Is Anyone Else upset with the new emphasis on Artifacts? [Archive]

spartan4life

04-08-2004, 09:23 AM

Yeah. They really took it too far. Artifacts are getting old fast. When they first came out it was really cool. Now they are redicualsly strong and almost every deck has them.

They really have to get back to the Color theme. That was the main reason I played Magic. Having each one have their own things and stuff. I hope Fifth Dawn is more of an Anti-Artifact set. If it is, say good-bye to the Ravager. :D

Sir_Unforgiven

04-08-2004, 02:17 PM

i used to think to myself having an artifact deck would be really cool, but then mirrodin came out and that image was quickly gone i hate artifacts now ALOT!

gumshoes

04-08-2004, 03:13 PM

well, one good thing comes from it.... The anticipation for color.... I do like artifacts a lot, but right now, its gotta be casual magic because the tournament scene is littered with ravagers...

spartan4life

04-08-2004, 05:12 PM

gumshoes...you have never spoken better words...

It's the truth. The really only deck with no artifacts that is good is Goblins and their no fun. Why can't people use different decks...

AKA:Battousai

04-08-2004, 07:08 PM

are you kidding me...

R/G LD is going to dominate ravager's metagame

it's got no artifacts of it's own to add to the pain, it'll burn the crap outta any piddly disciple laid out there, one oxidize on the first turn ruins raffinity's next 2 turns, by then the baloths and pulse give you so much life, raffinity is almost useless when you even think of what kinda cards R/G'll sideboard against it the next game...

a second turn naturalize/oxidize and/or oxidize again and the damage has already been done, 3rd. stone rain or ravenous baloth, 4th turn molder slug...
Raffinity is already a luck based deck figure in how much hate every deck'll have against it I can bet the raffinity will not even be in the top 8 of my regionals

even raffinity decks are using oxidize and naturalize against each other, and astral slide...

Goblin decks do use artifacts...

I really hope everyone does use ravagers it just makes it an easier game to win...

all this I saw first hand watching a practice Type II tourny last friday before we started drafting...

Cabalwannabe

04-08-2004, 11:42 PM

I dont understand why everyone is gripeing abought Ravager.
Plenty can beat Ravager.
The real question is: Why does nobody main deck all artifact hate?
Oh yeah, they'll win somehow. They always do. No.
Im sure that you'll be squished by the goblins, and burned by the rift, but the Ravager will be gone.

The other thing I don't understand is why everyone is complaining about artifacts. All anyone really wanted out of the new set was a artifact theme, and now that its proved just what it can do, no ones happy.
I got news for you: Artifacts are powerfull, no matter what set, Mirrodin just so happend to be the artifact block.
If we didn't have this block, we'd still be after it.

Im not sick of artifacts.
Hopefully FithDawn will have some all-powerfull gold cards that show that color overcomes no-color.

-Dustin

AKA:Battousai

04-09-2004, 02:56 AM

yeah I'd like to know that too...

I remember always wanting more artifacts I'd be organizing cards and I'd have a puny stack of like 100 artifacts and then like colored stacks in the thousands

I love the mirrodin block I don't think I have drafted so much with anything else, maybe onslaught

they already had their "gold" moment it was invasion block, before that everyone played mono colorded theme decks besides slivers and combo deck everything else was kinda stuck at mono colored creature theme decks...

Invasion block stirred up the mana pool and we are still feeling the affects of it now all of a sudden we have R/G decks coming together to beatdown on players or control the game. B/U in megrim decks when a discard deck used to be strictly mono Black, R/B removal decks, black in a goblin deck, blue in a green deck, 3 color theme decks, etc...

spartan4life

04-09-2004, 06:18 AM

What I meant by the only deck that doesn't have artifacts I meant in the regionals and the like....but you are right about Goblins having artifacts. My bad.

Now, if we went T1 or Casual, theres loads of decks that could blow Raffinity up, for sure. That I can't argue with. But, in the Regionals mostly every deck is circled around or has artifacts. It's just annoying.

Broodstar

04-09-2004, 06:34 AM

I remember that when Darksteel was released, all of its content looked as fresh and exciting to me as Mirrodin's. However, something seems to have changed. Very few of the cards in Mirrodin and Darksteel seem to be used, and those cards are overused. For example, Frogmite and Myr Enforcer. Arcbound Ravager, Arcbound Worker, and Skullclamp.

There are really a lot of other cool cards in both sets, but they see little to zero play.

