Why Doesn't V-Lord/Phoenix Work?

[Black-Canary]

Why doesn't this deck type allegedly work? In theory it would be a very very strong deck type in the era of 1 for 1s. The lords are immune to sak/smashing and are only vulnerable to DDA/DDWL/DDW/BTH/Cyber/Battle which are countered by BTH/SAK/DUST/Drilloid. The deck should have a solid defense and be able to obtain plenty of tributes. This is why GK should be included. Also because phoenix wastes tremendous amounts of resources dekoichi, brain control, swords must be added. The deck should focus on getting lots of 1:1 trade offs and use the revival abilities of Phoenix and Vampire lord to create advantage and outresource your opponent. The point of this deck is to outresource your opponent over the course of time. It is because of the revival that you can win. They waste or don't use resources on your monsters because they turn into -1 for them. In addition they are a smashing ground shield. You might even be able to activate a skill drain so V-lord and Phoenix can overrun the opposition. Phoenix wipes it clean though. The final question is: Why doesn't this deck win?
It has:
* lots of m/t removal
* Immunity to the most common forms of removal
* defense against battle and DDA/DDWL
* Strong continuous field presence
* Searchers for both phoenix and v-lord
* Attackers that don't fear the 3x sak + 2x WR in a deck.

this could be a sample deck.

Tributes: 4
1 Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys
2 Vampire Lord
1 Mobius the Frost Monarch

non-tributes: 18
1 Apprentice magician
1 Magician of Faith
1 Hand of Nephthys
2 Pyramid Turtle
3 Spirit Reaper
3 GK Spy
1 GK Guard
2 Dekoichi the Battlechanted Locomotive
1 Sangan
1 Breaker
1 DDWL
1 Drilloid

Spells: 9
2 Smashing Ground
1 Brain Control
1 Snatch Steal
1 Nobleman of Crossout
1 heavy Storm
1 MST
1 Swords of Revealing light
1 Premature Burial
1 Dark Hole

Traps: 9
3 Sakuretsu Armor
3 Dust Tornado
1 Bottomless Trap Hole
1 Torrential Tribute
1 Call of the Haunted

[kEviN21]

Cuz the main monsters, the phoenix and vamp are too vulnerable to cards like dd assailant, ddwl, and bth...

[Leon-D]

For the millionth time: V-Lord doesn't give a flying rats arse about BTH. Turtle tutors it in the damage step. It can be more of a problem for Phoenix though. From my experience the two cards (while sharing similar revival effects) require different support builds. It just destroys consistancy to try and blend them.

Here's a sample Phoenix Control build:

[1] The Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys
[3] Apprentice Magician
[2] Old Vindictive Magician
[1] Magician of Faith
[1] Hand of Nephthys

The most synergetic blend of Phoenix support with spell caster control. Add Tsuku and you could give it an FFC feel too.

Here's a sample V-Lord support build:

[3] Vampire Lord
[3] Pyramid Turtle
[2] Spirit Reaper
[1] Des Lacooda

You see? Completely different lines of support. If you want to run a card you have to make it work for you as best as you can. Provides a line of search and adequate targets to make it worth it. It just won't work as well to flop the two together.

Don't tell me you actually want to tribute for these guys?

[kEviN21]

Ok most likely either vamp is gonna get pounded on or a saks gonna be used on it....once it comes bak, thats when most commonly it'll get bth...........but dd assailants in 3's is the biggest reason why zombies deck HAVENT made it all that far in tournies...

[MyachicMakeLove]

I have a question for all you ppl, why would you want to combine phoenix with v-lord annyway. Simply because they have the same ability? I think v-lord should stick to a zombie/toolbox thing and phoenix combined with chaos. i think it doesnt work because you have so manny cards in this deck that focus on getting high level monsters out that it kind of falls short(monster wise)in other departments.

