The banlist that scares the crap out of Traditionalists.

[Pemolis]

Black Luster Soldier-Envoy of the Beginning
Book of Moon
Breaker the Magical Warrior
Butterfly Dagger Elma
Call of the Haunted
Change of Heart
Chaos Emperor Dragon-Envoy of the End
D.D. Assalaint
D.D. Warrior Lady
D.D. Warrior
Delinquent Duo
Dust Tornado
Exiled Force
Fiber Jar
Graceful Charity
Harpie's Feather Duster
Imperial Order
Magical Scientist
Makyura the Destructor
Mirage of Nightmare
Monster Reborn
Painful Choice
Pot of Greed
Raigeki
Ring of Destruction
Sinister Serpent
Tribe Infecting Virus
Witch of the Black Forest
Yata-Garasu
Dark Hole
Fissure
Hammer Shot
Heavy Storm
Mirror Force
Mystical Space Typhoon
Nobleman of Crossout
Premature Burial
Sakuretsu Armor
Sangan
Smashing Ground
Snatch Steal
Torrential Tribute
Tsukuyomi
The Forceful Sentry
Enemy Controller
Scapegoat
Mobuis the Frost Monarch
Waboku
Threatening Roar
Bottomless Trap Hole
Trap Hole
Lightning Vortex
Yomi Frog
Solemn Judgement
Cyber Jar
Royal Decree
Jinzo
Brain Control
Airknight
Mystic Swordsman LV2
Drilloid
Ninja Sasuke
Widespread Ruin
Giant Trunade
Spirit Reaper
Spiritualism
Summon Priests (when it comes out)
Shrink (when it comes out)




Limited:
Needle Ceiling
Messenger of Peace
Creature Swap
Skill Drain
Compulsory Evacuatory Device
Wave Motion Cannon
Book of Taiyou
Card Destruction
Ceasefire
Chaos Sorcerer
Confiscation
Dark Magician of Chaos
Deck Devastation Virus
Exchange of the spirit
Exodia the Forbidden One
Injection Fairy Lily
Left Arm of the Forbidden One
Left Leg of the Forbidde One
Limiter Removal
Mage Power
Magic Cylinder
Magician of Faith
Metamorphosis
Morphing Jar
Night Assailant
Protector of the Sanctuary
Reckless Greed
Reflect Bounder
Right Arm of the Forbidden One
Right Leg of the Forbidden One
Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys
Swords of Revealing Light
Thousand Eyes Restrict
Twin-Headed Behemoth
United We Stand
Gravity Bind
Last Turn
Level Limit-Area B
Manticore of Darkness




Semi-Limited:
Abyss Soilder
Emergency Provisions
Good Goblin Housekeeping
Mystik Wok
Reinforcement of the Army
Upstart Goblin
Warrior Returning Alive




Basic concept of this banlist. Everybody starts fresh and creates a new deck that has all new magic/ traps, and monster cards.

Now THATS a List. Banlist is about 65 cards long. Out of 2000 Choices of cards that can be run in triplets... thats not too bad. Basically one out of every 80 cards were banned, or about 2 cards per set (around that figure).

The most amazing part of it. You might actually SEE a new Magic/Trap Cards being used.

Its drastic, but not far off from Ideal. This is JUST an advanced List Banlist, Modifications can be made for Traditional Play, such as having access to shrink, summon priest, reaper, swordsman, etc etc.

[StealthoftheWest]

It'll never happen. The mere concept of this ban list is flawed.

[Pemolis]

It'll never happen. The mere concept of this ban list is flawed.

I guess you like having 50% of your deck SET IN STONE before you ever start to build it.

I guess you like to see the exact same cards played over and over and over and over and OVER AND OVER AND OVER again.

All I did was move the cards that every deck plays... no matter what the deck, over to the banlist. Then I moved the immediate substitutes over so decks do not merely shift down a card. Then I removed the possible overly abusable cards due to their removal.

Thats all.

[KogyochiBJ]

Even with all these cards gone, people would just make CC beatdown control decks and win tournements anyways. There will always be a CC deck, even with that stupid list. You'd ban cyber jar, but not ban morphing jar????

[Pemolis]

Self Draw engines are beginning to come into their own (I say beginning). Cards like Battle Locamotive, Des Lacooda, and Dark Mimic. Still I do know that morphing jar is a near (if not staple). Also, most would not maindeck Morphing Jar due solely of the effects of Dark World (most would side deck it until they know if the opponent has a DW deck or not). I had a hard time wrapping my mind around morphing jar, but at the moment, people are too fearful to play it/maindeck it because/outside of dark world decks.

Morphing Jar is a boarder card ATM.

[KogyochiBJ]

Self Draw engines are beginning to come into their own (I say beginning). Cards like Battle Locamotive, Des Lacooda, and Dark Mimic. Still I do know that morphing jar is a near (if not staple). Also, most would not maindeck Morphing Jar due solely of the effects of Dark World (most would side deck it until they know if the opponent has a DW deck or not). I had a hard time wrapping my mind around morphing jar, but at the moment, people are too fearful to play it/maindeck it because/outside of dark world decks.

Morphing Jar is a boarder card ATM.

Ok, well, you make terrible arguments here. If you BAN Hammer Shot...... .....wow...Ekybo is better.....

Oh, if you BAN Hammer Shot, and keep morphing jar, I think you have a very crappy ban list.

[StealthoftheWest]

I don't understand...

Even if your banlist somehow became a reality...a new set of cards will arise which will be "set in stone", as it were.

I honestly don't see what your list accomplishes.

[Flames of a Phoenix]

Why ban "Exchange of the Spirit"? It's its own decktype. You're going to kill a decktype?

Lots of other cards you have on there aren't worth it. You're killing more decktypes than you're making.

[Radant128]

There will always be a CC deck. However, the CC doesn't have to be light years ahead of other decks.

However, untill suitable theme-based cards come out to replace what is being lost, I have to say I'm against it.

[Airknight]

All I did was move the cards that every deck plays... no matter what the deck, over to the banlist. Then I moved the immediate substitutes over so decks do not merely shift down a card. Then I removed the possible overly abusable cards due to their removal.

Thats all.
so basically you just restart the whole game from the beginning?

[Pemolis]

Thats an interesting way of thinking about it. Start it from the beginning. I'll narrow it down a bit.

I reset Deck Building to the beginning. The game is still as far along as it has ever been.

There may always be a CC deck, that doesn' t mean because there will always be one, we shouldn't bother changing the list to adapt to it.

Ok, well, you make terrible arguments here. If you BAN Hammer Shot...... .....wow...Ekybo is better.....

Oh, if you BAN Hammer Shot, and keep morphing jar, I think you have a very crappy ban list.

If you want to be hung up on 1 card go ahead, the list is more than just MJar.

edit: Aah I understand your arguement. When choosing what I chose, I looked at what would be the immediate substitute for a card being lost. The concept was to look for the next best thing. If waboku were banned, and people wanted to play waboku substitutes that were absolutely non-theme based, what would they choose. Threatening Roar. Its the closest sub for waboku and would most likely be immediately chosen as substitute for the card (similar to how Sakuesku was chosen as substitute for Mirror Force). Now this only applies to truely overwhemling effects.

With Smashing Ground, I looked at the two closest substitutes, which were Hammer Shot and Fissure. Both are 1 for 1's, same concept as hammer shot (activate, and kill something, quick and easy and rarely if ever counterable 1 for 1). With your arguement of "Since hammershot now banned, Ekibyo Drakmord is now good" here is the difference. Hammershot is instant. Meaning unless your opponent has VERY specific countermeasures to counter it, it will go off unhindered. Ekibyo Drakmord is different because it takes time to work. The threat is not instantly removed from the field (it may not be able to attack, but the effects of such monster can still activate and continue). Your opponent also has options for countering and dealing with it becides relying on counter traps that they had to set the turn before knowning that you would be the only way to counter your play of such a card. Due to the need to "See into the future", they would have to literally fill there decks with about 15 to 20 different Counter Cards Just to have a chance of stopping the massive and easy amount of destruction a person presently has.

This arguement can be bent in many different ways, but I specified it directly at your example of HammerShot and Ekibyo Drakmord.


However, untill suitable theme-based cards come out to replace what is being lost, I have to say I'm against it.

I honestly would love that to happen, but I do not think the game can wait that long.


I don't understand...

Even if your banlist somehow became a reality...a new set of cards will arise which will be "set in stone", as it were.


Stealth, this arguement doesn't apply to just my list, but to every list from here till the end of time. This is one of the issues which this/my list tries to attack, which is the Present Direct issue within the game. Once/If this list did become reality, we do not actually know WHAT would be the new set of cards. No one has actually thought that far ahead (this is what a list should accomplish, a total relook at the entire theme of deck building, not just a slight modification of 1 to 3 cards).

[Konoichi]

This banlist = the current banlist x10000


This is because our current list killed the top CC... and did about nothing anywhere else. It banned what was "on top" without considering the consequence of it. Your list just slaughtered the top decks (and their side decks, even ;x), and didn't bother to consider what that would make the new game state.

So yeah... you took Konami's choices and repeated it a bunch of times until the top decks were left with nothing at all. Good job? =/

[topspin1617]

There will always be a CC deck.

Instead of banning multiple cards to weaken it, I think we need to find the right combination of cards to make the CC as skillful to play as possible. So that not everyone can just pick it up and play it.

This list makes the game very, very simple.

[Capajoe]

Here would be either the top deck or near the top deck in this list:
Monsters: 18
3x GAF
3x Lei Lei
3x GEAF
3x Giant Orc
1x Hand of Nephthys
1x Phoenix
1x DMoC
3x Apprentice Magician
Spells: 11
3x Ekybio Drak
1x Card Destruction
2x Upstart Goblin
1x Mage Power
1x United We Stand
3x Axe of Despair
Traps: 11
3x Dust Tornado
3x 7-Tools
1x Skill Drain
3x Final Attack Orders
1x Ceasefire

[Pemolis]

This banlist = the current banlist x10000

So yeah... you took Konami's choices and repeated it a bunch of times until the top decks were left with nothing at all. Good job? =/

Yep, Good Job. Thank you :D

Here would be either the top deck or near the top deck in this list:
Guess you'll be the number one then.


There will always be a CC deck.

Instead of banning multiple cards to weaken it, I think we need to find the right combination of cards to make the CC as skillful to play as possible. So that not everyone can just pick it up and play it.


Cookie Cutter does not provide a type of Skill to show off, but limits what a person can build and use in a deck. If there were cookie cutter decks Based Solely ON Theme (such as a baseline deck for building a Fiend Based Deck, or a Spellcaster Based Deck), then I am perfectly happy with that. In-fact that is what I hope happens. I would rather have Theme Based CC decks instead of Game Based CC decks. There are baseline monsters that are starting to creep in as Theme Requirments, such as Giant Germ in a Fiend deck, and using Dark Necrofear. or using Solar Flare Dragon in a fire deck, or GAF in a Warrior Deck. Ok thats great. What dismays the game is the dire need for generalized all around instant gratification cards.

I am not going to rehash the entire arguement again.

TopSpin. The Right Combination of CC is also the exact same arguement Radant128 is making. We need the CC cards to solely be Theme Specific and have Theme Based Requirements.

Till then.....

[Konoichi]

Yep, Good Job. Thank you :D


Thanks for proving my point. ;]

[CHaOsYaTa]

I don't understand...

Even if your banlist somehow became a reality...a new set of cards will arise which will be "set in stone", as it were.

I honestly don't see what your list accomplishes.
same here.....

[ixidor89]

Spiritualism Banned...

Because it obviously has impacted the game TREMENDOUSLY lately.

[KogyochiBJ]

One word, he's a "noobie".

[YuGiOh Elephant]

NO CHANGE OF HEART OR TRAP HOLE!??!? Those 2 are STAPLES to me!!! :eek: STAPLES!! I cant beleive they put that on the banlist!!

Luckily, i only ever duel at home. :D

PS: Sorry for exessive caps.

[Dark Paliden]

Black Luster Soldier-Envoy of the Beginning
Book of Moon
Breaker the Magical Warrior
Butterfly Dagger Elma
Call of the Haunted
Change of Heart
Chaos Emperor Dragon-Envoy of the End
D.D. Assalaint
D.D. Warrior Lady
D.D. Warrior
Delinquent Duo
Exiled Force
Fiber Jar
Graceful Charity
Harpie's Feather Duster
Imperial Order
Magical Scientist
Makyura the Destructor
Mirage of Nightmare
Monster Reborn
Painful Choice
Pot of Greed
Raigeki
Ring of Destruction
Sinister Serpent
Tribe Infecting Virus
Witch of the Black Forest
Yata-Garasu
Dark Hole
Fissure
Hammer Shot
Heavy Storm
Mirror Force
Mystical Space Typhoon
Nobleman of Crossout
Premature Burial
Sakuretsu Armor
Sangan
Smashing Ground
Snatch Steal
Torrential Tribute
Tsukuyomi
The Forceful Sentry
Enemy Controller
Scapegoat
Mobuis the Frost Monarch
Waboku
Threatening Roar
Bottomless Trap Hole
Trap Hole
Lightning Vortex
Yomi Frog
Solemn Judgement
Cyber Jar
Royal Decree
Jinzo
Brain Control
Airknight
Mystic Swordsman LV2
Drilloid
Ninja Sasuke
Widespread Ruin
Giant Trunade
Spirit Reaper
Spiritualism
Summon Priests (when it comes out)
Shrink (when it comes out)




Limited:
Messenger of Peace
Creature Swap
Skill Drain
Compulsory Evacuatory Device
Wave Motion Cannon
Book of Taiyou
Card Destruction
Ceasefire
Chaos Sorcerer
Confiscation
Dark Magician of Chaos
Deck Devastation Virus
Exchange of the spirit
Exodia the Forbidden One
Injection Fairy Lily
Jinzo
Left Arm of the Forbidden One
Left Leg of the Forbidde One
Limiter Removal
Mage Power
Magic Cylinder
Magician of Faith
Metamorphosis
Morphing Jar
Night Assailant
Protector of the Sanctuary
Reckless Greed
Reflect Bounder
Right Arm of the Forbidden One
Right Leg of the Forbidden One
Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys
Swords of Revealing Light
Thousand Eyes Restrict
Twin-Headed Behemoth
United We Stand
Gravity Bind
Last Turn
Level Limit-Area B
Manticore of Darkness




Semi-Limited:
Abyss Soilder
Creature Swap
Emergency Provisions
Good Goblin Housekeeping
Mystik Wok
Reinforcement of the Army
Upstart Goblin
Warrior Returning Alive




Basic concept of this banlist. Everybody starts fresh and creates a new deck that has all new magic/ traps, and monster cards.