What I'm tired of is seeing the SAME artifacts over and over. I'd like to see more Lightning Coils, more Surestrike Tridents, more Spawning Pits and Extraplanar Lenses actually being played outside of Drafts.

I am also tired of Artifacts' takeover as the new beatdown. I'm sorry, but didn't that role belong to green? Now Green is only played in decks like R/G LD, B/G Cemetery, and 12-Post which have nothing to do with those good ol' beats.

Probably this is because Affinity has turned the format too fast for any aggro deck other than Gobbos. Madness was a little... insane (pardon the pun), Affinity for artifacts was a mistake! If any deck was entitled to getting turn 3 4/4s, that deck should be a GREEN deck! And then it shouldn't be able to drop and clamp a myriad of other free artifacts. Block mechanics have dominated Type II for too long now (Madness from Odyssey, Tribal synergy from Onslaught, and Affinity from Mirrodin).

With the format being so fast, most of the non-beating artifacts have become unplayable (except for the most powerful like Oblivion Stone, which isn't meant to stay on the field anyway so it's safe from Shatters), and any deck that wants to run a few artifacts to complement itself is ruined because so many people are maindecking artifact kill just to rip Affinity a new hole, which kind of blows away the Block's supposed theme.

zhouman003

04-15-2004, 02:44 PM

Broodstar

04-15-2004, 07:02 PM

Drafting with too many artifacts pisses me off! Although i do like the mirrodin block, drafting is rediculous. I'm too used to looking for my correct colors in packs. and then theres a pack with no colors in it? and then white looks like its an artifact too (can't wait for new card frame in Fifth Dawn)

oy vey... But Mirrodin draft is actually quite balanced compared to other sets. There are less bombs, and it's actually possible for a deck to be evaluated on its overall power instead of how many sick cards it has got. For instance, ALL artifact bombs, like Memnarch, are easier to handle because, well, you have to have artifact hate in Mirrodin Draft. Doesn't that make you happy?

add4me

04-16-2004, 12:56 PM

I have to agree with Broodstar, I played green beats all the time but Mirrodin Block is doing too much to blur the line that used to divide the colors. Green had beats, black had creature kill, blue had counter & card drawing, red had burn, white had its weenies and life gain.

And I'd also like to see decks that can beat ravager with out artifact hate. Rather they could use Modular Hate i.e. Aether Snap, purge, etc.
And why not do something Rouge. In my area Goblins and Affinity rule the casual metagame. And thats why I am building a deck thats based around Chimney Imp. Yes chimney imp. And if the combo goes off right I allways win. Complete Lockdown.

So basically what I am trying to say is that if you want to see more rouge decks build and play one. And down with artifact hate and forward with Modular hate. If you build a deck that can beat ravager and stand a chance against other decks why not build it. 4 Aether Snap and maybe purge its competitive and literally destroys ravager decks.

VolCanon

04-16-2004, 09:25 PM

I disagree. There's still a lot of bombs in Mirrodin. However, only about HALF of the drafters will get it.
Spikeshot is worthless in constructed but broken in draft.
Grab the reins
Matrix
etc.

Mirrodin drafting is really boring compared to other sets. Except for about 10 color cards, everybody's deck looks the same. It's harder to draft good stuff because its not just your color that's going for them but EVERYBODY.
If you cant get any good equips, you lose: creatures in mirrodin suck.

ArcanisTheOmnipotent

04-18-2004, 01:41 PM

more artifacts is one thing, they can put that little part of ur deck u want, but now it is like yu-gi-oh in that everyone has these specific artifacts guaranteed in their deck taking away slots in ur deck to counter those guaranteed cards. it also gets away the color wheel, which i love. that may just be like it is where i'm from though

AKA:Battousai

04-18-2004, 10:50 PM

do you know how weird it's going to be when we open our tounament packs at the prerelease of the next block and all the colors are just going to hit you with this big woaw... and everyones going to take forever making the sealed decks because we are not used to seeing all the different colors as much...

if you do rochester draft right now it just looks wierd cause you can't depend on people taking their colors they will hate draft more than ever to stop you from getting multiples or they will switch to your color because they're all look he won the last 2 drafts and now he's playing red so it must be good... stuff like that

I have nothing against artifacts... it's just we are still so used to the tribal theme of onslaught with all the definite color based decks and then throwing mirrodin block along side it... I just think we were not ready for mirrodin at that time... notice it all seemed like a neat idea but then we all realized that it kinda messed up a few things...