[Hellokitty]

you have mixed to many themes

iam seeing 3

FFC (well some form ie spys and stuff) zombies and phoenix

try to narrow it down to the zombie and phoenix

[filimon]

I have a question for all you ppl, why would you want to combine phoenix with v-lord annyway. Simply because they have the same ability? I think v-lord should stick to a zombie/toolbox thing and phoenix combined with chaos. i think it doesnt work because you have so manny cards in this deck that focus on getting high level monsters out that it kind of falls short(monster wise)in other departments.


dude thats wat i runits not done yet though its missing breaker and sangan
monsters:20
Mobius 2
Vampire Lord 2
Cyber Dragon 1
Pyramid Turtle 3
Spirit Reaper 3
D.D. Assailant 2
D.D. Warrior Lady 1
Berserk Gorilla 2
Don Zaloog 1
Mystic Swordsman LV2 2
Exiled Force 1

Spells:13
Smashing Ground 3
Dark Hole 1
Nobleman of Crossout 1
Snatch Steal 1
Brain Control 1
Reinforcement of the Army 2
Mystical Space Typhoon 1
Heavy Storm 1
Premature Burial 1
Scapegoat 1

Traps:9
Sakuretsu Armor 3
Trap Hole 2
Torrentorial Tribute 1
Dust Tornado 2
Call of the Haunted 1

srry about list i did it in word a couple weeks ago

[Black-Canary]

Just ignore that sample deck. The idea was to try to understand why the deck doesn't work. How does phoenix/vlord split resources to thinnly? The reason people combine the two is because they both sponge up smashing/sak/WSR.

[filimon]

Just ignore that sample deck. The idea was to try to understand why the deck doesn't work. How does phoenix/vlord split resources to thinnly? The reason people combine the two is because they both sponge up smashing/sak/WSR.


I think p/vl splits recorces to thinly by the slots you need to run them effectivly ur missing out on alot of support and the cost for SPoN is a little high You need The Hand andanother monster... When u build p/vl you have too much SPONGE and not enough of anything else to support you.

[Marzy]

Phoenix and Zombie support don't go together. It's spreading your resources thin.

Also, it leads to misusing Phoenix to simply use it's removal. You could set BTH/Saku to protect it from DDA or Bazoo, but then it could be Smashed and return only to destroy the protection you yourself laid down for it. Life sucks when your own Phoenix is used against you.

V. Lord has less going for it. Cyber Dragons pwn it, and anything that kills Cyber Dragon pwns it. Today's meta is a lot more aggressive (a lot because of Cyber Dragon), and V. Lord can be taken out by DD Removal or a suicidal monkey.

It's a hazardous deck type. V. Lord hasn't the power to back his effect, and Phoenix is easy to manipulate if you have to protect it. That is why it isn't used as much. Takes a lot of effort to get it to work for you, not against you.

[nicholascobalt]

Phoenix Levitin is the strongest deck type out right now,
then Chaos(warrior chaos/spellcaster chaos),
Warriors,
Gravekeepers,
Burn/OTK,
Control (clown including camel control, Burn Control),
Zombie,
Spellcaster Control, Phoenix...

See ^, the reason it doesn't work is because it is a combination of the 2 weakest competative decks.

[Black-Canary]

Phoenix Levitin is the strongest deck type out right now,
then Chaos(warrior chaos/spellcaster chaos),
Warriors,
Gravekeepers,
Burn/OTK,
Control (clown including camel control, Burn Control),
Zombie,
Spellcaster Control, Phoenix...

See ^, the reason it doesn't work is because it is a combination of the 2 weakest competative decks.

What is phoenix levitin?

[C9XGMR]

The reason why V-Lord/Phoenix doesn't Work is because their to different monster.
One day a person came a long and notice, Phoenix "rebirth" just like V-Lord. So, he built a deck where his monsters come back like Zombies and ended up calling it Zombies.
Big wo0t, it does nothing to surpport one-or-another, Phoenix doesn't even fit in the deck or even work! Its just "rebirth" thats all.

[nicholascobalt]

What is phoenix levitin?
Basically - Unstopable

Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys
Mobius the Frost Monarch
Exiled Force
Breaker the Magical Warrior
Cyber Dragon
Newdoria
3x Bazoo the Soul Eater
2x D.D. Survivor
Sangan
Injection Fairy Lilly
3x Spirit Reaper
Magician of Faith
2x Apprentice Magician
Hand of Nephthys

Card Destruction
Scapegoat
Heavy Storm
Smashing Ground
Snatch Steal
Brain Control
Dark Hole
Hammer Shot
Mystical Space Typhoon
Swords of Revealing Light
Premature Burial

3x Return from the Different Dimension
3x Sakuretsu Armor
Dust Tornado
Call of the Haunted
Bottomless Trap Hole
Torrential Tribute

[C9XGMR]