Now THATS a List. Banlist is about 65 cards long. Out of 2000 Choices of cards that can be run in triplets... thats not too bad. Basically one out of every 80 cards were banned, or about 2 cards per set (around that figure).

The most amazing part of it. You might actually SEE a new Magic/Trap Cards being used.

Its drastic, but not far off from Ideal. This is JUST an advanced List Banlist, Modifications can be made for Traditional Play, such as having access to shrink, summon priest, reaper, swordsman, etc etc.

And you think this list would happen? Thats liek around 60 cards and some of them aren't that broken.

[Pemolis]

Aren't "That Broken"!?!?!

But they are still.. .broken!!!.


ixidor89, YuGiOh Elephant and KogyochiBJ please don't flame. If you are going to post, construct an arguement. 1 sentence remarks do absolutely nothing.. except bump my post... to that I say "thank you".


-----------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthoftheWest
I don't understand...

Even if your banlist somehow became a reality...a new set of cards will arise which will be "set in stone", as it were.

I honestly don't see what your list accomplishes.

same here.....
-----------------------------------------

I'll leave you to answer the question since you asked it.

"What is A banlist suppost to Accomplish". This is a general question not directed at the list of Cards I Created. So what is a Banlist suppost to accomplish. If you can answer that then you will have a grasp of why I made this list.

[topspin1617]

Aren't "That Broken"!?!?!

But they are still.. .broken!!!.


ixidor89, YuGiOh Elephant and KogyochiBJ please don't flame. If you are going to post, construct an arguement. 1 sentence remarks do absolutely nothing.. except bump my post... to that I say "thank you".


-----------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthoftheWest
I don't understand...

Even if your banlist somehow became a reality...a new set of cards will arise which will be "set in stone", as it were.

I honestly don't see what your list accomplishes.

same here.....
-----------------------------------------

I'll leave you to answer the question since you asked it.

"What is A banlist suppost to Accomplish". This is a general question not directed at the list of Cards I Created. So what is a Banlist suppost to accomplish. If you can answer that then you will have a grasp of why I made this list.

A ban list is supposed to get rid of the overly broken and unbalanced cards from the metagame, so there is more diversity, skill, and fun.

Last I checked, Waboku and Threatening Roar were not broken, nor have they ruined any metagame.

[L2theZ]

I'll leave you to answer the question since you asked it.

"What is A banlist suppost to Accomplish". This is a general question not directed at the list of Cards I Created. So what is a Banlist suppost to accomplish. If you can answer that then you will have a grasp of why I made this list.

The banlist was created because players were compaling because they were getting beat by better players obv.

[ZorcTheAncientClown]

I don't even care that you banned some cards unnecessarily. I love it. You are God. Next to Kurt Cobain.

[L2theZ]

Zorc makes me a sad panda for comapring this list and it's creator to Kurt Cobain.

This is when you make a ban list you have to give and take, all you did was take, you need to give some of the cards back when you make this ban list. Also you banned far too many unnessecary cards, sp I think this list is bad, but you already knew what I was going to say anyway.

[WildfireR9]

Dude, I started working on evaluating this list, seperating out the cards I agree/disagree with, but it was so much freakin' work. Props for putting up the ban list that no one else had the balls to do. I'll just say congrats in this post, and maybe I'll elaborate another time. In any case I'll just say I agree with most of those for just reasons.

The banlist was created because players were compaling because they were getting beat by better players obv.
Limiter13,

I find no point in trying to argue with you anymore, at least in a civil manner. Your posts seam to be nothing but ad hominem, and I'm saying this because I plan on ignoring you while you pretend not to care. I apologize if this is taken as a personal attack.

[L2theZ]

Limiter13,

I find no point in trying to argue with you anymore, at least in a civil manner. Your posts seam to be nothing but ad hominem, and I'm saying this because I plan on ignoring you while you pretend not to care. I apologize if this is taken as a personal attack.

He asked what the point of the ban list was and I told him, sorry if the truth hurts.

[ZorcTheAncientClown]

Zorc makes me a sad panda for comapring this list and it's creator to Kurt Cobain.

This is when you make a ban list you have to give and take, all you did was take, you need to give some of the cards back when you make this ban list. Also you banned far too many unnessecary cards, sp I think this list is bad, but you already knew what I was going to say anyway.

Actually I was just thinking of using the expression wher you call someone holy. And then I thought, "But Kurt Cobain is already God. So what will I do?"

Never mind. You are demoted from God status, to archangel.

[PMasterS]

I honestly don't quite know what to say to this, I'm stuck between two options so I'm just gonna go for both.

1) I challange you to make a dek out of what is left, its just not possible.

2) You have proven me so very, very wrong. Before reading this thread I would have bet that someone being as stupid as you couldn't exist without nature itself vomiting with rage at what had been created.

[Paladinseer007]

I think that this list is very much ridiculous and stupid, because it's so strict that maybe alot of people would actually quit this game because of a list like this, but that's my opinion on the matter. :p

[One-Winged Angel]

Did no one else notice that Creature Swap is at both 1 and 2? Which is it supposed to be?

[ixidor89]

ixidor89, YuGiOh Elephant and KogyochiBJ please don't flame. If you are going to post, construct an arguement. 1 sentence remarks do absolutely nothing.. except bump my post... to that I say "thank you".


I am not flaming. The one sentence argument speaks for itself. Who plays/has ever played spiritualism? Who has ever found it abusable in any way? And why would it be banned over cards like chaos sorceror abd other cards that contribute to card advantage?

The banning of this card makes no sense at all in your list. If you're banning all of the cards used a lot, you should keep this in threes just so it can be used for once in this new format.

[Lord of the Bling]

Why in hell is Giant Trunade, among others, banned?

Seriously, this list sucks all the skill out of the game.

If you want a list where we play with all new cards, go with GX format.

[bmxbunnie17]

you my friend are on crack this list would never happen

[Pemolis]

I think that this list is very much ridiculous and stupid, because it's so strict that maybe alot of people would actually quit this game because of a list like this, but that's my opinion on the matter. :p

Opinions are fine, but we cannot speak for other people, only ourselves. The question for you is. Would you quit cause you cannot use heavy storm and call of the haunted, or are you man enough to morph your playstyle and deck to use other cards becides the ones that were already predefined in your deck before you ever constructed it?.

Did no one else notice that Creature Swap is at both 1 and 2? Which is it supposed to be?

Fixed that, should have been 1


I am not flaming. The one sentence argument speaks for itself. Who plays/has ever played spiritualism? Who has ever found it abusable in any way? And why would it be banned over cards like chaos sorceror abd other cards that contribute to card advantage?

The banning of this card makes no sense at all in your list. If you're banning all of the cards used a lot, you should keep this in threes just so it can be used for once in this new format.

I am just cutting off a "Possible" problem card. People are going to look for quick and easy removals, and the closest thing they can find to a 1 for 1 (or in this case, a 1 for 0 that cannot be stopped). Do you have any other arguement becides that 1 card? Or is that 1 card the only reason you are posting?


Why in hell is Giant Trunade, among others, banned?

Seriously, this list sucks all the skill out of the game.

If you want a list where we play with all new cards, go with GX format.

After heavy storm, whats the next best field clearer. Giant Trunade. I just cut off the "next best thing". GT would be a maindecked card if it wasn't for Heavy Storm in this format ("This is my estimate").

you my friend are on crack this list would never happen

First off, I am not your friend.
Secondly, I do not do drugs.
Thirdly, whether a list like this would happen or not no one really knows. The point is that this specific list targets the main problems in the present game at this time. Those problems are the static use of specific cards in all deck, the massive abuse of 1 for 1 cards, the overuse of destruction based cards, and the possible replacement to such cards WHEN they do get banned/restricted.

[Lord of the Bling]

I repeat. Why is Giant Trunade banned, but Dust Tornado isn't?

You didn't even limit it.

There's your M/T destroyer, and with Decree/Jinzo banned...

For every 1-1 card that you ban, there is a next best card. For monster destruction, it's now Ekiybo Drakmord. M/T, Dust Tornado.

You didn't even restrict Cyber Dragon.

Ergo; for a massban banlist, this fails.

[Avernus]

When the first ban list came out I heard similiar complaints like the ones on this thread. Many people thought the first ban list was stupid and would never make it to American shores.

If they were to make the OP's ban list a reality, they could make a ton of new cards that do the same thing but are more themed. It would be a way to finally kill CC and give new life to yugioh.

Don't be afraid of change.

[Pemolis]

I repeat. Why is Giant Trunade banned, but Dust Tornado isn't?

You didn't even limit it.

Typo on my part. Fixed.

[Paladinseer007]

Why in hell is Giant Trunade, among others, banned?

Seriously, this list sucks all the skill out of the game.

If you want a list where we play with all new cards, go with GX format.

This list does suck, which this list has very little structure, but that's my opinion and all. :D

[ajp123]

This ban-list wouldn't've been that hard to do. Let me give you an approximate step-by-step guide:

1) Compile a list of all cards used in every single SJC there ever was.
2) Ban all cards on this compiled list.
3) Compile a list of every "next-best-card" to the cards that were banned in step two.
4) Restrict these "next-best-cards" to one.
5) Semi-restrict any playable cards left.

Or something similar to that...

~AJP.

P.S: Just live with the fact that there will always be a best deck around. Even if you ban every single card apart from fourteen of the weakest vanilla monsters.

[Der Man]

Please justify these:

banned
Ninja Sasuke
Spiritualism

Limited:
Creature Swap
Jinzo you put this under banned
Protector of the Sanctuary

Semi-Limited:
Mystik Wok

[plumaglob63]

so your concept is this > top teir decks into the ban list

[Pemolis]

This ban-list wouldn't've been that hard to do. Let me give you an approximate step-by-step guide:

1) Compile a list of all cards used in every single SJC there ever was.
2) Ban all cards on this compiled list.
3) Compile a list of every "next-best-card" to the cards that were banned in step two.
4) Restrict these "next-best-cards" to one.
5) Semi-restrict any playable cards left.

Or something similar to that...

~AJP.

P.S: Just live with the fact that there will always be a best deck around. Even if you ban every single card apart from fourteen of the weakest vanilla monsters.


Considering I never looked at any SJC lists, or the decks, or the cards played. I came up with this list based on what was being abused in the game at this time.

The fact that they were used in SJC (which I never bothered to look up.. ever) only helps to reinforce my idea's. You do not need to go to Metagame, look up list after list after list of decks and cards, study play strategy to see the apparent flawed cards in the game. Doing such things help, but from just an observation, you can make preliminary findings on what is wrong and what is right. If you dig deeper, you find more reinforcing data to go with the theory.


I expect that 1 deck maybe better than another. I am ok with that. What I am not ok with is that every deck has to run identical cards that every other deck runs in order to be even mildly competative.

I'll give an example. A zombie deck is usually better than most basic fiend decks. Lets agree on that. If we remove the cards from the decks that are on this list, and ask people to rebuild the decks. Would the Zombie Deck still usually be better than the basic fiend deck. In most cases.. yes.

Has the quality/effectiveness of the deck changed? In most regards.. no. Whats changed is the static use of monster/magic/and trap cards. Has the better deck been demoted in any respectful way... no. What was removed from that deck, was "in most present cases" the same things that were removed from the other deck.

Another Example. A Dark Magician Deck against.. a Ritual deck (in this case, lets pick Hungry Burger). Just about 100% of the time, the Dark Magician Deck should beat a Hungry Burger Ritual Deck (Lets agree on that). If we take both decks, remove the cards that are on this list from them, and ask them to reconstruct the deck. Would the Dark Magician deck actually lose power? Would the Hungry Burger Deck Suddenly beat the Dark Magican Deck?

90% of the time, the Dark Magician Deck would still probably win. What was removed from the Dark Magician Deck would be the same cards removed from the Hungry Burger deck (smashing ground, Torrential Tribute, etc). What changed is the usefulness of Hungry Burger, because now Hungry Burger is not as Instantly Destroyed or put under onslaught by the 25 to 50% of removal cards all decks tend to run. Dark Magician gained the same amount of power by the same factor, due to the removal of the easy 1 for 1 cards.

So if they both lost the same amount of power, and both gained the same amount of effectiveness... then the decks themselves lost no potential in being the best they can be (they lost no actual tier), what happened is that the decks would be constructed differently, but the Dark Magician Deck would Still be a dark magician deck, the Hungry burger deck would still be the Hungry Burger Deck, they'd still keep their rankings (Dark Magician Deck Being Higher and More Effective than the Hungry Burger deck).

Did I destroy the Type of Deck? No. Did I Demote the Type of Deck? No. I removed the general use cards that all decks run, which both weakened the deck, and weakened the competition of that deck.

Some decks do get hurt, I won't deny that (warriors lost 2 of their instant removers (MS LVL 2, Sasuke), and their D.D. Monsters). Horus lost the protection of Decree, etc. All decks lost those cards though. Since most decks either maindecked/sidedecked those cards... the loss should be balanced across the deck board. Will some decks get hit. Yes. But that is true for all banlists that come out.