I will miss mirrodin though when it goes away... whether or not you want to admit it, stirring up the mana pool is always a good thing... if you remember mirage, and invasion... then you'll know what I'm talking about, different is almost always better than being redundant...

843_is_dead

04-20-2004, 12:38 AM

With the right deck, you can easily beat your opponent's artifacts down so easily that you love to fight artifacts the most. I use my initially-Swarm and Slam deck and modify it into a complete anti-artifact deck. Viridian Shaman, Tel-Jilad Archer, Tel-Jilad Outrider, Tel-Jilad Wolf, Oxidize+Isochron Sceptre...

dude101

04-20-2004, 12:56 PM

AKA:Battousai

04-20-2004, 01:46 PM

if that "is" true it's probably because a lot of new magic players these days are either YGO players or X-YGO players and need something to draw them in to a new game... or are making enough of an impact that the game is evolving into a game that everyone would like playing... we all knew sometime they would start developing the game into a smaller age group...

Broodstar

04-20-2004, 02:43 PM

this is really insane magic is turning into yugi-oh with equip and the artifacts alot of green decks i played uses platinum angel just cus it has flying and a sick effect magic is losing it's originality :rolleyes: Go share your Magic lore with someone else. I have already heard the same tale from a lot of people: OMG Plat Agnel is teh br0ken!!112 Butcher Orgg ruined Magic!!!oneone1

Maybe you should try Naturalizing, Shattering, bouncing, or otherwise dealing with the damn thing instead of complaining like a little girl. I'm too sorry if everyone is playing Platinum Angel against you, because I would indeed be bored if I were totally surrounded by scrubs who build their decks around the Mycosynth Lattice+Leonin Abunas+Darksteel Forge+Platinum Angel combo, and then lose to Furnace Dragon in the only game they are ever able to pull it out.

If you're going to rant about something, rant about Arcbound Ravager and Skullclamp because those are the things many players are starting to see in their nightmares.

the zealotpker

04-27-2004, 05:29 PM

It's pissing me off. Artifacts are boring. Please rant with me.
Here are 6 words that will make you happy:

Mono-Green Control
Molder Slug
Oxidize

SaneHuman

05-04-2004, 05:19 PM

I wonder if Ravager will break into extended the way tog and u/g madness did. It seems to have an okay time in t2 even with the whole world metagaming against it, I would say it's biggest enemy would be Pernicious Deed in extended.

Sailor Mars Dragon

05-04-2004, 06:19 PM

I think most of this emphasis on Artifacts is a waste, but it'll probably change when the next block rolls around, so I don't care too much.

the zealotpker

05-04-2004, 06:36 PM

even raffinity decks are using oxidize and naturalize against each other, and astral slide...

How can astral slides be used against raffinity? I mean, I know that it has some effect, but seriously, isn't it a bit much? There seems to be a lot better stuff than astral slide for side-board options.

I'm just glad Tolarian Academy and Fastbond aren't Type II legal (or Type anything legal other than Type I in which they are both restricted). I already have a deck planned out that can win as soon as a veldaken archmage hits the field if they WERE Type 2 legal.

AKA:Battousai

05-05-2004, 08:45 AM

hmm how do they beat affinity...

astral slide itself is a neat way to do it

you see one of the main ways a ravager deck wins is it'll attack with like 3-4 creatures including ornithopter and ravager and enforcer etc...

usually a deck can't block that many that early especially a wasted block on a flyer with a power of 0...

so if anything would get through the ravager sacks things and makes your opponent lose life to the numbr of the things it sacked...

then they are hit with even more combat damage that usually kills em when all they need to sac is like 6 artifacts...

the slide deck will first target the disciples with either rifts, bolts, after targeting the ravager with the slide...

this forces the ravager deck to respond by sacking things too early in the combat step, which allows the slide deck to either block with a life gaining angel...

also the slide deck can bun away creatures, etc... before they can recieve the bonuses from modular

the ravager deck is just too fragile against slide but it's lucky for ravager that not many people play slide to give it that much trouble

Lich123

05-05-2004, 05:56 PM

actually I'm wholly disgusted with the mana bases in most decks in the currnet type II format. Now its just who gets their post or tron out faster, there is no variety, remember invasion where you actually needed an intensive mana base that evenly blended your colors? I'm SOOOOO SICK OF THIS COLORLESS CRAP. lets look at type two you have almost all raffinity, a couple slides (few and far between) and a couple tooth and nail, but if you go to any tournament you are GAURENTEED to see some form of affinity. There is as little variety on decks as when tog came out.