Basically - Unstopable

Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys
Mobius the Frost Monarch
Exiled Force
Breaker the Magical Warrior
Cyber Dragon
Newdoria
3x Bazoo the Soul Eater
2x D.D. Survivor
Sangan
Injection Fairy Lilly
3x Spirit Reaper
Magician of Faith
2x Apprentice Magician
Hand of Nephthys

Card Destruction
Scapegoat
Heavy Storm
Smashing Ground
Snatch Steal
Brain Control
Dark Hole
Hammer Shot
Mystical Space Typhoon
Swords of Revealing Light
Premature Burial

3x Return from the Different Dimension
3x Sakuretsu Armor
Dust Tornado
Call of the Haunted
Bottomless Trap Hole
Torrential Tribute
So what, Paul's deck is not known as RftDD now?
Instead its called, Paul Levitin Control?

[nicholascobalt]

So what, Paul's deck is not known as RftDD now?
Instead its called, Paul Levitin Control?
That isn't pauls deck, this one is based around Phoenix, it has elements - strong elements, from Pauls deck, and Soul Control, free revival, mass Magic Trap and Monster removal, and speed like warriors, the strings of +1's and swarm just destroy any player. My once undefeated Chaos deck loses every match to it T_T ... anyways I can still beat anyone else with Chaos.

Besides... I'm lazy and Levitin is easier than RftDD Control and conveys the same message.

[S i l e n t l i n e]

I don't see why people name decks after people... Those people probably didn't come up with it first... So there is no reason to give them total credit (Even if they were the first people to use it specifically)...

Have you noticed the other times in history that we name something after someone?... Yeah... Please stop praising people... Especially over a card game...

Also... Saying the deck is unstoppable is a horrible assumption...

The problem with the deck posted is that...

Without Return from a Different Dimension... It is slopply put together with random monsters... Not to mention that it relies a lot on face-down monsters... (Which of course you can put them face-up... But no one does at first)... And in a deck were I run all of the Mystic Swordsmans (I am talking about my deck)... It would simply take out Spirit Reapers... Apprentice Magicians... Newdoria (It summoned face-down... It is about a 50-50 chance of it being face-down or face-up)... Magician of Faith...

And since it is usually LV4 that I have out... The only monsters in that deck that can take it out are a powered up Bazoo... Cyber Dragon... Phoenix if you can get it out... Mobius if you can get it out... And Injection Fairy Lily if you want to pay 2000 LPs... And all of those monster fall to Bottomless Trap Hole... Sakuretsu Armor... Or Solemn Judgment (Which all together there are 7... Three Solemn and two of the others...)...

And you do have some traps... But my deck runs two Dust Tornados... Mystical Space Typhoon... Heavy Storm... Three Solemn Judgment... A Cliff the Trap Remover (great tech)... To go against your 5 monster removing traps that you might or might not draw (And TT is more of an equalizer instead of removal)...

So far... I've named most of my traps... My trap removing spells... And one four monsters in my deck... And it's accounted for most everything in the deck...

D.D Survivor is not strong enough alone against Mystic Swordsman LV4... Much less some of the monsters in my deck...

And Exiled Force is a nice one for one... But wasting a summon to take out one of my monsters doesn't work good... Since I don't heavily rely on a single monster...

Breaker is good for taking out a spell... Or being a beatstick... But again... You will probably waste the counter on a trap... And even if you don't... It's not hard to take out Breaker with a counter...

The spell line-up is rather weak... Scapegoat is amazing for a deck with Mystic Swordsmans in it... It is pretty much a Level Up!...

Brain Control is almost useless unless you are going to tribute for... Or end the game...

And besides Hammer Shot (Not a good card)... Everything else is seen in most every deck... So there is no reason to go over them...

But that leaves Return from a Different Dimension... Which the thing with it is... Without Bazoo... It isn't too useful... Sure you get to bring back something someone removes with D.D. Assailant... But the same thing is going to happen again...

So if you can't draw your Bazoos... Or they can't hit the field... You aren't in good shape...

There is really nothing solid enough in the deck... It is mixed themes just like the deck in question at the beginning of the thread...

But don't say something is unstoppable... It is a stupid assumption...

But anyways... The reason why it doesn't work that well is because they need different cards to support them...

Of course it is possible to make a successful deck out of them... But it isn't the easiest thing to do...

Personally... I would do this...