[Rudoku]

Why do you guys reply to threads made by this poster when you know it's going to be another boring Holocaust ban list? I hope it's not for argument or postcount ++ reason. He/She's a one-trick pony and you all know it.

[OrangeEyesRedDragon]

There would be a new CC deck.

Kurt Cobain knows that you wouldn't like such a format. The idea of "everyone would devise their own strategies" sounds tempting, but the truth is, it would suck. And before you know it, there would be a new CC.

[Pemolis]

There would be a new CC deck.


Probably. We'll have to deal with them as they come. But with the present cardpool we have.. they'll never come.

<Note> IF Mirrorforce was unbanned, would there be a new cookie cutter? No. There would be the old cookie cutter cards... +1.

If Smashing Ground Was Banned, would there be a new cookie cutter? Yep. It'd be its next best thing X3. Which is basically, the old cookie cutter.. slight variation.

I am trying to address those basic issues. New CC cards are expected, but for those to come and for the game to move out towards somekind of direction, we have to get rid of the old CC cards.

[Honda Hiroto]

Book of Moon
Call of the Haunted
D.D. Assalaint
D.D. Warrior Lady
D.D. Warrior
Dust Tornado
Fissure
Hammer Shot
Heavy Storm
Mystical Space Typhoon
Nobleman of Crossout
Premature Burial
Sakuretsu Armor
Sangan
Smashing Ground
Snatch Steal
Enemy Controller
Scapegoat
Mobuis the Frost Monarch
Waboku
Threatening Roar
Bottomless Trap Hole
Trap Hole
Lightning Vortex
Yomi Frog
Solemn Judgement
Royal Decree
Jinzo
Brain Control
Airknight
Mystic Swordsman LV2
Drilloid
Ninja Sasuke
Widespread Ruin
Giant Trunade
Spirit Reaper

Why ban? Restrict to one would be fine with these instead.

Banning Dustornado, MST, Heavy Storm, Giant Trunade, Mobius, Royal Decree, Jinzo, with the already banned Harpies is really whack. What do you want the return of trap master? The return of 7 tools of the bandit?

A little overboard.

[DarkMarik]

There would be a new CC deck.

Probably. We'll have to deal with them as they come. But with the present cardpool we have.. they'll never come.

I have read your list Pemolis and your arguements, and I have to say, your arguements don't support why you have banned the cards you have. Sure in some ways you have supported your list, but from what I have gathered from your arguements is that what you hope to accomplish is to ban all CC decks and cards.

Banning cards to eliminate CC decks and CC cards and banning all replacement cards so that people will never use CC decks is nothing but a dream. CC decks and CC cards will always exist even in this banlist. Someone will be able to make a deck that beats all others using your list and then that deck will be copied by a large majority of players so that they could have the hope of being a good player. That deck will then become a CC deck.Then another banlist comes along and bans those cards, and yet another CC deck pops up, taking after the best deck in the meta.

CC decks will never go away. There will always be a CC deck and CC cards that will accompany each new banlist. I hope that I have made a point and a succesful arguement.

Oh, and here is a suggestion of the next mass removal card: Needle Ceiling

[Chaostamer]

Black Luster Soldier-Envoy of the Beginning
Book of Moon
Breaker the Magical Warrior
Butterfly Dagger Elma
Call of the Haunted
Change of Heart
Chaos Emperor Dragon-Envoy of the End
D.D. Assalaint
D.D. Warrior Lady
D.D. Warrior
Delinquent Duo
Dust Tornado
Exiled Force
Fiber Jar
Graceful Charity
Harpie's Feather Duster
Imperial Order
Magical Scientist
Makyura the Destructor
Mirage of Nightmare
Monster Reborn
Painful Choice
Pot of Greed
Raigeki
Ring of Destruction
Sinister Serpent
Tribe Infecting Virus
Witch of the Black Forest
Yata-Garasu
Dark Hole
Fissure
Hammer Shot
Heavy Storm
Mirror Force
Mystical Space Typhoon
Nobleman of Crossout
Premature Burial
Sakuretsu Armor
Sangan
Smashing Ground
Snatch Steal
Torrential Tribute
Tsukuyomi
The Forceful Sentry
Enemy Controller
Scapegoat
Mobuis the Frost Monarch
Waboku
Threatening Roar
Bottomless Trap Hole
Trap Hole
Lightning Vortex
Yomi Frog
Solemn Judgement
Cyber Jar
Royal Decree
Jinzo
Brain Control
Airknight
Mystic Swordsman LV2
Drilloid
Ninja Sasuke
Widespread Ruin
Giant Trunade
Spirit Reaper
Spiritualism
Summon Priests (when it comes out)
Shrink (when it comes out)




Limited:
Messenger of Peace
Creature Swap
Skill Drain
Compulsory Evacuatory Device
Wave Motion Cannon
Book of Taiyou
Card Destruction
Ceasefire
Chaos Sorcerer
Confiscation
Dark Magician of Chaos
Deck Devastation Virus
Exchange of the spirit
Exodia the Forbidden One
Injection Fairy Lily
Left Arm of the Forbidden One
Left Leg of the Forbidde One
Limiter Removal
Mage Power
Magic Cylinder
Magician of Faith
Metamorphosis
Morphing Jar
Night Assailant
Protector of the Sanctuary
Reckless Greed
Reflect Bounder
Right Arm of the Forbidden One
Right Leg of the Forbidden One
Sacred Phoenix of Nephthys
Swords of Revealing Light
Thousand Eyes Restrict
Twin-Headed Behemoth
United We Stand
Gravity Bind
Last Turn
Level Limit-Area B
Manticore of Darkness




Semi-Limited:
Abyss Soilder
Emergency Provisions
Good Goblin Housekeeping
Mystik Wok
Reinforcement of the Army
Upstart Goblin
Warrior Returning Alive




Basic concept of this banlist. Everybody starts fresh and creates a new deck that has all new magic/ traps, and monster cards.

Now THATS a List. Banlist is about 65 cards long. Out of 2000 Choices of cards that can be run in triplets... thats not too bad. Basically one out of every 80 cards were banned, or about 2 cards per set (around that figure).

The most amazing part of it. You might actually SEE a new Magic/Trap Cards being used.

Its drastic, but not far off from Ideal. This is JUST an advanced List Banlist, Modifications can be made for Traditional Play, such as having access to shrink, summon priest, reaper, swordsman, etc etc.

Ummm...That would really be sorta cool, but it would also sorta murder the game...Then again, I've been out of it for way too long anyways.

[topspin1617]

We. Don't. Need. Holocaust. Bans.

There will just be a new CC, but it will take no skill to play because any card that could ever require skill is gone.

The biggest decision would be whether to summon Gemini Elf or Insect Knight.

And what is Summon Priests, anyway? And you didn't ban Sixth Sense either, one of the cards that deserves it more than most of the cards you banned.

[Pemolis]

I am a bit of a all or nothing person. The banlist can be gradual or excessive, but eventually, these bans will have to happen to force people who Play the Advanced Format to play with some other cards becides the Tride and True.

Create a new format.... fine, but something to progress the game beyond recycling on and off 2 to 3 banned cards will have to happen, else nobody will bother to keep playing (cause whatever new idea's people come up with, are immediately crushed due to the basic abused cards in the game). I'll comment more later.

[shnitzo]

I guess you like having 50% of your deck SET IN STONE before you ever start to build it.

I guess you like to see the exact same cards played over and over and over and over and OVER AND OVER AND OVER again.

All I did was move the cards that every deck plays... no matter what the deck, over to the banlist. Then I moved the immediate substitutes over so decks do not merely shift down a card. Then I removed the possible overly abusable cards due to their removal.

Thats all.

yeah this list is what everyone wants. it is so exciting to have to play crap. i am so ready for this to come

[ss4giel]

lol , see here's the problem. If you ban every card that 2 for 1s, there's no more skill in the game. Also, by banning 1 for 1s, people will resort to the next best thing. Ban smashing ground? We'll use Fissure. Ban Fissure? We'll use Hammer Shot. Yugioh is flawed at the core, and banning 100s of cards won't fix that.

[Shizzle]

To many banned cards, it's jsut stupid i bet you more than half of the players will quit.

[StarScream]

Whew. Talk about some drastic measures. Where to start... You do realize that with this list, you made ritual decks one of the fastest types of decks to use, even hangin with warriors, right? Now, as much as I like to have Relequished go SJC, this list isn't the way to go. We need more cards before something remotely close to this happening... How can you promote theme decks when you anihilate most cards people use? I get your point, but the pool that we have is limited and, even though it may be unintentional, geared towards CC. As long as our cardpool stays geared to CC, then that's all that's going to win. But once we get those cards.... Then this list might be just what the game needs to push them to their prime.... But now isn't the time for this...

[Relinquished]

We. Don't. Need. Holocaust. Bans.

There will just be a new CC, but it will take no skill to play because any card that could ever require skill is gone.

The biggest decision would be whether to summon Gemini Elf or Insect Knight.

And what is Summon Priests, anyway? And you didn't ban Sixth Sense either, one of the cards that deserves it more than most of the cards you banned.

Pemolis has already agreed that there will always be a CC. What Pemolis (and myself) want is to not have that CC be light years ahead of any new deck that could be possibly thought up.

I could argue your point of skill. Players have the skill, not the cards. Cards only take common sense to know when to play them. If you give an elite player a deck with mediocre cards and a newb a deck full of good cards; I could garuntee that the elite player would still win.

Also, saying that the game would be reduced to deciding Gemini Elf over Insect Knight is a blatant over exaggeration. Everyone keeps saying that holocaust bans would reduce the game to mindless aggro. The game is already mindless aggro.

If I am wrong on any of this then please explain where I'm wrong and don't just flame. :D

[topspin1617]

Pemolis has already agreed that there will always be a CC. What Pemolis (and myself) want is to not have that CC be light years ahead of any new deck that could be possibly thought up.

I could argue your point of skill. Players have the skill, not the cards. Cards only take common sense to know when to play them. If you give an elite player a deck with mediocre cards and a newb a deck full of good cards; I could garuntee that the elite player would still win.

Also, saying that the game would be reduced to deciding Gemini Elf over Insect Knight is a blatant over exaggeration. Everyone keeps saying that holocaust bans would reduce the game to mindless aggro. The game is already mindless aggro.

If I am wrong on any of this then please explain where I'm wrong and don't just flame. :D


A bunch of the cards he banned don't deserve it.

You want people to use different cards? What happens when another 40 become CC? There will have to be another wave of mass bannings. There will be no cards left to play with in record time.

You can add more skill to the game and make more decks playable by going in the opposite direction: unbanning cards that aren't really problems.

The list I made (here (http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=234245), and if you look you must post your opinion on that thread :D) makes many deck types playable. Chaos, Necrofear, Bazoo, Morph, Aggro, Goat Control, Dark World, E-Hero, Phoenix, Toolbox, FFC, Soul Control, and more are all playable with that list. And it doesn't take mass bannings, you need cards that can support underused deck types.

[SuperJay]

Very extreme list.

It just comes back to my argument:
Ban generic spells and traps, not the abused monsters.

Keep the generic spells and traps banned that cause destruction, including the ressurection spells. Release at the same time Type-specific spells and traps to cover what was banned and then there will be no need to ban any more monsters, just some limiting. No need to ban the generic "stall" cards like threatening roar and waboku as they only stall and not destroy.

Presently, the top SJC decks have at least 5 types of monsters in their decks, some have more, some have less. Warriors (DD family, Don, marauding), Machines (Cybers, maybe reflect bounder & Jinzo), Zombie (spirit reaper), Spellcasters (breaker, maybe lily), Aquas (mobius), etc.

Presently, generic spells and traps benefit people from running 5+ different types of monsters in a deck.

But what if all generic spells and traps were banned, including all S/T destruction, monster destruction, drawing cards, ressurection/recursion cards, etc, and replaced with type-specific cards created to cover all these areas?
Don't you think people would be more inclined to run a max. of 1 or 2 types of monsters in their decks?

Right now, if Cyber/Jinzo/Mobius/Airknight/Chaos Sorcerer are destroyed, you can revive them easily with a premature or call.
What if the ressurection cards were type dependant? Then players would be forced to choose one type of monster for their high level monster slots to benefit from the ressurection card or risk an extremely bad topdeck.
The same would apply to the lower level monsters.
Would you run Warriors, zombies, spellcasters, dragons, beast-warriors, fiends, etc., in a beatdown deck if your revival, S/T destruction, monster destruction, draw power, etc, was type-dependant? It would lead to horrible situations where you have mis-matching monsters in hand, grave or field that may not work with the S/T you drew.

What if you are required to remove a fiend from play to use that type-specific snatch steal?

Such a change in the game's mechanics would really revialize it and make players more inclined to play and compete.

KoJ really needs to step up to the plate and do an expansion set to address this problem and fix the game rather then expland the "band-aid" ban list. Expansion sets!!!!! Come on KoJ/UDE!

-SuperJay

[Pemolis]

Still fighting the good fight.

Eitherway, We all want Konami/upperdeck to release better cards that have restrictive elements about them (IE, Theme the cards). We see Konami slowely doing this, but they also seem content to continue to release generic/fit all deck cards, which I expect the soon to release yomigaeru to become of those select elite. They've slowed down, but are just continuing to release these absolute themeless cards.

I do not know if Konami has the nerve, capability, or desire to ever go towards consistency within theme in this game. If not, then Upperdeck will have to inch towards what I proposed in this list just to regain some sort of control over what is being played in the game. This means bigger banlists eitherway.

[Paladinseer007]

To many banned cards, it's jsut stupid i bet you more than half of the players will quit.

