The Official SOPRANOS Commentary Thread

[New York Man]

I can't wait. It is going to be an emotional season. Who will watch it?

[Arky]

I will be. I requested Sundays off so I could watch it. It's the best show on TV. My best friend has all 4 seasons on DVD...^_^

[WildWill]

Yup, me excited. Though honestly, I'm more looking forward to the new season of Six Feet Under...since I think that's a better show. I was disapointed with both show's last season's though - there were parts of Sopranos fourth season that were virtually unwatchable. It'll be interesting to see where the stories take them this year, since they already have plans for season six, and production will begin shortly after season five ends airing.

[Arky]

According to the IMDb, Steve Buscemi will have a recurring role in season 5, which makes me very happy. Buscemi also directed a couple episodes, including Pine Barrens, one of my favorite episodes in the entire series...

[WildWill]

I THOUGHT I saw Robert Loggia in one of the promos too...I could be wrong though, it could have been Hesh, but I wasn't paying that close attention to it.

[Omar Harris]

Wait, I thought this was supposed to be the last season. ARGH! Missing too much. OK, I know Ralphie got decapitated, Tony and his wife seperated, and she's in love with his cousin, and Tony's cousin tried to kill him or something. Is that right? What other important stuff happened? What happened to Melody after Jr. died?

[TrU 0uTlAw]

I don't think I'll be watching it. I find it entertaining, but I always forget that it's on. So, I just won't watch it all together. I'll wait for it to come out on DVD.

[Jmanunknown]

i'm gonna watch i hope i just don't forget when it comes on.

[bountyhunterbebop]

I'll def. watch it. So will my mom, cuz she's in love with it.

[WildWill]

Changing the name of this thread to an officially sounding one, since I'm sure we'll have some comments...I know I'll give you my thoughts on it Sunday night.

[New York Man]

Excellent idea WildWill. I will also make comments.How many new episodes are there going to be?

[New York Man]

Last nights episode was excellent. The bear part was hilariouse. Tony and Carmella will argue again next week.

Everyone calls me AJ too which stands for Anthony Joseph.

Quote of the Night
AJ:Mommy!



Where did the sticky go?

[Arky]

The part with the waiter wa HILARIOUS. I cracked up during the whole scene. An overall great episode. This really has me pumped for this season. I can't wait until next episode. Steve Buscemi will have a huge role in it.

[New York Man]

What do you think will happen in the season finale? I think Christopher will get whacked by Phil. Poor Adriana.:(

[WildWill]

I dunno what's gonna happen, but it's gonna be good, especially since next season is officially the last...so they have to wrap up loose ends from this season and work on next. I don't think Chrissy is gonna get it, I mean, why would Tony have let him survive after the disaster with Adriana? That was the perfect time to whack Chrissy.

And who's Phil? Philly Parisi? That's a possibility...but doubtful. My guesses as to who's gonna get whacked are as follows:

#1 - Johnny Sack.
#2 - Philly Parisi
#3 - Paulie Walnuts

[WoodenCoyote]

Kill Chrisy!
Lousy little rat, turning Adriana in so he won't lose his privileged lifestyle. Shoot him! He's just a junky again anyway and really p---ing me off.

[WildWill]

Have to disagree with you there...for some reason Chrissy's behavior lately strikes me as totally justified. Well...something like that...I don't know, he doesn't bother me, and Ade had to go...simply put she was an incredible liability, and she really started to annoy me over the years.

[WoodenCoyote]

I'd hardly call snorting heroin again after finally getting sober justified.

[Greg]

Janice needs whacking. i was watching series 2 on dvd, i cannot stand her

[New York Man]

Last week they began production of Season Six. Michael Imperiolie (Spelling may be wrong) claims that there could be another season after the sixth but I doubt it. What are your predictions for Season Six? I think Uncle Junior will die of old age in the season premier. Tony will be put on trial. Season Six should air in early 2006.

[Greg]

Ok so from what i know series 6 is 10 or 13 episodes starting in March then an extra 6 - 8 episodes will be shown around christmas time

[The Englishman]

Oooh, cant wait, although I probably won't get around to seeing the episodes when they first air. My dad loves the show so he will pick up the DVD on launch, then I can kill a whole Sunday with it.

Was the waiter scene that people are describing the scene where the waiter complains about the tip, then gets the brick on his head and gets shot? If so, it was hilarious.

[Tormented Magic]

It does not excite me that much anymore I like other things better I will be watchin but not alot..

[New York Man]

Season Six is just a few weeks away. Here are the lists and explanations as to who will be whacked or will pass away this season.


