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View Full Version : Universal Trading Forum Rules & FAQ. YOU MUST READ THIS BEFORE POSTING IN THIS FORUM


WildWill
01-06-2005, 01:44 PM
Welcome to the Pojo Trading Committe forum.

If after reading this entire post, you still have questions, read the "FAQs about trading on Pojo.com" Post.

DO NOT PRIVATE MESSAGE ANY MEMBER OF THE POJO TRADING COMMITTEE WITH A REF SCAM OR ANY OTHER TRADING ISSUE POST IT HERE ACCORDING TO THE RULES IF you do so, your message will be ignored and deleted. We are traders too, and we don't need our boxes filled with questions.

Due to the large number of requests for feedback removal, we the moderators of Pojo.com have decided to form a trading committee whose intent shall be to oversee any and all user issues regarding trading on Pojo.com

Our main concern is to have a uniform response to common issues, and to also quickly investigate any anomalies in trading, such as ref scamming, ripping off other members, and leaving negative references. This committee will have the sole authority to make decisions regarding the banning of users, the prohibitions of trading and any other disciplinary actions as a result of trading on Pojo.com.

The committee will investigate all credible instances of Pojo users' wanting their negative feedbacks removed as a result of fraudulent feedbacks. As a group, we will meet to discuss which users are eligible for feedback removal, as well as any other issues you may have with trading.

If you ripped someone off, did not want to follow the ref rules, or had your negative feedback placed by a moderator, do not request a feedback removal; you will not get one.



If you have any trading issues or questions, post them here according to the rules LISTED BELOW.

If you feel that you received an unjust negative feedback, want to remove a feedback you posted, want to find out about your trading partner, etc, we will be happy to investigate the circumstances.


Start a new thread in this forum including:

* Link to your trading partners' user profile & trading rating.
* Link to the thread where the trade was agreed. (This is REALLY important, do not forget it).
* Reason(s) why you are posting.

If you follow this format, we will look into the matter. If you do not include this information, we will delete your thread, or ignore you. It is also EXTREMELY important that your post be CLEAR, CONCISE and LEGIBLE. If we have to spend more than 10 seconds trying to figure out what you are saying, your post will be deleted and we will move on.


ADDITIONALLY - Negative Feedbacks, if earned, will not be removed for just any old reason. If you get a negative feedback because you failed to send your end to your partner after a reasonable amount of time, then you send finally, and they receive, guess what? You STILL have a negative feedback. They aren't coming off. The ONLY way they will be removed is if there is a CLEAR error, abuse of the system, or a complete misunderstanding. Just asking for one to be removed doesn't get it. The feedback system is in place to help people make good decisions about who they trade with. Negative feedback is one way to ensure that happens.


Once you have posted your information you will most likely be asked to forward the PMs where the negotations were completed to one of the moderators on the PTC. Do not forward these PMS until ASKED TO DO SO by a WILLING moderator

DO NOT PM ANY PTC MODERATOR UNTIL ASKED TO DO SO. Do NOT PM me or any other PTC Moderator asking us to remove a ref, or complain about a ripper. We want everything POSTED IN THIS FORUM FOR A REASON (so that we have a track record of what's been going on). Any unsolicited PM to a PTC moderator that is about trading will be deleted and ignored.. I can't tell you HOW many times I have gotten a PM about a trade issue, and I simply delete it. I won't even BOTHER reading them these days. If you have a trade issue, post it here. DO NOT PM ME.


Additionally, any spam, bumping or other funny business in this forum WILL result in instant temp bannings without warnings. DO NOT POST IN ANY THREAD THAT DOES NOT INVOLVE YOU DIRECTLY. You will be temp banned for at least one day if you do. This is not a discussion forum.

Please also remember, that above and beyond everything here, Pojo is not responsible for the trades that you make. We make our very best efforts to make trading on Pojo.com a pleasant and enjoyable experience for everyone, however, we know that there are a few bad apples out there.


Trading Rules:
The same rules apply to every forum regardless of game involved. There are some rules that do only apply to individual forums, so make sure you check the Universal Trading Rules thread in each individual forum before you start your thread.



Trading Forum Rules for ALL Forums

If you want to trade on Pojo.com, you MUST follow these rules. The Pojo.com trading committee reserves the right to prohibit ANY user from trading any commodity for failure to follow these rules.

Before we get started - a quick note - Trading here is a PRIVILEGE, not a God Given Right, and management reserves the right to revoke that privilege for any user for any reason.

0. OUR RULES TRUMP YOUR RULES. You can put rules on your trade thread, like "I won't send overseas" or the like, but in EVERY CASE, these Universal Trading Forum Rules trump yours. NO MATTER WHAT. Don't like our rules? Don't trade here. We won't miss you, I assure you of that.

1. To start your own trading thread, YOU MUST post a full list of haves and wants. In order to trade you do not have to have a list of haves and wants, if you don't want to start your own thread. But if you want your own thread, it MUST have a full haves/wants list. And not just one or two cards on either. This is a TRADING forum, do some trading. If you do not post a full haves/wants list you can count on your thread being locked and or deleted. The reason for this is that we are trying to save on resources. If you don't post a full haves/wants list you tax our resources. If for whatever reason you don't want to post a full list, you can still trade, you just can't start your own thread.

