WildWill
01-06-2005, 01:44 PM
Trading Forum Rules for ALL Forums
If you want to trade on Pojo.com, you MUST follow these rules. The Pojo.com trading committee reserves the right to prohibit ANY user from trading any commodity for failure to follow these rules.
Before we get started - a quick note - Trading here is a PRIVILEGE, not a God Given Right, and management reserves the right to revoke that privilege for any user for any reason.
If you have ANY questions regarding these rules, or trading in general, check out our Q&A thread located Here (http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=117864).
0. OUR RULES TRUMP YOUR RULES. You can put rules on your trade thread, like "I won't send overseas" or the like, but in EVERY CASE, these Universal Trading Forum Rules trump yours. NO MATTER WHAT. Don't like our rules? Don't trade here. We won't miss you, I assure you of that.
1. To start your own trading thread, YOU MUST post a full list of haves and wants. In order to trade you do not have to have a list of haves and wants, if you don't want to start your own thread. But if you want your own thread, it MUST have a full haves/wants list. And not just one or two cards on either. This is a TRADING forum, do some trading. If you do not post a full haves/wants list you can count on your thread being locked and or deleted. The reason for this is that we are trying to save on resources. If you don't post a full haves/wants list you tax our resources. If for whatever reason you don't want to post a full list, you can still trade, you just can't start your own thread.
2. REFERENCES – Whoever has fewer references sends first. What’s a reference? It’s a number that determines how many different people you have traded with successfully. It shows how trustworthy you are. Face it, trading on the internet is risky, there's a chance you won't get what you have been promised. But with the reference system in place, you can be relatively assured that if you're trading with someone with a high rating you'll get your cards. Now, does that mean you shouldn't trade with someone with a low rating? No, but it does mean you should exercise extreme caution when doing so. And if someone with very few posts and a decent trader rating PMs you to make a deal, be wary, because they most likely want to rip you off.
We have recently switched to a new system called “The Trader Rating”. Your trader rating is the little clickable number underneath your name. Each user starts with ZERO, and it can go up (or down) depending on the trades you make. The Trader Rating is a system designed to work just like Ebay’s reference system. If you make a trade, when you receive your cards, you leave a positive feedback for your trading partner. If something went wrong in your trade, you may leave a neutral or negative feedback, but if you do, you must be prepared to accept a neutral or negative feedback in return.
2a. EXISTING REFERENCES – Because we implemented the trading rating system only a few months ago, and most users already HAD an existing number of references in many forums, we combined all the existing references into one master list, which can be found HERE: Master Trading Pojo References List. In order to determine who sends first you need to calculate your TOTAL references. You do that by finding your name on the master list (use Control F if necessary), and adding that number to your current number of references. For example, at the time of this writing I have 27 references on the master list (note, your rating on the master list WILL NOT EVER CHANGE), and I currently have 19 on the new system for a total of 46 references (27+19=46). I would send first to anyone with 47 references or more, and anyone with 46 references or less would send first to me. THERE IS NO GETTING AROUND THIS RULE. YOU CANNOT FORCE SOMEONE TO SEND FIRST, unless you have more references then they do. Anyone found with a rule on thier list saying "I won't send first" or "You send first" will have their thread automatically locked, and you won't be able to trade for a while.
2b. The BAD LIST – Unlike the Master-List, the Badlist CAN be changed when necessary. Once you are on the Bad List, you can NOT be taken off, except in extraordinary circumstances. If you plan to trade with someone on this list, that USER MUST send first, with no exceptions.
ONLY moderators can place a user on The Bad List and we will requires a higher standard of proof for someone being placed on the Bad List. Most of these will also get you banned, but for some minor offenses we may not ban the user, just forbid them from trading.
The following can get you put on the Bad List (but is by no means the ONLY ways you can get put on the bad list)
*Stealing cards (getting cards sent to you and not sending back, also known as Ripping)
*Sending fake cards
*Giving an address that is not your own
*False references (this includes leaving refs when no trading has occurred)
*Impostering (trying to pose as someone else that has a good reputation)
*Repeatedly refusing to send first when you have fewer references
*Repeatedly violating these Universal Trading Forum rules.