There may be some SPOILERS








Paulie Walnuts: Tony and Paulie have been feuding for quite sometime. Tony could be driven to the edge or Paulie could do a bad thing and get killed.

Vito: Tony will find out that he is a homosexual and that will be the end of him.

Uncle Junior: He will most likely die of old age.

Janice: *SPOILERS*






In the trailer I saw Bobby in rage as he is being pulled back by other people. Maybe Tony and Janice had another brawl but this time, Tony accidently kills her the way he killed Ralph.(though not an accident.) Bobby will be angry and attack Tony, possibly leading to his death.


That's all. What do you guys think?

[Greg]

I know for certain Vito is either killed or goes on the run and is never seen again.

Here are a few pics

http://www.josephrgannascoli.com/images/CAREER/sopranos/boontown/bilde.jpg

http://www.dailyrecord.com/news/galleries/101805sopranos/images/101805sopranos_86.jpg

Paulie.....i dont think he will be killed, but i think Johnny Sack will try and turn to him because of there past friendship, maybe offer Paulie a position of power in new york, but Phil Leotardo might have something to say about that becuae he is made boss of new york while Johnny Sack is inside.

Ginny Sack wife of mob boss Johnny will get a wiseguy brother who owns a Lenscrafter franchise. His name will be Anthony. He'll be modeled on Carlo, Connie's husband from "The Godfather."

Ray Curto should be found out as an informant and delt with.

[WildWill]

Yeah March 12 - gonna be a great night.

HOPEFULLY. I'm just hoping this season doesn't suck as bad as season 4 did.

[Greg]

i made a mistake. Anthony Infante (Johnny Sack's Brother in-law) is the acting boss of New York while Johnny is in prison. Him being in charge leads to a blood feud with Phil Leotardo that will be one of the major strylines in series 6, as will be a feud between Bobby Bacala and Paulie.

[New York Man]

Bobby and Paulie? A bit odd but it should be interesting. Yeah, I can't wait for March 12th. I thought Season four was pretty good. What do people have against it?

[Greg]

Pesonally i think series 3 is the worst (Meadow, Jackie Jr) it has an amazing episode though "Pine Barrens" in my top 5 Soprano episodes. PLus i dont like Vito that much and i think he had too much screen time for a small part when characters like Hesh are reduced to the sidelines. Also i got bored with the whole Tony and Ralph thing pretty quickly. What series 3 really lacked was a villan.

[WildWill]

When you're dealing with the Cosa Nostra - pretty much EVERYONE is a villain in one way or another. There's no real good or bad guys (though Dr. Melfi is pretty much the only "heroic" type in the entire piece), just a lot of shades of gray.

If Tony's your protagonist, then you don't have villains, you have antagonists, which yes, Season 3, if I'm remembering correctly, lacked. Then again, it's been a LONG time since I saw that season.

Besides which, Tony's antagonists tend to get bumped off, so a revolving door process seems to be what's in order. Which, unfortunately, doesn't make such riveting drama.

Case in point, season 4 and 5.

[Greg]

Dont read if you dont want to be spoiled





* Newcomer Gino Pontecorvo, having inherited $2 million from his aunt, is forbidden from leaving Tony’s crew and moving to Florida. It turns out Gino has been talking to the Feds. Gino is found hung before 6.1’s conclusion.
* Hesh and his son-in-law are jumped by one of Phil Leotardo’s thugs, which ultimately leads Tony to try to reach out to the imprisoned Johnny Sack through Sack’s optometrist brother-in-law.
* Finally, as Tony makes dinner for the weak-minded Uncle Junior, Junior mistakes Tony for an intruder and shoots him in the gut. Tony has to struggle desperately to get to a phone before he passes out and dies. The good news is Tony survives. The bad news is Tony is a little less active in 6.1.