2. REFERENCES – Whoever has fewer references sends first. What’s a reference? It’s a number that determines how many different people you have traded with successfully. It shows how trustworthy you are. Face it, trading on the internet is risky, there's a chance you won't get what you have been promised. But with the reference system in place, you can be relatively assured that if you're trading with someone with a high rating you'll get your cards. Now, does that mean you shouldn't trade with someone with a low rating? No, but it does mean you should exercise extreme caution when doing so. And if someone with very few posts and a decent trader rating PMs you to make a deal, be wary, because they most likely want to rip you off.

Your trader rating is the little clickable number underneath your name. Each user starts with ZERO, and it can go up (or down) depending on the trades you make. The Trader Rating is a system designed to work just like Ebay’s reference system. If you make a trade, when you receive your cards, you leave a positive feedback for your trading partner. If something went wrong in your trade, you may leave a neutral or negative feedback, but if you do, you must be prepared to accept a neutral or negative feedback in return.

THERE ARE NEW UPGRADES TO THE TRADER RATING SYSTEM THAT FURTHER LINK YOUR TRADES TO EACH OTHER. When you leave a trade rating, there is now a button on that rating for your trade partner to ref you! Also, traders trying to ref each other from the same IP Address will be caught MUCH EASIER. I'm not going to give out how, but rest assured if you try to ref scam, you WILL be caught. Finally, new users only have a certain number of references they can give in a day. Don't ask me what that number is, 'cause even if I knew I'd have to kill you. As more features get added we'll tell ya.

2a. EXISTING REFERENCES – Because we implemented the trading rating system AFTER the creation of this message board and most users already HAD an existing number of references in many forums, we combined all the existing references into one master list, which can be found HERE: Master Trading Pojo References List. In order to determine who sends first you need to calculate your TOTAL references. You do that by finding your name on the master list (use Control F if necessary), and adding that number to your current number of references. For example, at the time of this writing I have 27 references on the master list (note, your rating on the master list WILL NOT EVER CHANGE), and I currently have 19 on the new system for a total of 46 references (27+19=46). I would send first to anyone with 47 references or more, and anyone with 46 references or less would send first to me. THERE IS NO GETTING AROUND THIS RULE. YOU CANNOT FORCE SOMEONE TO SEND FIRST, unless you have more references then they do. Anyone found with a rule on thier list saying "I won't send first" or "You send first" will have their thread automatically locked, and you won't be able to trade for a while.

2b. The BAD LIST – Unlike the Master-List, the Badlist CAN be changed when necessary. Once you are on the Bad List, you can NOT be taken off, except in extraordinary circumstances. If you plan to trade with someone on this list, that USER MUST send first, with no exceptions.

ONLY moderators can place a user on The Bad List and we will requires a higher standard of proof for someone being placed on the Bad List. Most of these will also get you banned, but for some minor offenses we may not ban the user, just forbid them from trading.

The following can get you put on the Bad List (but is by no means the ONLY ways you can get put on the bad list)
*Stealing cards (getting cards sent to you and not sending back, also known as Ripping)
*Sending fake cards
*Giving an address that is not your own
*False references (this includes leaving refs when no trading has occurred)
*Impostering (trying to pose as someone else that has a good reputation)
*Repeatedly refusing to send first when you have fewer references
*Repeatedly violating these Universal Trading Forum rules.

2C. Negative References: YOU MAY NOT FORCE USERS WHO HAVE NEGATIVE REFERENCES TO SEND FIRST. That means no rules such as "If you have negative references you send first." in your rules listing. EXCEPTION: If a moderator on the trading committee gives you a negative reference that says "THIS USER SENDS FIRST UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE". That particular user ALWAYS sends first until that notice is removed.

You MAY have a rule such as "I WILL NOT TRADE WITH TRADERS WHO HAVE NEGATIVE REFERENCES" or "I WILL NOT TRADE OVERSEAS", that is fine. But you cannot blanketly make users with negative references to send first. For example: User "ILOVEYGO" starts a trade thread and has 12 references in the new system and none on the master list. User "IHEARTDBZ" has 2 references on the master list and 14 total on the new system, but actually has 15 positive and 1 negative reference making a total of 14. The first user would still send first because he only has 12, whereas the second user has 16.

Anyone found stating "YOU SEND FIRST IF YOU HAVE NEGATIVE REFERENCES" or failing to follow the ref rule will lose their trading priviledges for a period of one week on first offense. Longer on multiple offenses.

2d. REF SCAMMING. What is ref-scamming? That's where you either a) make up multiple accounts in order to give references to one account to increase your trader rating, or b) have your friends give you references for trades you made without Pojo being involved, or that don't exist at all. In either case, if you are caught ref-scamming, you can guarantee that you will be banned. There are several moderators on the PTC who hate ref-scammers, and if it goes to a vote of the PTC, it won't go your way.

Ignorance of the rules is no excuse. If we hear "I didn't know it was wrong" you'll be banned just like everyone else. Trades you make in person DO NOT add to your credibility when doing trades on the internet. So...words to the wise, if you do a trade on Pojo, KEEP TRACK of the proof. We may ask to see it, and if you don't have it, it will be assumed that it never existed. And then you'll be SOL. You can download your private messages to a text file. You can keep track of your trade threads.

