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View Full Version : The Long Debated Topic, Jiraiya and Itachi


Hemostrat
11-18-2006, 09:09 PM
This debate has been going back and forth probably since it first happened during the Return of Itachi arc, who is the stronger of the two? To start with, I personally think Itachi is stronger.

The reason that almost everyone says that Jiraiya is greater than Itachi comes from page 9 of chapter 144.

Kisame: "You can fight how and where you want, but I don't know... the time is wrong."
Itachi: "Ah. To meet those two and kill them. It's a good place to fight. So they can't augment the number of people they have."
Kisame: "It was good that we found him at the Ramen shop. But he's protected by one of the legendary three ninjas. That guy might be a match for the first of the leaf and one of the mist's seven strongest."
Itachi: "Ah, but... It's said that every strong man has a weakness"

Where Kisame says that "that guy" (he doesn't refer who it is directly, but right before saying that he does say one of the Legendary Sannins so logic would go to say that he's talking about Jiraiya)

But isn't Orochimaru suppose to be stronger than Jiraiya and Itachi is said to be stronger than Orochimaru therefore Itachi should be stronger than Jiraiya?

The quote that Itachi said can be interupted by saying that Jiraiya is stronger than him, or that Naruto is. A Kyuubi-fied Naruto and a Sannin is stronger than Itachi and Kisame. When Naruto started concentrating his Kyuubi chakra Kisame looked over in shock, and Itachi in even more shock.

Also, at the time Itachi had already used the Mangekyou Sharingan, which would seem to use up about 30% of his chakra supply. Along with the fact that Itachi wanted to take Naruto as silently as possible and not attract attention to himself. Given those two facts, defeating Jiraiya would become much more of a problem. Killing someone is one thing, taking someone without anyone noticing while being guarded by a legend is another.

Kisame stated that Jiraiya would take both of them (and Itachi wasn't at full power), Itachi said no such thing. I'll admit Jiraiya probably is very close to Itachi's level but he isn't at it. Itachi isn't one for un-needed bloodshed and doesn't want to do more than he has to. If that were the case, Asuma would have died much earlier than chapter 328

Another point in case against Itachi is that he and Kisame ran away when Jiraiya came. Well, a Sannin is not to be taken lightly, and Jiraiya had been missing in action since Orochimaru left Konoha. How could they tell how powerful he really was? Better to be safe than sorry when you're life could be on the line no? If a jutsu is said to kill you, and that no one has ever gotten out of it, wouldn't it be easier to run away than kill the person who did the jutsu? That way you know you'll come out alive.


"Why did we retreat...? ...You should have been able to..."
"Since Naruto isn't too powerful, there is no need to hurry. And also, I need to find a place to take a rest. Not only did I use Tsukiyomi... I even had to use Amaterasu."

Chapter 148 page 7


Itachi isn't one to make excuses, after he used the Mangekyou Sharingan for the third time his eyes went back to normal, not back into Sharingan, but back to normal. Now after he used it just once on Kakashi Kisame said: "However, Itachi-san you should be carful since the "eye" is dangerous to you as well..." (chapter 142 page 18). If you're incredible low on chakra, don't know how strong your opponet actually is and know that your mission has basically failed (He was suppose to take Naruto quielty) then what choice do you have but to run?

Akatsuki
11-19-2006, 12:12 AM
I think Itachi is still stronger than Jiraya, because, at the time the Itachi and Kisame went for Naruto, Itachi had already used Bunshin Explosion (Don't know what it's called in japanese), and Tsukyomi, along with countering Kurenai's Genjutsu. So, he was very low on power, and Chakra, which is why he said that.

ZanarkandAce
11-19-2006, 12:59 AM
The real thing is, we don't know. While I would like to lean one way or the other officially, nothing can really be set in stone till it's said outright.

Though, I think that due to the facts, Jiraiya would be stronger, as he's a Sannin. Someone like that doesn't get the name for nothing. While ITachi did take out all of the Uchiha clan by himself, he isn't a sannin. Believe that this thread will turn into a flame war if you are not careful. Please, respect other's beliefs if they are well based. Don't cut anyone down because they believe that one is stronger than the other.

That is all.

Green Koolaid
11-19-2006, 08:45 AM
Jiraiya is stronger imo. He has experience and power on his side, way more ep than itachi. That to me will tip the scale greatly.

bloodbath135
11-19-2006, 09:20 AM
well i would have to go with saying itachi has the upper hand, as eveyone already know orochimaru admits that itachi is stronger than he is, and jirayia has been on orochimarus case for to many years to count now, i mean if jirayia was stronger than itachi, than he should have no problem beating orochimaru, but as yall can see, he hasnt yet

Minato Namikaze
11-19-2006, 12:39 PM
that cause orochimaru always runs away like a little girl when people gang up on him

Obi Qai Gin
11-19-2006, 12:47 PM
It's also because Jiraiya has basically washed his hands of Orochimaru. Remember, they were friends at one time. Jiraiya didn't have the heart to kill him when Orochimaru first left Konoha. I think now he still doesn't have the taste for it, and has quite frankly grown to ignore him.

