Reborn Tengu

[Arcaos]

The game's most powerful floater. But was it broken enough to put at 2? Let's look at the easiest comparison, D Hero Mali:

-Get's effect when pitched in any way
-Can be used for exceed material and still get its effect
-Level 6 brings better monsters
-Has the deadly dark/warrior typing
-Has a draw card connected to it, two if you count Allure of Darkness
-Easily made consistent by Stratos, Dark Grepher, or Armageddon Knight

Yes, it's a good thing Mali is at 2. But why semi-limit Tengu?
It can't be used for XYZ (and get its effect), reusable tuners are toast, and its type/attribute has limited synergy in the meta.

PLUS: It makes the game healthier!
It is used in Skill Drain/anti meta decks and it's a tool for wind (read: not dark/light) decks to play with. To 3!

[Gaspar]

You are a masochist.
Reborn Tengu is fine at 2 because, as you said it, it is one of the most powerful floaters in the game and it is stupid at 3. "Oh you took it out? lol another one. That one too? GO TENGU #3. Now Pot of Avarice. Come at me bro"
And there is no WIND deck other than that awesome Harpie Malefic deck I saw a few months ago.

[99TourGuides]

You are a masochist.
Reborn Tengu is fine at 2 because, as you said it, it is one of the most powerful floaters in the game and it is stupid at 3. "Oh you took it out? lol another one. That one too? GO TENGU #3. Now Pot of Avarice. Come at me bro"
And there is no WIND deck other than that awesome Harpie Malefic deck I saw a few months ago.
Sigh.....those were the days

The Tengu's been neutered by his Konami masters. There ain't no going back from that, OP

[Arcaos]

You are a masochist.
Reborn Tengu is fine at 2 because, as you said it, it is one of the most powerful floaters in the game and it is stupid at 3. "Oh you took it out? lol another one. That one too? GO TENGU #3. Now Pot of Avarice. Come at me bro"
And there is no WIND deck other than that awesome Harpie Malefic deck I saw a few months ago.

1. If that was why it was limited, Peten the Dark Clown would have been hit too with exception to the Avarice part. Tengu was limited to hurt its synchro potential, which is minimal at best.

2. Mist Valley and Dragunity can take advantage of it. And given it can be affected by wind support cards, it will be there to help support the wind attribute when new and exciting things show up.

[Mr.Andy]

You are a masochist.
Reborn Tengu is fine at 2 because, as you said it, it is one of the most powerful floaters in the game and it is stupid at 3. "Oh you took it out? lol another one. That one too? GO TENGU #3. Now Pot of Avarice. Come at me bro"
And there is no WIND deck other than that awesome Harpie Malefic deck I saw a few months ago.

But nobody still played tengu and topped (maybe T.G.s) by the time it got crippled.

[ChaosNagato]

**** YEANO...

[Sniffygull]

You know once you said "the game's most powerful floater" you killed any argument you could of made. Tengu deserves to be at two for the same reason Mali deserves to be at two. Nothing changes this, and until the time when self replacing creatures don't do anything to help anyone they both need to be kept where they are.

And just to let you know, the reason Peten hasn't been his is because his is an optional effect. It misses timing, whereas Tengu always happens.
INB4:Troll

[AlpacaTail]

''The game's most powerful floater'', by saying that you automatically lost the debate as you suggest that it is better than Malicious, whose restriction you agree with.

[Saifullah]

Tengu at 3 is better than Malicious at 3, if you take them out of context of the support available for Malicious. Obviously with 3 D-Draw, 3 E-Tele, and whatever other support you run in the D-Draw engine Malicious becomes very formidable, but in terms of splashability Tengu is far superior.

[Arcaos]

And just to let you know, the reason Peten hasn't been his is because his is an optional effect. It misses timing, whereas Tengu always happens.
INB4:Troll

I know this but in the context of what he was saying, Peten is equally good for idiotic stalling.

And all the people pointing out me saying "game's most powerful floater" need to recognize what power means. Flying Fortress SKY FIRE is an extremely powerful boss monster, but nearly impossible to summon. Likewise, Tengu is a powerful floater but worthless in the XYZ era and doesn't have absurdly powerful support to make it limit worthy.

When it was at 3, Tengu was only used by synchro decks and beatdown decks and the former was neutered. I ask you all to show me how any remotely relevant deck will use Tengu in a way that deserves limitation.

[SuperKirbyFan]

And there is no WIND deck other than that awesome Harpie Malefic deck I saw a few months ago.

Mist Valley
Ninja Apex Avian
Dragunity
Gusto

[Sniffygull]

I know this but in the context of what he was saying, Peten is equally good for idiotic stalling.

