Why isn't Exodia a viable deck in the OCG?

[Blankauctions]

If your playing with banlist, why doesn't Exodia see more play in the OCG?

I guess it took a beating with the banning of Sixth Sense right?

[Ryusaki]

Playing Sixth Sense in an Exodia deck would have been incredibly risky. If you fail the roll you're basically screwed, unless you are very lucky and Exodia is not near the top of your deck. Of course, this would mean you don't have much chance of drawing it.

[Pharaoh Atem]

Of course, you're neglecting the fact that in many Exodia Decks, the Graveyard is nothing more than a slightly-more-vulnerable version of the hand.

All pieces in Grave and Hand = You had BETTER move it and finish off the Exodia player.

Exodia's just not attempted often, is all. The Banning of Sixth Sense hurt EVERY deck in the game, Although it probably did hurt Exodia and RW a tad bit more than others.

When it came down to it, Sixth Sense had no Drawback at all.

Don't try to argue that point back at me - I've already gone through X amount of topics proving my claim.

Exodia is perfectly fine in the OCG. I wouldn't be surprised to see some combos with Metamorphosis or Goblin Management + Provisions.

[jackleone50]

what does 6th sense do?

[OliverPhoenix]

Sixth sense is now no more than a bad distant memory and it would be nice to leave it that way,the time when you were allowed to use 3 a deck was just awful :( .

I rarely see any OCG Exodia decks being played but now that Scientist is out the window i'm sure people who played OTK decks will give it a try,personally though decks like that aren't my style and never will be.

[Blankauctions]

Sixth sense is now no more than a bad distant memory and it would be nice to leave it that way,the time when you were allowed to use 3 a deck was just awful :( .

I rarely see any OCG Exodia decks being played but now that Scientist is out the window i'm sure people who played OTK decks will give it a try,personally though decks like that aren't my style and never will be.

I've noticed 1 person use an OCG Exodia Deck with a Fusion Deck ^_^... i couldn't believe it.

[Pharaoh Atem]

It's probably a cross of Exodia and Morph.

Considering that Magician of Faith can be used for Draw Spell Abuse, and Morphs into TER for Stall and Monster Removal, it's not that farfetched of a concept.

[Astrael]

The OCG has easier access to Metamol Pod (Morphing Jar). And sees a lot of play. I'm not sure if that's the actual problem, but it certainly doesn't help the situation, now does it? Exodia will more than likely see less play after BE2 comes out in the states.

Another reason might be that TCG players still consider Exodia a novelty, since it was only printed twice as a complete set. Thus, it's still highly valued. They are willing to tread dangerous terrain to make their hard-earned prize work.

[Pharaoh Atem]

Ah, but remember what I said?

Of course, you're neglecting the fact that in many Exodia Decks, the Graveyard is nothing more than a slightly-more-vulnerable version of the hand.

Morphing Jar can't do a dang thing about that fact.

The only real problem Morphing Jar could cause would be a problem of being unable to get all the pieces after all your Pharaoh's Treasure/Monster Reincarnation/Feather of the Phoenix were all used up.

[Warakia]

Ummm...when was Exodia not viable in the ocg? If anything I can be a more evil decktype in the ocg than the tcg. If you mean why haven't anybody on this forum posted up an Exodia deck then it's probably because us POJO ocg duelist's a very original and we have no need for such cheapness to win. :p

[Ryusaki]

We'd rather die! *Salutes*.

[Warakia]

We'd rather die! *Salutes*.

Yes and how very true those words are! :p

[Blankauctions]

Ummm...when was Exodia not viable in the ocg? If anything I can be a more evil decktype in the ocg than the tcg. If you mean why haven't anybody on this forum posted up an Exodia deck then it's probably because us POJO ocg duelist's a very original and we have no need for such cheapness to win. :p

In general, I haven't seen many Exodia OCG decks... and i also can't seem to trade my JPN Exodia Cards ^_^, not just on POJO.

[Astrael]

Morphing Jar can't do a dang thing about that fact.

The only real problem Morphing Jar could cause would be a problem of being unable to get all the pieces after all your Pharaoh's Treasure/Monster Reincarnation/Feather of the Phoenix were all used up.

One can simply play Exchange and ruin the strategy beyond repair. The opponent need not lay a finger on the Exodia player, since said player will deck himself out soon after.

It may be true that Morphing Jar isn't the solution to Exodia, as I said so myself, but it can be a nightmare if played at the correct moment regardless of whatever safeguards the Exodia player thinks he has in place. Be it a finishing blow to the deck itself, or simply delaying Exodia by a single turn. My point was simply that OCG decks have better access to hand disruption. Maybe I was wrong in assuming hand disruption was one of many ways to combat the notorious Exodia? You'd need a lot of jank main-decked to keep Exodia in your hand. Which may be the actual reason it isn't so popular.

