Sealed Goku!!!!

[kungfu_steve]

Its not exactly original but its been testing exceptionally well (the set 2 Kagero cards really do improve the deck a great deal........Kimnara alone makes Conroe the ultimate toolbox card). Anyway the idea is to get pluses from Goku early/mid game and then ride into Blockade as a finisher.

Grade 0s (17):
1x Lizard Soldier, Conroe
4x Lizard Soldier, Ganlu (Stand)
2x Lizard Runner, Nafud (Stand)
4x Embodiment of spear, Tahr (Critical)
2x Demonic Dragon Mage, Rakshasa (Critical)
4x Dragon Monk, Genjo (Heal)

Grade 1s (13):
2x Dragon monk, Gojo
4x Flame of Hope, Aermo
3x Wyvern Guard, Barri
4x Demonic Dragon Mage, Kimnara

Grade 2s (12):
4x Dragon Knight, Nehalem
4x Berserk Dragon
2x Dragon Knight, Berger
2x Highspeed, Brakki

Grade 3s (8):
4x Dragon Monk, Goku
2x Sealed Dragon, Blockade
2x Dragonic Overlord

Additional Comment:

Bump it up!!!!

[Cardfight God]

Nice deck because tejas is terrible.

[kungfu_steve]

Cheers :-) But I wouldn't say he is terrible exactly. If used correctly his ability to pick off the RG can really hurt your opponent, allowing you to attack even without a boost (since RG boosters are generally quite small) and to force more cards from your opponents hand in order to defend those smaller units.

Additional Comment:

Changes made:

-4 Bahr.
+2 Kinmara
+2 Gojo

[General Earth]

tejas is great in the right situation. If cardfight had a side deck Id have 4 tejas in mine.

[Wolftron]

I really like the way this deck looks... right now i am currently running a Blazing flare build but sealed goku looks like a solid build as well. In your opinion which of the two decks do you think runs better?

[Statistic]

Lmao no bahr? Why do you run gojo when you have aermos? Why are running only 2 dragonic overlord? Why are you running 6 stand triggers? Without a draw trigger your going to be so behind in hand advanatage when 99% of vanguard players use 4-6 draw triggers

Edit: and not being rude, just totally thrown off on some of the decisions

[Eien]

Lmao no bahr? Why do you run gojo when you have aermos? Why are running only 2 dragonic overlord? Why are you running 6 stand triggers? Without a draw trigger your going to be so behind in hand advanatage when 99% of vanguard players use 4-6 draw triggers

Edit: and not being rude, just totally thrown off on some of the decisions

If you spend 10 mins actually thinking instead of typing, you might actually understand why people make certain decisions like this. This layout makes sense to me for what he is aiming for. Though I would recommend 4 overlords, 2 gokus and 2 blockades since blockade only works as a Vanguard.

[Cerberus290]

If you spend 10 mins actually thinking instead of typing, you might actually understand why people make certain decisions like this. This layout makes sense to me for what he is aiming for. Though I would recommend 4 overlords, 2 gokus and 2 blockades since blockade only works as a Vanguard.

I still dont particularly understand why he'd take out Bahr though. And I'm guessing he's using Gojo and Aermo as the draw power to make up for lack of draw triggers?

[Eien]

I still dont particularly understand why he'd take out Bahr though. And I'm guessing he's using Gojo and Aermo as the draw power to make up for lack of draw triggers?

There is only really 1 card in this deck that would benefit from using Bahr over Gojo. Which isn't worth it IMO and has nothing really to do with the lack of draw triggers since Gojo and Aermo are for consistency not advantage. If I need to start giving teaching sessions on this game then I expect to get paid. :p

[kungfu_steve]

I really am starting to think that Eien is one of the few people on here who understands this game.....and my deck choices....I'm not paying you though :-)

This game is essentially just simple addition and basic probability. Lets say you are attacking a 11k vanguard (which is generally as big as they get in your turn) with a Nehalem. If you boost Nehalem with an Aermo you hit 16k, this means that your opponent must drop at least a 10k shield in order to stop you. If you instead boosted with a bahr you would hit 18k. This sounds good, but in fact still only forces a 10k shield out of your opponents hand. The big difference here is that Aermo (and Gojo) both have excellent effects whereas Bahr is just an 8k booster. This 16k target is known as a 'magic number', the next of which is 21k which will force at least a 10k and a 5k sheild from your opponent when attacking an 11k VG. You could also argue that 15k and 20k are adequate numbers to hit in the English game as we dont have that many good 11k VGs.


@Statistic: The Bahr thing is covered above, as for the draw trigger thing.....really?! I would never advice that many draws (except in a number of very specific decks), plus I have never seen anyone at locals running anything near that many. Think about it logically, while they may draw you a card this simply offsets the fact that they are a 5k shield unlike all the other triggers. Plus if drawn into (and not checked) they are a big disappointment.

Overlord is a great card but I really don't want to have to ride it as a VG as its essentially just an 11k beater there. Its effect really shouldn't be used in the VG slot. 4 Goku maximizes my chances to get him early and possibly plus more from his effect. I never really want to re-ride into Goku as that means I have fewer G3s for him to check into. Blockade is a finishing VG only, not a RG. My 12 G2's are meant for my RG spaces not my G3's so I prefer to only run 2 overlord. Also, I rarely have enough CB to use its effect due to the Berserks, Kinmaras and Conroe.

@Wolftron: Well I haven't had chance to run the Blazing Flare deck yet, though I really like its potential. It really depends on what you want to do. Blazing Flare is more like a mini Soul Savior imo. You drop him, use the effect to pop (as long as you have used a kinmara/gatling since if you use conroe you will only have 4 in soul when you superior ride) get the boost and have a very aggro turn. In fact I really like the idea of running Blazing Flare in a Goku Build as a finisher.

