clearly suck if they don't want to have to use Mewtwo in every RBY team because the other guy sure as hell will.

+Evasion moves increase the luck element far too much. No-one is saying that there is no luck in battling. These moves, however, can make it possible for a totally inferior player to win completely through luck. When this can be avoided by just banning the cheap moves, there is no reason not to.

[<X4>]

Using Mewtwo is like putting the game on easy mode....mind you I have no problem in despensing of Mewtwo using no ubers at all.

Also if the'yre clever enough to avoid just smashing away at the oponent and instead using tactics such as DT, then they do deserve to win. It's just people who thinkits all about using the strongest move first, and it kills all the strategy.

[Mac_the_Great]

Also if the'yre clever enough to avoid just smashing away at the oponent and instead using tactics such as DT, then they do deserve to win. It's just people who thinkits all about using the strongest move first, and it kills all the strategy.
Are you actually r-tarded or something? Where did I say that only attacking moves were fair. Effective use of status effects, stat-ups, etc are part of being good at this. Using Double Team a few times and hoping that they never hit you is not skill.

Its also worth mentioning that on all online Battling communities, these moves are generally accepted as ceap and their use is frowned upon to the degree that people will refuse to play you if you are using them. Much like a YGO player refusing to play someone who will not take Chaos Emperor Dragon out of his/her deck.

If you want to win through getting lucky, then go ahead. But don't expect people to humor you.

[<X4>]

Are you actually r-tarded or something? Where did I say that only attacking moves were fair. Effective use of status effects, stat-ups, etc are part of being good at this. Using Double Team a few times and hoping that they never hit you is not skill.

Its also worth mentioning that on all online Battling communities, these moves are generally accepted as ceap and their use is frowned upon to the degree that people will refuse to play you if you are using them. Much like a YGO player refusing to play someone who will not take Chaos Emperor Dragon out of his/her deck.

If you want to win through getting lucky, then go ahead. But don't expect people to humor you.

Now there's no need to take offence, we're all here just to share our opinions not to go calling people ******s. And if you take a look I never actually said anything about you or said that you said anything, I was just expressing my opinion.

I respect your opinion so you should respect others. My point is, that it doesnt make any difference, and its just too much like nit picking to refuse to battle people with double team, its as good a move as any, afterall confusion puts a lot down to luck, even more so than double team and as you did say "Using Double Team a few times and hoping that they never hit you is not skill." I find to be the opposite. It's just as much skill as using confuse ray and hoping the enmy doesnt attack, or sleep powder and hoping they don't awaken, evasion is a tactic, and it's one we should get used to fighting against in the game...I have my techniques (for instance forcing a switch out will undo the evasion).

However I can apreciate why you hold your opinion, without having to agree with you, but if you lose your temper at people just cos they dont agree with you, your the one people will stop humoring.

In my opinion nintendo put the move in so it should stay in, there's no use griping about it just because your having a hard time, if anything we should be glad that the game isn't too easy as it keeps us entertained. As I've said before, you should adapt your own strategies rather than force others to adapt theirs. In link battles their would be nothing you could do do stop it. (apart from refusing to play, but I don't think that's a lot of fun really) You'd get a lot better at the game for overcoming the dificulties instead of refusing to acknowledge them.

Anyway despite our disagreements I apreciate your contribution, its imprtant that we are presented with every angle of the argument, just try and remember we're all buddies here. K?

[SpringChocobo]

I refuse to fight Double Teamers. If they pull a mere 1 on me I'll disconnect.
It's like the Smeargle Spore/Sheer Cold combo on a lower scale. And extremely annoying at that.

Some servers form alliances against Double Team and other cheap moves, such as Substitute. But none can actually ban them like they do legendaries and ubers. People like me tend to use more standard, offensive moves.

[mech-hound]

Competitive Pokemon Bans stuff because it ruins the metagame. DT is both luck based and overpowered. We've had tournies were we allowed them, they weren't incredibly balanced. We banned sheer cold because its Overpowered and luck based too. 30% chance of losing a pokemon is generally unacceptable. Any OTK is unacceptable. We're not saying DT isn't a real strategy it just screws over all the other ones.

[J Man Cool]

back in the day (1999-2000), double team was banned for the sheer fact that it prolonged battles and made them boring as hell.

There is that luck factor, but the fact that most people would go down to Molly Nut Bombs (Chansey with Minimize, softboiled, s-toss, and t-wave) and such, making the battle no fun to play.

Anyone who thinks DT wars with Rest are fun should be shot.

[133tWeavile]

Surprised Fly and Dig aint banned.

Those were always moves that pretty much guranteed to miss the opponents next attack.