[DarkNecrophia312]

Looking at the Japan meta myself...I don't see that many Exodia deck either...

Oh well...they're way to valuable to most deck, not to mention they're very unstable that most people tend to stay away from it...

I think the only Exodia deck left is Normalcy-Normal Monster Exodia and Manticore Loop Exodia...NO ONE use the draw-draw-draw Exodia deck anyway...

[Tsurai-Shi]

i heard on Edo's site that in Japan there's a FTK Exodia deck that utilized Reversal of Worlds and Makyura....but i guess that deck is pretty much dead with Makyura being banned....

[Pharaoh Atem]

Dead, no.

Honestly, if they were to ban Makyura, you'd think that they'd do something about Pharaoh's Shrine.

It doesn't work with Chick the Yellow, but it now keeps the RW FTK alive. That said, it's compatible with the Exodia/RW mix.

Astrael: I'd consider D.D. Designator to be a bit more troublesome than Exchange, but both work.

Perhaps the greatest foe of all to Exodia is indeed that ease of how to deal with it. If you know that the opponent has a piece, all it would take for you to win would be to keep that piece out of reach.

The only problem is when you don't manage to steal a piece before the Exodia player draws most of their cards.

[Tsurai-Shi]

Dead, no..

if you'll notice i said "pretty much"....which means not actually dead, but close to it...

[Pharaoh Atem]

if you'll notice i said "pretty much"....which means not actually dead, but close to it...

I know, and I more or less still disagree using the same point of context.

Pharaoh's Shrine permits it's user to activate Traps on the same turn that they are set. It more or less provides a continuous Makyura effect, outside of a few negligible limitations.

[DarkNecrophia312]

Shrine may have similar effect to Makyura...but...let see...

Makyura is a thin-deck material...before the ban, [Painful Choice] + 2x [Makyura] means you thin your deck + can use Trap from hand

Shrine, on the other hand, needs you to draw it, play it, set Trap, and hoping your opponent don't destroy it...

Without [Painful Choice]...Exodia is pretty much doom...before I can dumb all the limbs and use [Dark Factory of Mass Production] to get them back easily...

Then, without [Fiber Jar], the last-ditch recovery card is gone as well...

[Pharoah's Treasure], [Monster Reincarination], [Feather of Neprthys] (sp?) don't help much either...they waste too much resource just to get something back (and slow down the whole process of drawing Exodia...then, w/o Painful Choice, you can't use the dumb-"reincarinate" strategy)

OTK loops are not that stable...so...

Conclusion: It's just hard to run them...when people can just use something like [Chaos Soldier] to win...

I won't be surprised, though, if there's a Exodia deck somewhere winning a major tourney.

[Warakia]

Well if no one runs Exodia then why doesn't KOJ just ban that sucker already? I mean think of how many cards have to be banned and restricted because of Exodia decks abusing them. A LOT! If Exodia was out of the picture this game could get a lot better.

[Ryusaki]

Awwwwww, did little wittle YamiBakuraFan have a bad expewience with Exowdia? Teww Mister Ryusaki all abowt it. :p

[Pharaoh Atem]

Well if no one runs Exodia then why doesn't KOJ just ban that sucker already? I mean think of how many cards have to be banned and restricted because of Exodia decks abusing them. A LOT! If Exodia was out of the picture this game could get a lot better.

Exodia isn't a CC, nor is it broken. It may only have one goal, but that goal is somewhat legit compared to the use of Chaos Soldier and others.

Why ban something that doesn't deserve to be banned?

We shouldn't ban something that isn't broken in order to bring back something that IS broken.

Painful and Sixth were mistakes made by Konami. They shouldn't exist in the first place.

Banning poor old Exodia just to fortify the further unlimitation of Staple Speed cards is a 100% flawed idea.

The major reason of such is that people THINK that Exodia is the only reason that said cards are restricted/banned.

Exodia isn't the reason - It's because the cards are inherently broken in any deck.

Yes, Painful is broken. Fact.

Sixth is broken. Fact.

Graceful is broken, and I've no damn clue as to why they gave it back.

Pot is arguably broken, and would definitely be broken in copies.

Cards that lend +3 and above Speed on a mere whim with a 1 card investment do NOT belong in this game, REGARDLESS of any who say otherwise.

Banning innocent Exodia for such a purpose is a feeble attempt at best to bring back said cards.