In order to get and receive a VALID trader reference on Pojo.com, ALL negotiations should be done on POJO, either in the thread itself, or via Private Message. Negotiations done on other chatting services such as AIM, or MSN will not be valid for proof of a trade done on Pojo. This is VERY cut and dry here people, these rules are in existence now and forever, so ignorance is no excuse.

3. How to Package and Ship your cards. YOU MUST SEND YOUR CARDS IN A TOP-LOADER. They are cheap and easy to find, and will protect cards in the mail. If you don't, you will earn negative references from your peers. Padded envelopes are optional, but recommended. I try to use them on all my trades, and I recycle them as well by using the ones people send me over again. I use plenty of shipping tape and staples to make sure they stay closed. You may use Delivery Confirmation at your discretion. If you have valuable cards, I would recommend it. In addition, insurance is VERY CHEAP. When you’re doing a high value trade (pretty much anything worth $20 or more), it’s almost a prerequisite.

3a. I didn't send with enough postage. Can I back out of the trade?
NO, Absolutely NOT! In fact what you should do is include something to compensate your partner for the added time it's going to take to get them their cards. We are getting a LOT of people who claim that they haven't put on enough postage lately. THAT'S LAME. Postage scales cost a whopping $12-15 bucks. If you do a lot of trading BUY ONE. The U.S. Postal Service has a GREAT website that lets you calculate the cost of shipping ANY package. Not enough postage is not a viable excuse, it just means you're lazy.

4. Each user is allowed ONE active trading topic at a time, and may only start ONE new topic each week. This is in force now for EVERY trading forum, not just the YGO trade forum. The reason being is that the trade forums get highly clogged up with multiple lists that say the same thing. If you are found to have more than one active topic started within a seven day period, you will have all of your topics locked or deleted, and you will be prohibited from starting a new topic for a period of at least 7 days. If you break that prohibition you will be temp banned for at least 3 days. If you keep doing it, you will be permanently banned.

5. VERY IMPORTANT - BUMPING is no longer an issue because our software automatically merges duplicate posts together. Don't worry about it any longer, unless you specifically post "Bumping up" or something like that, and are not responding to any offer on your thread. That will still get you in trouble.

6. NO SALE ONLY TOPICS. NO AUCTIONS - You may no longer post "Sell Only" topics in the Trade Forums. Pojo pays a lot of money to keep these forums running, and it isn't fair that people waste his bandwidth making money for themselves. This includes "I'm getting out of the game, selling all cards!" topics. Simultaneous trading/selling on your trade list is fine, as long as selling isn't your primary goal (There's Ebay for that). We have a ZERO Tolerance policy on this. You may do some selling with your trading, but you may not be doing mostly selling or all selling. You MUST be doing SOME trading. And if you think you’re going to get around the rule by having only a few high end wants that no one is going to have, you’re quite mistaken. If you are caught doing an auction or having a sell-only topic, you will be punished. We pay good money for these boards, and it really cheeses us off when we're abused like that. So if you're caught, accept the consequences and move on, because if you whine about it, you're likely to find yourself not being able to trade here at all.

There are to be NO AUCTIONS OF ANY KIND. That includes auctions for money or bidding on a card with other cards.

Additionally, there is to be no selling of Heroclix or Versus cards on Pojo.com. PERIOD.

7. DO NOT post your address or other personal information in this forum. Conduct your final negotiations via email or PM, so that you have a record, AND KEEP THOSE EMAILS OR PMS UNTIL THE DEAL IS FINISHED. Everyone has a 50 PM limit, however, you can DOWNLOAD your PMs to your hard drive, so saying "I deleted the PMS" is no excuse. I HIGHLY recommend that you get and verify an outside email address, and not rely on Pojo for your only form of communication with your trading partners. DO NOT ASK FOR SOMEONE's EMAIL ADDRESS AFTER THE FACT. GET IT UP FRONT AND VERIFY IT.

8. POJO.Com takes no responsibility for the trades that you decide to make.

9. All other forum rules apply here, no spamming, no bashing, flooding, etc.

10. What constitutes a trade? - Recently, it has come into question as to when a trade is official. We thought it would be wise to set up some guidelines -- because if someone has second thoughts before the end of the trade, and the trade isn't confirmed, a neutral or negative feedback is not appropriate. Therefore, the following must occur before a trade is official:

*Exchange of Address

*Confirmation on the deal by both sides
Example: Person A says "I'll trade you my non-mint Don Zaloog for your Goblin Attack Force".
Person B says "Okay".

*Confirmation on who is sending first, and any shipping options
Example:
Person A says "I have 12 refs, you have 8. You would be sending first."
Person B says "I'll send out tomorrow."

Shipping options example:
Person A says "I need those cards by Saturday...is it possible for us to both send Priority Mail?"
Person B says "I don't need the cards that quickly...but if you reimburse me, I'll send. You can either send me cash, or throw in that D. D. Warrior Lady."
Person A says "I'll add the D D Warrior Lady."