@General Earth: I completely agree.

[Eien]

I really am starting to think that Eien is one of the few people on here who understands this game.....and my deck choices....I'm not paying you though :-)

Everyone figures out sooner or later that I know what I'm talking about. Though you would only have to pay for the lessons like what Statistic needs. :p

[kungfu_steve]

I'm fairly certain I don't have enough money to pay for that many lessons :-P

I don't even want to begin to explain to him how stand triggers generate advantage, but using a more complex method than draws.

[Eien]

I'm fairly certain I don't have enough money to pay for that many lessons :-P

I don't even want to begin to explain to him how stand triggers generate advantage, but using a more complex method than draws.

There is no point in arguing or even discussing trigger layout cause its opinion based.

[kungfu_steve]

Yeah, that does seem to be the case. For instance, I doubt my hatred towards draw triggers will ever leave me. Well I make an exception for Gatling Claw Dragon since I want to play Blazing Flare at some point.

[Calamitas Deus]

Overlord is a great card but I really don't want to have to ride it as a VG as its essentially just an 11k beater there. Its effect really shouldn't be used in the VG slot. 4 Goku maximizes my chances to get him early and possibly plus more from his effect. I never really want to re-ride into Goku as that means I have fewer G3s for him to check into. Blockade is a finishing VG only, not a RG. My 12 G2's are meant for my RG spaces not my G3's so I prefer to only run 2 overlord. Also, I rarely have enough CB to use its effect due to the Berserks, Kinmaras and Conroe.

In a deck like this, I can understand the limited counter blasts, but "Dragonic Overlord" still gets a normal drive check with its skill activated as the vanguard. A potential three cards added to your hand, and thus that many more triggers, seems better than one attack with "Twin Drive!!" to me. Therefore, I don't think it's generally true that "Dragonic Overlord" should never be the vanguard.

Anyway, what's with the random "Highspeed, Brakki"? Decks should never run more than one clan, unless it's based on "Majesty Lord Blaster". Considering this deck is based on "Dragon Monk, Goku", I'd rather run the "Blazing Flare Dragon" set, or at least "Crested Dragon" until you had the cards for "Blazing Flare Dragon".

[kungfu_steve]

You're going to have to explain to me why you shouldnt ever run multiple clans? Too many people looking at the game like that will make it go very stale, very fast. Brakki is a great RG finisher in the end game. His effect to boost himself means that he will consistently hit 20k with an Aermo and 25k with an Aermo and a trigger. I had considered running 2 more normal 10k G2's but the ability to hit 14k on his own is just too powerful to ignore. There really are no drawbacks for running him at two.

The overlord thing is purely an opinion and should be taken as such. If you use his effect as a VG a smart player will sink cards into stopping you and depriving you of that second drive, which taken another way is a card from your hand. In that rare situation in which your opponent has no cards in hand then I totally agree that you should go for it, but otherwise its a far safer play imo to use it in the RG.

Crested Dragon?! Why would I run that over brakki, it doesn't do anything? G2s are really what you should aim to have in the front-RG as they can intercept (but there are a few notable exceptions). G3s are generally just fodder for Aermo and Barri in this deck once they are in hand.

[Cardfight God]

In a deck like this, I can understand the limited counter blasts, but "Dragonic Overlord" still gets a normal drive check with its skill activated as the vanguard. A potential three cards added to your hand, and thus that many more triggers, seems better than one attack with "Twin Drive!!" to me. Therefore, I don't think it's generally true that "Dragonic Overlord" should never be the vanguard.

Anyway, what's with the random "Highspeed, Brakki"? Decks should never run more than one clan, unless it's based on "Majesty Lord Blaster". Considering this deck is based on "Dragon Monk, Goku", I'd rather run the "Blazing Flare Dragon" set, or at least "Crested Dragon" until you had the cards for "Blazing Flare Dragon".

ROFL crested dragon. Yugioh bks comin to vanguard rofl.

[Statistic]

Everyone figures out sooner or later that I know what I'm talking about. Though you would only have to pay for the lessons like what Statistic needs. :p

Youve mever even seen me play, yet, harass my knowledge of the game. Your pathetic.

[Cerberus290]

Eien does know what he's talking about though.

[Amuki]

You dont start things with Eien... it doesnt look good to people viewing the forum. and you possibly wont win.
A handful of people on this board know what they are talking about, there hasnt been enough time for newer people to prove how well they know the game.

Eien and I and a few others have been around since the game started, and many of you are just jumping in this year when it got its english release. Im sure he knows what hes talking about. 1 year and 3 months beats a month of experience

[Statistic]

You cant determine skill by how long you have played, it helps imptovement but it isnt what defines a good player. I understand vanguard, its a simple game. Also i will mess with Ein, he isnt some superior member over the rest of us. Hes a basement dweller with a bad attitude. He needs to stop acting like hes the best of the best when even new players can do well and trust me, ive seen this time and time again

[Amuki]

You cant determine skill by how long you have played, it helps imptovement but it isnt what defines a good player. I understand vanguard, its a simple game. Also i will mess with Ein, he isnt some superior member over the rest of us. Hes a basement dweller with a bad attitude. He needs to stop acting like hes the best of the best when even new players can do well and trust me, ive seen this time and time again

Well, if you want to look at it that way then fine.
you have been fairly warned though about arguing with eien-tewi

[kungfu_steve]

@Statistic: It's true that we haven't seen you play, but all that means is that we have to judge your understanding of the game based on what you write on here. The problem is that your comments about certain cards; such as the use of Bahr, appear to suggest that you know less about the game than you may in fact do. I commonly see people making similar comments with regards to yugioh without thinking them through and in all honesty it can come across as a bit arrogant.