Sailor Mars Dragon

05-05-2004, 06:03 PM

Well said. I completely agree. I still play the Invasion block because of this. More variety means more things to try out.

x0xRedEyesx0x

05-06-2004, 12:33 PM

Okay, for all the people who are posting here that say they can beat an artifact deck easily...let me ask you one simple question...
Would you run that deck in a tournament????
Answer: No...you would not.
If you're going to have a deck with nothing but artifact hate in it, you're going to get demolished by anything else you play against, I know...I've seen it...

SaneHuman

05-09-2004, 01:02 PM

It's true. I saw countless MRC decks kill about every ravager deck they faced the whole day, and lose to every round they played goblin bidding, or tooth and nail, or astral slide, even MWC beat it up pretty well.

vodkam

05-11-2004, 01:59 PM

I don't have a problem with the all the artifacts. My problem is with the Affinity mechanic. It created a very bad imbalance... I think WotC forgot to include "colorless" as part of the color wheel since right now, RAffinity rules and most other decks have a very hard time against it. There's just too much speed with all the free spells that Affinity gives you. Ravager simply makes all your artifacts unkillable... Try to Naturalize or Oxidize something, it'll just get sacrificed to the Ravager. If anything, they should have made Ravager's ability "Use only when you could play a sorcery" which would have made it far more balanced.

You can maindeck all your artifact hate but it won't be very competitive against anything else.

Even cards like Trinisphere don't help... Sure, you slow down your opponent but you're not going to get it into play before turn 3 which means your opponent will probably have a Disciple, 2 Ornithopters, 2 Frogmites and a Ravager on the field already. Trinisphere would have been cool if it also had Affinity.. then you could get it into play on your first turn... then again, it would make it insane for Type 1. (Tolarian, Lotus, Mox, Mox, Trinisphere... go)

Damping Matrix is about the only thing that shuts down Ravager right now but it's not really usable in any deck except for all the white control variants.

I will say... the most fun I have is when I get to use a Mindslaver when my opponent has a Ravager out and I have my own artifact creature. (Sac everything, including Ravager and put all the counters on my Silver Myr... which is now 15/15)

I'm very bored of my RAffinity deck since it only exists for playing in tournaments. There's really very little strategy with Affinity. I'd rather be playing my fun Memnarch deck.

spartan4life

05-11-2004, 02:34 PM

One thing that pisses me off about Raffinity is that the Ravager has a lot of tricks. vodkam brought up the mindslaver thing. a good raffinity player will just make the ravager eat himself at the end of turn to stop him. Try blasting a ravager with Oxodize, only to make him eat himself and put his 12 +1/+1 counters on a Myr Enforcer. It's just annoying...but when that new Pernicous Deed card from Fifth Dawn (I know that's not the name, but it's something like that) comes around, Raffinity is done. Put 0-2 counters on it. Kill Ravagers and Disciples easily. Basicly shuts the deck down. Then throw a Oxodize on a stick (Scepter really) and that's game.

DemontheStorm

05-11-2004, 02:42 PM

if you look at some of the older cards you could find some cool stuff, like builder's bane, destroy X target atrifacts and player takes damage from it, i thought that was cool. I especially hate the indestructable stuff they just came out with, it's soooooooooo stupid. It just ruins magic altogether. And i agree that they need to go back to the color based stuff, that IS so much more fun.

vodkam

05-11-2004, 02:54 PM

but when that new Pernicous Deed card from Fifth Dawn (I know that's not the name, but it's something like that) comes around, Raffinity is done. Put 0-2 counters on it. Kill Ravagers and Disciples easily. Basicly shuts the deck down. Then throw a Oxodize on a stick (Scepter really) and that's game.

Engineered Explosives won't shut down RAffinity because it's more like Powder Keg than Pernicious Deed. It only destroys things with a converted mana cost equal to the number of charge counters... no more, no less. It also won't kill artifact lands like Pernicious Deed will.

2 counters means it only kills Ravagers... no Frogmites, Myr Enforcers or Disciples.

What I would have really liked to have been reprinted is Spike Cannibal... Comes into play and steals every +1/+1 counter and only costs 3 mana.

Shatterstorm is probably the best hoser for RAffinity but I doubt we'll see it until 9th Edition if at all.