Ok, things start off pretty normal … the opening montage lets us know that about two years have passed since last we saw everybody. Meadow’s doing a sexy dance in her underwear for her nerd dentist boyfriend. AJ is spending more time in his college class taking pictures of himself with his cellphone than paying attention to the professor. Tony and Carmella have been frequenting a $40 a piece sushi place lately and pretty much just living large and acting like a couple of teenagers. Johnny Sack is in jail but he’s asked Phil Leotardo to make nice with Tony and his crew for now despite the death of Phil’s brother last season. Bobby Bachalla and Janice now have a 15 month old daughter and Uncle Junior is getting crazier by the minute. Tony makes a brief visit to Dr. Melphi, buys Carmella a brand new SUV and life is good...
MASSIVE SPOILERS AHEAD. So Tony’s got a new soldier working for him named Gino. He’s got a ***** wife and a druggie son and he wants to move to Florida and get away from this life cause he inherited 2 million from his aunt. He’s also talking with the same feds that Adrienna was involved with and is looking for a way out. Only Tony ain’t having it despite Gino giving him a nice fat envelope full of inheritance money. “You swore an oath” and all that. Tony doesn’t even have the respect to tell the guy “no” himself. He has Silvio do it for him. “That Florida thing… Tony told me to tell you it ain’t gonna happen”. So this Gino guy hangs himself in his garage. I am assuming this storyline will go somewhere eventually. I mean, why bother introducing this guy only to get rid of him 40 minutes later… We’ll see…
Meanwhile, Uncle Junior’s “nurse” can’t be relied on and Bobby Bachalla is too busy hiding in his garage with his train sets to look in on Uncle Junior. Tony flips out and goes over to check on him himself. Uncle Junior’s sitting in the dark talking to the television set when Tony gets there. He sends Uncle June upstairs and tells him to wash up for dinner. Now you ready for this? While Tony’s cooking pasta Uncle Junior comes downstairs, thinks Tony is a burglar, shoots Tony in the stomach and runs up stairs to hide in his closet. Tony then spends the next 5 grueling minutes dragging his bloody body across the floor, trying to get to the phone to dial 911 before going unconscious. Yeah. It was pretty intense and completely out of the blue.
The second episode started immediately after the first. It goes back and forth between Tony in a coma (basically an extended dream sequence that has him living an alternate life as a business man) and everybody visiting Carmella in the hospital as she sits around the clock watching Tony. Meadow is pissed cause her nerd boyfriend won’t leave dental school to visit her family in the hospital. AJ is very uncomfortable seeing his father in this state (Tony has a massive, graphic hole in belly) and keeps avoiding the hospital. When he does finally show up he takes the opportunity to tell his mother he just failed out of college. Meadow and AJ share a nice moment talking about “the life” they’ve been born into and AJ sticks his head out the window and tells the gaggle of press people outside to “**** off”. At the funeral for Gino, the guy who hung himself in the premiere, Christopher, Paulie Wallnuts, Silvio and the rest of gang ask why Bobby Bachalla wasn’t looking in on Junior when Tony got shot. He claims “taking care of personal business” i.e. hiding from his new wife and child in the garage with his trains. For the most part that’s it. Tony is still in the coma at the end of the second ep, hooked up to tubes and machines and everyone else is kind of on standby waiting.

[WildWill]

Can you use the spoiler text instead of the color you're using?

It's color=#33333D



Also - this is to LT - I made this thread the Official Sopranos Thread 2 years ago, no reason to delete it.

[New York Man]

The last episode is this Sunday. I think Paulie kills everyone in their sleep and drives off with Phil. What are your predictions? This has been the best season so far.

[piccolo#1]

I'm still pissed that Bobby got whacked. It's Bobby! How can you kill Bobby?

As for the ending I'm hoping for something surprising and/or something that will get everyone talking. If I had to take a guest, I'd say Paulie betrays Tony in a NY/NJ shootout and kills him....and AJ will continue to be the biggest pansy in a mafia film role since Fredo Corleone.

[WildWill]

WORST - ENDING - EVER.

Seriously, not kidding.

[New York Man]

I agree Will. I'll go into details later to prevent someone being spoiled but I'm shocked and not in a good way.

[piccolo#1]

I stole this from another board. It sums up the ending well:

Don't stop believing
Posted by BY ALAN SEPINWALL/STAR-LEDGER ENTERTAINMENT STAFF June 10, 2007 10:39PM
Categories: Television
Who knew that the music of Journey could be used so ironically?

At the end of an otherwise satisfying "Sopranos" series finale, creator David Chase threw one final curveball at his audience. In his first episode as both writer and director since the series pilot, Chase sent Tony to a family dinner at Holsten's ice cream parlor in Bloomfield. Many previous seasons had ended on a Soprano family tableau -- A.J. even quoted something Tony said at Vesuvio back in the season one finale -- but this one was edited to seem far more ominous.

As the sounds of Steve Perry wailing on "Don't Stop Believing" filled the soundtrack, Tony kept eyeing the door and the other patrons as first Carmela, then A.J. arrived, while we spent an interminable amount of time watching Meadow double park. The camera kept focusing on a shady-looking character at the bar with more than a passing resemblance to the late Eugene Pontecorvo (down to the Member's Only jacket) who was studying Tony, but then his advance on Tony turned out to be a trip to the men's room. Meadow finally parked, dashed towards Holsten's, the camera cut back to Tony in close-up looking at something, Perry sang the words "Don't stop," and.¤.¤.