Also my comments towards you are meant to be light-hearted banter and nothing more, so please don't get the wrong idea.

Eien may be a saint or he may be a sinner but his comments appear to be well thought out and based on actual experience, so I am compelled to respect his opinion even if I don't always agree with it.

[Statistic]

No hard feelings, i just think a 8k boost is too good, but i very well could beplaying kagero wrong. I focus more on RPs then anything and every 1k helps. The only reason i can think of for 2 aermo/2 gojo is so you have 2 different methods of discarding cards rather then relying on aermo boosting your front v/r and landing a hit. Also, wouldnt it be more beneficial to go 4 overlords, 3 goku, and 2 blockade? 9 g3s may seem high but between 2 gojo/2 aermo, 3 barri, and gokus effect itd probably be worth it.

[kungfu_steve]

Coolio. The bahr thing relates to what I said earlier. The 8k changes nothing. 6-7K is enough to hit those magic numbers plus you get some good effects from them. All depends on how big your attackers are or if you run Aleph.

I never really want to use Overlord though. Its a great card but as a VG its just a beater, and I rarely have enough CB to use the effect in RG. But when I do have enough I find that I always hit it anyway due to all the cycling effects I have. Also the 4 Goku are to help with the consistency of the deck. I want Goku as my VG as early as possible so running 4 is about the best thing I can do to help with that. Why do you think 4 Overlord would be good (legitimate question, not sarcasm)?

Must admit that I am considering 9 G3's. Ive tried 10 and Ive tried 8 and neither seemed to give me what I wanted. The dead draws from 10 really hurt against a good opponent (the ones that go after my Aermos).

[DrkWizard]

I typically run from seven to nine G3's. I have not had any problems drawing into them in any deck I've run so far. Granted, it's RP that runs seven two of which are searched by 4x Pongal. Any time I've tried ten G3's they clog hard...

[kungfu_steve]

But unlike most decks this one gains almost all its pluses from its G3s. Riding into a G3 isnt the reason I have tested running 10, its because running more could potentially gain me additional advantage. After more thought however I have decided to stick with 8 until Dual Axe is released since there really aren't any G3s out atm that are worth running in addition to what I have.

[Eien]

Youve mever even seen me play, yet, harass my knowledge of the game. Your pathetic.

I don't "harass" your knowledge of the game. I merely point out that facts that you believe in or know are wrong or misdirected because you are obviously a new player to this game compared to someone like me who has been around since the game came out in Japan and was the one who started the CFV section here on Pojo. :p

I find it funny that you believe in any form that you know what you're talking about and then argue the fact that you're not a new player even though you make new player mistakes in most of your comments. I don't have to see you play to know that your knowledge of deck mechanics and numbers with this game are off. Even reading your posts later in this thread point out the fact that you don't know key details that put veteran players above new ones.

Feel free to post vids or PM me on AIM for me to watch you play on BYOND cause I've taught quite a few people how to play the game properly, you'd just be another student in my book. :p

[Calamitas Deus]

To explain my reasoning earlier, "Crested Dragon" is a grade 3 «Kagero» unit, which adds more uses to the skill of "Dragon Monk, Goku", which is the whole point of the deck. It's true "Crested Dragon" itself has no skills, but would you rather run "Demonic Dragon Berserker, Yaksha"? We don't have a lot of options yet. If we did, I'd probably suggest something more like "Dragonic Waterfowl" or "Dual Axe Dragon".

Regarding multiple clans in one deck, I've already been over this with several other people, and none of them listened. The point is multiple clans makes the deck more inconsistent than a single-clan deck, due to how trigger effects work, and adding cards to the deck decreases your chances of hitting a trigger unit at the right time. The other guy ran an «Oracle Think Tank» deck, which needed the soul more than you do, not to mention field presence.

[kungfu_steve]

But I'm very happy with the 8 G3's I already have. Why would I ever run Crested when I could run Overlord and Blockade (which I do)? Plus we also have Blazing flare, who may work better in his own deck but is still a hell of a lot better than Crested. The point of the deck is to maximize Goku's effectiveness while not hindering the flow of the deck. It must still work as a deck even without Goku. There have been a few games in which I haven't seen him all game and have still won, simply because all my other cards have great effects and function on their own. In the end Goku's effect is luck based, it simply boosts your trigger count in essence. Adding in bad cards (i.e. Crested) that provide utility only when used as part of a luck-based skill is a bad idea in any game.

2 Brakki wont (and hasn't through extensive play testing) ever hurt the consistency of the deck. I require a single Kagero unit to exist anywhere on my field in order for my triggers to function......if I don't have that then I have most definatley already lost. Brakki is a finished, if you think his effect is in there to be spammed every time I draw him then you are missing the point. During the end game he can hit 20k with a 6k booster without triggers, which is essentially a magic number in the current format. If he does go back in it simply means im more likely to grab a G2 in the late game, which is when you need them. Goku essentially increases my trigger count by 7 so I dont think having an extra card go back into the deck is really going to cancel that out. Also most good players understand his potential power and target him early, meaning he never goes back in anyway and takes the heat away from my VG.

