Darth Bane the new Darth Vader JH?

[Killer_Nacho]

After playtesting Darth Bane a bit, I've found him to be much like, if not better than, Darth Vader- JH. At 82 points, he's quite a expesnive force at 82 points. But for that you get all this:

Hit Points: 200
Defense: 20
Attack: +16
Damage: 30

Special Abilities:
Double Attack On its turn, this character can make 1 extra attack instead of moving.
Jedi Hunter +4 Attack and +10 Damage against enemies with Force ratings.
Melee Attack This character can attack only adjacent enemies.
Unique

Force Powers:
Force: 2
Force Renewal 1 This character gets Force 1 each time it activates.
Lightsaber Assault Force 1, replaces attacks; Make two attacks.
Lightsaber Sweep Force 1, replaces attacks: This character can attack every adjacent enemy once.
Lightsaber Throw Force 1, replaces attacks: Attack 1 enemy within 6 squares.
Master of the Force 2 May spend Force points up to 2 times in a single turn.
Sith Rage Force 1: This character get +10 damage on all its attacks this turn.
Sith Sorcery Force 2, usable only on this character’s turn: Enemy characters within 6 squares are considered activated this round; save 11.

I've found after rigorous testing that not only can Bane take out simular costed pieces, such as Darth Vader-JH and Exar Kun, But 100+ point groups of Jedi. Here are my results.

Test 1
Darth Bane v Darth Vader, JH
Neither of these monstrosities missed. It was simply that bad. Darth Bane quickly overcame Vader due to his supreme 200 HP, some lucky iniciative rolls, and the fact he could use two Sith Rages, to bring his damage to 60 per hit (120 total), while Vader could do a mere 30 damage a hit, 90 total (criticals not included of course, if that was the case then Vader's total would be 180 and Bane's would be 240... Bane still far greater.) This was an interesting battle, to say the least, and Bane's lack of any sort of defense left hit him hard. Most of the time, DV would get his Lightsaber Block, allowing for only 60 damage dealt. Here is the plays:

Darth Bane wins iniciative, goes first.
Darth Bane's turn.
Darth Bane activates Force Renewal 1, bringing his force to 3.
Darth Bane uses Sith Rage. (Force 2)
Darth Bane uses Sith Rage. (Force 1)
Darth Bane attacks Darth Vader and hits for 60. (Vader has 80 points remanining.)
Darth Bane attacks Darth Vader, scoring a critical hit for 120.
Vader counters with Lightsaber Block, making the save to take no damage from the attack. (Vader has Force 1 now.)
Darth Vader's turn.
Darth Vader activates Force Renewal 1, bringing his force to 2.
Darth Vader attacks Darth Bane and hits for 30. (Bane has 170 points remaining.)
Darth Vader attacks Darth Bane and hits for 30. (Bane has 140 points remaining.)
Darth Vader attacks Darth Bane and hits for 30. (Bane has 110 points remaining.)
Darth Vader wins initative, goes first.
Darth Vader's turn.
Darth Vader activates Force Renewal 1, bringing his force to 3.
Darth Vader attacks Darth Bane and hits for 30. (Bane has 80 pionts remaining.)
Darth Vader attacks Darth Bane and hits for 30. (Bane has 50 pionts remaining.)
Darth Vader attacks Darth Bane and hits for 30. (Bane has 20 pionts remaining.)
Darth Bane's turn.
Darth Bane activates Force Renewal 1, bringing his force to 2.
Darth Bane activates Sith Rage. (Force 1)
Darth Bane activates Sith Rage. (Force 0)
Darth Bane attacks Darth Vader and hits for 60. (Vader has 20 points remaining.)
Darth Bane attacks Darth Vader and hits for 60.
Vader counters with Lightsaber Block, making the save to take no damage from the attack. (Vader has Force 2 now.)
Darth Bane wins initiative, goes first.
Darth Bane activates Force Renewal 1, bringing his force to 1.
Darth Bane attacks Darth Vader and hits for 40.
Vader counters with Lightsaber Block, making the save to take no damage from the attack. (Vader has Force 1 now.)
Darth Bane attacks Darth Vader and hits for 40. (Vader has 0 points remaining.)
Darth Vader is defeated.