.¤.¤. nothing. No hint of whether Tony was looking at Meadow or something else entirely (perhaps the feds coming to arrest him after Carlo Gervasi apparently flipped), no music of any kind, just a fast cut to black and then the closing credits playing out in complete silence.

Whether you were waiting for one of the more popular predicted endings -- Tony in Witness Protection, Tony killed by Phil's guys, Furio and/or the Russian coming back for revenge, what have you -- or just for an ending, period, chances are that cut-to-black had you pulling a William Shatner in "Wrath of Khan," pointing your face at the heavens and bellowing, "CHAAAAASE!!!!!!"

And yet the finale, both the first 55 minutes of it and that sadistic last scene, fit perfectly with everything Chase has done on this show before.

Did we get the violent fireworks of last week? Absolutely not, as the only deaths of the hour were Phil Leotardo (gunned down at a gas station, then, in a gruesome indignity, his skull crushed post-mortem by his rolling car), and A.J.'s SUV (which caught fire while idling near a pile of leaves). But that's been the pattern of every season: the major action goes in the penultimate episode, while the finale is saved for quiet reflection and the odd whacking or two.

So Tony and Butchie DeConcini negotiated a peace treaty -- with the tacit understanding that Tony's guys could eliminate the out-of-control Phil -- a third of the way through the episode, and the bulk of the hour focused on Tony's lower-case family.

Janice faced life without Bacala (and a lifetime of torment for Bobby's kids), and once again invoked the name and memory of Livia Soprano, going about in pity for herself. Janice and Tony each visited Junior in the run-down state facility he was banished to when his cash ran out, but Corrado didn't recognize them.

Meadow planned her wedding to Patrick Parisi and badly wounded Tony (without realizing it) by telling him that she decided to quit med school and become a lawyer because of her relationship to him.

And in the episode's centerpiece -- and the origin of its title, "Made in America" -- A.J. continued his political awakening, only to have Tony and Carmela seduce him back into the same comfortably numb existence he used to have.

When some of the guests at Bacala's wake started discussing "American Idol" and "Dreamgirls," A.J. harangued them for focusing on entertainment fluff.

"The world. Don't you see it?" he complained, then later said, "It's like America. This is still where people come to make it. It's a beautiful idea. And then what do they get? Bling and come-ons for (stuff) they don't need and can't afford?" He talked of enlisting in the Army, though he wavered on whether it was to make the world a better place or just to get a job as Donald Trump's personal chopper pilot.

Yet by episode's end, A.J. had abandoned his newfound morality in favor of a shiny BMW, a job as the "development executive" for Little Carmine's movie company and his parents' promise of his own nightclub to follow.

From the start, Chase has used "The Sopranos" as an indictment of modern American values and how, time after time, we all sacrifice principle in favor of self-interest. Maybe A.J. had achieved enlightenment or maybe not. But Tony and Carmela couldn't have their little boy risking his own life in the military (they wanted him to get the discipline without the risk), so they anesthetized him back into the materialistic lifestyle they understand so well. This is what America makes today, Chase seemed to be saying: permissive, selfish parents and kids who mimic them.

Back to that final scene. Without it, we have a completely reasonable finale, one that provides closure on enough plot threads (the war with New York ends, Paulie is promoted to the captaincy of the Family's lucrative construction business, A.J. finds new direction, etc.) that the few left open (notably whether Carlo flipped and what that means, legally, for Tony) don't particularly sting. It's the "life goes on" ending I'd been speculating on for months.

But then, but then, but then .¤.¤. then Chase has to do what he loves to do more than any other man in show business: completely mess with his viewers' expectations (and their heads). I don't consider it a cliffhanger, something to set up a movie, as I doubt there will ever be a movie (and if there is, it'll be set in the past). He did it because he hates the conventions of TV series narrative in general, and putting a bow on things in particular.

That's why the Russian never came back, why the Melfi **** plotline was dismissed with a single word ("No"), why none of the FBI's previous rats ever amounted to anything, etc. He's convinced the audience doesn't need to be spoon-fed, to the point where he might go for a non-ending like this, something so jarring, so abrupt and so filled with misdirection (my guess is there was no danger at all, that Tony was simply watching Meadow's entrance) that it might come across like an insult to the audience who have stuck with the show through thick and thin.

Somehow, though, it feels like the perfect final note. Why wouldn't a show that's taken such pleasure in rewriting the rules of storytelling -- from making a sociopathic thug its hero on down -- go out in the least conventional way possible? It may be maddening, but it's what David Chase does.