3 - Pryamid Turtle
3 - Apprentice Magician
2 - Giant Rat
2 - Spirit Reaper
2 - Vampire Lord
2 - Vindictive Old Magician
1 - Magician of Faith
1 - Hand of Nephthys
1 - Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys
1 - Injection Fairy Lily
1 - Sangan
1 - Breaker the Magical Warrior

20

3 - Smashing Ground
1 - Mystical Space Typhoon
1 - Premature Burial
1 - Book of Life
1 - Snatch Steal
1 - Heavy Storm
1 - Swords of Revealing Light
1 - Dark Hole
1 - Card Destruction

11

3 - Sakuretsu Armor
2 - Dust Tornado
2 - Bottomless Trap Hole
1 - Widespread Ruin
1 - Call of the Haunted
1 - Torrential Tribute

10

Now the deck is at 41... But you can always take something out and make it a 40 card deck...

The whole problem is... Without the searching the deck has to do... The deck doesn't work... Making it kind of easy to be taken out by Mystic Swordsman and cards like it...

But the upside of this one... Pyramid Turtles and Giant Rats can be put face-up without major consequences (LP wise)...

But besides Breaker and Injection Fairy Lily... The deck isn't that strong unless the tributes get searched out... So you could add in some Cyber Dragons...

It has enough removal... And the object of the deck is to get out what you need... Clear the field... And attack directly...

A simple senerio is they attack a Pyramid Turtle... You get out Vampire Lord or Spirit Reaper (If you already have one in your hand)... And you Smashing Ground and go for LPs... That's a nice 2000 + with Vampire Lord and another monster you summoned... Or a nice 2 cards out of the hand from Spirit Reapers...

Or it could happen that they attack a Apprentice Magician... You get an Old Vindictive Magician... Next turn flip it... Either tribute it... Or get out something good like an Injection Fairy Lily... And go for LPs...

The thing with the deck is... It has enough removal to be successful... At worse case senerio... You can keep using removal and just hit LPs with Pyramid Turtles and Giant Rats...

I mean... It is worth trying out... But I don't know exactly how good it would be...

[Coojma]

You need Pot of Avarice :D

[dowster]

i've tried this deck personally before and the biggest reasons i see why it doesn't work is, BAD HANDS and TERRIBLE TOP DECKS.

[mech-hound]

A good vampire build...

Des Lacooda/Vampy Control

Monsters 18

1 Exiled Force
1 DDWL
1 Breaker
1 Sangan
2 Vampire Lord
2 Des Lacooda
2 Rat
2 Drilloid
2 Spirit REaper
3 Pyramid Turtle

Spells 11

1 Snatch
1 Vortex
1 Preme
1 Dark Hole
1 MST
1 Heavy
1 BoM
1 Noblemen of Xout
1 SORL
2 Book of LIfe

Traps 14

1 CoTH
1 Widespread Ruin
2 Dust
2 Solemn Judgement
2 Threatening Roar
3 BTH
3 Sakuretsu Armor

note how little room thier...Its 42(bad...I know...but the deck does work) and I still

[Capajoe]

Ryu Kokki > DDA :/


Edit: Yep I totally forgot how to spell today...

[wertalace]

Apples and Oranges my friend. Do Appanges exist? Didn't think so.

[atoan]

I've ran a zombie deck type since I began this game a year ago, and I've just recently toyed around with the new zombie/pheonix build, and Ive noticed a few things:

-Kokkis seem to be much more valuable than the pheonix, and much easier to get out over pheonix, since the giant rats and pyramid turtles are stronger than Hand of Nephthys and search easier.

-The 'return' aspect of VLord and Pheonix isn't as powerful as it is made out to be. If you summon either one, and it runs into a Widespread or a Saku that turn, they are gone for your opponent's entire next turn, leaving you completely reliant on s/t's to defend you. I don't like that vulnerability. When you run pure zombie, you're more likely to have another monster on the field, especially with more Books.

BTW if you dont run kokkis in a zombie deck, you dont know what you're doing. Although VLord holds a certain sentiment to me as well, there is no denying that kokki is the beatstick meat-and-potatoes of the zombie sub type. A zombie deck isn't a zombie deck without him.

I think I am going to ditch the zombie/pheonix build for good and go back to pure zombie. I suggest that everyone else who ran with the pheonix do the same, but hey, its always your decision.

[burntonapike]

BTH, assailants

[Etc sucks]

Tributes are very unstable

not to mention that it offeres no real + 1s

e.g. all the hand d