I agree with that, with the current state of the banlist right now I seriously doubt that their will be a whole lot of players since a lot of the cards that were once used like, BLS , pot of greed, mirror force, etc. :D

[liammc13]

if this ban llist happened i would play traditional

sorry but way to many banned cards and looking at it dark world would proberly become cc as you havent banned any of the dark world cards

[Landstar 01]

Cool, this would hardly affect me. I run an E-Hero deck, and the only cards in my deck I can find on there are DDWL, a few spells, and is Sangan in there?

[topspin1617]

Okay, a CC:

Monsters: 21
Goblin Attack Force x 3
Goblin Elite Attack Force x 3
Indomitable Fighter Lei-Lei x 3
Bazoo the Soul Eater x 3
Injection Fairy Lily
Marauding Captain x 3
Morphing Jar
Sasuke Samurai
Don Zaloog x 3

Spells: 11
Nobleman of Extermination x 3
Confiscation
United We Stand
Mage Power
Reinforcement of the Army x 2
Mind Control x 2
Swords of Revealing Light

Traps: 8
Seven Tools of the Bandit x 2
Spiritual Earth Art-Kurogane x 3
Return from the Different Dimension x 3

[Upsidedownwurld]

Yes, they're going to ban all of this stuff.

Banned:
Black Luster Soldier-Envoy of the Beginning
Book of Moon (Why?)
Breaker the Magical Warrior (Why?)
Butterfly Dagger Elma
Call of the Haunted (Why?)
Change of Heart
Chaos Emperor Dragon-Envoy of the End
D.D. Assalaint (Why?)
D.D. Warrior Lady (Why?)
D.D. Warrior (Why?)
Delinquent Duo
Dust Tornado (Why?)
Exiled Force (Why?)
Fiber Jar
Graceful Charity
Harpie's Feather Duster
Imperial Order
Magical Scientist
Makyura the Destructor
Mirage of Nightmare
Monster Reborn
Painful Choice
Pot of Greed
Raigeki
Ring of Destruction
Sinister Serpent
Tribe Infecting Virus
Witch of the Black Forest
Yata-Garasu
Dark Hole (Why?)
Fissure (Why?)
Hammer Shot (Why?)
Heavy Storm (Why?)
Mirror Force
Mystical Space Typhoon (Why?)
Nobleman of Crossout (Why?)
Premature Burial (Why?)
Sakuretsu Armor (Why?)
Sangan (Why?)
Smashing Ground (Why?)
Snatch Steal (Why?)
Torrential Tribute (Why?)
Tsukuyomi (Why?)
The Forceful Sentry
Enemy Controller
Scapegoat (Why?)
Mobuis the Frost Monarch (Why?)
Waboku (Why?)
Threatening Roar
Bottomless Trap Hole (Why?)
Trap Hole (Why?)
Lightning Vortex (Why?)
Yomi Frog (Why?)
Solemn Judgement (Why?)
Cyber Jar (Why?)
Royal Decree (Why?)
Jinzo (Why?)
Brain Control (Why?)
Airknight (Why?)
Mystic Swordsman LV2 (Why?)
Drilloid (Why?)
Ninja Sasuke (Why?)
Widespread Ruin (Why?)
Giant Trunade (Why?)
Spirit Reaper (Why?)
Spiritualism
Summon Priests (when it comes out) (Why?)
Shrink (when it comes out) (Why?)

What are you smoking? Must be that illegal stuff. Anyways too many banned cards.

[Pemolis]

Okay, a CC:

Monsters: 21
Goblin Attack Force x 3
Goblin Elite Attack Force x 3
Indomitable Fighter Lei-Lei x 3
Bazoo the Soul Eater x 3
Injection Fairy Lily
Marauding Captain x 3
Morphing Jar
Sasuke Samurai
Don Zaloog x 3

Spells: 11
Nobleman of Extermination x 3
Confiscation
United We Stand
Mage Power
Reinforcement of the Army x 2
Mind Control x 2
Swords of Revealing Light

Traps: 8
Seven Tools of the Bandit x 2
Spiritual Earth Art-Kurogane x 3
Return from the Different Dimension x 3

Typical bazoo deck, centered around Return from the different dimension. Lets see what can counter this.

Ordeal of the Traveler
Dark Door
Royal Oppression
Mirror Wall
Something like Curse of Anubis
Even Retrained Celtic Guardian can block it all.
prohibition
Horn of heaven
AAU (if you are that worried about lily, take it from them in the gy)
Necrovalley
etc etc etc.

your point?!?


Upsidedownwurld please read this from the beginning, I've already posted why those cards were selected.

[Pat_Smith]

1cardperdeck.dek

[neowater]

Black Luster Soldier-Envoy of the Beginning
Book of Moon
Breaker the Magical Warrior
Butterfly Dagger Elma
Call of the Haunted
Change of Heart
Chaos Emperor Dragon-Envoy of the End
D.D. Assalaint
D.D. Warrior Lady
D.D. Warrior
Delinquent Duo
Dust Tornado
Exiled Force
Fiber Jar
Graceful Charity
Harpie's Feather Duster
Imperial Order
Magical Scientist
Makyura the Destructor
Mirage of Nightmare
Monster Reborn
Painful Choice
Pot of Greed
Raigeki
Ring of Destruction
Sinister Serpent
Tribe Infecting Virus
Witch of the Black Forest
Yata-Garasu
Dark Hole
Fissure
Hammer Shot
Heavy Storm
Mirror Force
Mystical Space Typhoon
Nobleman of Crossout
Premature Burial
Sakuretsu Armor
Sangan
Smashing Ground
Snatch Steal
Torrential Tribute
Tsukuyomi
The Forceful Sentry
Enemy Controller
Scapegoat
Mobuis the Frost Monarch
Waboku
Threatening Roar
Bottomless Trap Hole
Trap Hole
Lightning Vortex
Yomi Frog
Solemn Judgement
Cyber Jar
Royal Decree
Jinzo
Brain Control
Airknight
Mystic Swordsman LV2
Drilloid
Ninja Sasuke
Widespread Ruin
Giant Trunade
Spirit Reaper
Spiritualism
Summon Priests (when it comes out)
Shrink (when it comes out)

You know theyve gone overboard when Spiritualismn appears on the Forbidden list...

Drilloid?
Mobius?
FISSURE ?!

Hey, wheres Kozaky on this list? That might appear in a deck, why isnt it banned aswell?

[Pat_Smith]

You know theyve gone overboard when Spiritualismn appears on the Forbidden list...

Drilloid?
Mobius?
FISSURE ?!

Hey, wheres Kozaky on this list? That might appear in a deck, why isnt it banned aswell?

I concur? hM.

[kingofgames3]

Ok, so this list would make Beatdown be the CC again??? Good job. /sarcasm

Ok, I'll play along. Here is a deck idea that I just though for this list:

Monsters: 19
Viser Shock
Thestalos the Firestorm Monarch
Thestalos the Firestorm Monarch
Stealth Bird
Stealth Bird
Stealth Bird
Newdoria
Newdoria
Reflect Bounder
Magician of Faith
Des Koala
Des Koala
Des Koala
Magical Merchant
Magical Merchant
Magical Merchant
Injection Fairy Lily
Mystic Tomato
Mystic Tomato

Spells: 13
Nobleman of Extermination
Nobleman of Extermination
Confiscation
United We Stand
Card Destruction
Nightmare's Steelcage
Nightmare's Steelcage
Swords of Revealing Light
Messenger of Peace
Level Limit Area-B
The Shallow Grave
The Shallow Grave
Wave-Motion Cannon

Traps: 8
Magic Cylinder
Dimensional Wall
Dimensional Wall
Nightmare Wheel
Nightmare Wheel
Nightmare Wheel
Gravity Bind
Ceasefire

Side Deck: 15
Don Zaloog
Don Zaloog
Don Zaloog
Sasuke Samurai
Obnoxious Celtic Guardian
Obnoxious Celtic Guardian
Ekibyo Drakmore
Ekibyo Drakmore
The Dark Door
The Dark Door
Royal Oppresion
Royal Oppresion
Horn of Heaven
Horn of Heaven
Horn of Heaven

[Romancer]

Spiritualism? The spell card that no one plays that is non-negatable and sends 1 S/T card on your opponet's side of the field back to their hand? Banned? This is the only thing on this list that scares me, because I've never seen anyone play it, not even when it first came out. It's like Giant Trunade's crippled ******ed little brother... Why would you ban the Tiny Tim of S/T removal?

[topspin1617]

Typical bazoo deck, centered around Return from the different dimension. Lets see what can counter this.

Ordeal of the Traveler
Dark Door
Royal Oppression
Mirror Wall
Something like Curse of Anubis
Even Retrained Celtic Guardian can block it all.
prohibition
Horn of heaven
AAU (if you are that worried about lily, take it from them in the gy)
Necrovalley
etc etc etc.

your point?!?

Those can counter it now, but I don't see anyone trying that.

And it doesn't have to use Bazoo, it's just a bonus. This deck can beat you down with or without RftDD.

[Pemolis]

Those can counter it now, but I don't see anyone trying that.

And it doesn't have to use Bazoo, it's just a bonus. This deck can beat you down with or without RftDD.

Because everybody is stuck in the motion of playing Smashing, Sakuesku, dark hole, heavy storm, etc etc etc.

You do understand the Basic argument here right? Eventually, this will have to happen, regardless if Konami makes Theme based CC cards or not.

[topspin1617]

Because everybody is stuck in the motion of playing Smashing, Sakuesku, dark hole, heavy storm, etc etc etc.

You do understand the Basic argument here right? Eventually, this will have to happen, regardless if Konami makes Theme based CC cards or not.

There is no reason for this to happen. I have presented a CC that works with this list, so it is ineffective at stoppong CCs.

We should have multiple deck types doing well because they are strong and well supported, not equally weak.

[Relinquished]

When more than 50% of the card pool is splashable diversity and originality are just dreams. The ban/restricted list can only go so far (and we might be at that point), it's up to Konami to do the rest :( .

[Waboku]

Pemolis,

What are you trying to do? Make this format so we have to be beating each other with COMMONs? Come on! Limit Needle Ceiling? BAN Spiritualism? Rofl xD. Please, when you can make a more decent list that konami could consider , please come back. Otherwiswe you have done nothing except given me a good laugh. Plus Konami can only go so far. Ending,

Waboku.

[Injured_Status]

*Examines list carefully* I was almost sure you'd do something about Cyber Dragon when you have all that stuff.

[Pemolis]

*Examines list carefully* I was almost sure you'd do something about Cyber Dragon when you have all that stuff.

I'm so flip/flopped about that card actually. To deal with that, gotta deal with a few other cards too. Still with the newer cyber dragons comming out, it might be a good idea to restrict it to 1. Aaah yea, got a fix for one other problem too (will update list). For those who are a bit obsessed with the whole beatdown thing.

[Chaosangel777]

These " I make my own ban list thread " are starting to get on my nerves everytime I check the banned/restricted list discussions there's one of these stupid threads around. To the thread starter that ban list DOES suck! Are you a n00b!?

[Pemolis]

These " I make my own ban list thread " are starting to get on my nerves everytime I check the banned/restricted list discussions there's one of these stupid threads around. To the thread starter that ban list DOES suck! Are you a n00b!?

I'm not the one with Pojo Newbie under my Name.

[Tohma]

Well, your idea of a ban list has just nuked sixty-two percent of my deck. That's including the side deck. The point of the ban list is to ruin the most immediate and dominating deck type. The October list did that to Chaos and to the one-turn-kill Cookie Jar. It also resulting in weaking other deck types as a precaution. The next list we can hope to see a few of the more dominating cards restricted, such as Sakuretsu Armor and Smashing Ground to name a couple.

And as for your comment Pemolis, a person with "Pojo Newbie" as their title could be far more knowledgable than you are. It's not about titles in the real world.

[Pemolis]

Well, your idea of a ban list has just nuked sixty-two percent of my deck. That's including the side deck. The point of the ban list is to ruin the most immediate and dominating deck type. The October list did that to Chaos and to the one-turn-kill Cookie Jar. It also resulting in weaking other deck types as a precaution. The next list we can hope to see a few of the more dominating cards restricted, such as Sakuretsu Armor and Smashing Ground to name a couple.

And as for your comment Pemolis, a person with "Pojo Newbie" as their title could be far more knowledgable than you are. It's not about titles in the real world.

The previous poster titled me a "n00b!?". I merely replied defending myself. I would suggest you speak to the other poster in private to resolve their issue with "the real world".


But on your first bit. Taking your opinion on how the banlist works, I can honestly say, then what I did was right. Now I say that in this sense:

Come nextbanlist, lets say they ban the big issue cards "sakuesku armor/smashing, a few others". Which would take their place?

Fissure, Waboku, etc etc. In otherwords, the next best thing. Continuing down that path, another 6 months pass, and a new list is created to "ruin the most played decktype". In those decktypes, contain Fissure, waboku, etc etc "the majority of the next best cards". By this theory, they would also be banned. And so on and so on. In a way, you can say that I merely saved the game about 1 to 2 years of time and waiting. Now I don't mean to twist your words around because you did write a good, well formed reply, outside of the last comment.


I originally just wanted decks to "Look" different. in otherwords, I wanted to play against decks that ran ANYTHING besides the tride and true. That meant restricting the base play cards that everybody tends to abuse (sakuesku, smashing, you know the deal). What I ran into is that within a week or so of that comming out, everybody would already predesign their deck with set Deck Based Cards. This means that sakuesku, got replaced by another card. Smashing ground gets replaced with fissure, etc etc. Almost no regard would be put into actual deck creativity. All that would happen is that the same cards would be played by everybody over and over and over again. After getting hit by my 500th smashing ground, I got sick of it. I also know that once smashing was banned, I'd get sick of getting hit by Hammershot over and over again. So I merely (and this is ALL I did) took the most played cards, banned them, found their Next of Kin, and banned them, then found the 2nd cousins, and banned them. The whole purpose of this was to bring Deck Building Outside of the Family of cards which has been THE CHOICE for all decks.