Some other thoughts on "Made in America":

A theory proposed by a reader of the NJ.com Sopranos blog using the handle Lorbnash: the nine episodes of this season have represented the nine circles of Hell from Dante's "The Divine Comedy." The fourth circle, for instance, is for the greedy and the miserly; the fourth episode was Tony and Hesh's gambling showdown. The seventh circle is where the suicides go; A.J. took his dip in the family pool in episode seven. The ninth circle is for the traitors, and Butchie implicitly betrayed Phil. (For added fun, reader Joe Adler pointed out the similarities between the Eugene Delacroix painting "The Barque of Dante" and the Annie Leibovitz promotional image on the season five DVD set. Google them both if you want your mind blown.)

Lots of surrogates and callbacks throughout. Junior confuses Janice and Livia (and Janice and Nica). Tony uses A.J.'s shrink (a leggy, coolly professional woman in the Lorraine Bracco mode) as a Melfi stand-in. A.J. quotes Livia's "Always with the drama," and later Tony's line from the Season One finale. Paulie believes the cat from the safehouse has some supernatural connection to Christopher and also notes the bad history of the captains in charge of Jersey construction (though he left out Jimmy "The Rat" Altieri).

Another "Whatever happened to Gary Cooper?" moment: the tour bus drives through Little Italy while the guide explains how the thriving neighborhood is now essentially a single block of shops and cafes -- so tiny that, when Butchie gets too wrapped up in a phone call to Phil, he wanders out of Little Italy altogether.

Who knew Agent Harris had such a dark side? He's conducting an affair with his counterpart at the Brooklyn field office, and he's actively rooting for Tony to take out Phil.

Finally, thanks for all the questions, theories and compliments you've sent me over the years as I've written about this show. "The Sopranos" is over, but our coverage of it has a few days to go -- and my work as the Star-Ledger's TV critic has a lot longer than that. Look on Tuesday morning for David Chase's thoughts on the finale (as much as he'll share, anyway), and the "Sopranos" blog (blog.nj.com/alltv/) will feature at least two reader mailbags as the week moves along, as there's still much to discuss. This has been fun.

While I see and somewhat agree, I needed some kind of closure. ANY KIND. Maybe I'm just pissed because I struck out on this curveball. From a creator's standpoint, its brillant but its not what I wanted nor expected but that's just me being greedy.

[Exodia Demon]

I can't wait for the season 6.2 DVD to come out.

[StrongBadJinzo]

WORST ending to a show ever! The Sopranos just dethroned Seinfeld for the worst ending of a T.V. series. Though, I don't think it's the end. If you listen to the song playing in the background, "the movie goes on and on and on." They're probably going to make a movie to close it up. Also, there is a clue in the way they ended it: a door was open.

[piccolo#1]

I saw the episode again to see if it would help me get it better (mmm Piracy. And not of my own either. Yay for friends!). After seeing it a 2nd time I've come to the conclusion that the episode is not open ended at all. It is an example of how Tony will have to live the rest of his life paranoid that someone is always out to get him. It's the life he created and he must bear the burden. He went to the restaurant for a simple family meal yet every time the door opened, he looked up like his killer was coming through that door even if he knew it could be a loved one. Everyone else in the place was simply there for a meal, but because of Tony's paranoia, you just didn't know. It gave the viewer a sense of what its like to be Tony Soprano; paranoid and living in fear of what could happen next for the rest of his life. That being said, I still feel like it was big FU from Chase. He's always written things his way, even leaving tons of loose ends along the way, and this time he said "I don't give a damn. I'm ending it this way". That's fine but you know, you could have picked a better way. Playing Journey and making people wonder if their cable went out is not a good way to send off one of the greatest television series of all time.

[New York Man]

I agree with Pic's last post. Obviously Tony is still alive and the person he looked up was Meadow coming in.

[Lime Cat]

The Sopranos "offed" themselves with their horrendous ending :D

[Minato Namikaze]

WORST ending to a show ever! The Sopranos just dethroned Seinfeld for the worst ending of a T.V. series. Though, I don't think it's the end. If you listen to the song playing in the background, "the movie goes on and on and on." They're probably going to make a movie to close it up. Also, there is a clue in the way they ended it: a door was open.

I pretty much agree with you on everything you just said.

[piccolo#1]

http://www.bobharris.com/content/view/1406/1/


That's a good read for anybody still looking to figure out the final episode. He brings up some really interesting points. Knowing David Chase's style, I'd say this guy's theroy is more right than wrong.

[WildWill]

Yeah, it makes sense to me completely to be honest, always did. I still think it was a bit of a cop-out though.

[Stuntman Mike]

i liked it they made it so if they wanted to make amovie they still have all the characters in place.