And all the people pointing out me saying "game's most powerful floater" need to recognize what power means. Flying Fortress SKY FIRE is an extremely powerful boss monster, but nearly impossible to summon. Likewise, Tengu is a powerful floater but worthless in the XYZ era and doesn't have absurdly powerful support to make it limit worthy.

When it was at 3, Tengu was only used by synchro decks and beatdown decks and the former was neutered. I ask you all to show me how any remotely relevant deck will use Tengu in a way that deserves limitation.

Except Peten isn't as good. Tengu goes off as long as it's on the field. Peten can be Soul Taker'd, bounced back to the hand, or removed from play to miss his timing. That's just three of the many things that mess him up. In addition Peten removes himself, Tengu doesn't. Tengu just waits to get Pot of Avariced back to the deck for more abuse.

We all, for the most part, know what power means. Tengu doesn't need support to be limit worthy. He's a 1700 floater with no ways to make him miss time aside from Warning, Judgement and Divine Wrath. As for Tengu being useless as an XYZ material: so what? That doesn't preclude him going to three just because the one you use to make a Utopia won't fetch another. It'll hit the grave soon enough and then it's just one POA away from being live off the next Tengu.

All of this aside, you've still damned your own argument by saying Tengu is better then Malicious. If Mali deserves its limit so does Tengu.

[tHeObLiViNaToR]

This is the one card I hope becomes Unlimited as soon as possible.

I want to play it in my Scraps again. I missed the amazing synergy it brought to my deck. Oh the memories.

[zeebzob]

i laugh in the face of all the birdbrains who clamored for it to go to 0 or... *shudder*... 1 out of "principle," when clearly evidence shows that its practically worthless @ 2. :cool:

where u at now, all u "radical" "theorists" :cool:

[Saifullah]

It's worthless at 2 because PoA went to 1 and Synchros were obliterated. Otherwise it would still see play.

[Potshie]

I'd rather have it banned, and things like Spore and glow-up come back. Plant's were non existent in the ocg, and only were relevant here because of tengu and tour guide..

[Arcaos]

We all, for the most part, know what power means. Tengu doesn't need support to be limit worthy.

All of this aside, you've still damned your own argument by saying Tengu is better then Malicious. If Mali deserves its limit so does Tengu.

If you knew what power meant, you would recognize that between Snake Rain and Foolish Burial, Snake Rain is more powerful but Foolish Burial is limit worthy. This is why support is ALWAYS taken into consideration when banning/limiting.

And you still haven't shown me a deck that splashes and abuses this card. He isn't splashed into anything he's good in, decks like Mist Valley or Scraps have lots of support to back him up. So far, the only arguments I've seen are "You said he's better than Malicious, thus you lose" and "Killing a 1700 attack monster is hard."

[Potshie]

If you knew what power meant, you would recognize that between Snake Rain and Foolish Burial, Snake Rain is more powerful but Foolish Burial is limit worthy. This is why support is ALWAYS taken into consideration when banning/limiting.

And you still haven't shown me a deck that splashes and abuses this card. He isn't splashed into anything he's good in, decks like Mist Valley or Scraps have lots of support to back him up. So far, the only arguments I've seen are "You said he's better than Malicious, thus you lose" and "Killing a 1700 attack monster is hard."

He breaks the synchro mechanic.

[ChaosRP]

Did you not play at all in the previous 2 formats?

[Suibon]

'Reborn Tengu' and 'healthy' and 'game' only come up in the same sentence under this structure:

-- Reborn Tengu is not healthy for the game.

Unless of course anybody wants to establish new norms for the sake of establishing them, in the manner of 'it's already been done, I'm keeling over', to which my friendly advice is: You're already done. Keel now.

[Saifullah]

I remember when Tengu was basically a win condition unless you had Warning or Judgment face down.

It literally walked past BTH, Dimensional Prison, and any conventional removal methods such as Smashing and Dark Hole. You could just ram it into anything and make advantage.

[meta14]

Tengu was not healthy. You essentially lost no advantage with it.

[Saifullah]

It was a +2 on summon unless you showed Warning.

[boots88]

If you knew what power meant, you would recognize that between Snake Rain and Foolish Burial, Snake Rain is more powerful but Foolish Burial is limit worthy. This is why support is ALWAYS taken into consideration when banning/limiting.

And you still haven't shown me a deck that splashes and abuses this card. He isn't splashed into anything he's good in, decks like Mist Valley or Scraps have lots of support to back him up. So far, the only arguments I've seen are "You said he's better than Malicious, thus you lose" and "Killing a 1700 attack monster is hard."

You weren't playing this game last year were you?

[99TourGuides]

Lol who da*** thinks Malicious is better than Reborn Tengu??? Srsly who?

[! ! ! $]

They had created this card with the idea that it would be the next Malicious, however us as players took it a step further and found ways to make it better than malicious.