This whole list was devised for this goal, to see something else in a deck. ANYTHING else.

Decks are stagnant, deck building isn't based on creativity, or enginuity, but on static, overused and overplayed, basic deck Templates. Gameplay isn't based on unique strategies, cool plays, or new themes, but on the same cards, the same attacks, the same counters. Its a carbon copy of itself all over the place, and 1 to 2 modifications in a banlist won't change it to any significant degree.


I wrote a post dictating what would be the new "Deck Template" for all of yugioh when this banlist came out. Yes I was flamed, belittled, and the such, but 80 to 90% of that post was dead-on.

That template was posted on 08-25-2005, 11:56 PM

If you'd like to see it, here ya go (http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=197690&highlight=Template)

I've been looking at this for a long time, and it is pretty easy to guess what becomes the next deck staple before a banlist comes out. When the new ones comes out, I'll just make another "Deck Template" post and make my points. Unless you can come up with something constructive that addresses all the aspects of a post and not just 1 miniscule issue (like screaming that it sucks cause of 1 card), then you have no actual argument at all.

Noob me all you want (as they did), but I am still right.

[Absolute Gloska]

I guess you like having 50% of your deck SET IN STONE before you ever start to build it.

I guess you like to see the exact same cards played over and over and over and over and OVER AND OVER AND OVER again.

All I did was move the cards that every deck plays... no matter what the deck, over to the banlist. Then I moved the immediate substitutes over so decks do not merely shift down a card. Then I removed the possible overly abusable cards due to their removal.

Thats all.
That's Hitler talk is all.

Perfectly harmless.

[Tohma]

Come nextbanlist, lets say they ban the big issue cards "sakuesku armor/smashing, a few others". Which would take their place?

What takes their place is the things that closely rememble them and still work. Sakuretsu Armor will be replaced by Compulsory Evacuation Device, Waboku or Threatening Roar. Smashing Ground will be replaced by Fissure or Hammer Shot. That's how things work. If you can't have what's best, go for the next best thing.

By this theory, they would also be banned. And so on and so on. In a way, you can say that I merely saved the game about 1 to 2 years of time and waiting.

If you truly looked at this closely, then you'd have also realized that by restricted everything that even remotely resembles Sakuretsu Armor, Smashing Ground, ex cetera, all at once, you would have single-handedly and ultimately murdered the game. Hell, not just murdered but murdered with significant overkill. For all your preaching about wanting to bring the fun and originality back into the game, what's the point if you tear the entire thing up and **** all over it?

The previous poster titled me a "n00b!?". I merely replied defending myself. I would suggest you speak to the other poster in private to resolve their issue with "the real world".

I myself have "Pojo Noob" as my title, and yet here I am intelligently arguing and almost definitely defeating whatever point you can possibly make against me. Why? Because I'm able to understand that you can't possibly change everything all at once. The ban list is changed to give people a new look at the game. That's why you see slight changes to each list instead of your horrendous butchering of a card game as well as thought itself. If the ban list were to go from its current twenty-three cards to your sixty-something, the power shift is just too immense for anyone to handle except for the original creator of the list and as such it forces only one option: Complete removal from the game. People quit when the first list was released. The hit was just too great for them to handle and they left the dueling circle. With each list, more and more people quit because the stuff that's being banned they've either become too attached to or can't think of anything that can possibly come close to it and either temporarily or permanently remove themselves from the game.

[Pemolis]

If you truly looked at this closely, then you'd have also realized that by restricted everything that even remotely resembles Sakuretsu Armor, Smashing Ground, ex cetera, all at once, you would have single-handedly and ultimately murdered the game. Hell, not just murdered but murdered with significant overkill. For all your preaching about wanting to bring the fun and originality back into the game, what's the point if you tear the entire thing up and **** all over it?.

Apparently you didn't look closer enough. I'll quote it out of myself.

I originally just wanted decks to "Look" different. in otherwords, I wanted to play against decks that ran ANYTHING besides the tride and true. That meant restricting the base play cards that everybody tends to abuse (sakuesku, smashing, you know the deal). What I ran into is that within a week or so of that comming out, everybody would already predesign their deck with set Deck Based Cards. This means that sakuesku, got replaced by another card. Smashing ground gets replaced with fissure, etc etc. Almost no regard would be put into actual deck creativity. All that would happen is that the same cards would be played by everybody over and over and over again. After getting hit by my 500th smashing ground, I got sick of it. I also know that once smashing was banned, I'd get sick of getting hit by Hammershot over and over again. So I merely (and this is ALL I did) took the most played cards, banned them, found their Next of Kin, and banned them, then found the 2nd cousins, and banned them. The whole purpose of this was to bring Deck Building Outside of the Family of cards which has been THE CHOICE for all decks.

This whole list was devised for this goal, to see something else in a deck. ANYTHING else.

Decks are stagnant, deck building isn't based on creativity, or enginuity, but on static, overused and overplayed, basic deck Templates. Gameplay isn't based on unique strategies, cool plays, or new themes, but on the same cards, the same attacks, the same counters. Its a carbon copy of itself all over the place, and 1 to 2 modifications in a banlist won't change it to any significant degree.

... that was substantially large.. and a bit difficult to miss, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt. I bolded the point for easy reading.



I myself have "Pojo Noob" as my title,... I am not discussing this anymore, I suggest you drop it.

The ban list is changed to give people a new look at the game. That's why you see slight changes to each list instead of your horrendous butchering of a card game as well as thought itself. If the ban list were to go from its current twenty-three cards to your sixty-something, the power shift is just too immense for anyone to handle except for the original creator of the list and as such it forces only one option: Complete removal from the game. People quit when the first list was released. The hit was just too great for them to handle and they left the dueling circle. With each list, more and more people quit because the stuff that's being banned they've either become too attached to or can't think of anything that can possibly come close to it and either temporarily or permanently remove themselves from the game.


I am not going to comment on what people did when the list came out because honestly, I don't know. I do know people who have quit because they saw the same exact thing played over and over again and just got bored with it. I don't know anybody who quit cause a card got banned. Now I am sure there are people who have quit due to the first banlist. There were people who also quit before the banlist ever existed due to staleness, overplayed cards, and frustrating situations. What isn't mentioned is that people CAME BACK when the banlist was introduced. As people leave because of a banlist, people will also return due to that same reason. Again whether my list promotes that or not, I can't say. The same propoganda was spewed when the first list was discussed, and the same propoganda was said when the new list that banned Tribe and Pot was also there. Too many people say "I quit", yet we don't hear people say "I've joined". Most don't because either they'll be berated as a newbie, harassed cause of the reason for joining, or just want to blend into the crowd and share their idea's with everybody.

My point is, there are people who have joined the game because of the banlist and people who have left the game cause of the banlist.

But like I said.. I people leave the game, and people rejoin the game. A banlist that effects only the advanced deckbuilding part of the game is hardly the reason to state that though.

[x TaCo x]

i totally agree with the banning of giant trunade that card is jsut SOOOOOOOOOO powerful and its definitely CC, and good thing spiritualism is gone, gosh i had that played on me every time and regionals. and finally konami chose sweet cards to ban cuz they are so so broken, for example hammer shot is jus way too good to be used. geesh who woulda known.

Seriously r u kidding me with this banlist?

[Tohma]

.
... that was substantially large.. and a bit difficult to miss, but I'll give the benefit of the doubt. I bolded the point for easy reading.

Apparently you've failed to notice that I had in fact addressed your saying that banning the cards that have similar effects to the "overpowered" and "overused" cards. As such, I'll say it again in simplier terms: Banning the immediate relation to a certain card without even seeing how it much it's abused does not work and is completely senseless. So Smashing Ground can kill, on average, your tank. Ban that and you have Fissure, which will generally kill the smallest and most worthless monster on your opponent's field. As such, Fissure requires a little more planning than Smashin Ground does. You would have to attack and destroy all of the monsters on your opponent's field that you don't want Fissure affected and then play Fissure. What could happen during your onslaught? Why, you could run into a Sakuretsu Armor or two. Or even a Compulsory Evacuation Device. ****, even Threatening Roar can ruin your plans. The main point is that no matter how overused some of these cards are, a good many of them still require precise judgment in order to use correctly otherwise you might just end up screwing yourself into a corner. I'll admit that I'd be annoyed too if I got Smashing Grounded for the five-hundredth time, but you know what sets us apart? The fact that I know that my opponent will end up having to face my Sakuretsu Armor for the five-hundredth time when he decides to attack. Again, the point of the ban list is to help bring balance to the game and force people to try new ideas. Banning too many cards at once will cause an gigantic upset in the gaming community because people will end up having to spend months building, play testing and rebuilding decks in order to actually find something that works and works well. And then what? The new stuff that was found out with result in the spawning of another ********* like you saying that we should ban everything that's ran in multiples and the thirty cards that are similar to it.

[Relinquished]

Pemolis, I understand your desire for diversity, but after I read some other posts and did some thinking I came to the conclusion that I posted on the previous page. Since you didn't respond to it I'll assume that maybe you missed it.

When more than 50% of the card pool is splashable diversity and originality are just dreams. The ban/restricted list can only go so far (and we might be at that point), it's up to Konami to do the rest :( .

Even with your ban list there would be no diversity. Eventually it would come down to cards like Parasite Paracide being in every deck (lessens your opponents options, becomes a dead draw for them, 1000 damage). The only way to promote diversity is to either ban all splashable cards (which would cut our card pool in half at the least), or for Konami to create theme based cards that overshadow the abused cards (following past trends it seems this will never happen).

With diversity being almost impossible to achieve I think the best option at this point is to shift the game from mindless aggro to a thought out battle. The best way to do this is to bring back all of the mass removal and ban the 1 for 1s. Some people may not agree with this method but it would work.

[StarScream]

Well this is my idea banlist.....

Forbidden



Limited



Restricted


.........
Wondering why there's nothing there? Because I want the game to be fresh, where every card has the potential to be great and used. I agree with you man.... and disagree. A holocaust banning like this just may happen with the way things are, but someone already said it: banning cards is just a temporary fix. Something SEVERE must commence before this game can regain the luster that it once had. CED is a very powerful card, but what if there was a monster that can only be summoned if there was an insect on the field, had an atk and def of 4500, same effect as CED and can't be effected by opponent's spell, trap or monster cards? Let's throw a bone in there and make it a 10 star special summon only if an Ulitmate Insect of level 5 or higher was on the field.... would anyone splash it? No? See what I mean? Cards have to be beyond broken or very close to it to be noticed nowadays. But don't get me wrong, some cards was never designed to be broken, but made into a theme deck, but ended up that way anyway. CyberDragon is a perfect example of this. All these cards coming out for it in the next set.... and I bet hardly anyone would care considering how strong it is by itself. Who needs a nomi monster when one of the requirements is a decent beatstick on its own?
But I digress. Banning cards is never the answer. As it stands, this game has only two options to save itself right now. The temporary answer is ban more cards. Truth of the matter is, since card power has been scaled since IOC, we need a bigger, MUCH bigger, card pool. That's the only real choice the game has right now. Theme decks need FAR more support than what they currently have, as well as a bigger payoff for using them. What's the point of bringing VWXYZ to the field if my opponent is just gonna laugh and X-Force it? Rituals and Fusions also need more support, especially since there are some VERY powerful rituals and fusions, yet impossible to use competively. Wow, I got both Cyber Blader and Reshef on the field, my opponent smirks and drops a Dark Hole, but i laugh and activate this new trap card that can only be used if a monster has been properly fusion/ritual summoned, and negate the spell card.. Cards like those is what this game needs. Cards that make it worth it and realistic to play it in the first place.
As for this list........ I just don't think this is the answer. We got to have more ways and answers to fixing this game than thi... what's that Konami? Its more profitable to do it like this? Sounds fishy to me......

[Mystic Gohan]

HolyDraconus- How does your list deal with FTK per say?

[StarScream]

Depends on if its a true FTK or a OTK. OTKs are easier to deal with (like Cyber Stein for example) so an explanation isn't needed. But a real, true FTK? To be honest I haven't seen one. Even Magical Scientist isn't a FTK because you have to have all the cards needed to get it to work. Besides, last time I played MS the guy had a swamped hand with stuff he couldn't use because of Mask of Restrict and Imperial Order. So give me an idea of a real FTK and I will give an example of how to deal with it.

[Mystic Gohan]

Exchange of the spirit, Magical scientist (more reliable than you think).

[StarScream]

Like I said MS isn't a real FTK since it relies to much on the cards in your hand. A FTK in my opinion is a win that will ALWAYS be playable on the FIRST TURN. MS isn't one if there is the possibility of it not being able to go off on the first turn. You can run three Last Wills and Reloads if you want, but if those cards fail to appear in your hand on the first turn then there is still the possibility of winning that way still, but not of a FTK. And as much as I like using Exchange of Spirit, it's not a FTK either. Now please give me an example of a real FTK in my view of it and I will relate how this format will handle it.

[Mystic Gohan]

Then it is just a matter of opinions. I call them FTK because they can consistently win on the first turn more than other decks. With 3 pot, 3 graceful, 3 painful choice it becomes even easier to go off first turn than before.

[StarScream]

But how strong would pot be if there was a card that can only be used if you had a reptile on the field and allows you to draw 5 cards? Remember this format is under the idea that we have a MUCH larger pool of cards, which mean more answers to things like that.

[drgnslyr730]

and here we have someone who apparently like a bunch of other people feel the need to ban a card(s) that they just lost to.

[L2theZ]

Ok Pemolis in previous posts you have said that you want big limits on the 1:1 removal, and you also want no 1:2's to exist, so tell me, how are the good players suppost to gain any advantage on their opponets in your proposed format?