2C. Negative References: YOU MAY NOT FORCE USERS WHO HAVE NEGATIVE REFERENCES TO SEND FIRST. That means no rules such as "If you have negative references you send first." in your rules listing. EXCEPTION: If a moderator on the trading committee gives you a negative reference that says "THIS USER SENDS FIRST UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE". That particular user ALWAYS sends first until that notice is removed.
You MAY have a rule such as "I WILL NOT TRADE WITH TRADERS WHO HAVE NEGATIVE REFERENCES" or "I WILL NOT TRADE OVERSEAS", that is fine. But you cannot blanketly make users with negative references to send first. For example: User "ILOVEYGO" starts a trade thread and has 12 references in the new system and none on the master list. User "IHEARTDBZ" has 2 references on the master list and 14 total on the new system, but actually has 15 positive and 1 negative reference making a total of 14. The first user would still send first because he only has 12, whereas the second user has 16.
Anyone found stating "YOU SEND FIRST IF YOU HAVE NEGATIVE REFERENCES" or failing to follow the ref rule will lose their trading priviledges for a period of one week on first offense. Longer on multiple offenses.
2d. REF SCAMMING. What is ref-scamming? That's where you either a) make up multiple accounts in order to give references to one account to increase your trader rating, or b) have your friends give you references for trades you made without Pojo being involved, or that don't exist at all. In either case, if you are caught ref-scamming, you can guarantee that you will be banned. There are several moderators on the PTC who hate ref-scammers, and if it goes to a vote of the PTC, it won't go your way.
Ignorance of the rules is no excuse. If we hear "I didn't know it was wrong" you'll be banned just like everyone else. Trades you make in person DO NOT add to your credibility when doing trades on the internet. So...words to the wise, if you do a trade on Pojo, KEEP TRACK of the proof. We may ask to see it, and if you don't have it, it will be assumed that it never existed. And then you'll be SOL. You can download your private messages to a text file. You can keep track of your trade threads.
In order to get and receive a VALID trader reference on Pojo.com, ALL negotiations should be done on POJO, either in the thread itself, or via Private Message. Negotiations done on other chatting services such as AIM, or MSN will not be valid for proof of a trade done on Pojo. This is VERY cut and dry here people, these rules are in existence now and forever, so ignorance is no excuse.
3. How to Package and Ship your cards. YOU MUST SEND YOUR CARDS IN A TOP-LOADER. They are cheap and easy to find, and will protect cards in the mail. If you don't, you will earn negative references from your peers. Padded envelopes are optional, but recommended. I try to use them on all my trades, and I recycle them as well by using the ones people send me over again. I use plenty of shipping tape and staples to make sure they stay closed. You may use Delivery Confirmation at your discretion. If you have valuable cards, I would recommend it. In addition, insurance is VERY CHEAP. When you’re doing a high value trade (pretty much anything worth $20 or more), it’s almost a prerequisite.
3a. I didn't send with enough postage. Can I back out of the trade?
NO, Absolutely NOT! In fact what you should do is include something to compensate your partner for the added time it's going to take to get them their cards. We are getting a LOT of people who claim that they haven't put on enough postage lately. THAT'S LAME. Postage scales cost a whopping $12-15 bucks. If you do a lot of trading BUY ONE. The U.S. Postal Service has a GREAT website that lets you calculate the cost of shipping ANY package. Not enough postage is not a viable excuse, it just means you're lazy.
4. Each user is allowed ONE active trading topic at a time, and may only start ONE new topic each week. This is in force now for EVERY trading forum, not just the YGO trade forum. The reason being is that the trade forums get highly clogged up with multiple lists that say the same thing. If you are found to have more than one active topic started within a seven day period, you will have all of your topics locked or deleted, and you will be prohibited from starting a new topic for a period of at least 7 days. If you break that prohibition you will be temp banned for at least 3 days. If you keep doing it, you will be permanently banned.
5. VERY IMPORTANT - BUMPING your thread will NOT be tolerated in ANY forum other than the Yugioh trade forums. In the Yugioh trade forum, and ONLY the Yugioh trade forum, you may bump your topic once every 48 hours. If you bump sooner than 48 hours in the YGO trade forum, or bump at all in any other forum, you will you will have all of your topics locked or deleted, and you will be prohibited from starting a new topic for a period of at least 7 days. If you break that prohibition you will be temp banned for at least 3 days. If you keep doing it, you will be permanently banned....And if no one wants your cards, then so be it. You are allowed to edit your first post to update your list.