Reborn Tengu is a self replacer, Malicious is not.
Reborn Tengu made derp plant plays, that Malicious could not.
Reborn Tengu was plashable in more decks than Malicious was.

People even splashed it into Gadgets.

Oh, you don't cry if you draw double Tengu as you do with Malicious because at the least you can summon Tengu.

[Chaos3600]

Slight Problem: Reborn Tengu is NOT one of the most powerful floaters in the game.

Most efficient, probably, but not most powerful.

[! ! ! $]

Slight Problem: Reborn Tengu is NOT one of the most powerful floaters in the game.

Most efficient, probably, but not most powerful.

No, it's definitely not the most powerful. I was just doing a Malicious comparison.

[Chaos3600]

No, it's definitely not the most powerful. I was just doing a Malicious comparison.

I was refering to the OP.

Honestly, though, Destiny Hero - Malicious is better, simply because it has a far better type, level, and attribute in terms of Synchro Summoning, is searchable, and has access to good support.

Reborn Tengu is highly primitive in its floating ability, and its "splashablity" is drasticly overstated once one realizes that no deck that doesn't run 2 Reborn Tengu isn't going to run 3 Reborn Tengu.

[MikeApollo]

Tengu was just OP and busted not good for the game state at all QQ about it getting hit

[Chaos3600]

Tengu was just OP and busted not good for the game state at all QQ about it getting hit

Nobody is QQing about it getting hit.

Quit making stupid presumptions about other people, and focus on what people actually say.

[Gaspar]

You are telling Mikey to stop being a jerk. It is like telling me to stop snarking at anything. It is no use (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2If4Qv47uc).

[Fever]

Should be limited?

[Roosh]

>comparing a 1700 4 star that gets past every kind of removal in the game to a 6 star 800 monster that is absolutely worthless in-hand.

Makes sense, bruh.

[solomendonca]

Nah. Only way to stop Tengu would be to spin it through Raiza or something. Or Solemns.

[99TourGuides]

I was refering to the OP.

Honestly, though, Destiny Hero - Malicious is better, simply because it has a far better type, level, and attribute in terms of Synchro Summoning, is searchable, and has access to good support.

Reborn Tengu is highly primitive in its floating ability, and its "splashablity" is drasticly overstated once one realizes that no deck that doesn't run 2 Reborn Tengu isn't going to run 3 Reborn Tengu.
That's because for his entire career as a Monster Reborn Tengu had his own deck that ruled supreme until Xyz came out. He was CREATED to be THE BEST FLOATER in the game to sell the Synchro mechanic to the TCG. He was without a doubt the most powerful of his kind in his prime. He was more than "just a floater". His versatility breaks him even more.

Reborn Tengu at 3 is the TGU of the Synchro 5Ds era. True story.

Name one better floater than Reborn Tengu in his prime.

I want GUB to stay banned forever (this is just straight up not even trying with card design) but I would love to see the Tengu back at 3 some day. It won't happen for a looooooong time though

[MikeApollo]

>comparing a 1700 4 star that gets past every kind of removal in the game to a 6 star 800 monster that is absolutely worthless in-hand.

Makes sense, bruh.

Not if its removed while face down cost me one nats invite becuase of that the guy was at 1700 no cards in hand or on the field after summoning the Tengu face down i top decked into a MR and went into Trish removed from play the Face down Tengu and the HJ (Head Judge) for the event said it gets its effect :rolleyes: just started 3 weeks before and already got to be a HJ and 2 of the other Judges at the event had been Judges for over a year

[Chaos3600]

Name one better floater than Reborn Tengu in his prime.


Elemental Hero Stratos

Additional Comment:

Also Substitoad and, ironically enough, Lonefire Blossom

[Roosh]

Not if its removed while face down cost me one nats invite becuase of that the guy was at 1700 no cards in hand or on the field after summoning the Tengu face down i top decked into a MR and went into Trish removed from play the Face down Tengu and the HJ (Head Judge) for the event said it gets its effect :rolleyes: just started 3 weeks before and already got to be a HJ and 2 of the other Judges at the event had been Judges for over a year

Here let me activate Book of Moon and Dimensional P-

Never mind, how about Bottomles- wait, that doesn't work either

Trishu-no, that's banned.

Crevic-no that activates too late.

[Chaos3600]

Here let me activate Book of Moon and Dimensional P-


Come on bro, pros ALWAYS run Nobleman of Crossout.

[Potshie]

Elemental Hero Stratos

Additional Comment:

Also Substitoad and, ironically enough, Lonefire Blossom

Tengu is a much better floater in it's time. You could abuse it multiple times for.costless synchros in the same turn. With two avarice? Free synchros eveeryday, in every deck.