[drgnslyr730]

Ok Pemolis in previous posts you have said that you want big limits on the 1:1 removal, and you also want no 1:2's to exist, so tell me, how are the good players suppost to gain any advantage on their opponets in your proposed format?
your not. you use things like giant orc, geaf, gaf, and when people start whining that theres no removal for these things ban these and we got no game. its people that want cards that they just lost to banned that make the game no fun.

[Mystic Gohan]

HolyDraconus- Thats assuming they even make something like that. Until then 3 pots will rule.

[Pemolis]

Pemolis, I understand your desire for diversity, but after I read some other posts and did some thinking I came to the conclusion that I posted on the previous page. Since you didn't respond to it I'll assume that maybe you missed it.

Actually I did read it. You made a genuine and concise point. Its hard to disagree with everybody (cause I only have so much time to spend on these boards). Its up to Konami/Upperdeck, to that I have no argument.


Even with your ban list there would be no diversity. Eventually it would come down to cards like Parasite Paracide being in every deck (lessens your opponents options, becomes a dead draw for them, 1000 damage). The only way to promote diversity is to either ban all splashable cards (which would cut our card pool in half at the least), or for Konami to create theme based cards that overshadow the abused cards (following past trends it seems this will never happen).

Your actually mixing in two major points which were brought up earlier in this thread (its alot to go through I know). For something like this to go forward, I agree that there will have to be more cards based solely on theme support (and I mean in total can only be played with that theme). Again I have no argument on that issue. The other is the Banning of Splashable cards. Before I actually address that, I need to note that Splashable does not mean I want to ban it. Splashable that Every Deck Uses and sees it as a Necessity, those I tend to want to restrict/ban. This list is a preliminary to see how the game would evolve beyond the typical "All Generic Card" decks. I did this using the only means of card control available in the game At this time, and that is through use of the banlist. Now, most trap/magic cards are splashable to a degree, but there is an extent to which a card just goes past splashable to being a deck requirement. But to the main point, I am not against splashable cards, but more against generic "fit in all decks" and "use in all decks" cards. These tend to lean more towards the splashable cards.



With diversity being almost impossible to achieve I think the best option at this point is to shift the game from mindless aggro to a thought out battle. The best way to do this is to bring back all of the mass removal and ban the 1 for 1s. Some people may not agree with this method but it would work.

Well it is your opinion that diversity in the game is almost impossible though the use of banlists (least I can assume that is what you mean). I believe that a great degree of diversity can be achieved though such actions. But I can honestly say that Swapping one Mindless Card (Raigeki) for another mindless card (Smashing Ground) makes no sense, especially when trying to switch from mindless agroo (which as someone said, is already happening), to a more thought out battle (which bringing back mass removal will not achieve, not by any longshot that can be observed. I look at traditional card decks that have access to these cards.. and most are carbon copies of themselves. These mass removal cards have not helped them in anyway switch from mindless agroo to a more thought out battle.


and here we have someone who apparently like a bunch of other people feel the need to ban a card(s) that they just lost to.

Yes that I've lost to, that you've lost to, that everybody at the local tournaments lose to, in casual play loses to, that you've used and have had people lose to you.... you realise everybody's losing to the same thing.

The Same Thing.. That is my problem (one of many).


HolyDraconus, Mystic Gohan.....

Holy, Konami/Upperdeck ran the risk of completely losing the game before the banlist came out. People got utterly sick of fighting the same exact thing. Skill "Yes Skill" and enginuity flew out the door, and it got pointless to play the game cause of the same old cards being used over and over again. This is what I observed before the list came out.

The banlist is needed, and it isn't going to be removed to any extent. To bring life to a game, you don't bring back the cards that brought it near death.

Also. Even if there was a card "reptile that let you draw 5 cards", nothing would actually stop a person from playing Pot of Greed Anyway. The last format had Morphing Jar. Now people who play morphing jar don't forsake the use of pot of greed, they just add it to their deck without even a thought. Same thing applies to the reptile 5 card thing. Its going to take a TON of cards just to get people away from using the regular cards everybody is acustomed to.

[L2theZ]

Wow I was ignored, and seriously, Pemolis needs to not have any huge imput on this game since he has probably never done better than X-2 at a Regional.

[drgnslyr730]

Yes that I've lost to, that you've lost to, that everybody at the local tournaments lose to, in casual play loses to, that you've used and have had people lose to you.... you realise everybody's losing to the same thing.

The Same Thing.. That is my problem (one of many).
i dont lose to things like those that you banned as often as i do things that i wasnt expecting. i dont go to tournaments and expect to sweep it. i go for the fun of playing the game. winning is fun but so is figuring out ways to counter another persons assault with certain cards. when you be like one of the only places i go to for tournaments and see the person in charge making his own banlist, using certain field thingys and deck masters it makes me a little mad. in my eye that just says "i suck and dont know how to play this game without making it to where im in complete control of everything." that is what this list you made reminds me of.

EDIT: limiter13: i wish i would do better than X-3 at a regional but no i get things like my opponents snatch steal to win the game or things like that.

[Paladinseer007]

Opinions are fine, but we cannot speak for other people, only ourselves. The question for you is. Would you quit cause you cannot use heavy storm and call of the haunted, or are you man enough to morph your playstyle and deck to use other cards becides the ones that were already predefined in your deck before you ever constructed it?.



Fixed that, should have been 1




I am just cutting off a "Possible" problem card. People are going to look for quick and easy removals, and the closest thing they can find to a 1 for 1 (or in this case, a 1 for 0 that cannot be stopped). Do you have any other arguement becides that 1 card? Or is that 1 card the only reason you are posting?




After heavy storm, whats the next best field clearer. Giant Trunade. I just cut off the "next best thing". GT would be a maindecked card if it wasn't for Heavy Storm in this format ("This is my estimate").



First off, I am not your friend.
Secondly, I do not do drugs.
Thirdly, whether a list like this would happen or not no one really knows. The point is that this specific list targets the main problems in the present game at this time. Those problems are the static use of specific cards in all deck, the massive abuse of 1 for 1 cards, the overuse of destruction based cards, and the possible replacement to such cards WHEN they do get banned/restricted.

Okay, in response to what your have said, I would have to say that would consider quitting because of your really ridiculous list that would make more people actually quit the game. And I really do agree with everyone on the matter that your list sucks. :mad:

[StarScream]

Tell me which sounds more profitable, makin new cards as strong as the old, or tellin players they can't use old cards and pratically forcing them to buy new cards just to stay competitive? Let it simmer on the top of your head for a moment. Easy really. Konami/UDE is a corporation/s, and as such is more concerned about that dollar than anything else. They saw banning as a good fix to the situation, instead of addressing the problem head on and making cards that can hang with the old, or/and cards that support originality and themes. Now don't get me wrong, some cards were never intended this way( case in point Cyber Dragon), but was used that way anyway. Lets look at a card that was overlooked. Primal Seed. This card's whole purpose was to help make a theme deck focused on The Beginning and The End. Anyone use it when they used either of the original chaos monsters? Well, too late now, since they are both banned. Problem is, is now with the two cards that it was used for gone, it heralds as the first of soon to be many cards that were turned into so much cardboard by the banlist. That is why I think that the banlist needs to go... Now wait, I'm not saying lets revert the game to Traditionals, where everyone runs the same deck with minute differences, I'm saying that because our cardpool is so small, we HAVE to use the banlist. What I'm trying to say is with a large enough pool of cards, banlists should be a thing of the past, but even with more cards if there is no support for themes and originality, then more cards will just become more cards no one uses because certain cards are so strong its splashable. and Pemolis, that's what I was trying to say. With our cardpool the way it is we need it, but we need more cards so we can do away with it.

[Zenox]

With this banlist, burn would win EVERY tournament. No burn cards were banned, and most burn removal cards were banned.

[Mystic Gohan]

HolyDraconus- It would actually be more profitable for them to make us buy the new packs. Besides, even if they did make new cards, people would still just abuse the old ones. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Lord of the Bling]

Trying to envision a deck where I wouldn't use Mirror Force.

Nope, not happening.

Still a horrible banlist. Still a horrible idea. Mindless beatdown with absolutely no thinking or strategy required is not fun.

[L2theZ]

My previous question still hasn't been answered.

[Pemolis]

Wow I was ignored

You still are. Make your own thread and post your opinions there. I'm done arguing with you.


Trying to envision a deck where I wouldn't use Mirror Force.

Nope, not happening.

Apply that to the majority of the cards played in the game, as well as the cards on the banlist. Same concept that was applied here.

[evil_mastermind]

the royal decree has it down falls
Tsukuyomi she is awesoem if they ban her i will cus out the ceator of the ban list
half of the things on here does not need it

[Lord of the Bling]

Apply that to the majority of the cards played in the game, as well as the cards on the banlist. Same concept that was applied here.

That's a problem with the game itself, not the banlist. **** like this kills the fun of duels.

[L2theZ]

You still are. Make your own thread and post your opinions there. I'm done arguing with you.

I would but I have a point that relates to YOUR thread, that being how are good players suppost to gain advantage with that list.

[Pemolis]

I would but I have a point that relates to YOUR thread, that being how are good players suppost to gain advantage with that list.

That I can answer.

If you are a good player, should it matter what the list is? If you are a good player, you should already have the advantage because you ARE a good player. Too many people are relying on cards to gain advantage, well this this removes a good portion of that reliablility and switches it over to the potential and intelligence of the actual player. Advantage aside, your skill should be based on your skill, period. If your skills rely on the cards I put on that banlist....

Well thats my point. You need the cards on this banlist to be a good player?


That's a problem with the game itself, not the banlist. **** like this kills the fun of duels.

I know its a fundamental flaw with the game, it still has to be addressed.

[lucamon]

I love the idea.

Good job. ;x

[Kensh0rz]

That I can answer.

If you are a good player, should it matter what the list is? If you are a good player, you should already have the advantage because you ARE a good player. Too many people are relying on cards to gain advantage, well this this removes a good portion of that reliablility and switches it over to the potential and intelligence of the actual player. Advantage aside, your skill should be based on your skill, period. If your skills rely on the cards I put on that banlist....

Well thats my point. You need the cards on this banlist to be a good player?

A trashy format is a trashy format regardless of the skill of the players involved in it. If you remove all the stuff you want to, you will create a luck dependant format where skill doesn't matter - even if you don't seem to think you will, that's what's going to happen.

I should point out you haven't actually addressed the question here. He wanted to know how advantage is meant to be gained in the format you want, and expected a clear answer in terms of the game mechanics themselves - not "Well, if you're skilled, you'll get it".

In fairness, I think there's actually no need to ask. This list will mean there's only one real way of gaining advantage - and that's through battle. And I don't think I need to explain how that will shape the new CC. That much should be obvious.

With this list, almost all forms of Control will basically die, since it gains advantage through effective use of card effects to gain advantage, rather than battle. Soul Control lives, sure. A shadow of its former self, but unstoppable once it gets out a Monarch - after all, there's nothing remotely playable left capable of killing it off. So that means that to compete with one you would need to run Soul Control yourself in order to kill off the other guy's Monarchs.

With this list, diversity and creativity would die once and for all. But hey, that's what your list was shooting for, right?

[Pemolis]

A trashy format is a trashy format regardless of the skill of the players involved in it. If you remove all the stuff you want to, you will create a luck dependant format where skill doesn't matter - even if you don't seem to think you will, that's what's going to happen.

I should point out you haven't actually addressed the question here. He wanted to know how advantage is meant to be gained in the format you want, and expected a clear answer in terms of the game mechanics themselves - not "Well, if you're skilled, you'll get it".

In fairness, I think there's actually no need to ask. This list will mean there's only one real way of gaining advantage - and that's through battle. And I don't think I need to explain how that will shape the new CC. That much should be obvious.

With this list, almost all forms of Control will basically die, since it gains advantage through effective use of card effects to gain advantage, rather than battle. Soul Control lives, sure. A shadow of its former self, but unstoppable once it gets out a Monarch - after all, there's nothing remotely playable left capable of killing it off. So that means that to compete with one you would need to run Soul Control yourself in order to kill off the other guy's Monarchs.

With this list, diversity and creativity would die once and for all. But hey, that's what your list was shooting for, right?


ok so the basic question is... if my opponent summons a 2400 monster, what can I do?

There are about 100 some odd monsters that can deal with that, 100 some odd traps, and maybe 200 some odd magic cards. If your sole reason for this post is to say, I can't deal with a 2400 monster.. I suggest you take a look at the other 1500-2000 cards in the game and see what you can come up with.

"This list will mean there's only one real way of gaining advantage - and that's through battle."

I want to address this, cause it does interest me and also influenced why I decided to come up with this list.

Presently, battle means very little. Big monsters mean very little. Infact it is better to have cards in your hand than cards on the field. Now I understand the meaning of advantage and why its necessary to have it, but the present game needs to shift away from the present forms and adjust towards a different mentality on how advantage, battles, and the general flow of gameplay in this game works.

In other words, monster battles should mean more than what it does at this time.

On the 2400 attack monster thing though, there are a TON of cards that focus on influencing monsters attack and defense values, as well as how they function in battle. Just because you can't Smashing Ground/Sakuesku the card, doesn't mean you can't beat the card. But do I believe that monster battles should mean more than they do presently? Then yes I do.



"I should point out you haven't actually addressed the question here. He wanted to know how advantage is meant to be gained in the format you want, and expected a clear answer in terms of the game mechanics themselves - not "Well, if you're skilled, you'll get it"."

I could ramble on for about 5 pages on the concepts of advantage, their different goals and idea's, and how they would be influenced in a list like this, but I'd rather not. Suffice to say this:

1) it won't be easy, this format would be suceptable to overextending (just like any other format)

2) A player would have to work harder on card managment (as again, only separates skilled players from your afforment noob players).