Shugotenshi Kintaro
11-19-2006, 05:09 PM
Jiraiya is stronger. I could go into long discussions about it, but look at it this way.

Kisame and Itachi didn't want to fight him together, as the best case senario would be a death draw. And since Kisame is nowhere near weak, it's foolish to think that Itachi at full strength alone would be equal or stronger than Kisame at full strength with Itachi slightly/moderately tired.

Anyone who thinks that, well... you clearly need to think about how you preceive things as a whole in any aspect in life. No offense, but it's just clear to see.

And I'm not saying Itachi's a weakling at all, but I do think he's a bit over-rated. He's just not some over-powerful character. He's clearly between a high level Jounin like Kakashi and a Sennin.

And just as a little clear up, I don't think Itachi's stronger that Orochimaru. Oro didn't go after Itachi cause he was too strong to control, not too strong to defeat. Big difference there.

Miatsu_Tyler955
11-19-2006, 06:33 PM
Ok. We have no clue how strong people are. Out of all of these people we have see Oro fight the most. The one time we did see Orochimaru fight any of the sannin everyone but Tsunade had a handicap. When Itachi fought Jonin in the leaf He was at full power but foolishy did a mangekyuo sharigan on kakashi. And if Itachi is such a bad ass ninja He wouldn't have had to run away. when Jiraiya had him. He had alreayd faile the mission when Jiraya had caught him. If he was soo powerful he would hae satyed and fought. Also additional comment I wanna see a Gaiden for the Three Sannin.

Odama123
11-20-2006, 04:48 AM
when itachi ran away it wasn't because he was weaker. he already used 3 bloodline justus and he had almost no chakra left. If he fought Jiryia he wouold have gotten killed. i doubt kisame is as strong as itachi or even close

Miatsu_Tyler955
11-20-2006, 05:43 PM
when itachi ran away it wasn't because he was weaker. he already used 3 bloodline justus and he had almost no chakra left. If he fought Jiryia he wouold have gotten killed. i doubt kisame is as strong as itachi or even close
I achi wouldn't have got killed it was a body double of him at only 30%

Obi Qai Gin
11-20-2006, 06:57 PM
You're^ talking about the wrong situation.

`Phenom
11-20-2006, 07:11 PM
I think that Jiraiya is the strongest. In fact, I think he is the strongest of the Sannin as well.


I achi wouldn't have got killed it was a body double of him at only 30%
Hes talking about when Itachi and Kisame went after Naruto in the hotel and Jiraiya saved him, not the Gaara Rescue battle.

yugi12319
11-20-2006, 07:13 PM
pervy sage right he coooool

99TourGuides
11-20-2006, 07:45 PM
pervy sage right he coooool
Wow. Thank you for that totally insightful post.

There's no way to know for sure at this point since Itachi had used up a large amount of chakra when he was about to encounter Jiraiya with Kisame. So we don't know what the result would be if Jiraiya went head-to-head with Itachi alone with both their chakra at max.

Though I think the inclusion of Kisame makes up for the fact that Itachi had used up a lot of chakra, eading me to believe Jiraiya is stronger, but we really can't decide that yet.

Miatsu_Tyler955
11-20-2006, 07:58 PM
You're^ talking about the wrong situation.
I am sure the leader of Akatsuki always uses body doubles. especially since Itachi stated that Naruto wasn't much of a chalenge. He wouldn't eed his full power only a body double. Simple Logic

`Phenom
11-21-2006, 01:02 PM
I am sure the leader of Akatsuki always uses body doubles. especially since Itachi stated that Naruto wasn't much of a chalenge. He wouldn't eed his full power only a body double. Simple Logic
But you are wrong.

99TourGuides
11-21-2006, 04:38 PM
I am sure the leader of Akatsuki always uses body doubles. especially since Itachi stated that Naruto wasn't much of a chalenge. He wouldn't eed his full power only a body double. Simple Logic
If it was a body double trying to kidnap Naruto, then how did the body double use Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu?

Miatsu_Tyler955
11-21-2006, 04:51 PM
Good point I say magic.

Hemostrat
11-21-2006, 06:36 PM
I just finished a three page debate on another board and we just gave up, argreeing that we wouldn't be able to change each other's minds though he never really disproofed the facts I layed down for him so technially I bested him ;)