True, Darth Bane did get lucky with the last initative roll, but Darth Vader got lucky with the THREE Lightsaber Block saves that he performed, all of them, if failed, would have killed him. The chances that he could have blocked them all is a mere 1/8 chance, the chances that Darth Bane gets a wins initative is only 1/2. Something to think about, no? True, Darth Vader is 75 points, and Darth Bane is 82. Futhermore, Vader is Imperial, a much better faction, but is that worth it? Can Darth Bane show up in the competitive 100 point or 200 point format? Only time can answer this.

TEST 1 PASSED.

Test2
Darth Bane vs Shaak Ti, Jedi Weapons Master, Jedi Padawan, then Obi Wan Kenobi, Jedi Master, Jedi Weapons Master

Darth Bane passed this near 130 point team quite easily. To make it fair, Shaak Ti, one JWM and the Padawan would first change Darth Bane, and then Obi Wan and the other JWM would join after Shaak Ti and her minions were destroyed. Darth Bane killed the first set with only 80 damage taken, and still had 2 force remaining. After that fight, he OHKOed Obi Wan after two Sith Rages (after Obi and JWM hit him once, brining his damage to 140... JWM missed once.). Unfortanutly, JWM was unable to deal the rest of the 60 damage before ultimately dying two more turns in. (How lucky can you get with Lightsaber Block?!) For the sake of time, I'm not going to write the entire battle out but you can see what happened by what I wrote above.

TEST 2 PASSED.

Test3
Darth Bane vs Darth Maul, Champion of the Sith, Darth Vader, Champion of the Sith, Darth Sidious, Dark Lord of the Sith.

I really didn't expect him to win this one, but I was yet again suprised about the results. Granted, Darth Bane didn't win, but he did kill both Darth Vader and Darth Maul. Darth Bane luckily won intiative all times in the 3 rounds, and with a few bad rolls from the enemy Dark Lords, was able to survive until round 3, after killing the two powerful Sith. Unfortantuly, at 180 damage he was unable to survive the Triple-attack deathblow from Darth Sidious, but it was still a good battle anyway.

TEST 3 FAILED.

To be fair, I further conducted each test three more times to make sure of my results. Here are the results for that.

Test1-2 passed.
Test1-3 failed.
Test1-4 passed.

Darth Vader-JH did win one, simply because he won each initiative roll and SOMEHOW kept getting Lightsaber Block each time. It should be noted though in Test 1-4 that Darth Bane OHKOed Vader after a critical hit for 120, and a failed Lightsaber Block roll.

Test2-2 passed.
Test2-3 passed.
Test2-4 passed.

Bane kept getting better each time. It looks this test was no match for him.

Test3-3 failed.
Test3-4 failed.
Test3-5 failed.

It seems Bane was unable to stand the wrath of the 3 other Sith Lords. While this is understandable, it is notable that in every test he was able to last to round 2-3 (and that's saying something with Maul instantly starting next to Bane, able to unleash his max damage of 120, with Sith Rage not including crits.) and always killed at least one of the Sith Lords, one time OHKOed Sidious.

So my question. Does Darth Bane have what it takes to survive in the 100 point format?

The 200 point?

It's up to you to decide. But as for me, I think my 100pt Darth Vader-JH army is going to be replaced by a Darth Bane army my next tourny, for further testing and hopefully some decent results. Do tell your opinions on this quite beastly data I have collected.

[Disturbed]

You should test him against shooters like a squad of Boba and Jango or Aurra maybe. A lot of people have these and also test him against Thrawn, I want to see if he's the one to stop a Thrawn squad.