6. NO SALE ONLY TOPICS. NO AUCTIONS - You may no longer post "Sell Only" topics in the Trade Forums. Pojo pays a lot of money to keep these forums running, and it isn't fair that people waste his bandwidth making money for themselves. This includes "I'm getting out of the game, selling all cards!" topics. Simultaneous trading/selling on your trade list is fine, as long as selling isn't your primary goal (There's Ebay for that). We have a ZERO Tolerance policy on this. You may do some selling with your trading, but you may not be doing mostly selling or all selling. You MUST be doing SOME trading. And if you think you’re going to get around the rule by having only a few high end wants that no one is going to have, you’re quite mistaken. If you are caught doing an auction or having a sell-only topic, you will be punished. We pay good money for these boards, and it really cheeses us off when we're abused like that. So if you're caught, accept the consequences and move on, because if you whine about it, you're likely to find yourself not being able to trade here at all.
There are to be NO AUCTIONS OF ANY KIND. That includes auctions for money or bidding on a card with other cards.
Additionally, there is to be no selling of Heroclix or Versus cards on Pojo.com. PERIOD.
7. DO NOT post your address or other personal information in this forum. Conduct your final negotiations via email or PM, so that you have a record, AND KEEP THOSE EMAILS OR PMS UNTIL THE DEAL IS FINISHED. Everyone has a 50 PM limit, however, you can DOWNLOAD your PMs to your hard drive, so saying "I deleted the PMS" is no excuse. I HIGHLY recommend that you get and verify an outside email address, and not rely on Pojo for your only form of communication with your trading partners. DO NOT ASK FOR SOMEONE's EMAIL ADDRESS AFTER THE FACT. GET IT UP FRONT AND VERIFY IT.
8. POJO.Com takes no responsibility for the trades that you decide to make.
9. All other forum rules apply here, no spamming, no bashing, flooding, etc.
10. What constitutes a trade? - Recently, it has come into question as to when a trade is official. We thought it would be wise to set up some guidelines -- because if someone has second thoughts before the end of the trade, and the trade isn't confirmed, a neutral or negative feedback is not appropriate. Therefore, the following must occur before a trade is official:
*Exchange of Address
*Confirmation on the deal by both sides
Example: Person A says "I'll trade you my non-mint Don Zaloog for your Goblin Attack Force".
Person B says "Okay".
*Confirmation on who is sending first, and any shipping options
Example:
Person A says "I have 12 refs, you have 8. You would be sending first."
Person B says "I'll send out tomorrow."
Shipping options example:
Person A says "I need those cards by Saturday...is it possible for us to both send Priority Mail?"
Person B says "I don't need the cards that quickly...but if you reimburse me, I'll send. You can either send me cash, or throw in that D. D. Warrior Lady."
Person A says "I'll add the D D Warrior Lady."
As with most rules, there are exceptions:
*If you post that you'll make a trade, and the other person accepts, and the other person IMMEDIATELY backs out, as if joking or taunting, that's illegal, and will probably get you temp banned.
*If you exchanged addresses, and agreed on a deal, but one trader tries to back out because they would have to send first, that's a breach of the rules, and you may leave a neutral or negative feedback accordingly.
Remember, we are not responsible for the trades you make. Common Sense should dictate your actions. CHECK YOUR TRADING PARTNER'S Reference RATINGS YOURSELF! GET AN EMAIL ADDRESS when you trade so that you can contact that person outside of the board if need be. We do our best to make sure that our members don't get ripped off, but sometimes it's not enough, so make sure you protect yourself.
Do not EVER EVER post your email address or your home address on a public message board. Especially this one.
Don't trade something you can't afford to lose until you have built up a trust with your trading partner
Finally, have fun and Happy Trading!
SPECIAL NOTE - Do NOT break the 1 Trade thread a week rule. It really gets us mad and you don't want us mad. It makes more work for all of us mods, and it basically puts you on our watch list. If you break the ONE TRADE THREAD PER WEEK RULE, you will lose all trading privileges for one week. Temp bans will be issued if you persist.