You can just switch Pokemon in that can absorb it. If someone uses Fly just switch in Rhydon/Golem or a pokeon with high Defense. and with Dig, just switch to a flyer

[Mr.Missingno]

If someone were to use,say dragonite,and his opponent were to use dt over and over,and dragonite were to use hyper beam,he would be vulnerable to attack.In other words,he is gonna faint

[Doctor Unne]

post deleted

[Black Paladin]

Don't forget Swift. That baby never misses. Get it with a pokemon with good ATK, then pokemon like Chansey and Clefable are good as dead.

[Wynn Notus]

You know what I find sad? People whining because something is based outside of their control. I personally welcome randomness in a game like pokemon, because the battle is nothing like a pokemon battle in the show. THe pokemon in the show take fewer hits to go down and have a better evasiveness. If Game Freak could come up with a battle sequence like the ones in the show, the game would be more fun, moves liek Double team would actually do what they are supposed to. I have been handed by Scizors with Double team so often its not even funny, but I dont cry about it. I dont' turn off my game and act like a total loser. I am so tired of people complaining. If you don't like someone using a Luck based move, don't play. Period.

Additional Comment:

In addition: Yes the battles may take longer, but that is where strategy takes palce. Like Ninjask using Double Team then Swords dance and Bato nPassing out. True you end up with a godliek pokemon, and the duel takes forever, but I respect someone who is willing to bore themselves to take a more interesting way to defeat you.

Additional Comment:

I am so tired of the boring old "Oh I am gong to Increase my attack power then Attack you with an 80 power attack. That is boring. SO what if they Use Shuckle WIth Rest. I did it, and yeah it takes awhile, but if you would rather be boring and do the same thing as everyone else, then don't complain because people like to break the monotany. You should welcome the challenge. I do.

[Doctor Unne]

post deleted

[DsFreak]

Once again, this isnt r/b/y but there is also mind reader. And for rest and **** mind reader fissure is my favourite. And to make in unstoppable like i have on my crystal, Umbreon with Mean Look and baton Pass, to my Poliwrath with Mind Reader and Fissure. As long as it isn't flying and can't kill umbreon by the time it switches (high speed so usally on chance, never happens) or my Poliwrath by the time it can mind read fissure (realitivly fast speed, some pokemon can get two chances too kill) I can kill any pokemon. As for DT being "banned". Wow. That is just dumb. No offence, Pokemon is an RPG! RPGs are very luck based. D & D had some dice rolls if i recall :). But in that case so many moves should be banned. All the one hit KOs have like a 25% hit to kill anything, that is extreme luck, so are alot of moves. If you cant make a team that can counter a simple DT, re think your team.

[Doctor Unne]

I changed my mind on the 1-evader/1-ohko'er thingy. My research has shown that any number of these moves in and of themselves are not overpowering to a team that has any one or two of many possible counters for each one. Gotta-have-an-antievader-and-an-antiOHKO'er is really no worse than gotta-have-a psy.

Haze is the only 100% effective, but not the only counter to evade moves. Toxic works (Hey look! poison types are useful but not overpowering as evaders cuz they aren't susceptible[sp?] to the most widely-available evade counter). Leech seed works. Toxic+Leech seed works fast. Swift+Swords Dance works excellently against DT+Rest. Mirror Move+Swift works decently, especially with Agility; this basically results in your opponent either switching out or boosting your pokemon's evasion and getting thier own KO'd. Besides, as someone else on this thread already mentioned, evaders are more or less sitting ducks until they've used 3 or 4 DT's. Farfetch'd and Porygon are good as DT users (since thier stats are so low) and counters (since they're the only Swifters that get STAB and attack boosters.) Porygon takes twice as long to power up but has higher stats (except speed) and Recover.

OHKO's hit as often as Thunder misses. But thier hit rate is reduced to zero if the target is faster than the user. Agility, String Shot, Thunder Wave, Stun Spore, and Glare render opponents' OHKO's useless. Dugtrio is useful...super fast Fissurer that can't be Thunder Waved, and can use Rock Slide on fliers. Trio's still pretty good at getting itself KO'd though.

I still say only handicapped teams should have access to ubers though.

[Dakota123]

Are you actually r-tarded or something? Where did I say that only attacking moves were fair. Effective use of status effects, stat-ups, etc are part of being good at this. Using Double Team a few times and hoping that they never hit you is not skill.

Its also worth mentioning that on all online Battling communities, these moves are generally accepted as ceap and their use is frowned upon to the degree that people will refuse to play you if you are using them. Much like a YGO player refusing to play someone who will not take Chaos Emperor Dragon out of his/her deck.

If you want to win through getting lucky, then go ahead. But don't expect people to humor you.


ouch CED hurts like crazy and most people don't like playing against DT/Minimize but you can do what ever you want if they don't want you to use it then just don't battle them