In a way, it'd be like Banning the Turtle instead of the Scientist. The Scientist is broken, but it needs the Turtle for it's most irritating quality.

Konami made the right move by banning Scientist and leaving Turtle alone.

Konami is also making the right move by limiting/banning Speed cards and leaving Exodia alone.

[DarkNecrophia312]

YamiBakuraFan: IMO...I mention banning Exodia on ALL my ban guess...XDDD

But it's also true that banning Exodia won't get many cards unrestrict...

[MercenaryBDU]

Exodia was a great type of deck with the 6th Sence card in one of it's slots. I hoped to use it when it was avalable in the US.

[Strategy Master]

=/

Exodia is one of the top Deck types in Japan.... Why cause it has the two of the few FTK combos left in the game...

Though admittedly The new semi-restriction of one card will hurt it...

Atem, I'm quite suprised you have failed to mention that with the new bans Exodia just takes a different form...

Exodia Decks are run in Japan, and there are two distinct FTKs with it... With the ban of Executioner - Makyura it is a little less deadly.. But it was not a banned card that slightly weakend the Deck type.... =/

Far from it.... Pharaoh's Shrine is the more common card for the FTK in the Asian Exodia Deck. =/

And no it does not include the Manticore of Darkness + Card of Safe Return... Though as I said the Semi-Restriction of a card might result in the combo being added again.

SM

[Pharaoh Atem]

=/

Exodia is one of the top Deck types in Japan.... Why cause it has the two of the few FTK combos left in the game...

Though admittedly The new semi-restriction of one card will hurt it...

Atem, I'm quite suprised you have failed to mention that with the new bans Exodia just takes a different form...

Exodia Decks are run in Japan, and there are two distinct FTKs with it... With the ban of Executioner - Makyura it is a little less deadly.. But it was not a banned card that slightly weakend the Deck type.... =/

Far from it.... Pharaoh's Shrine is the more common card for the FTK in the Asian Exodia Deck. =/

And no it does not include the Manticore of Darkness + Card of Safe Return... Though as I said the Semi-Restriction of a card might result in the combo being added again.

SM

If you'd look back, I did mention Pharaoh's Shrine back there.

Banning Makyura didn't do much to stop Exodia or RW with Shrine still out there.

Exodia's probably very viable in the FTK version - With an FTK, the hand isn't vulnerable at all if you accomplish what the goal of the FTK is - An FTK, of course.

The Present FTK components may take a slice at the next list.

Besides, the loss of a Provisions and a Housekeeping won't compensate the fact that this is one of the few FTKs left.

If Konami wants to kill it, they'll probably cut down the components of the FTK further instead of killing Exodia outright.

People seem to want to abuse Drawing cards so badly as to ban a decktype that could do with some more restrictions instead.

Considering that abuse of Pot in more than 1 per is more evil than an FTK, and that ANY use of Graceful is more evil than an FTK, I'd much rather just cut Pharaoh's Shrine to 2 or 1 if needed, cut Upstart back again, and rekill Graceful. Other Limits would see use if needed.

Again, people calling for an Exodia ban remind me of people that wanted Turtle banned.

The problem with Exodia is the FTK - kill it's components, and we have success, while still salvaging the Exodia decktype as something that won't be cheap, but will be themed.

The old problem with Scientist was the FTK, AND the fact that it was cheap as hell outside of it.

Ban the bigger troublemaker. Exodia wasn't much trouble without it's FTK.

[Strategy Master]

You've still missed the Restriction that hurt the OTK Atem.... =/

It is not Goblin Hand Managment nore it is Provisions....

The restriction that hurt it slightly was that of Night Assailant (Can't remember the *** name ^^;; )

The FTK is still in use though I agree fully that Exodia is not a problem, but Shine is used more then Executioner - Makyura in this deck with Remains of Yata-Garasu etc.

Vase of Greed x3
Remains of Yata-Garasu x3
Pharaoh's Shrine

And you'll draw quickly enough the cards needed for the FTK...

With the ban of Painful Choice the Manticore of Darkness + Card of Safe Return fell, as trying to get both Manticore of Darkness into the grave first turn is a pain.... Foolish Burial helps maybe but not enough.

The F/OTK Exodia I am talking about has being around for a while but is not widely used so it is unlikely to be banned... And as you said if it takes over too much it will have the cards involved banned.. But the combo is that using such cards they don't deserve to be banned at all... Just as a unit it is sick.

SM

[Pharaoh Atem]

I don't see how Assailant could help Exodia much. I always considered 3 GGH and 2-3 Provisions in bunches of decks to be a slightly bigger problem.

Then again, I'm only 100% certified in DM expertise, so it's up to you to fill the gaps.