3) if you are looking for examples of 1 for 1's, I cannot give it to you. This list attempts to directly impact easy and forseeable abused cards. Are there still 1 for 1 cards that exist outside this list. Yes. Are there still 2+ for 1 cards that also exist out of this list.. again there are. Those are the cards that people do not want to use because: A) They aren't easy. B) Have requirements to them.

Can I tell you HOW to gain advantage? No. Advantage comes by the skill of the player (which was stated repeatedly in other posts in this thread). I cannot just GIVE you cards that give advantage because they don't rely on the skill of the player, just the effectivness of the card. Sure you can make a Dumb play with it, but any player with even a remote amount of "skill" can use them.

Is there a concrete, hold up in supreme court ruling on this. If there is, I cannot give it to you at this time, but what I stated above should suffice in answering that question.

Yes Skill Is Reliant on the Player, and not the Card. Can a player still be a Skilled Player without the cards? If they Are actually a Skilled Player, then Yes they can, as long as the playing field is even.

[TheMysticOne-LV4]

currently, this list would nueter the game and almost everyone would quit because the game would revert to LOB days with newer cards.

this list may not be impossible to see in the future when (as stated before) themed cards are realeased. a raigeki for sea serpants, a duster for reptiles, etc. with a cost and decent monsters the COULD become playable *looks at sea serpents, fish, thunder, dinosaur, etc.

If this list were to occur right now, the game would suck. End. Of. Story.
For right now, live with what we have, there will always be room for improvment.

[topspin1617]

I want more decks to be competitive.

But I want that to happen because they are all Tier 1, not all Tier 3.

They should all be good, not suck equally. That is no fun.

[Pemolis]

I want more decks to be competitive.

But I want that to happen because they are all Tier 1, not all Tier 3.

They should all be good, not suck equally. That is no fun.

This was explained on page 4 of this thread (http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?p=3069851&highlight=burger#post3069851)

[StarScream]

HolyDraconus- It would actually be more profitable for them to make us buy the new packs. Besides, even if they did make new cards, people would still just abuse the old ones. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
That's why i totally agree that with whoever said that theme cards have to been borderline broken. HFD is a great card, but if there was a card that allows you to do the same thing AND off two monsters(optional.... to really make it shine), but had the drawback of being a theme and unusable in the same deck as HFD, would anyone use it? We need more cards so the banlist can die.... Period... End of story.

[topspin1617]

This was explained on page 4 of this thread (http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?p=3069851&highlight=burger#post3069851)

I don't see an effective explanation.

[L2theZ]

ok so the basic question is... if my opponent summons a 2400 monster, what can I do?

There are about 100 some odd monsters that can deal with that, 100 some odd traps, and maybe 200 some odd magic cards. If your sole reason for this post is to say, I can't deal with a 2400 monster.. I suggest you take a look at the other 1500-2000 cards in the game and see what you can come up with.

Too bad you're gottenr id of most of the cards out there to deal with them.

If a format is decided based on who has the bigger monster it's become nothing but a big luck race. But hey more power ot you since I'm sure you'd get lots of backing from bad players

[Pemolis]

But I want that to happen because they are all Tier 1, not all Tier 3.


Again this was explained on page 4 of this thread (http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?p=3069851&highlight=burger#post3069851)

How about giving me the answer you want to hear.

Too bad you're gottenr id of most of the cards out there to deal with them.

If a format is decided based on who has the bigger monster it's become nothing but a big luck race. But hey more power ot you since I'm sure you'd get lots of backing from bad players

I'd actually relook at the cards available in the game before you say this.

On an offside, Mirror wall, Bark of the dark ruler, Curse of Aging, dark jeroid, slate warrior, Legendary Jujitsu Master, Blowback dragon, Earthquake, Micro Ray, : Theban Nightmare, Desertapir, Special Hurricane, Buster Rancher, Curse of Anubis, Des Counterblow, Great Maju Garzette, Kaiser Glider, etc etc.

[topspin1617]

Again this was explained on page 4 of this thread (http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?p=3069851&highlight=burger#post3069851)

How about giving me the answer you want to hear.



I'd actually relook at the cards available in the game before you say this.

On an offside, Mirror wall, Bark, Curse of Aging, dark jeroid, slate warrior, Legendary Jujitsu Master, Blowback dragon, Earthquake, Micro Ray, : Theban Nightmare, Desertapir, Special Hurricane, Buster Rancher, Curse of Anubis, Des Counterblow, Great Maju Garzette, Kaiser Glider, etc etc.


Those are all very, very situational.

And Bark? Do you mean Bark of Dark Ruler?

[Pemolis]

Those are all very, very situational.

And Bark? Do you mean Bark of Dark Ruler?

If all you want is Sakuesku Armor, Mirror force and Dark hole, then your point is made.

Merry Christmas.

[topspin1617]

If all you want is Sakuesku Armor, Mirror force and Dark hole, then your point is made.

Merry Christmas.

By the time your opponent gets like BEWD out or something, you won't be able to take advantage of most of those cards.

Dark Jeroid is not going to take dowan a big monster by itself, and neither is Slate Warrior.

Blowback Dragon, Kaiser Glider, and Great Maju Garzette would have no way of getting on the field.

Special Hurricane does no good if it was tribute summoned.

Etc, etc, etc...

The game needs strong cards. There has to be a way to swing the game in your favor. With this list, there are no swing cards. If your opponent starts winning or gets out a big monster, it's GG.

[ZorcTheAncientClown]

By the time your opponent gets like BEWD out or something, you won't be able to take advantage of most of those cards.

Dark Jeroid is not going to take dowan a big monster by itself, and neither is Slate Warrior.

Blowback Dragon, Kaiser Glider, and Great Maju Garzette would have no way of getting on the field.

Special Hurricane does no good if it was tribute summoned.

Etc, etc, etc...

The game needs strong cards. There has to be a way to swing the game in your favor. With this list, there are no swing cards. If your opponent starts winning or gets out a big monster, it's GG.

That's ridiculous. There are many many cards that can destroy monsters. Newdoria, Man Eater Bug, Old Vintictive Magician, combos! (OMG would you ever think it possible?) like Tragedy + Earthquake or something.

At least use something credible for your argument, not BEWD.

[Waboku]

This list is stupid. Are you that desperate to remove Cookie Cutter decks and all removal and leave us with nothing? That is a bad Idea. With that, people will be whining that there is hardly any removal that is fast to the point that you can do something. They'd be whining that they would be losing to GEAF, Orc, Gaf, Etc., and I mean sure we'd make combos like "Windstorm + Earthquake" but rofl they would just beat us down before then since that combo is a 2 turn thing. Please don't try anything like this again.
EDIT: One last thing, Sure there are other options of removal like MEB, OVM, etc., but we would all just run Beatdown and Royal Command/Blade Knight to take care of face downs so people wouold lose fast and alot would complain.

-Waboku.

[ZorcTheAncientClown]

Either way, there are simple counters to everything if you look hard enough.

(Those 2 cards from RDS, one kills all cont. traps, and the other kills all cont. spells. They require discards, but they're more balanced. Also, Raigeki break and Phoenix Wing Wind Blast are extremely potent and versatile.)

[topspin1617]

That's ridiculous. There are many many cards that can destroy monsters. Newdoria, Man Eater Bug, Old Vintictive Magician, combos! (OMG would you ever think it possible?) like Tragedy + Earthquake or something.

At least use something credible for your argument, not BEWD.

People don't like combos, though. Remember Scapegoat + Metamorphosis + Tsukuyomi?

[ZorcTheAncientClown]

People don't like combos, though. Remember Scapegoat + Metamorphosis + Tsukuyomi?

I'm sorry but I don't get what you're implying. Either way,
1. If they choose not to run advantageous combos, it's their own problem.
2. There aren't any overpowered combos like the one you mentioned that should be legal (as in, all the cards run in 3s.)

Either way, people should eventually learn to synergize.

Imagine a deck with 3 Thunder Dragon, 3 Ojamagic, 3 of each Ojama, 3 Magical Hats, 3 Raigeki Breaks, 3 PWWB, and other discard cards. It would work quite effectively, I'd think.

[topspin1617]

I'm sorry but I don't get what you're implying. Either way,
1. If they choose not to run advantageous combos, it's their own problem.
2. There aren't any overpowered combos like the one you mentioned that should be legal (as in, all the cards run in 3s.)

Actually, I ran 2 Goat, 2 Morph, and 1 Tsuku. Not 3 of each. Does that make it OK?

Either way, people should eventually learn to synergize.

Imagine a deck with 3 Thunder Dragon, 3 Ojamagic, 3 of each Ojama, 3 Magical Hats, 3 Raigeki Breaks, 3 PWWB, and other discard cards. It would work quite effectively, I'd think.

No, it wouldn't. How do you win? Once you discard everything to get rod of their cards, you have nothing left.

I know all about synergy and all that stuff. Like running Vampire Orchis + Des Dendle to generate Wicked Plant Tokens which are used to attack along with the effect of Gaia Power, tributed for Spiritual Earth Art-Kurogane, Creature Swapped, Enemy Controllered, Morphed, etc. It's not too hard,

[ZorcTheAncientClown]

Actually, I ran 2 Goat, 2 Morph, and 1 Tsuku. Not 3 of each. Does that make it OK?



No, it wouldn't. How do you win? Once you discard everything to get rod of their cards, you have nothing left.

I know all about synergy and all that stuff. Like running Vampire Orchis + Des Dendle to generate Wicked Plant Tokens which are used to attack along with the effect of Gaia Power, tributed for Spiritual Earth Art-Kurogane, Creature Swapped, Enemy Controllered, Morphed, etc. It's not too hard,

I realize that you're not a n00b. You do not have to prove anything to me.

With that deck, you'd win with beatsticks I guess, or whatever else you feel like running.

About the TER/Tsuku combo, I meant an easily performable, overpowered combo. It should not be permitted. The restriction on each card kills the combo's abuse. Ok?

[topspin1617]

I realize that you're not a n00b. You do not have to prove anything to me.

With that deck, you'd win with beatsticks I guess, or whatever else you feel like running.

About the TER/Tsuku combo, I meant an easily performable, overpowered combo. It should not be permitted. The restriction on each card kills the combo's abuse. Ok?

If the restriction alone kills the combo's abuse, why do we have to ban all the cards along with 50 more that don't deserve it?

If he wants set rotation (which is also bad), he should just say so. He has banned way too many cards, like Tsukuyomi, that don't deserve it at all.

[ZorcTheAncientClown]

If the restriction alone kills the combo's abuse, why do we have to ban all the cards along with 50 more that don't deserve it?

If he wants set rotation (which is also bad), he should just say so. He has banned way too many cards, like Tsukuyomi, that don't deserve it at all.

I would ban Tsukuyomi, not because it's overpowered, but in relation to other cards available to us, it's too splashable and relatively versatile. I am not so sure about Pemolis' reasoning. This would be my reasoning as to everything else he placed on his list.

[topspin1617]

I would ban Tsukuyomi, not because it's overpowered, but in relation to other cards available to us, it's too splashable and relatively versatile. I am not so sure about Pemolis' reasoning. This would be my reasoning as to everything else he placed on his list.

Splashable? EVERY card is splashable. I could splash Arcane Archer of the Forest, Scapegoat, and DNA surgery into every deck. That doesn't make the combo banworthy by any means.

[Pemolis]

Splashable? EVERY card is splashable. I could splash Arcane Archer of the Forest, Scapegoat, and DNA surgery into every deck. That doesn't make the combo banworthy by any means.

Most of the cards on this list are put there to attack the major issues of the game (I've stated them before, I won't now).

There are some cards which are just overly abused and powerful. Book of Moon is one of them, Tsuki is another <Note> Just because it doesn't Kill a card, doesn't mean it is not potent and powerful.

Tsuki is one of those cases. Eventually I do think it may come off this specific banlist I made, but presently I do believe it deserves its place. The reasons (my reasons) are numerous and I don't feel like listing them all (I've written maybe 100 paragraphs of explainations in this entire thread, so if I slow down a bit tonight, forgive me). I'd rather argue about the concept of this list, than a specific card on the list.

I feel I need to clarify this concept of Splashable since its been brought up.

We understand (at least I hope we understand) that the majority of the cards in the game can be played in more than 1 type of deck. The majority of the magic and trap cards have no actual theme to them (meaning they can be played in any deck). I/We agree on that. I explained it best in this post. (http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?p=3120246&highlight=spiritreaper#post3120246) It has more to do with CC and static cards, but the concept can be expressed towards splashable cards (which are basically your cc cards).

Lets move on though and get back to the concepts of this banlist, rather than debate on what splashes what cause that argument can go on for months.

[Lord of the Bling]

I know its a fundamental flaw with the game, it still has to be addressed.

This isn't the way to do it, and my point stands. Better cards are needed, not taking away all the good cards.

[DMOC2826]

I'll quit this game immediately if that ban list ever happened. You banned about 25% of the total cards in the YGO TCG. I don't mean to be rude, but this has to be a joke. :-/

[Pemolis]

This isn't the way to do it, and my point stands. Better cards are needed, not taking away all the good cards.

Yes better/more cards are needed, but these cards will have to be removed eitherway.

It is the Skill of the Player that makes a Player Good, Not The Need For 2 or 3 Specific Cards. (basic theme, if you can't cope, you are probably not a good player). You make your skill, and if you skill relies on those cards...then you probably don't have any (strangely, I doubt any player will argue with that, but I know you will).

I'll quit this game immediately if that ban list ever happened. You banned about 25% of the total cards in the YGO TCG. I don't mean to be rude, but this has to be a joke. :-/

Banned 25% of all the cards? I guess there are only 240 cards in the 1500+ card game.

Either or, doors to your left.

Merry Christmas

[Rudoku]

I'll quit this game immediately if that ban list ever happened. You banned about 25% of the total cards in the YGO TCG. I don't mean to be rude, but this has to be a joke. :-/
Konami isn't that stupid, and we all know that UDE wouldn't do anything like that, since the guys they make money off will do the same, so was this post necessary?