As with most rules, there are exceptions:
*If you post that you'll make a trade, and the other person accepts, and the other person IMMEDIATELY backs out, as if joking or taunting, that's illegal, and will probably get you temp banned.
*If you exchanged addresses, and agreed on a deal, but one trader tries to back out because they would have to send first, that's a breach of the rules, and you may leave a neutral or negative feedback accordingly.

Remember, we are not responsible for the trades you make. Common Sense should dictate your actions. CHECK YOUR TRADING PARTNER'S Reference RATINGS YOURSELF! GET AN EMAIL ADDRESS when you trade so that you can contact that person outside of the board if need be. We do our best to make sure that our members don't get ripped off, but sometimes it's not enough, so make sure you protect yourself.


Do not EVER EVER post your email address or your home address on a public message board. Especially this one.

Don't trade something you can't afford to lose until you have built up a trust with your trading partner

Finally, have fun and Happy Trading!

SPECIAL NOTE - Do NOT break the 1 Trade thread a week rule. It really gets us mad and you don't want us mad. It makes more work for all of us mods, and it basically puts you on our watch list. If you break the ONE TRADE THREAD PER WEEK RULE, you will lose all trading privileges for one week. Temp bans will be issued if you persist.

The Moderators

WildWill
01-06-2005, 01:54 PM
If after reading this entire post, your question still hasn't been answered, you may post it in the Q&A thread (http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=253873), and a PTC Mod, and only a PTC Mod will give you a definitive answer.

Users, ONLY THE PTC MODS are to answer questions in this thread. Any user found answering a question or posting the answer to a question will be banned for one day. This is not a discussion forum. This is a place to get OFFICIAL ANSWERS, not speculation or wrong answers.

Multiple offenders will find their trade priviledges taken away, or banned completely. Not kidding around.

Frequently Asked Questions AND Answers




This post represents several HOURS worth of work on my part, I tried to have every possible situation covered here. I utilized the almost 900 posts in the previous Q&A thread to create these FAQs. If you post a question that is answered here already and you ask it anyway, it will be deleted. THESE are considered to be an extension of the Universal Trading Forum Rules

Your Trade Thread and Making the Deal

Q: To post a new thread, does it have to be exactly 7 days since my last thread?

A: It must be exactly 7 days or longer. If we see even an HOUR difference you will get your thread locked, as we have a zero tolerance for this.

Q: Can we post "Not trading with anyone with a Negative Reference" on our topics or is that against the Ref Rules?

A: Yes, you have the right to say you won’t trade with anyone who has a negative reference. What you cannot do is make them send first.

Q: By that token, can we post “Not trading with anyone overseas or in Canada?”

A: Yes, you have the right to determine where you are going to trade to. But, again, you cannot make ANYONE send first from any country, unless you have more references than they do.

Q: When is the deal confirmed?

A: When addresses are exchanged. Once you give your partner your address, you have created a contract that you are mailing certain items to them in exchange for their items. Once both addresses are exchanged, the contract is confirmed.

Q: My partner wants to back out, except that addresses have been exchanged. What can I do?

A: If addresses are exchanged, then your partner would be breaking his contract. You may leave them a neutral or negative reference. BUT be sure to keep your PMs regarding this deal, because more likely than not, they will retaliate and leave you a negative as well. The only way your negative can be removed is with the proper PM evidence.

Q: My trading partner suddenly wants to change the trade, after addresses have been exchanged. Can they do that?

A: NOPE. Absolutely not. If someone tries to change the deal after addresses have been exchanged, then you have the right to cancel the deal and negative ref them. KEEP TRACK of all your PMs regarding that trade just in case.

Q: What does it mean when "MOD'S please lock this thread...." is written on the top of a thread

A: Every user is limited to one active thread per week per trade forum. After a week, they are allowed to start a new one, but just to make sure their other one doesn't stay active, users post "Mods lock (close off from posting) my latest trade thread.

Q: I'm making a trade with someone, but he put down his username rather than his actual name to send to. Is that OK?

A: Yes. Some users send me their Pojo name on the envelope instead of their real name. It doesn't make any difference to me. However, if you are sending using Delivery or Signature confirmation, you will need to get a real name, no matter what.

Q: I just want to get rid of my Yugioh collection. can I do that if that’s all I'm going to do or does there have to be a trade to go with it?

A: If you're getting rid of your entire collection you'll need to do it elsewhere, unless you want to trade for it. There's a specific rule against selling only.

Q: If your trading Japanese cards you had to specific that they were Japanese cards? I'm asking this is because there is a user here who is trading his Japanese royal decree as if it's a tp decree. I think that that is very misleading and shouldn't be allowed. when I asked him if it was English or Japanese all he said was does it say "tp" next to it. he also said if no one ask then he won't say anything. that is not cool man and total BS.

A: Yeah, language/edition should always be specified for pretty much every game. I know I’D be PISSED if someone traded me cards in another language.

Q: Where would put my thread up in if I'm trading both Magic and YuGiOh? Would I put it in the section where I have the most to trade? or the Section where I want more?

A: Up to you. I would put it in whichever game I wanted the most.

Q: Would I be able to put up a friend or a sibling’s trade list on my trade thread?