BTW, the OCG name of Assailant is Night Assassin, for your future reference.

[Strategy Master]

I don't see how Assailant could help Exodia much. I always considered 3 GGH and 2-3 Provisions in bunches of decks to be a slightly bigger problem.

Then again, I'm only 100% certified in DM expertise, so it's up to you to fill the gaps.

BTW, the OCG name of Assailant is Night Assassin, for your future reference.
Thanks, I know it but at what ever time last night I posted it I could not remember... (I'm English and I think it 4am at the time)

Sorry to be perfectly honest, the Night Assassin combo is not as used in Japan more used in Hong Kong but:

Magic Shard Excavation x2
Night Assassin x2
Royal Magic Library

Get one Shard in the Grave
Summon Royal Magic Library
Play Magic Shard and discard both Night's
Return the Shard in the Grave and because of Nights effect return both of them to the hand.

1 counter on Library.... Repeat as needed till you have Exodia.

But as I said the cards apart from Night Assassin are all ok cards at best and is unlikely to ever hit the restriction list. But combine it with things like Pharaoh's Shrine and Remains of Yata-Garasu etc, and you can draw the combo extremely quickly which will lead to the draw of the deck.

That is the more common use of Exodia in Japan, and it is used... Though I don't think they tended to max out on Nights anyway.

Provisions and Goblin Hand M was not even a combo in the game when this combo was used.

As I said it is only slightly hurt by the semi-restriction of the Nights... But the GHM and Provisions combo will have just been an addition at a later date, but this Deck was working long before it.

SM

[Pharaoh Atem]

I've never seen the use of Shard outside of an RW idea. Interesting.

I still place a tiny bit more faith into the RW version, though. Probably because I've never seen that other one in action.

[Strategy Master]

1|Lob|Exodia the Forbidden One
1|Lob|Left Arm of the Forbidden One
1|Lob|Left Leg of the Forbidden One
1|Lob|Right Arm of the Forbidden One
1|Lob|Right Leg of the Forbidden One
2|Ast|Night Assailant
2|Mfc|Royal Magical Library
2|Mrd|Magician of Faith
1|Mrd|Sangan
3|Ast|Emissary of the Afterlife

1|Lob|Pot of Greed
1|Sdp|Graceful Charity
2|Mrl|Upstart Goblin
1|Sye|Card Destruction
3|Ioc|Reload
3|Jpc|Magic Shard Excavation
1|Psv|Premature Burial
3|Jpc|Pharaoh's Shrine

3|Lon|Jar of Greed
1|Pgd|Reckless Greed
1|Mrd|Mirror Force
1|Psv|Call Of The Haunted
1|Lon|Torrential Tribute
3|Jpc|Remains of Yata-Garasu

It looks something like that... Though I am short of time and don't have time to put any research into it. That will be a poor form of it I expect. But that is the basis of them

SM

[YGOR Blue Eyes Black]

Do people in Japan not use an Exodia/Morph/Stall/Negation? And then adding Graveyard "recurrsion?"

Essentials:
5 pieces of Exodia
Cyber Jar (probably Side-Deck a Morphing Jar if they play Exchange)
Sangan [now that it's unbanned]
Emissary of the Afterlife [at LEAST 1, maybe 2]
Spirit Reaper (x3) (I'd use Spirit Reaper. If he gets THAT annoying, they'll have to waste a Snatch Steal or other important Equip/targetting Spell to get rid of him)
Magician of Faith (x2)
Sinister Serpent
Pot of Greed
Graceful Charity
Upstart Goblin (x2)
Card Destruction
Scapegoat (x3)
Premature Burial
Call of the Haunted

Morph:
Metamorphosis (x3)
FUSIONS:
Thousand-Eyes Restrict (x3)
Flame Ghost (x3)
Dragoness the Wicked Knight (x3)
Karbonala Warrior (x3)
Darkfire Dragon (x3)

Stall:
Messenger of Peace (x2)
Level Limit - Area B (x2)
Gravity Bind (x2)
*NOTE: With Spirit Reaper and enough Metamorphosising to TER, this should be PLENTY.

Negation:
Magic Jammer (x2)
Solemn Judgment (x3)

Graveyard "Recursion:"
Backup Soldier (x2, maybe x3)
Monster Reincarnation (x2) (for the Exodia head)

TOTAL: 42-44, but with all the stalling and drawing it shouldn't be THAT big a hinderance.

I've tried one in the English game (which by now should not be THAT different than the Japanese) and it works WONDERFULLY. At least, it suits my style (I'll do all the work, they can just sit back and watch).