Mixed deck (which this really isnt) not only add a lot more variety to the game but also test your ability as a deck builder, which is primarily where the skill lies with Vanguard. Anyone can add up some numbers and learn to play the right cards at the right time, the creative element is by far the most important aspect once you have played for a while. How about instead of telling people what they cant and shouldn't do (i.e. play mixed decks) you put your mind to work and actually try to innovate. Mixing the correct cards together can create some devastating combinations. With a little thought you can pull off some great plays and maintain a competitive level of consistency.

I wrote another essay.......sorry guys! And this still isn't everything I wanted to say.

[Cardfight God]

To explain my reasoning earlier, "Crested Dragon" is a grade 3 «Kagero» unit, which adds more uses to the skill of "Dragon Monk, Goku", which is the whole point of the deck. It's true "Crested Dragon" itself has no skills, but would you rather run "Demonic Dragon Berserker, Yaksha"? We don't have a lot of options yet. If we did, I'd probably suggest something more like "Dragonic Waterfowl" or "Dual Axe Dragon".

Regarding multiple clans in one deck, I've already been over this with several other people, and none of them listened. The point is multiple clans makes the deck more inconsistent than a single-clan deck, due to how trigger effects work, and adding cards to the deck decreases your chances of hitting a trigger unit at the right time. The other guy ran an «Oracle Think Tank» deck, which needed the soul more than you do, not to mention field presence.

Wow u r terrible at this game crested dragon. Theres blazing flare dragon, dragonic overlord, goku, seal dragon blockade but u wanna run a vanilla 10k. plz stop trolling the forums.

[Sand-Trap]

Lmao no bahr? Why do you run gojo when you have aermos? Why are running only 2 dragonic overlord? Why are you running 6 stand triggers? Without a draw trigger your going to be so behind in hand advanatage when 99% of vanguard players use 4-6 draw triggers

Edit: and not being rude, just totally thrown off on some of the decisions

Wow. I knew some of your posts on DGZ was kinda off, but this is just plain wrong, esp the Bahr vs Gojo thing. Even after it was explained to you, you still don't understand? Why?

[TheKingOfCards]

Wow u r terrible at this game crested dragon. Theres blazing flare dragon, dragonic overlord, goku, seal dragon blockade but u wanna run a vanilla 10k. plz stop trolling the forums.
*facepalm* all the cards you listed are already in this deck besides "blazing flare dragon" Calamitas Deus was explaining why he thought it was an option. Please read the actual deck and the previous posts before trying to troll someone.

[Cardfight God]

*facepalm* all the cards you listed are already in this deck besides "blazing flare dragon" Calamitas Deus was explaining why he thought it was an option. Please read the actual deck and the previous posts before trying to troll someone.

Crested dragon should never be an option bk.

[SILVER XD]

Youve mever even seen me play, yet, harass my knowledge of the game. Your pathetic.

Whenever Eien posts advice I take it as a gift from the gods. I've been watching the anime since the first episode released and studying the cardgame like a maniac, Eien's posts have been a great help.
Do not question the Master of Lancaster!:D

[TehNACHO]

I personally would've liked one more Overlord over Berserk as it is rare to have enough damage to fulfill it AND Conroe during the initial G2 ride, and 3 basically means you will most likely get it when it is most optimal.

Past that, the deck looks great and very well thought out. It's really sad though, a lot of things mentioned here I am tempted to copy and paste to explain to other members my opinion on Bahr and other things you've talked about.

@Calamitas: Oh hai. Calamitas, if you don't think we were listening to you over Sephiroth's deck, it's because your argument was borderline irrelevant.

Like here, basically.

[kungfu_steve]

Yeah, I have considered more Overlords but I tend to use all my free CB on the Kinmaras and Berserks, which has been working well. Once Duel Axe is out the deck list will change a little, in fact I may end up ditching overlords all together.

The problem I tend to find with Pojo is that people seem to post without having actually examined the game. They read a couple of posts and play a couple of games, but don't take any time to think about how the game works.

[<Candle_Jack>]

What do you discard for Gojo/Aermo and when do you make the decision to use their effects?

[kungfu_steve]

Good question. My main source of discard fodder is my G3's. Once I have a Goku as my VG the others are completely useless and make great cards for discard, since G3's have no shield. I like to hang onto either one overlord or one blockade depending on the game-state at the time. For instance if its late game and im low on CB it will probably be the blockade, though this also depends on my opponents field.

My next discard choice is the additional Aermos and Gojos, since they rarely need to be replayed. Though this depends on what my opponent is playing. In a mirror match, for example, I would generally try and hang onto some extra copies since it's likely that some will get retired. In my opinion you should always try and have Aermo behind your VG. It is the most likely unit to land a hit and you can instantly discard a card you dont need, such as a G3, which you checked into. Gojo tends to be more of a set-up card so in general I will be discarding any extra cards I have with him in order to go fish out my Gokus.

Remember though that you should only use their effects when you have dead cards in hand, for example G3's which provide no shield or extra boosters, or/and when you are searching for something early game (mainly regarding Gojo). Just because you can discard doesn't mean you should, it depends on the situation. Also take into account the rest of your hand when you think about discarding. You may have a G3, but if you also have a Null-guard in hand then it may be best to keep it for use with that. Aermo and Gojo are still 6-7k boosters regardless, having the cycling effects there is just an added bonus really.

[NinjaSonic]

Honestly there is no reason for stand triggers, at best a stand trigger is going to stand one of your two Dragonic Overlord most of the time you'll be standing Gojo, at which point you'll discard a card to draw a card if you have a draw trigger you'll just be drawing a card. Also Stand triggers are dead on your opponents turn. I'd cut both Gojo he is a sub par card. Draw triggers provide more card advantage than him. Then cut one Aermo and one Kimnara, there is a reason every deck runs four Grade 1 8000 beatsticks. You only need three Aermo and Kimnara, because you can search for the other two. Grade 2's you don't have a whole lot of options. If you're running two Highspeed, Brakki instead of four Dragon Knight, Berger that's even more reason to run Gatling Claw Dragon. Not a whole lot of variation for Grade 3's. I ran this my list would look like.