The Moderators
If you want to trade on Pojo.com, you MUST follow these rules. The Pojo.com trading committee reserves the right to prohibit ANY user from trading any commodity for failure to follow these rules.
Before we get started - a quick note - Trading here is a PRIVILEGE, not a God Given Right, and management reserves the right to revoke that privilege for any user for any reason.
If you have ANY questions regarding these rules, or trading in general, check out our Q&A thread located Here (http://www.pojo.biz/board/showthread.php?t=117864).
0. OUR RULES TRUMP YOUR RULES. You can put rules on your trade thread, like "I won't send overseas" or the like, but in EVERY CASE, these Universal Trading Forum Rules trump yours. NO MATTER WHAT. Don't like our rules? Don't trade here. We won't miss you, I assure you of that.
1. To start your own trading thread, YOU MUST post a full list of haves and wants. In order to trade you do not have to have a list of haves and wants, if you don't want to start your own thread. But if you want your own thread, it MUST have a full haves/wants list. And not just one or two cards on either. This is a TRADING forum, do some trading. If you do not post a full haves/wants list you can count on your thread being locked and or deleted. The reason for this is that we are trying to save on resources. If you don't post a full haves/wants list you tax our resources. If for whatever reason you don't want to post a full list, you can still trade, you just can't start your own thread.
2. REFERENCES – Whoever has fewer references sends first. What’s a reference? It’s a number that determines how many different people you have traded with successfully. It shows how trustworthy you are. Face it, trading on the internet is risky, there's a chance you won't get what you have been promised. But with the reference system in place, you can be relatively assured that if you're trading with someone with a high rating you'll get your cards. Now, does that mean you shouldn't trade with someone with a low rating? No, but it does mean you should exercise extreme caution when doing so. And if someone with very few posts and a decent trader rating PMs you to make a deal, be wary, because they most likely want to rip you off.
We have recently switched to a new system called “The Trader Rating”. Your trader rating is the little clickable number underneath your name. Each user starts with ZERO, and it can go up (or down) depending on the trades you make. The Trader Rating is a system designed to work just like Ebay’s reference system. If you make a trade, when you receive your cards, you leave a positive feedback for your trading partner. If something went wrong in your trade, you may leave a neutral or negative feedback, but if you do, you must be prepared to accept a neutral or negative feedback in return.
2a. EXISTING REFERENCES – Because we implemented the trading rating system only a few months ago, and most users already HAD an existing number of references in many forums, we combined all the existing references into one master list, which can be found HERE: Master Trading Pojo References List. In order to determine who sends first you need to calculate your TOTAL references. You do that by finding your name on the master list (use Control F if necessary), and adding that number to your current number of references. For example, at the time of this writing I have 27 references on the master list (note, your rating on the master list WILL NOT EVER CHANGE), and I currently have 19 on the new system for a total of 46 references (27+19=46). I would send first to anyone with 47 references or more, and anyone with 46 references or less would send first to me. THERE IS NO GETTING AROUND THIS RULE. YOU CANNOT FORCE SOMEONE TO SEND FIRST, unless you have more references then they do. Anyone found with a rule on thier list saying "I won't send first" or "You send first" will have their thread automatically locked, and you won't be able to trade for a while.
2b. The BAD LIST – Unlike the Master-List, the Badlist CAN be changed when necessary. Once you are on the Bad List, you can NOT be taken off, except in extraordinary circumstances. If you plan to trade with someone on this list, that USER MUST send first, with no exceptions.
ONLY moderators can place a user on The Bad List and we will requires a higher standard of proof for someone being placed on the Bad List. Most of these will also get you banned, but for some minor offenses we may not ban the user, just forbid them from trading.
The following can get you put on the Bad List (but is by no means the ONLY ways you can get put on the bad list)
*Stealing cards (getting cards sent to you and not sending back, also known as Ripping)
*Sending fake cards
*Giving an address that is not your own
*False references (this includes leaving refs when no trading has occurred)
*Impostering (trying to pose as someone else that has a good reputation)
*Repeatedly refusing to send first when you have fewer references
*Repeatedly violating these Universal Trading Forum rules.