[Killer_Nacho]

It should be noted that I was wrong about a ruling on Sith Rage that Sith Rage doesn't stack, however in all of my tests this fact is miniscule. (go ahead in the Test that I provided and you will clearly see that if you chaged the 60s to 50s, it doesn't change the overall result of Bane winning. Actually it just helps Bane becasue it prooves he doesn't have to spend many force points to take Vader out, something Vader does... and still loses.)

About your Thrawn idea, I will test him against that army tonight when I have extra time. But this post was asking the simple question is Darth Bane the new DV-JH, not if he was the new "200pt-squad"

Actually, this post takes more of a 100pt feel, as Darth Vader does see play in that format, too, where Thrawn is weak.

[Disturbed]

Yeah, I think he is the new and improved DV, JH. And I just want to see if he can take on anything.

[Eternal Darkness]

Personally, Darth Vader is still the True Dark Lord of the Sith. He's so much better than Bane in a lot of ways. Bane owns Vader is damage, and have those really neat Force Powers that don't replace his turn and he has Master of the Force 2.

Vader is the overall best character. 23 defense, Lightsaber Block and Deflect, 16 attack.... He can block one of Bane's attacks and only take 50, while Bane is guarenteed to almost always take 90 from Vader.

It is a good fight though.

[Killer_Nacho]

Personally, Darth Vader is still the True Dark Lord of the Sith. He's so much better than Bane in a lot of ways. Bane owns Vader is damage, and have those really neat Force Powers that don't replace his turn and he has Master of the Force 2.

Vader is the overall best character. 23 defense, Lightsaber Block and Deflect, 16 attack.... He can block one of Bane's attacks and only take 50, while Bane is guarenteed to almost always take 90 from Vader.

It is a good fight though.

Your argument is quite strong, but in my tests, Vader rarely won. Vader may be a better overall piece (this has yet to be determined, and what this post is about), but Bane > Vader in terms of a one on one match, as I've already proven.

Testing him against the Thrawn Squad, I am finding that Bane's real weakness is indeed ranged attacks. To be fair, I did not start Bane right next to his opponents like I did in the other tests. Instead, I used the original board that comes with the starter set and placed Bane against Grand Admiral Thrawn, Mas Ameda, as well as three stormtroopers and Aurra Sing. I really didn't expect him to win this one, instead push Bane's limits to see how far he could go. Combining The Stormtrooper's fire and Aurra's shots brought Bane down to around 120 by the time he got even in range. But when he did, it was pretty much a slaugther. He took two stormies out first with his Double Attack, after that Thrawn telaport Aurra to his side in place of a Stormtrooper, who Bane dispensed of next round. By this time, Bane was hurting at around 80 hitpoints left. I charged him at Thrawn and killed him in two rounds, with a mere 20 hitpoints remaining (after a sucsessful hit from Mas xP) Bane charged at Aurra next, dealing 50 to her before dying himself. It was obvious that Bane's real weakness is apparant in his lack of defense against range. With Lightsaber Deflect, Bane would be one of the best pieces in the game. He still fought considerably well, as opposed to other pieces. He was up against 97 points of enemies, 15 more than his own cost. Furthermore two of them are noted to be two of the most "Broken" pieces in the game. He still managed to slay 52 points of them before going down. Now, Imagine if I was to fill up the extra 15 points with say, some backup? Even if it was just a single unit with Cunning attack such as the Quarren Assassin? Bane wouldn't have had to waste attacks and rounds against the stormtroopers, and could focus on the bigger enimies. And if the Quarren lived, which it probally would against simple stormies, it could also focus fire on the dreaded Mas Ameda.

TEST4 FAILED.

But still pretty impressive.

[Eternal Darkness]

Yeah... If Bane has enough Force and uses Sith Sorcery along with his double on Vader then Bane totally has the edge. On Vader's half it all depends if he is feeling lucky and makes all of his saves, which is probably rare, but nonetheless, Vader is a great overall piece compared to Bane.

Bane would get eaten up by Aurra, Boba, and some ranged Bounty Hunters. Vader would stand a chance with his Armor and his LS Deflect.