Grade 0s (17):
1x Lizard Soldier, Conroe
4x Gatling Claw Dragon (Draw)
4x Embodiment of spear, Tahr (Critical)
4x Demonic Dragon Mage, Rakshasa (Critical)
4x Dragon Monk, Genjo (Heal)

Grade 1s (13):
4x Embodiment of Armor, Bahr
3x Flame of Hope, Aermo
3x Wyvern Guard, Barri
3x Demonic Dragon Mage, Kimnara

Grade 2s (12):
4x Dragon Knight, Nehalem
4x Berserk Dragon
2x Dragon Knight, Berger
2x Highspeed, Brakki

Grade 3s (8):
4x Dragon Monk, Goku
2x Sealed Dragon, Blockade
2x Dragonic Overlord

I'm semi new so Brakki can't be boosted by anybody can he? Seriously I liked Gojo when I started, then I realized how bad he is. He has no card advantage and takes up a Rear Guard spot which means somebody isn't being boosted or you're attacking with one less person. Stand triggers are a waste no clan can really abuse them except with Dragonic Overlord and that won't happen as often as you'd like. The reason draw triggers are better is because no matter when you reveal it you get to draw which is card advantage and a potential sheild. If you reveal Stand as a damage then you accomplished nothing, where if it's a draw you get a card. If you reveal a stand as a trigger check and have a Gojo you can then discard a card to draw one, if it's a draw trigger you draw the exact same card you would have with Gojo and don't have to discard.

There is only really 1 card in this deck that would benefit from using Bahr over Gojo. Which isn't worth it IMO and has nothing really to do with the lack of draw triggers since Gojo and Aermo are for consistency not advantage. If I need to start giving teaching sessions on this game then I expect to get paid. :p
I'd recommend you take lessons instead of give them. There is no reason I can think of you'd ever want 4 Dragonic Overlord. Also every card benefits from Bahr over Gojo. First it's 1000 more damage, second if you're using Gojo's ability that card is not getting boosted at all. Gojo also accomplishes nothing a draw trigger doesn't do better, but I've covered that above.

I've reread this thread, and I still don't understand how anybody can say Stand triggers are better than Draw triggers. The ONLY time they would be better is if you have ONE of TWO Dragonic Overlord swing with your Vanguard hit a Stand trigger and get one bonus swing with Dragonic Overlord. Also a Draw trigger is always better than a Stand trigger on your opponent's turn. If you hit a Stand trigger on your opponent's turn as damage you Stand a card and can do nothing, if you hit a Draw trigger you get a card. On your turn if you swing with your Vanguard, you've either used Gojo to boost or used his effect which means you're swinging for 1100 at the most. If you reveal a Stand trigger you can either attack again with someone or use Gojo's effect in which case you would discard a card and draw a card (that's +1 from the Stand trigger, -1 from discarding, +1 from drawing = +1 card) also you have to discard before drawing which allows you to get an even worse card. Now replace that with a draw assuming you've used Gojo to boost you'll hit your draw trigger which now puts you at 2200-2300. You get you draw trigger (+1 and you draw the same card you'd draw by using Gojo's ability without discarding +1 = +2). More cards in hand means more possible shields and more possible plays.

[kungfu_steve]

Prepare for another essay guys........

Ok, I'm going to assume you aren't trolling simply because of the amount of text you wrote. While you have justified your opinions I would argue that your logic is a little flawed and somewhat narrow. I will address the main points in order.

1) Bahr-I covered this earlier which makes me think you haven't bothered to read the rest of the thread before posting. What does Bahr add to a deck which hits for 11k maximum (with 10k being the standard unboosted power value). The 8k doesn't help me hit any higher 'magic numbers' so there is no point in running a card with no effect. It offers no advantage in terms of boost or effect so why does everyone run it you ask? The answer is that they are sheep (or run an Aleph deck, lol!). They read a couple of deck lists, see everyone else including it and think its the way to go. Add up a few power values and you will soon see that in this deck 8k is no better than 6k. (On a somewhat related note- I run 4 Kinmara and 4 Aermo because they are extremely important to the strategy of the deck. Having 4 of each increases my chances of drawing into them, saves my Conroe search, means I have replacements should I need them and makes it unlikely I would lose them all to damage checks).

2) Gojo-First of all, what the hell are you on about with standing gojo with a stand trigger? You can't use his effect post battle phase so why would that matter?! If you play this game as must as I do, then you will come to realize that in most games you will have times when you have only 1 front-row RG, meaning that Gojo can use his effect in the alternate back-row space where there is nothing to boost. Next is the fact that his effect isn't used to gain advantage....in fact it will never gain you advantage, it will only allow you to dig for the cards that you need. Don't have a G3, then use Gojo. He doesn't need to hit in order to use his effect (like Aermo) so you don't have to worry that your opponent will stop you. Also as I said in an earlier post, having him in your deck is much like carrying a condom. Its better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. Since Bahr does absolutely nothing for this deck, why not run a card with a potentially useful effect?!