[topspin1617]

Yes better/more cards are needed, but these cards will have to be removed eitherway.

It is the Skill of the Player that makes a Player Good, Not The Need For 2 or 3 Specific Cards. (basic theme, if you can't cope, you are probably not a good player). You make your skill, and if you skill relies on those cards...then you probably don't have any (strangely, I doubt any player will argue with that, but I know you will).

The skill of a player mainly has to do with using their cards effectively to gain an advantage. If there aren't any cards in the game tht allow them to gain an advantage against thsir opponent, then skill doesn't really matter.

[DMOC2826]

^Jeez some of you guys need to lighten up. 1st of all I was being sarcastic, I know Konami and UDE wouldn't do this ban list, hence why I said, I'd quit o_O
And FYI I was being sarcastic about the 25% of the cards in the game being banned. :-/

[Netdecker]

Your list is just going to make people whine even more because people are winning with Beatdown w/ Royal Command/Blade Knight added in (to screw flips you think can be other options for 1:1 removal).

[StarScream]

Here's something that I saw that I may be a bit late on but.... with this list, Skill Drain may see a lot more play. Flips and most monster effects are gone right there, so it would be alot easier to run it and some beatdown monster than just RC/Blade Knight. Also, why Shrink? It's just like Ryuoki ( I know I spelled it wrong... sue me), but its a quickplay. Any reasoning on that? And Summon Priests hasn't even seen the light of day here and already banning it?! I would understand if its as bad as something as Sixth Sense, but its not. A little insight on this please???
I'll admit, the thing is pretty powerful, but you're offing a spell, which is hard to replace, even if you use that Crane combo with it. And for all we know, it may be errata over here so it works only with spellcasters. No need to ban it before its out right? That's like banning the frog with ties to Sinister Serpent. It helps tributes and has no reason for being banned before its out anyway.

[no names left]

The next CC will most likely Apprentice Magician control. (No noc or any monsters that destroy without damage calculation.) you know, hit app magician get out vindictive for a 0 for 1. Pheonix would reign supreme. And with stupidly pricey removal we can expect most people to main deck 3 michizure. Either that or Zombie.

[Pemolis]

I just wanted to say.. I loved my list. It was awesome. It brought about creativity...

why... konami.... why........

[LynxFF7]

The actual game is SCREWED and FLAWED as hell. No list can actually harm it. Go go and ban everything. Well - you were a little extreme, but nonetheless a decent try.

[Airknight]

i may as well just quit the game then~ this list ban my whole binder!

[familyguy1491]

I guess you like having 50% of your deck SET IN STONE before you ever start to build it.

I guess you like to see the exact same cards played over and over and over and over and OVER AND OVER AND OVER again.

All I did was move the cards that every deck plays... no matter what the deck, over to the banlist. Then I moved the immediate substitutes over so decks do not merely shift down a card. Then I removed the possible overly abusable cards due to their removal.

Thats all.
i personally do. no what ur opponent has so u can counter it.

[Pemolis]

The actual game is SCREWED and FLAWED as hell. No list can actually harm it. Go go and ban everything. Well - you were a little extreme, but nonetheless a decent try.

Extreme? Yes, but we have to find the limit of what is done (What we are comfortable with), and then go past it (to get out of our comfort zone). Thats how we grow, and thats how the game will grow.

[ygofan]

This will never happen but it would be neat to try and build a competitive deck with this list.

[Paladinseer007]

It'll never happen. The mere concept of this ban list is flawed.

That's a very good thing that it wont happen.:D

[AmebaFTW]

Even with all these cards gone, people would just make CC beatdown control decks and win tournements anyways. There will always be a CC deck, even with that stupid list. You'd ban cyber jar, but not ban morphing jar????

Stop with the ignorance please. Stop saying "No matter what you do there will always be a CC", because that's not true.

This list is terribly restrictive and would likely kill the game before helping it, but that's not the point I'm driving now.

The point is......changes CAN be made to balance the game out and leave some uniqueness floating about, just because Konami isn't smart enough to make those changes doesn't mean it's impossible, duh?

[DanTheTimid]

Stop with the ignorance please. Stop saying "No matter what you do there will always be a CC", because that's not true.

This list is terribly restrictive and would likely kill the game before helping it, but that's not the point I'm driving now.

The point is......changes CAN be made to balance the game out and leave some uniqueness floating about, just because Konami isn't smart enough to make those changes doesn't mean it's impossible, duh?

Ameba's comments truly are for the win on this one. Although I'd like a list like this personally, even if new CCs did show up it would atleast initially really shake up the game and it would be a fun ride determing the new top cards/deck types, odds are it would do more harm to the overal game since many people would be very unhappy with it and quit with out giving it a chance. But that is no reason to not try to make changes, I too am sick of people whose explanation to shoot down every ban list is that there will always be CC. By that logic we should all play traditional, whats the point of having an advanced format at all, theres always going to be a CC right? If the game is really as bad as so many people claim it is I just don't see why they're so afraid of changing things, it can't make things any worse can it?

[Paladinseer007]

i may as well just quit the game then~ this list ban my whole binder!

I think with the new list that we have would make a good portion of people quit this game.:D

[smallYGOpro]

I think with the new list that we have would make a good portion of people quit this game.:D
yeah. some people are quitting now...............imagine how many would when this banlist is in place.

although, nice typing Pemolis :D

[Aarikku]

How the heck did you make this list?

Metagame.com... find some Warrior Toolbox... Control+C... go to Pojo, Control+V...

Seriously. It looks like you banned every competitive card in the game. Try again.

[Pemolis]

How the heck did you make this list?

Metagame.com... find some Warrior Toolbox... Control+C... go to Pojo, Control+V...

Seriously. It looks like you banned every competitive card in the game. Try again.

I explained it somewhere earlier in this thread.

What I did was take all the Basic Cards All decks use, then took their immediate substitutes, then tweaked the cards that would become overly powerful with the other cards removed.

Never went to metagame or any tourney site to do this. Just common sense picked those cards.

[topspin1617]

I explained it somewhere earlier in this thread.

What I did was take all the Basic Cards All decks use, then took their immediate substitutes, then tweaked the cards that would become overly powerful with the other cards removed.

Never went to metagame or any tourney site to do this. Just common sense picked those cards.

We may see new decks with this list, but that doesn't mean they won't all still be about the same like they are now.

[Necrofear40]

this thread shows me just one thing.....you can't create a ban list that a majority of people will agree too.....because people think differently....


-I still have one more move.

[Anonymous Toothbrush]

the list is more than just MJar.

Yes, it doubles as fertilizer.

[ROCKYIII]

I think this list would suck if it was made right now truthfully. However, if we ever get cards that are "Broken" for each THEME, then this list would probably be really good. For example, A card that plays to themes strengths such as this-- Gurutta Growl (Continuous) As long as this card is on the field, when a beast type monster inflicts damage to your opponents lifespoints, draw 2 cards and discard 1 from your hand. OR-- Revenge from the underworld (equip) This card can only be equipped to a spellcaster type monster. It increases its attack points by 300. In addition, each time this monster attacks you can special summon 1 spellcaster from your graveyard.

[Death_Blade]

I see that list being made in at least 2 years in my opinion

[Shadow of Death]

I guess you like having 50% of your deck SET IN STONE before you ever start to build it.

I guess you like to see the exact same cards played over and over and over and over and OVER AND OVER AND OVER again.

All I did was move the cards that every deck plays... no matter what the deck, over to the banlist. Then I moved the immediate substitutes over so decks do not merely shift down a card. Then I removed the possible overly abusable cards due to their removal.

Thats all.

Actually I do.

You obviously don't play card games or you'd know all of this one for one trade off card advantage control element meta / anti-meta junk is what makes a card game a card game. With your list you just make mindless uninteresting beatdown the only thing worth playing. This list automatically fails on so many levels. You may care for originality, but this deck would kill the game.

[maoKaiba_Sarah]

Somehow I doubt the thread starter has any ability nor understanding in the least to predict the future or solutions to the problems in Yu-gi-oh. How in goodness will Konami/UDE promote cards in tournaments when they are utter garbage. Not only do I believe common is lacking in this list but the knowledge of the game itself.

My eyes hurt and my IQ has dropped from looking at it. The sad part is underplayed decks would still be terrible with the lack of good cards for all decks. Of course that's just my opinion but a banlist like this would only be a sign of ignorance :p.

[Pemolis]

Somehow I doubt the thread starter has any ability nor understanding in the least to predict the future or solutions to the problems in Yu-gi-oh. How in goodness will Konami/UDE promote cards in tournaments when they are utter garbage. Not only do I believe common is lacking in this list but the knowledge of the game itself.

My eyes hurt and my IQ has dropped from looking at it. The sad part is underplayed decks would still be terrible with the lack of good cards for all decks. Of course that's just my opinion but a banlist like this would only be a sign of ignorance :p.

:ignorance opens the door for you.

Exits to your left :D

[Death_Blade]

Somehow I doubt the thread starter has any ability nor understanding in the least to predict the future or solutions to the problems in Yu-gi-oh. How in goodness will Konami/UDE promote cards in tournaments when they are utter garbage. Not only do I believe common is lacking in this list but the knowledge of the game itself.

My eyes hurt and my IQ has dropped from looking at it. The sad part is underplayed decks would still be terrible with the lack of good cards for all decks. Of course that's just my opinion but a banlist like this would only be a sign of ignorance :p.

I have to agree with you there, if Konami/UDE ban all the staples in the game then the game will be difficult to promote, like you said. As more and more deck building cards get banned so will the popularity of the game in general so they need to only ban the cost free cards such as Pot of Greed, Raigeki, and Harpies's Feather Duster.

[Pemolis]

I have to agree with you there, if Konami/UDE ban all the staples in the game then the game will be difficult to promote, like you said. As more and more deck building cards get banned so will the popularity of the game in general so they need to only ban the cost free cards such as Pot of Greed, Raigeki, and Harpies's Feather Duster.

.. They have done that already.

And this is the state the game is in now. I won't speak for everybody, but I personally hate this format and the previous. Fear of breaking away from stapelish cards is what is ruining deck building. Now we can say that "Its the peoples fault, not Konami/Upperdeck. K/U aren't forcing you to play those cards", but without those cards, you have a near 0 chance of being even remotely competative in any type of enviorment. If you apply the whole "It ain't K/U's fault, then why bring the banlist out in the first place?!?

Overly broken, overly used, overly abusive cards.

There needs to be more change.

[Chuck Norris]

You dare to speak this trash in the presence of Chuck Norris?

The game as it stands is luckbased, with a dash of skill.

The format you proposed eliminated all traces of said skill.

UNTIL the introduction of theme-stamped power cards, we need the current card pool to be enlarged by about... 10-15 cards.

[Pemolis]

You dare to speak this trash in the presence of Chuck Norris?

The game as it stands is luckbased, with a dash of skill.

The format you proposed eliminated all traces of said skill.

UNTIL the introduction of theme-stamped power cards, we need the current card pool to be enlarged by about... 10-15 cards.

Luck VS Skill. Anybody can get lucky. A person has no control over that element of the game. Cards in this game does not contribute to the "luck" factor because luck is what it is, Luck.

Luck
1. The chance happening of fortunate or adverse events; fortune: They met one day out of pure luck.
2. Good fortune or prosperity; success: We wish you luck.
3. One's personal fate or lot: It was just my luck to win a trip I couldn't take.

To gain success or something desirable by chance. The cards you put in your deck are not "By Chance". The cards your opponents put in their deck is not "By Chance". The chance element goes towards Actually PLAYING The game. This is a discussion about Decks, the Cards used, and the future of the game. Whatever the format is, there will always be a degree of "LUCK". This cannot be controlled.

Skill though, that is inate within a person. Skill: A development of talent or ability.

We say "That person has skill. That person knows how to play".

We Do Not Say "Those cards have skill, those cards know how to play".

Physical Cards do not dictate skill unless those said cards are unbalancing and/or undermining to the purpose of the game (at that point, the game becomes lopsided and distorted).

This list brings the idea of actual thought, creativity, and reliability upon ones own Skill and Not on ones Staple Cards.

[Magical_Merchant]

so its basicly gonna be like when the game first came out? Summon a big monster and equipt. oh cant stop it? good game!

[Pemolis]

Or we could just Summon monster and watch it die every turn to

Mirror Force
Sakuesku Armor
Smashing Ground
Nobleman of Crossout
Bottomless Trap Hole
Trap Hole
D.D. Warrior Lady
D.D. Assailant
Solemn Judgement

etc etc etc.

[ZorcTheAncientClown]

so its basicly gonna be like when the game first came out? Summon a big monster and equipt. oh cant stop it? good game!

Tribute to the Doomed, Raigeki Break, Dark Core, etc. Especially Phoenix Wing Wind Blast. Still so many cards to punish overextension.

I thought, I THOUGHT I could enjoy the new format. But no. The overabundance of similarity in decks and still extremely lucky topdecks is ridiculous. You cannot bring skill into this game by unbanning Raigeki etc. for the mere fact that there is SO MUCH LUCK involved in drawing the card. Graceful Charity right now is ridiculous to draw. Just as a card could turn over the game for a near-death player, the same card could push a losing player even further into an unescapable (? dunno if that's a word) hole.

This list would just be awesome. My opinion. I'm insane. Pfff.

[Crolum Shadow Master]

Enemy Controller
Scapegoat
Mobuis the Frost Monarch
Waboku
Threatening Roar
Bottomless Trap Hole
Trap Hole
Lightning Vortex
Yomi Frog
Solemn Judgement
Cyber Jar
Royal Decree
Jinzo
Brain Control
Airknight
Mystic Swordsman LV2
Drilloid
Ninja Sasuke
Widespread Ruin
Giant Trunade
Spirit Reaper
Spiritualism

these will not be banned