[Hydronix]

Honestly, while I don't think it would be a real issue at 3, unless they actually ban Heavy Storm, is perfect at 2.

It was kind of our only way to fight backrow without Heavy Storm, after all.

But that ain't the case anymore. Works fine at 2 overall. No more, no less. We still have a revivable tuner which allows atleast 2 Level 6 Synchros(or more with a Reborn, or possibly a Stardust and Red Dragon), etc. It's still good at 2. Broken? Nah. Just damn good.

[Kaikanphase]

Well... if Extra Pack is released in Japan this year then we could see Reborn Tengu to 3 again.

[99TourGuides]

Elemental Hero Stratos

Additional Comment:

Also Substitoad and, ironically enough, Lonefire Blossom
Okay I think we have different ideas about what a floater is...this is not gonna work.

Nobleman is actually dank tech for some decks right now.

Additional Comment:

Tengu is a much better floater in it's time. You could abuse it multiple times for.costless synchros in the same turn. With two avarice? Free synchros eveeryday, in every deck.
HAHAHAHAHAHA

You can't be serious. Stratos in his prime eats Tengu @4 alive, son.

My bad Chaos, I was not considering Stratos, TGU, Agent Earth and friends as "floaters". They are a different class of beast altogether to me.

[Potshie]

Okay I think we have different ideas about what a floater is...this is not gonna work.

Nobleman is actually dank tech for some decks right now.

Additional Comment:


HAHAHAHAHAHA

You can't be serious. Stratos in his prime eats Tengu @4 alive, son.

My bad Chaos, I was not considering Stratos, TGU, Agent Earth and friends as "floaters". They are a different class of beast altogether to me.

I assumed he meant Stratos vs Tengu in it's prime. If both we're at their prime then my bad.

[Chaos3600]

I assumed he meant Stratos vs Tengu in it's prime. If both we're at their prime then my bad.

Okay I think we have different ideas about what a floater is...this is not gonna work.

Nobleman is actually dank tech for some decks right now.

Additional Comment:


HAHAHAHAHAHA

You can't be serious. Stratos in his prime eats Tengu @4 alive, son.

My bad Chaos, I was not considering Stratos, TGU, Agent Earth and friends as "floaters". They are a different class of beast altogether to me.

I'm talking about both in thier prime. As in, both at 3.

Elemental Hero Stratos was, and would be today, infinitly better if both were at 3.

Yes, they are floaters; proactive, float-on-summon floaters.

The Nobleman bit was just a joke really to show how to kill a Reborn Tengu with Book of Moon.

[99TourGuides]

Nobleman of Crossout is especially pro for Game 2 for decks like 6 Sam, Chaos D, Rabbit, etc.

It counters Snowman Eater, Spirit Reaper, Ryko, Fossil Dyna and friends which could all be the very cards that get sided in against these decks.

Try siding one in these decks.

And hey man. Book+NoC is classic ygoz. Don't hate.

[Chaos3600]

Nobleman of Crossout is especially pro for Game 2 for decks like 6 Sam, Chaos D, Rabbit, etc.

It counters Snowman Eater, Spirit Reaper, Ryko, Fossil Dyna and friends which could all be the very cards that get sided in against these decks.

Try siding one in these decks.

And hey man. Book+NoC is classic ygoz. Don't hate.

Lol hard to believe that Nobleman of Crossout was limited at one point.

[99TourGuides]

Back when Flips mattered.....Magician of Faith and pals

[Chaos3600]

Back when Flips mattered.....Magician of Faith and pals

I thought it was because it appeared in Goat Control, and Konami wanted to sick that one creature from Resident Evil on that deck.

[Potshie]

I thought it was because it appeared in Goat Control, and Konami wanted to sick that one creature from Resident Evil on that deck.

I was just talking about resident evil. Who....What....Are you?

[99TourGuides]

I thought it was because it appeared in Goat Control, and Konami wanted to sick that one creature from Resident Evil on that deck.
Naw dude, naw.

[Suibon]

Lol hard to believe that Nobleman of Crossout was limited at one point.

Harder to believe it was semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited...

... someone get me Pilar Ternera.

[99TourGuides]

Harder to believe it was semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited, then unlimited, then semi-limited...

... someone get me Pilar Ternera.

How is this guy not deleted yet?????

[Otherworlder]

But the issue is, no one really runs Tengu in 2, so it needs to be in 3 if Konami wants to sell that card. Konami has yet to sell Tengu in OCG. The plant tuners are probably going to stay banned, so I actually see a chance for Tengu to come back to 3. It's never about the game, it's all about how to sell cards so.

[Suibon]

How is this guy not deleted yet?????

That post or my account?

People know me as an upstanding ex-player who loves this game enough to note and criticize the flaws I see in both former and current practice. Which is why I'm still here.