[Killer_Nacho]

Yeah... If Bane has enough Force and uses Sith Sorcery along with his double on Vader then Bane totally has the edge. On Vader's half it all depends if he is feeling lucky and makes all of his saves, which is probably rare, but nonetheless, Vader is a great overall piece compared to Bane.

Bane would get eaten up by Aurra, Boba, and some ranged Bounty Hunters. Vader would stand a chance with his Armor and his LS Deflect.

I'm not arguing that at all, although usually Bane has enough for Sith Sorcery because of his Force Renewal 1, which usually means 4-5 force points when he finally clashes with Vader. This grants him to use the Sith Sorcery/Sith Rage combo twice, allowing easy advantage over Vader. I see that Vader creamates Bane in the way of ranged attacks. But the the smart Bane player uses cover to his/her advantage. Futhermore, I'm trying to build a 200-pt Bane army that includes two X-1 Viper Droids, to try and balance out the squads overall weakness to the ranged threats. After some playtesting, we will see if the squad is stable and consistant enough to hold its own. DV-JH is a great piece, and has a great faction. Bane doesn't have the great faction, but he is still a great piece none-the-less. I just hope we see more Sith in the near future, perhaps to give Bane some better support so he won't have to hire units the world of fringe.

[lordjar]

Bane is a Badass, no question.

However, should you pit him against Aurra Sing, you'll sadly find that he is just another melee jedi who cannot stand up to Aurra Sing and her devastating ranged attacks.

Bane does get a badass rating, so he isn't useless.

[DancingVader]

Bane is a Badass, no question.

However, should you pit him against Aurra Sing, you'll sadly find that he is just another melee jedi who cannot stand up to Aurra Sing and her devastating ranged attacks.

Bane does get a badass rating, so he isn't useless


Its the same with all jedi...though if u can play it right aura is toaste

[whitey216]

Yeah, I think he is the new and improved DV, JH. And I just want to see if he can take on anything.
in a 100 point game he kicks the ass he is the 100 point metta right now
but in a 200 point game a Kun teem will always win always
that is just the way it is

[Aurra_freakin_sing_4]

well for one thing sith rage doesnt work twice it just resets the first one. and when i first saw bane i knew vader was useless at this point. bane can do 100 damage every double attack or lightsaber assualt, so that beats vader very easy

[Killer_Nacho]

It should be noted that I was wrong about a ruling on Sith Rage that Sith Rage doesn't stack, however in all of my tests this fact is miniscule. (go ahead in the Test that I provided and you will clearly see that if you chaged the 60s to 50s, it doesn't change the overall result of Bane winning. Actually it just helps Bane becasue it prooves he doesn't have to spend many force points to take Vader out, something Vader does... and still loses.)

Yes, thank you, I totally didn't know that before. :rolleyes:

Also, Vader is far from useless. He is still the second best melee fighter in the game (a tad better than Exar Kun, I think.), and has a infinitely better faction.

[SwordoftheJedi]

Even though the Sith are fun to play, Vader with the Imperials still takes the cake in 200 points and is still very good in 100 point. Of course, that's just my opinion. I think the Sith are going to be the next "broken" faction.

[Killer_Nacho]

Even though the Sith are fun to play, Vader with the Imperials still takes the cake in 200 points and is still very good in 100 point. Of course, that's just my opinion. I think the Sith are going to be the next "broken" faction.

I don't think so. WOTC Rob says there are going to be less Expanded Universe in Universe, and probally in future sets.

The Sith are an Expanded Universe faction. But Rob also said that all the factions will be represented in all upcoming releases, so who knows...

[Darth Ludis]

Sith won't be broke because of the Mandalorians. If I'm not mistaken it was either Bane, Kun or Ulic Qel-Droma that have the Mandalorian bonuses but the Man. were one of the reasons the Sith fell in the days of the Old Republic so they'll probably have something to degrade the Sith faction.