Monarchs/bottomless trap hole newbie question

[ericeyre]

Sorry about the newbie question: But trying to know for sure what happens when Thestalos, Mobius or Zaborg are tribute summoned and your opponent flips bottomless trap hole or torrential tribute, do you still get your monarch's effect?

[Deck-Out]

it says if this card is successfully summoned... and bottomless makes it un-successful so... nope. Neither does torrential

[kEviN21]

I dont get what deckout jus said lol....basically yes, they do get their effects when bottomlessed or torrentialed......

[Deck-Out]

i hate to argue. All monarch's state "When this card is Tribute Summoned successfully" if u activate bottomless or torrential to there summoning, they are not seccessfully tribute summoned. so they do not get there effect.

[ericeyre]

Seems as if there's a disagreement. Can someone settle the issue? Thanks

[Old Bob]

Bottomless does not negate the summons, only Horn of Heaven and Solemn Judgement do that. If fact, bottomless cannot even be activated ecept in response to a successful summons, at which point it will remove the Monarch from play and then the monarch's effect which went first in the chain resolves

Old Bob

[meridus]

Bottomless does not negate the summons, only Horn of Heaven and Solemn Judgement do that. If fact, bottomless cannot even be activated ecept in response to a successful summons, at which point it will remove the Monarch from play and then the monarch's effect which went first in the chain resolves

Old Bob

I run a monarch deck and Old Bob is correct. You cannot activate Trap hole/B. Trap hole unless the monster has been successfully summoned. The Monarches will get there effects to go off.

[ericeyre]

Question for Old Bob: So if your opponent had three face-down magic and/or traps (and one was btraphole), you could destroy the two additional magic/traps, then mobius gets removed from play?

[Deck-Out]

ok ok i'm wrong ^_^ i guess but thats how i use to play it...

[Old Bob]

This is due to you cannot chain to a summons. You respond to a summons. If you respond with HOH or Solemn, then the summons is negated and the monster destroyed and no effects take place. If the monster summoned has a mandatory effect like Mobius or breaker receiving his token, that becomes step one in the chain which you can then chain to. If it is a non-mandatory effect like exiled force, the turn player has proirity to activate an effect prior to the opponent's response.

Old bob

Edit,

if the opponent has three face down spell or traps and you summon mobius, you select 2 of the three and then your opponent may chain to the effect of mobius with any or all of the 3 cards provided the timing for that card is correct.

Say the 3 cards are scapegoat, ceasefire and BTH. You summom mobius and target BTH and ceasefire. Your opponent may chain BTH and then Chain Ceasefire to Mobius' effect. Chain resolves backwards with Ceasefire doing 500 for each effect monster and the BHT removes mobius from play.

Old Bob

[Deck-Out]

so i guess when your opponent chains BTH mobius can destroy the other 2 cards.

[Old Bob]

you select the cards at the activation of mobius' effect and your opponent can then chain those selected cards to the effect if the timing is correct. BHT, scapegoat, TT would be examples of correct timing. Sak armor, Widespread, Cylinder would be examples of cards that could not be chained as the timing is incorrect.

Old Bob

[melink14]

OK I don't think this has been clarified enough. When Mobius is summoned ask the player whether or not they are going to use the effect. If they do, then they pick 2 m/t cards. Then everything else happens.

The key thing to remember that mobius' effect happens before anything else happens. So, if you pick a face down BTH and he chains with it, you can't pick another card. Because you already picked it.

[stunstrike]

If the summon wasn't "successful", then you couldn't have activate BTH now would you?

[gateguardian44]

OK I don't think this has been clarified enough. When Mobius is summoned ask the player whether or not they are going to use the effect. If they do, then they pick 2 m/t cards. Then everything else happens.

The key thing to remember that mobius' effect happens before anything else happens. So, if you pick a face down BTH and he chains with it, you can't pick another card. Because you already picked it.

That's basically how it goes UNLESS the summoning has been negated and Mobius would not get the chance to negate the effect...

Once Mobius has selected the 2 m/t cards to be destroyed, they can no longed be changed regardless if the chain the cards that are being targetted or not...

I seriously don't understand how people cannot understand this concept...

[killerboi3]

What i really dont get is how people try to tell other people the answer when they are wrong them self, and its a simply question.....
well as some people has said be4, i am just gonna give you the whole reason why just because i am bored :)

When you trubite summon for a monarch, you can only play bottomless when the monster has been sucessfully summon, so when the monarch comes into play, and you bottomless you will get effect. The only way that you can stop the effect of stuff like monarch is with cards that negates the summon itself, like Horn of heaven!!

[Rakath]

Order of cards:

1. Player A Summons Mobius (Or Zaborg, or Jinzo, whatever)
2. Player B May now activate Horn of Heaven or Solemn Judgement to negate this summon right here and now, if this happens then skip down to 5 (keeping in mind in this case it is just Counter Traps now).
3. Player A decides targets for Mobius (or Zaborg)
4. Player B may chain a trap or quickplay magic here, or choose to wave that right.
5. Player A now may chain a trap or quickplay magic here, or choose to wave that right, continue as needed with 4 and 5.

Resolve in reverse.

[Chronos]

Its simple enough, if you trib for mobius and bring him out, your opponent can bth him, if you want to use his effect then say 'priority' (mobius's effect is optional) at which point you can blow up any two spells or traps on the field, including your own, once this happens mobius sees another dimension because of bth. Now, in the instance of thestalos, zaborg and granmargh, once they are brought out their effects have to go off, they are mandatory, so if your opponent trys to bth the monarch, you use the effect of the monarch then it sees another dimension.

Basically, use their effects and then they die and always remember the magic word, PRIORITY!

A reply to Old bob, breakers effect is not mandatory, if he gets killed by TH or BTH then he doesnt get the counter.

[Rakath]

Mobius isn't a case of Priority, Mobius's effect is triggered right after his summon, it is not like Exiled Force which may be activated at any time on the field.

Breaker's effect of gaining a counter IS mandatory, and is step one in all chains after his summon.

[NephthysPhoenix]

Its simple enough, if you trib for mobius and bring him out, your opponent can bth him, if you want to use his effect then say 'priority' (mobius's effect is optional) at which point you can blow up any two spells or traps on the field, including your own, once this happens mobius sees another dimension because of bth. Now, in the instance of thestalos, zaborg and granmargh, once they are brought out their effects have to go off, they are mandatory, so if your opponent trys to bth the monarch, you use the effect of the monarch then it sees another dimension.

Basically, use their effects and then they die and always remember the magic word, PRIORITY!

A reply to Old bob, breakers effect is not mandatory, if he gets killed by TH or BTH then he doesnt get the counter.

Mobius is a Trigger effect and automatically gets the effect when tributed summoned Sucessfuly, but you don't have to use his effect if you don't want too.

Trigger effects dont get prirotiy they automatically get it.

Placing a Spell Counter on "Breaker, the Magical Warrior" is a chain that begins after it is Summoned. If your opponent chains "Trap Hole" or "Ring of Destruction" to the placement of a Spell Counter on "Breaker, the Magical Warrior", "Trap Hole" / "Ring of Destruction" resolves before the Spell Counter is placed on "Breaker, the Magical Warrior", so you cannot chain "Breaker, the Magical Warrior"'s effect.

Breaker IS a trigger effect so he gets his counter when he is summoned, BUT it forms a chain.

[Chronos]

I see where I was wrong with the breaker and monarch thing, I worded things a bit differently to what was goin on in my mind, sorry bout that :)