A: No. Tell them to start their own account. YOUR trade thread must include CARD YOU OWN and no one else’s.

Q: Some people say that they want points like 100 for a secret rare how do I get those points?

A: They are using a point system to denote how much they value commons. For example, a secret rare might be worth 100 points. A common is worth 1 (or less). So in order to get that secret rare from the person, you have to trade him 100 commons. There is no official point system, and any trader can value their commons more or less than another.

Q: Isn't there a rule about not allowing to advertise things on your list that you don't have in hand yet?

A: There is NOW! If it’s incoming, then note it as “Incoming”. If you don’t want to trade it (i.e. it’s decked), then DO NOT PUT IT ON YOUR HAVES LIST. Anyone caught with items marked NFT or Not for Trade on their list will have their threads locked.

Q: Is there a rule about really rare and expensive cards and proof of ownership?

A: YES! If you have a VERY expensive and rare card, such as a Shonen Jump Championship winning card (I.E. the slabbed Cyber-Stein), and you want to list it for trade, you MUST be able to prove you actually own the card. A photo of you holding the card would be all that’s needed if you are questioned. This is to prevent people from listing VERY expensive cards as an enticement to get you to read their thread. And yes some moron actually did try to put an SJC Cyber-Stein on their trade thread without having the card.

Q: Is it acceptable to post age restrictions in your trading rules? (i.e. I won't trade with anyone under the age of 18).

A: We don't really have a problem with that. It's just going to be up to you to enforce it, because we're not going to.

Q: I've noticed traders who work together and trade from one binder (team binder)...Is this allowed?

A: No, absolutely not, you may only trade your OWN cards.

Q: What’s the Japboishi rule?

A: FOR THE LAST TIME - The Japboishi rule is no longer in effect on this board. It does not concern you and is now irrelevant. Don’t worry about it.



Buying and Selling Cards

Q: Does buyer sent first or seller sent first.

A: Doesn't matter who the buyer or seller is, whomever has less refs sends first. We don't like buying and selling on our site, so we really don't care. At least I don't care.

Q: I am currently buying one card from a certain individual because we couldn't agree on what cards to trade so instead I'm buying but does the rule still apply that I send first since I'm buying from him?

A: Ref rules apply no matter what the case.


Escrow and Mod Trades

Q: What is the official rule on escrow or mod trades

A: There really is no official rule. If you want an official Escrow trade, with the best guarantee that you'll get your cards, do it with a moderator. If you escrow with anyone else on the board, that's entirely up to you, but don't come whining to us if you get ripped. There is now a thread in the PTC forum for moderators who are willing to take an escrow trade, and for users to request one.


Shipping Items

Q: Are you supposed to send the cards through first class mail or in a box you drop off at the post office?

A: I think your asking us "what type of envelope or box you should use?" if this is the case then the answer is you can use a envelope or box because it doesn't matter. the only thing you have to do is put the card in a top loader and tape it shut. taping it shut is to prevent the card from sliding out and also to keep water out too.

Q: Do I have to use Top-Loaders? And where can I find them?

A: A top loader is a plastic hard case which you can place a card (or cards) in. The general size for top loaders is 3" by 4". You should be about to get some from your local card shop and even places like Wal-Mart carry them. Ultra Pro sells them in bulks of 25 or more, but some other companies sell them in smaller packages. You can also buy them on eBay. Top loaders are really, REALLY cheap. You can get them for like as cheap as 5 cents each in some cases and yes, you HAVE to use them. (Unless your trading Heroclix or Pirates or something else that won’t fit in a top-loader…duh). If you don’t use a top-loader, your trading partner has the right to neutral or negative ref you.

Q: I didn’t put enough postage on my cards and it either took forever, my partner had to pay, or they got sent back. Is that a problem?

A: YES! Be responsible enough send out your stuff with the right amount of postage. Lack of postage is NO EXCUSE. If you don’t put enough postage on your item, then you can receive a neutral or negative rating.

Q: I did a search on packaging and the only thing reasonable I could find was in Wildwill's original post in this thread: "*Bad packaging of cards, resulting in damage" .... could lead to a caution or something. And one other user uses bubble wrap or something. Is there a standard etiquette to packaging trading cards or certain way of doing it?

A: If you trade involves less than 4 cards or so - placing them in top loaders (2 to a loader with penny sleeves) and placing them in a regular envelope is considered the bare minimum. Cards by themselves or in penny sleeves alone is not acceptable packing. One SHOULD try to use bubble envelopes for larger trades and boxes for very large trades.

Personally I recycle my envelopes. Anything I get sent to me gets sent back out. It's not that I'm cheap, far from it, I'll buy new envelopes when I feel it's necessary (usually when I do a lot of selling on EBay), it's just that bubble envelopes do not break down in landfills very well, and they are a strain on the environment, so if I can get one more use out of them, I will.



Recurring Problems/Punishments

Q: Didn’t ref scammers used to get banned?

A: Yes, they did. If you were caught ref scamming up until about the beginning of 2006 you pretty much got banned. However, the board owner asked us to be a little more lenient. So now, the standard punishment for ref scamming is you lose ALL your trader ratings (even if you had some before you scammed), and you send first for 90 days AND 3 trades at the minimum. AND you receive a negative trader rating from a PTC mod that can NEVER be removed. If you get caught ref scamming a second time, you get banned.