3)Stand triggers.....hell triggers in general-As a few of my peers have already mentioned, discussing triggers isn't normally worth much since they are one of the most subjective elements of the deck building process; however I feel that I need to explain to you the obvious bad points regarding draw triggers. Have you ever wondered why draw triggers only have 5k shields? It's to balance out the fact that they draw you a card, which in most cases will be another 5k shield....see where this is going?! They do indeed gain you advantage in the most simple of senses but this is generally counteracted by the fact that they must be discarded along with another card to hit that 10k shield value that all the others triggers possess naturally. A good bit of balancing by the game designers there. The problem is that this 'balancing' also means that if you draw into a draw trigger from anything other than a check, they are truly bad cards and tend to be quickly discarded for effects. So now you may reply with "but Gatling Dragon has a cool effect" so if I draw into him it's Ok! Well, I hate to break this to you, but his effect will rarely see play against a good player. Yes you can hit the Barcgal....but if you think about it properly that will rarely happen and only with some questionable choices on your part. I admit that Stand triggers are less effective in your opponents turn, but they still provide that sometimes crucial 5k protective boost. If you swap this around and hit a stand in your turn, they will likely provide you with the same level of advantage as a draw or potentially more for that matter. That extra attack forces another card from your opponents hand, stripping them of resources for free. It doesn't have to be an Overlord you stand, it can be any G2. Lets say it's a 10k unit that you stand and give the 5k to it, this will force a 10k shield (or 2x 5k) on a 10k VG, which is a great play. Hell, a well timed stand will win you the game, and also makes your opponent have to think wisely about using their null-guards.

4)Brakki-Yes, he can be boosted by cards from any other clan. I will assume you understand how triggers work regarding units from different clans, if not its all in the rule book.

5)I'm not trying to sound/act like a d*ck, but you really need to start using your head and READING THE WHOLE THREAD! Most of your 'alterations' have already been addressed here. You essentially just ignored all of my previous posts; which I actually spent time thinking through and writing up, to simply bring up the same tired stuff.

(I sincerely apologize to the grammar nerds amongst you for my bad spelling, punctuation and syntax.....it's 2:51am and I'm pretty damn sleepy).

[TehNACHO]

When I saw d*ck, immediately my first thought was duck.

And don't bash Eien. Noobies should learn to NEVER bash Eien.

[ImDoneItsOver]

This game is more of a preference deck builder, Unlike YGO many options still can be played and used to win any given Game. With the LUCK that is involved with this game no one build will always beat another and to me that is the beauty of this game

[Cardfight God]

If u wanna win more often try running royal paladins.

[Eien]

I'd recommend you take lessons instead of give them. There is no reason I can think of you'd ever want 4 Dragonic Overlord. Also every card benefits from Bahr over Gojo. First it's 1000 more damage, second if you're using Gojo's ability that card is not getting boosted at all. Gojo also accomplishes nothing a draw trigger doesn't do better, but I've covered that above.

I've reread this thread, and I still don't understand how anybody can say Stand triggers are better than Draw triggers. The ONLY time they would be better is if you have ONE of TWO Dragonic Overlord swing with your Vanguard hit a Stand trigger and get one bonus swing with Dragonic Overlord. Also a Draw trigger is always better than a Stand trigger on your opponent's turn. If you hit a Stand trigger on your opponent's turn as damage you Stand a card and can do nothing, if you hit a Draw trigger you get a card. On your turn if you swing with your Vanguard, you've either used Gojo to boost or used his effect which means you're swinging for 1100 at the most. If you reveal a Stand trigger you can either attack again with someone or use Gojo's effect in which case you would discard a card and draw a card (that's +1 from the Stand trigger, -1 from discarding, +1 from drawing = +1 card) also you have to discard before drawing which allows you to get an even worse card. Now replace that with a draw assuming you've used Gojo to boost you'll hit your draw trigger which now puts you at 2200-2300. You get you draw trigger (+1 and you draw the same card you'd draw by using Gojo's ability without discarding +1 = +2). More cards in hand means more possible shields and more possible plays.

A recommendation from someone who barely understands the simple facts of the game like you do isn't worth much. The first few sentences was enough to prove how little you know of this game. Maybe if you actually have any idea what you were talking about then maybe your wall of text might be worth reading. Newbies should know their place before they start acting like they know more then someone who has been playing this game since it first came out.

[GKN00B_06]

While I do disagree with most of ninja said, I do agree that bahr is very important, but that has been explained in much detail by people like elliott, and the term for what Gojo does is not card advantage but card quality.

[Eien]

While I do disagree with most of ninja said, I do agree that bahr is very important, but that has been explained in much detail by people like elliott, and the term for what Gojo does is not card advantage but card quality.

Bahr is only important if you runs cards that need him. It's all about the numbers, if you don't need that extra 1k then he isn't better to have over Gojo.

[<Candle_Jack>]

there is a reason every deck runs four Grade 1 8000 beatsticks.

Lol, you must be new here.

As previously mentioned, G1 8K are not a "staple" as most people think. It's all about reaching "Magic Numbers". If you have out a 10K Vanguard, playing an 8K RG over a 7K or 6K RG makes absolutely NO difference, even if you hit a trigger.

Here's a bit of math to further explain what I mean;

10K + 8K boost = 18K - Strong enough to force a 10K Guard, hits 15K/16K Magic Numbers
10K + 7K boost (Gojo, for example) = 17K - Also strong enough to force out a 10K Guard, also hits 15K/16K Magic Numbers
10K + 6K boost (Aermo for example) = 16K - Also, also strong enough to force out a 10K Guard, also also hits 15K/16K Magic Numbers
9K + 8K boost = 17K - See above
9K + 7K boost = 16K - See above
9K + 6K boost = 15K - The only time it won't force a 10K Guard is if you're attacking an 11K VG/RG, ONLY time. Otherwise, see above.