2C. Negative References: YOU MAY NOT FORCE USERS WHO HAVE NEGATIVE REFERENCES TO SEND FIRST. That means no rules such as "If you have negative references you send first." in your rules listing. EXCEPTION: If a moderator on the trading committee gives you a negative reference that says "THIS USER SENDS FIRST UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE". That particular user ALWAYS sends first until that notice is removed.
You MAY have a rule such as "I WILL NOT TRADE WITH TRADERS WHO HAVE NEGATIVE REFERENCES" or "I WILL NOT TRADE OVERSEAS", that is fine. But you cannot blanketly make users with negative references to send first. For example: User "ILOVEYGO" starts a trade thread and has 12 references in the new system and none on the master list. User "IHEARTDBZ" has 2 references on the master list and 14 total on the new system, but actually has 15 positive and 1 negative reference making a total of 14. The first user would still send first because he only has 12, whereas the second user has 16.
Anyone found stating "YOU SEND FIRST IF YOU HAVE NEGATIVE REFERENCES" or failing to follow the ref rule will lose their trading priviledges for a period of one week on first offense. Longer on multiple offenses.
2d. REF SCAMMING. What is ref-scamming? That's where you either a) make up multiple accounts in order to give references to one account to increase your trader rating, or b) have your friends give you references for trades you made without Pojo being involved, or that don't exist at all. In either case, if you are caught ref-scamming, you can guarantee that you will be banned. There are several moderators on the PTC who hate ref-scammers, and if it goes to a vote of the PTC, it won't go your way.
Ignorance of the rules is no excuse. If we hear "I didn't know it was wrong" you'll be banned just like everyone else. Trades you make in person DO NOT add to your credibility when doing trades on the internet. So...words to the wise, if you do a trade on Pojo, KEEP TRACK of the proof. We may ask to see it, and if you don't have it, it will be assumed that it never existed. And then you'll be SOL. You can download your private messages to a text file. You can keep track of your trade threads.
In order to get and receive a VALID trader reference on Pojo.com, ALL negotiations should be done on POJO, either in the thread itself, or via Private Message. Negotiations done on other chatting services such as AIM, or MSN will not be valid for proof of a trade done on Pojo. This is VERY cut and dry here people, these rules are in existence now and forever, so ignorance is no excuse.
3. How to Package and Ship your cards. YOU MUST SEND YOUR CARDS IN A TOP-LOADER. They are cheap and easy to find, and will protect cards in the mail. If you don't, you will earn negative references from your peers. Padded envelopes are optional, but recommended. I try to use them on all my trades, and I recycle them as well by using the ones people send me over again. I use plenty of shipping tape and staples to make sure they stay closed. You may use Delivery Confirmation at your discretion. If you have valuable cards, I would recommend it. In addition, insurance is VERY CHEAP. When you’re doing a high value trade (pretty much anything worth $20 or more), it’s almost a prerequisite.
3a. I didn't send with enough postage. Can I back out of the trade?
NO, Absolutely NOT! In fact what you should do is include something to compensate your partner for the added time it's going to take to get them their cards. We are getting a LOT of people who claim that they haven't put on enough postage lately. THAT'S LAME. Postage scales cost a whopping $12-15 bucks. If you do a lot of trading BUY ONE. The U.S. Postal Service has a GREAT website that lets you calculate the cost of shipping ANY package. Not enough postage is not a viable excuse, it just means you're lazy.
4. Each user is allowed ONE active trading topic at a time, and may only start ONE new topic each week. This is in force now for EVERY trading forum, not just the YGO trade forum. The reason being is that the trade forums get highly clogged up with multiple lists that say the same thing. If you are found to have more than one active topic started within a seven day period, you will have all of your topics locked or deleted, and you will be prohibited from starting a new topic for a period of at least 7 days. If you break that prohibition you will be temp banned for at least 3 days. If you keep doing it, you will be permanently banned.
5. VERY IMPORTANT - BUMPING your thread will NOT be tolerated in ANY forum other than the Yugioh trade forums. In the Yugioh trade forum, and ONLY the Yugioh trade forum, you may bump your topic once every 48 hours. If you bump sooner than 48 hours in the YGO trade forum, or bump at all in any other forum, you will you will have all of your topics locked or deleted, and you will be prohibited from starting a new topic for a period of at least 7 days. If you break that prohibition you will be temp banned for at least 3 days. If you keep doing it, you will be permanently banned....And if no one wants your cards, then so be it. You are allowed to edit your first post to update your list.
