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K.Aurion
06-25-2012, 07:29 PM
Tiras attacks, Battle Fader drops and goes to the end of the Battle Phase. Can I destroy a card on the field?, since the attack wasn't technically negated, it was interrupted by a change of phase

faku24
06-25-2012, 07:31 PM
You cant activate Tiras because the Battle Phase ends before u get the chance to do so

Redshift
06-25-2012, 07:33 PM
You cant activate Tiras because the Battle Phase ends before u get the chance to do so
The answer is correct but not the reason.

Tiras has to battle (perform damage calculation) for it to be able to activate its effect.

But, if it were to battle a monster, and then another monster attacked directly and was stopped by "Battle Fader", Tiras would still have a chance to activate its effect. What Fader's effect actually does is just advance play to the End Step of the Battle Phase. That's when Tiras activates.

K.Aurion
06-25-2012, 07:37 PM
Sorry to be annoying, but Tiras only says, "attacked" and since it came out after Problem Solving card text, I assume that declaring an attack is the only thing needed to fulfill the trigger or Tiras. If it needed to battle, it would have said "if this card battled this turn"

Redshift
06-25-2012, 07:39 PM
Sorry to be annoying, but Tiras only says, "attacked" and since it came out after Problem Solving card text, I assume that declaring an attack is the only thing needed to fulfill the trigger or Tiras. If it needed to battle, it would have said "if this card battled this turn"
Well, Gladiator Beasts have that wording (and the ruling) too.

faku24
06-25-2012, 07:40 PM
What Fader's effect actually does is just advance play to the End Step of the Battle Phase

Ill keep that in mind

K.Aurion
06-25-2012, 07:42 PM
Well, ok thanks....

Bubbleh
06-25-2012, 07:54 PM
Sorry to be annoying, but Tiras only says, "attacked" and since it came out after Problem Solving card text, I assume that declaring an attack is the only thing needed to fulfill the trigger or Tiras. If it needed to battle, it would have said "if this card battled this turn"

Tiras never attacked though. You said "I am going to attack you directly with my Tiras, Keeper of Genesis" (not verbatim), and your opponent used Battle Fader's effect to special summon it, then end the Battle Phase.

Tiras did not attack.

Redshift
06-25-2012, 07:56 PM
Attacking and battling often change definitions depending on the effect you're dealing with.

The Chief
06-25-2012, 08:01 PM
Attacking and battling often change definitions depending on the effect you're dealing with.

Yeah that's what I hate the most. I mean you have a card such as "Ancient Forest" which doesn't need to see damage calculation actually happen. Will they refine their wording to distinguish the difference between something like "Gladiator Beast Bestiari" and "Ancient Forest"? I hope so lol.

SkullBuster
06-25-2012, 08:24 PM
Poor choice of words.

Gladiator Beasts have an OCG text saying "performed/conducted a battle", and was loosely translated to "attacked or was attacked". That's when problems began.

Tiras has that similar OCG text.

bioober
06-25-2012, 08:35 PM
Yeah that's what I hate the most. I mean you have a card such as "Ancient Forest" which doesn't need to see damage calculation actually happen. Will they refine their wording to distinguish the difference between something like "Gladiator Beast Bestiari" and "Ancient Forest"? I hope so lol.

Where did you find that Ancient Forest doesn't need the damage calculation to occur to destroy the monster?

The Chief
06-25-2012, 08:48 PM
Where did you find that Ancient Forest doesn't need the damage calculation to occur to destroy the monster?


■If "Sasuke Samurai" attacks a face-down monster and destroys it with its effect, it will still be destroyed at the end of the Battle Phase.[1]

Although I wonder if it would work if a monster declared an attack and then the monster being attacked was removed from the field. Will the monster that declared an attack be subject to "Ancient Forest"? Idk, it's beyond me. If no one can adduce relative to the question I'll just ask Konami..

Bubbleh
06-25-2012, 11:50 PM
■If "Sasuke Samurai" attacks a face-down monster and destroys it with its effect, it will still be destroyed at the end of the Battle Phase.[1]

Although I wonder if it would work if a monster declared an attack and then the monster being attacked was removed from the field. Will the monster that declared an attack be subject to "Ancient Forest"? Idk, it's beyond me. If no one can adduce relative to the question I'll just ask Konami..

"If "Sasuke Samurai" attacks a face-down monster..."

Sasuke Samurai still attacked, which is what the effect calls for. I'm sure Catastor would function the same way. Attacking is an entirely different action than damage calculation.

The Chief
06-26-2012, 12:09 AM
"If "Sasuke Samurai" attacks a face-down monster..."

Sasuke Samurai still attacked, which is what the effect calls for. I'm sure Catastor would function the same way. Attacking is an entirely different action than damage calculation.

...I don't get what you're saying. So you're saying that "Ally of Justice Catastor" didn't attack? I'm making him attack in my hypothetical. They both attack, how about that? They both activate during the damage step, that's the point I was making.

faku24
06-26-2012, 12:30 AM
There are rullings for things like this. Some time theres not all the info in the card text

K.Aurion
06-26-2012, 12:35 AM
I get it, Catastor didn't performed damage calculation, but still attacked.
Tiras didn't performed damage calculation, so it didn't attacked.

Makes total sense lol

Additional Comment:

Tiras never attacked though. You said "I am going to attack you directly with my Tiras, Keeper of Genesis" (not verbatim), and your opponent used Battle Fader's effect to special summon it, then end the Battle Phase.

Tiras did not attack.

So I can change Tiras to defense position?

The Chief
06-26-2012, 12:37 AM
I get it, Catastor didn't performed damage calculation, but still attacked.
Tiras didn't performed damage calculation, so it didn't attacked.

Makes total sense lol

Additional Comment:



So I can change Tiras to defense position?

No because you still declared an attack. Changing battle positions can only be done once per turn so long as the mosnter wasn't summoned in that same turn, didn't declare an attack, or it's position wasn't already manually changed.

K.Aurion
06-26-2012, 12:45 AM
No because you still declared an attack. Changing battle positions can only be done once per turn so long as the mosnter wasn't summoned in that same turn, didn't declare an attack, or it's position wasn't already manually changed.

I was being kind of sarcastic, I know basic game mechanics lol. I was assuming since he said Tiras did not attack, game mechanics allow to change the monster's battle position, since it wasn't even negated, it simply did not attacked.

In case you say it did attack, then the entire post is pretty pointless... I will stay with the Catastor logic.

In conlusion, BS ruling on Glads needs Tiras to go into damage step. Lame choice of words makes this confusing.

The Chief
06-26-2012, 12:47 AM
I was being kind of sarcastic, I know basic game mechanics lol. I was assuming since he said Tiras did not attack, game mechanics allow to change the monster's battle position, since it wasn't even negated, it simply did not attacked.

In case you say it did attack, then the entire post is pretty pointless... I will stay with the Catastor logic.

In conlusion, BS ruling on Glads needs Tiras to go into damage step. Lame choice of words makes this confusing.

The text "If this card attacked" has nothing to do with the capability of changing a monster's position. Although, yes you're right about the discrepancy with the "if this card battled thing". Oh well, move on they make rulings for it.