So, as you can see..running the 8K over 7K/6K makes quite literally, NO difference. With Triggers, each of the above hits the next level of Magic Numbers.

Unless you're playing a deck focused on Superior Riding Embodiment of Victory, Aleph, There's no reason to play any G1 8K in this deck.

[TheKingOfCards]

Lol, you must be new here.

As previously mentioned, G1 8K are not a "staple" as most people think. It's all about reaching "Magic Numbers". If you have out a 10K Vanguard, playing an 8K RG over a 7K or 6K RG makes absolutely NO difference, even if you hit a trigger.

Here's a bit of math to further explain what I mean;

10K + 8K boost = 18K - Strong enough to force a 10K Guard, hits 15K/16K Magic Numbers
10K + 7K boost (Gojo, for example) = 17K - Also strong enough to force out a 10K Guard, also hits 15K/16K Magic Numbers
10K + 6K boost (Aermo for example) = 16K - Also, also strong enough to force out a 10K Guard, also also hits 15K/16K Magic Numbers
9K + 8K boost = 17K - See above
9K + 7K boost = 16K - See above
9K + 6K boost = 15K - The only time it won't force a 10K Guard is if you're attacking an 11K VG/RG, ONLY time. Otherwise, see above.

So, as you can see..running the 8K over 7K/6K makes quite literally, NO difference. With Triggers, each of the above hits the next level of Magic Numbers.

Unless you're playing a deck focused on Superior Riding Embodiment of Victory, Aleph, There's no reason to play any G1 8K in this deck.
If only their was a like comment button on pojo.

[NinjaSonic]

@Kung-fu Steve I was just saying 3 Aermo/Kimnara is a preferance I can understand 4 if they're that important. I still stand by Gojo being bad. The fact that you have to rest him and discard is too much disadvantage. Aermo is excellent you're boosting and getting his effect. Gojo discarding a card drawing one you can draw a trigger, or level 3 which you don't want to do if Goku is active. I can understand stand triggers of you want the 1 in 12 games where it will make a difference with Dragonic Overlord in play with his ability active. The first thing I was told when I started playing is get rid of Gojo, the bad grade 3, add more Crit triggers in that order. I think more about the stand triggers and they're OK you can activate Dragonic Overlords ability hit a Stand trigger and its good, just too much variance. Try Gatling Claw Dragon were here to discuss and test don't just dismiss ideas, without testing. Draw triggers are great and his ability is pretty good.

@Eien As a moderator you should be less condescending and try to offer constructive criticism. You typically answer with a you're dumb my way is right attitude which is not a good way to mod or create a good gaming community.

[GKN00B_06]

Bahr is only important if you runs cards that need him. It's all about the numbers, if you don't need that extra 1k then he isn't better to have over Gojo.

It is a good level 1 vanguard, it works with berger, its a better topdeck late against a few decks like oracle, he can be some extra aggression though that is a bit more corner cased. While I would agree that he is less necessary here, I find him to be very versatile.

[kungfu_steve]

The Gojo vs Aermo argument is a moot point. Why do you think I run 4 Aermo and only 2 Gojo? Whoever told you to make those changes was giving you basic advise that in all honesty isn't awful, however from my extensive play testing I know what works for me and I understand the theory behind those choices.

The way I have always seen it is that the choice between stands and crits comes down to play style and deck build. A deck with a limited G2 line up wont benefit from stands as well as this deck would. With crits it's mostly about the average power of your VG (and to an extent your RG) that should be the deciding factor. Also you have to play quite differently depending on which you run in regards to your attacking order. In the end I am a control player and stands suit that kind of style much better than crits imo, hence why I run them. Draws really don't work in this deck, at least not for me. In the long run they negate their own advantage and don't have the same 'impact' as crits and stands.

When I first saw Gatling Dragon I had the same impression as you, but after extensive testing and a little thought I realized that his effect really isn't worth the CB. Even if his effect was tied to a G1 booster I would still opt for Kinmara.

My final point is that stands function great with or without overlord. Yes it's nice to get a powered up overlord to stand again, but that only makes them even more amazing. You seem to be clinging to the fact that stand + Overlord is the only way to plus from a stand trigger, it isnt. As i mentioned in my previous post. standing any normal G2 and adding that boost will force another 5k or 10k shield from your opponent. I'm a control player, I want to waste your resources more than I want to amass my own. Slow advantage is how the Goku deck works.....though stand triggers are anything but slow, lol!

(My choices and observations are all based on experience. I have played this deck to death, using almost every possible permutation of the available set 1 and 2 cards and this list is the result. I posted it in order to help others and on the off chance someone would suggest something novel to me. I'm not simply disregarding your suggests on a whim, I'm disregarding them because they are either badly thought out or they don't fit the Goku deck).

@GKN00B_06 Well you are definatley the first player I have ever heard refer to Bahr as 'versatile'. I do feel that I must address your comment about it being a good G1 VG. Your G1 VG should only be around for one turn, and since it's the early game you actually want to take damage over it in order to activate Conroe, etc next turn. Why would he be better that any other G1, except that he is more expendable due to being less useful than the others?! Yes he does take Berger up to 16, but that isn't a reason to run him in a deck with only 2 Berger. Berger will only really ever last 1-2 turns at most so there really is no point to add a skill-less card into the deck.

[HerO]

@Eien As a moderator you should be less condescending and try to offer constructive criticism. You typically answer with a you're dumb my way is right attitude which is not a good way to mod or create a good gaming community.

Many have tried, all have failed. You just tune him out and move on.