Q: Isn't there a way we could just PM you Will to get rid of these ref scammers, instead of posting in the PTC?

A: ABSOLUTELY NOT! I do NOT want my Inbox clogged up with these things. I want them OUT in the open on the boards. Anyone who does PM me a ref scam or ANYTHING ELSE involving trading problems risks incurring my wrath. And the Wrath of Will is quite scary...mwahahaa hah ahahahahah Besides, I trade too you know, I only get 50 messages just like everyone else, my box gets clogged bad enough as it is. Start a topic here with the required information. DO NOT EVER PM A MODERATOR about a trading issue unless they ask you to do so first.

Q: If I trade with someone, and they send first, but I never receive the cards, what can I do? Is there anyway to prove I didn't receive or do I have to send their end without getting the cards I was promised?

A: If they were to send first, and you haven’t received, wait at least 30 days and then leave a negative or neutral reference.

Q: There’s a rule that says people who put rules in their thread that go against the boards’ rules get a negative reference for a certain period of time. My question is, since they have no second chances, do you just make a new thread in the PTC to report them?

A: If you feel the need to report them, use the "Report Bad Topic" button. The mods get very annoyed with the amount of users tattling on others in open forums. Stuff like that needs to be reported using the bad-topic function, where it’s MODs eyes only.

Q: I completed a trade with a user who is now banned or banned from trading. I was wondering if there is some way I can get in contact him, or if my only option since everyone else is having this problem is to file mail fraud?

A: As we have said, time and time again, when you enter a trade agreement, GET AN EMAIL ADDRESS. DO NOT RELY ON POJO to keep in contact with your trading partners for this VERY reason. We CANNOT divulge any information in our databases about ANY user, banned or not, so do not ask us to give you their email address.

Q: What happens if I’m involved in a trade with someone who just got banned from trading?

A: Once a user is permanently banned from trading, all trades they have negotiated become null and void. If they are sending out first, you may cancel the trade and refuse the mail when it comes. However, if you accept the mail, it is your obligation to send them what you promised, OR ship their cards back at your expense. Additionally, NO REFS from this transaction are allowed.

Q: If I have pending trade with someone, and then they are banned from trading for an amount of time that is not forever, must we halt the trade in mid trade? I do not want to get anyone in trouble, so I need to clarify this.

A: No. You may complete your trade. But do not start any new ones with that user. And you may not give refs to this user until the ban period is over, likewise they cannot ref you until the ban period is over.

Q: When someone who ref scammed is forced to send first throughout all trades until a given time, can they just choose to take a break from trading until then? Or, if they do have to trade, is there a certain amount of trades they must complete? And, if they don't trade, is their sending-first time extended?

A: It keeps rolling over. If they don’t trade for whatever the amount of time is, then it rolls over.

Q: I bought a card from another user, when I received it, I found it to be in far from mint condition, and a note was included: "Here's your card, I'll be waiting for your $20. You never asked for the condition, so you can't complain about that. I guess you should have read my rules." While I think this is total bull****, I read the rules again and found nothing that related to my circumstance. I am thinking that he is correct in saying I can't complain about it because in his rules he stated that if I don't ask for the condition, he assumes that I don't care. I never asked, so he assumed I didn't care. Obviously with the note, he KNEW that I would and do care. Is it against the rules to send back the card? Or was it my responsibility to ask for the condition?

A: We hate people who put on their threads "if you don't ask about condition, I assume you don't care". We really do. But there's already more rules to enforce than we can really handle. So we leave it alone. Send this paragon of virtue back his card and then neutral or negative ref him.

Q: If a card I am trading for is damaged before it reaches me (meaning that it's not in the condition as promised due to an incident before it was sent), what can I do?

A: Either ask for compensation (to make up for the damage), ask for a mint one, or accept it and leave neutral feedback. I personally go and ask for a mint one again and then ask for compensation. It's really up to you.

Q: Hey this guy contacted me to make a trade, and I know for a fact he's a ripper from another board. What do I do?

A: Don't trade with him. But the thing is, what happens on other boards is 100% irrelevant here. We cannot and will not take into account ANYTHING that doesn't happen on Pojo.


Trading Ratings and References


Q: How do I get a ref? I know about Trader Ratings and how they increase, but how do I get my ref count to increase? Thanks for all your help.

A: A “ref” is a trader rating. You get a Trader Rating by completing a trade on here. it's basically done in the mail and no person to person trading is allowed. you can not trade with people you know either. Your trading rating is your refs count. you get your refs count to increase by completing trades here online and other members leaving you a ref. there is also the old master refs list that some users still have refs on, they count towards your trading refs too. you add the ones from the master refs list if you have any and the trading rating to equal your total amount of refs

Q: How do I get master refs, or is it too late? Are those the things that I see on people's profiles that have a link that says: Refs: 22 (or whatever)

A: You don't. Master refs are refs that people gave to each other prior to the trade tracker being implemented. You can only receive refs from the trade tracker system.