6. NO SALE ONLY TOPICS. NO AUCTIONS - You may no longer post "Sell Only" topics in the Trade Forums. Pojo pays a lot of money to keep these forums running, and it isn't fair that people waste his bandwidth making money for themselves. This includes "I'm getting out of the game, selling all cards!" topics. Simultaneous trading/selling on your trade list is fine, as long as selling isn't your primary goal (There's Ebay for that). We have a ZERO Tolerance policy on this. You may do some selling with your trading, but you may not be doing mostly selling or all selling. You MUST be doing SOME trading. And if you think you’re going to get around the rule by having only a few high end wants that no one is going to have, you’re quite mistaken. If you are caught doing an auction or having a sell-only topic, you will be punished. We pay good money for these boards, and it really cheeses us off when we're abused like that. So if you're caught, accept the consequences and move on, because if you whine about it, you're likely to find yourself not being able to trade here at all.
There are to be NO AUCTIONS OF ANY KIND. That includes auctions for money or bidding on a card with other cards.
Additionally, there is to be no selling of Heroclix or Versus cards on Pojo.com. PERIOD.
7. DO NOT post your address or other personal information in this forum. Conduct your final negotiations via email or PM, so that you have a record, AND KEEP THOSE EMAILS OR PMS UNTIL THE DEAL IS FINISHED. Everyone has a 50 PM limit, however, you can DOWNLOAD your PMs to your hard drive, so saying "I deleted the PMS" is no excuse. I HIGHLY recommend that you get and verify an outside email address, and not rely on Pojo for your only form of communication with your trading partners. DO NOT ASK FOR SOMEONE's EMAIL ADDRESS AFTER THE FACT. GET IT UP FRONT AND VERIFY IT.
8. POJO.Com takes no responsibility for the trades that you decide to make.
9. All other forum rules apply here, no spamming, no bashing, flooding, etc.
10. What constitutes a trade? - Recently, it has come into question as to when a trade is official. We thought it would be wise to set up some guidelines -- because if someone has second thoughts before the end of the trade, and the trade isn't confirmed, a neutral or negative feedback is not appropriate. Therefore, the following must occur before a trade is official:
*Exchange of Address
*Confirmation on the deal by both sides
Example: Person A says "I'll trade you my non-mint Don Zaloog for your Goblin Attack Force".
Person B says "Okay".
*Confirmation on who is sending first, and any shipping options
Example:
Person A says "I have 12 refs, you have 8. You would be sending first."
Person B says "I'll send out tomorrow."
Shipping options example:
Person A says "I need those cards by Saturday...is it possible for us to both send Priority Mail?"
Person B says "I don't need the cards that quickly...but if you reimburse me, I'll send. You can either send me cash, or throw in that D. D. Warrior Lady."
Person A says "I'll add the D D Warrior Lady."
As with most rules, there are exceptions:
*If you post that you'll make a trade, and the other person accepts, and the other person IMMEDIATELY backs out, as if joking or taunting, that's illegal, and will probably get you temp banned.
*If you exchanged addresses, and agreed on a deal, but one trader tries to back out because they would have to send first, that's a breach of the rules, and you may leave a neutral or negative feedback accordingly.
Remember, we are not responsible for the trades you make. Common Sense should dictate your actions. CHECK YOUR TRADING PARTNER'S Reference RATINGS YOURSELF! GET AN EMAIL ADDRESS when you trade so that you can contact that person outside of the board if need be. We do our best to make sure that our members don't get ripped off, but sometimes it's not enough, so make sure you protect yourself.
Do not EVER EVER post your email address or your home address on a public message board. Especially this one.
Don't trade something you can't afford to lose until you have built up a trust with your trading partner
Finally, have fun and Happy Trading!
SPECIAL NOTE - Do NOT break the 1 Trade thread a week rule. It really gets us mad and you don't want us mad. It makes more work for all of us mods, and it basically puts you on our watch list. If you break the ONE TRADE THREAD PER WEEK RULE, you will lose all trading privileges for one week. Temp bans will be issued if you persist.
The Moderators