Q: Is it a rule that you have trade through the mail to ref each other, or can we initiate a trade here on Pojo then trade through another form of trading, would that be allowed or considered ref scamming?

A: You MUST send through the mail if you're trading on Pojo.com. No other methods are allowed. The ref system is set up to determine how trustworthy you are in SENDING THROUGH THE MAIL. Now, that’s not to say you can’t actually trade in person, go right ahead. JUST DO NOT GIVE EACH OTHER A TRADER RATING. That’s ref-scamming, and can get you banned.

Q: If you have the same number of refs who sends first? I assume that you'd try to agree on something, but what if you can't reach to a decision? Just a hypothetical situation..

A: You both send same time, or you use a moderator as escrow.

Q: When conducting a trade with a person who has 1 or 2 refs less than you mentions their unsigned refs that they're pending on, or better yet, count their Pending refs with their total, should you send first, or not count the pending refs at all.

A: Pending refs do not count at all. Trader rating is to be compared at the time the offer is made and accepted. Not afterwards. If anyone tries to pull the "refs pending" business, please let us know ASAP and it will be dealt with in our normal severe fashion, which may include locking of threads and prohibitions on trading.

Q: Is a reference required to be left?

A: No. We cannot, and will not force anyone to leave a trading reference. If someone decides, for whatever reason, that they’re not going to leave a trader rating or reference, that’s their call. If someone doesn’t leave you a ref a gentle PM reminder to leave you a ref might help.

Q: Can you negative ref someone for they refusing to ref you?

A: No, you absolutely cannot.

Q: I've noticed people trading cards (commons, rares, w/e) off for refs. Is this allowed?

A: No, absolutely not. In order to get a trader rating SOMETHING must be exchanged, whether it’s an item, cards or cash, both parties have to send something through the mail.

Q: If the person was to send first, but the cards never got here, and the other guy keeps saying he already sent. What do I do? Since I never got the cards, would I have to send my cards out?

A: Wait 30 days, and then leave them a neutral or a negative rating. But make sure you hang on to your PMs just in case your trading partner decides to retaliate. It’s the only way you’ll get a possible negative retaliation rating removed.

Q: Say you trade with someone twice and they give you positive feedback both times. does that count as a ref? Ex: say you have 3 refs and you traded again with the same person and your trade rating does not go up. can you say that you have 4 refs or three?

A: Nope. You get a +1 for each different USER you have traded with, not each trade.

Q: Does the master list have to be enforced? You see, I'm in a scenario similar to this one: Trader A has 5 refs on the new list, Trader B has 15 refs on the trader rating system. Trader B refuses to simul-send because he/she has more "new" refs.
But Trader A has 20 refs on the Master list as well, while Trader B has 0 Master list refs. Can a simul-send be forced, or is Trader A forced to send 1st?

A: The Master Ref List is not optional. And under NO circumstances can Trader A be forced to send first. Master Refs and Feedback are your total refs, so Trader A can force Trader B to send first, but not vice-versa, and a simul-send is not appropriate.

Q: How do refs from the Edos board add into your ratings system? I have like 9 or 10 from there and I would like to know how and if they carry over before I start a post of my own.

A: They don’t and there is no ref transfers whatsoever.

Q: Can you transfer your ref. from another user name I no longer use?

A: No, there are NO ref transfers allowed

Q: I asked my trading partner if he had any refs at all and he gave me a link the to his eBay refs. Is that kosher?

A: Nope. Refs from other places make no difference. I personally have over 400 positives (with nary a negative) on EBay, but that ONLY counts for EBay, has NOTHING to do with trading on Pojo. And if someone tries to get you to send first using refs from EBay or any other message board, bring it to a PTC Mods attention.

Q: If someone contacts me offsite and asks me to sign their trader rating on this site should I post something about it?

A: Absolutely. That's a ref scam, and will get you in trouble if you do it. In that circumstance, PM a PTC Moderator (NOT Wildwill) and they will investigate.

Q: I reffed wrong person by mistake, how can I fix this?

A: Post a thread in the PTC forum with a link to your mistake and it will be taken care of.

Q: Am I allowed to ref a banned member?

A: Yes, you may ref a banned user, however, make sure they’re really “Banned”, i.e. it says “Banned User” underneath their user name. If they’re just banned from trading, getting a trade reference will cause them to be banned.

Q: I'm just wondering, do the mods here waste their time deleting neutral refs.

A: No. We don’t bother dealing with Neutrals.

Q: If you make a trade with someone and you received their end, and you can't ref them because their PM box is full, what can I do?

A: Wait until their box is empty.

Q: What’s a Referral? Someone I’m trading with stated that I had only 2 Referrals on my public profile, and because of that he states it might not be worth trading with me.

A: Referrals, which are found ONLY on your user profile, are simply how many people have referenced your user name when signing up for the board. They have no impact WHATSOEVER on trading, and they are NOT the same thing as a trader rating or reference.



Negative Reference Removal

Q: if I Download Private Messages as Text to my computer can these be use as proof if I need them in the future? its easier for me to save all my pm's this way.

A: YES, absolutely. We will ONLY accept Pojo Private Messages as evidence in any trader dispute.

Q: You know how on eBay that you can get a ref from somebody even though the transaction went bad but he/she took care of the problem. Can you do that here too? for example I’m doing a trade with somebody right now and he sent me his card but I think this is his first trade and he didn't send the card in a top loader. He lives in England too, well the card came bent and I told him I didn't want it. He wants me to ship it back and I guess I will do it but that means I didn't gain anything from this. can I still give him a ref for sending the card and can he give me a ref once he gets the card back?

A: No. Once a rating is left, it’s there for good. There are only CERTAIN circumstances where we will remove a negative. For example, if a trade was never made and you leave a negative, that will be removed. But if a bona-fide trade is made, and a negative gets left, even if the problem gets fixed, the negative stays.

Q: When a person gets a negative ref from a mod does he have to send first then?

A: Only if the reference says "this user must send first" in the negative ref, then the person must send first. Some mods weren't mods yet when we left a negative for a few people.

Q: Some one leaves positive feedback for you and they turn out to be ripper. If I leave negative feedback for them can he once again leave me a negative feedback for same trade, just to do it?

A: Retaliatory references are not allowed, however, to get it removed you must have the obligatory PMs proving that you haven’t received what you were promised.

Q: I couldn't get my negative removed because I "didn't have enough evidence..." But what evidence do I need? The guy obviously gave me a retaliator reference.

A: If you didn’t post the required evidence, or your evidence wasn’t compelling, then you’ll have to accept the negative reference. For this reason we suggest you download and keep ALL correspondence relating to the trade. ESPECIALLY if the trade involved high dollar items. Additionally only evidence from POJO or valid emails will be allowed. No MSN/AIM chat sessions. Finally, if you lose once, there’s no recounts.

Q: I just got a ref notice from someone I never traded with. What should I do?
Edit: I just realized that jerk gave me a negative ref, all I did was tell him his "misprint" card was worthless. How can I get my ref back?

A: Start a thread requesting your negative to be removed, stating you have never traded with that individual. That goes for a POSITIVE reference as well. If you have never traded with someone and you get a reference you don’t deserve, bring it to our attention via a new thread in the PTC forum IMMEDIATELY.


Rip-Offs

Q: I was wondering what do you do if you have been ripped?

A: Read the thread that says “I’ve been ripped, now what do I do?”

Q: What if someone ripped you off...with high refs...what should you do if that is the case....what kind of proof do we need to prove my case to you if that should happen?

A: The same as in all cases. However the evidence must be clear without a shadow of the doubt s/he ripped you.

Q: Would priority mail and tracking number give enough evidence?

A: Tracking and Delivery Conformation would be better. But it is a start.

Q: Can you file mail fraud in the United Kingdom (or any other country besides the United States?) And how would you do so?

A: We believe you can but we have no idea how to go about doing so. Contact your local postal service.

Q: If I see someone who is making an outrageous to good to be true offer and that person is trying to get the other person to send first, can I
request an IP check to see if they have an alias?

A: If it is someone who is trying to get you or other user's to send first, just let us know about the situation by using the Reported Bad Post link. Sometimes first time users, don’t want to send first because they don’t know they have to. Regardless, let us handle it by using the “Report bad post” link.

Q: If a user is banned and comes back under a different name is that legal? I always thought that if a user is permanently banned they can't come back under a new name

A: They will try to come back, most of our users think they’re smarter than us and will try to come back. So ALWAYS be wary of people with under 5 trader ratings who have just joined. If you see someone you believe may be a banned user who has come back, use the report-bad topic button on one of their posts or trade threads and we’ll handle it.

Q: A user and I are working on a trade, and then he mentions something about him being user a user that is now banned, and he claims he has way more references that I do. Does his "old" username count?

A: No it doesn’t not count. And if you’re negotiating a trade with someone who says they’ve been banned once already, bring it to the attention of a PTC moderator IMMEDIATELY for investigation, by either Pming them (but don’t PM Wildwill) or posting a topic. DO NOT TRADE WITH THEM under any circumstances.

Q: Ok, I was reading the master reference list and noticed that there was no banned traders list and that I was on the bad-traders so that brings up my question: am I allowed to trade?

A: If someone is dumb enough to want to trade with you, then you AUTOMATICALLY send first no matter what.

Q: After seeing how another user got someone banned for ripping him off, does that mean we can make a new thread asking for someone who ripped us off to get banned? Just wondering.

A: You can ask...however, there is no guarantee that we will vote to ban them. The user who was banned was already on the Bad-list and was a horrible user anyway...they had violations that were beyond the trade forums as it was.

Q: I was wondering if you Insured/confirmation #'d a package, and got ripped from it, what you could actually do to get it back or what compensation I can expect.

A: File mail fraud. When you use delivery confirmation and tracking then you have a much better chance of the USPS recovering something for you, and/or the ripper being convicted of a felony.


Q: Can the mods email a guy that ripped me off and got banned and ask him to send?

A: No. We have said numerous times do not let Pojo be your only source of communication

Q: If a month has passed since I've sent my end of the deal and the other person has not contacted me whether they have or haven’t gotten it yet, am I obligated to inform them that I will file mail fraud?

A: Not at all. Leave them a negative ref if you like, but no one is ever under any obligation to tell someone else they're going to file mail fraud on them.