[Eien]

@Eien As a moderator you should be less condescending and try to offer constructive criticism. You typically answer with a you're dumb my way is right attitude which is not a good way to mod or create a good gaming community.

I'm pretty sure I know why I was asked to be a moderator more then you do. I only give attitude to newbies who act like they know more then veterans of the game. You act like I have never explained the reasons behind my opinions and if you believe that then it shows your own ignorance that you can't actually read the advice that I give.

[NinjaSonic]

I'm pretty sure I know why I was asked to be a moderator more then you do. I only give attitude to newbies who act like they know more then veterans of the game. You act like I have never explained the reasons behind my opinions and if you believe that then it shows your own ignorance that you can't actually read the advice that I give.
Almost every post on here has told somebody they're wrong followed by an arrogant quote or put down. As a moderator I suggest you work on your English because it's poor and you come off as a 14 year old thrust into a position of power. The reason I like Bahr is you don't always get the perfect cure on your Grades. Bahr simply can help if you stumble. Riding Bahr then using your dragon to grab another Bahr or Iron Tail Dragon gives you the 1500 to grab get damage or grab a guard.

[Eien]

Almost every post on here has told somebody they're wrong followed by an arrogant quote or put down. As a moderator I suggest you work on your English because it's poor and you come off as a 14 year old thrust into a position of power. The reason I like Bahr is you don't always get the perfect cure on your Grades. Bahr simply can help if you stumble. Riding Bahr then using your dragon to grab another Bahr or Iron Tail Dragon gives you the 1500 to grab get damage or grab a guard.

Unfortunately, your baseless opinion of my actions and attitude wont change anything and you're only wasting your time with possible punishing after effects if you step over the line. The problem with your whole idea that "I come off as some 14 year old thrust into a position of power" is another sign of you being new cause I was always like this BEFORE I was ASKED to be a mod. I was always the same way with people who claim to be new then act like they know what they are talking about or when people just outright give wrong information. The reasons I was asked to become a mod must be outside of your limited understanding of how life works.

The idea that you base your choice off of a bad situation that could happen goes against the NEED to have him. The whole start of this argument was the idea that Bahr is a staple, which he isn't. He isn't a card that will magically save you or guarantee a hit. Your explanation is solely based on a situational like instance and early game that is not something you aim for in a CCG. In a CCG you aim for consistency but you seem to find it more important to try and point out my attitude then to actually figure it out for yourself. Maybe if you spent time actually reading my posts instead of pointlessly criticizing them then you wouldn't seem like such a noob despite the fact that you already outright admitted to it in a previous post.

[NinjaSonic]

Your lack of grammar skills, ignorance, and arrogance astound me. As a moderator you should probably grow up and act like a mature person. Almost any other form calling people noobs, n00bs, newbies is frowned upon yet you, a moderator, also do so.

\The reasons I was asked to become a mod must be outside of your limited understanding of how life works.
This is the exact attitude I mean. You have no idea of my life, intelligence, my skill level and last out.

[Eien]

Your lack of grammar skills, ignorance, and arrogance astound me. As a moderator you should probably grow up and act like a mature person. Almost any other form calling people noobs, n00bs, newbies is frowned upon yet you, a moderator, also do so.


This is the exact attitude I mean. You have no idea of my life, intelligence, my skill level and last out.

*yawn* are you done now? or do you continually need to derail the thread to make yourself feel better?

[NinjaSonic]

Sorry in advance posting from mobile. What does everybody think of Chain-Attack Sutherland. I currently only have 2 Perfect Guards. So something like
1 Conroe
8 Critical
4 Heal
4 Draw Gatling Claw Dragon

4 Bahr
3 Aermo
3 Kimnara
2 Perfect Guard
2 Reas

4 Nehalem
3 Berserk Dragon
2 Berger
2 Sutherland

4 Goku
2 Overlord
2 Blockade

I'll fix the formatting once I can get on the PC again. I tried the Stand triggers and I was starting to like them, then I realized I cut 2 Critical and 1 Draw trigger. So 6 Crit, 4 Heal, 3 Draw, 3 Stand. Everytime I hit a Stand trigger I just wished it was a Critical. They basically do the same thing but Critical makes combat easier. I can give my Vanguard 5000 and deal an extra damage, with Stand you sometimes have to choose between Vanguard getting no damage or giving it the 5000 and Standing a 8000-1100 guy. I will say I did win one game because of a Stand trigger. Dealt damage with a Sutherland revealed double Stand triggers to swing with 31000 Sutherland.

Edit: OK had those been Criticals I still would have won and they wouldn't have been able to Perfect Guard the next attack if they had one. I just realized with Stand you almost NEED 3 attackers. One to swing, then your Vanguard to either dump critical on the remaining standing or dump stand on the rested one.

[TehNACHO]

/Make own thread.
/Stop derailing.
/Stop trying to piss off Eien, first of all because it's not working, second it doesn't help your arguments.
/Your logic behind Stand Triggers is just horrid.
/Chain Attack Sutherland is inconsistent in Goku.

[NinjaSonic]

Now I contribute and there's problems. I'm done with Eien. Kung-fu Steve said he likes to play controlish. Face it you're not always going to get your Grade 3 when you need it. Gatling Claw, Kimnara, Berserk Dragon allow you to control your opponents resources. Sutherland benefits from these cards. Conroe makes this deck a toolbox he can fetch Reas for Sutherland or Aermo for Goku. As far as I know Blazing Flare Dragon is the only card that really Soulblast. He's probably better than Blockade because he and Sutherland fit the same style. The OP wants a Goku/Aggressive Control deck that's what I tried to deliver.

[TehNACHO]

...

Wait, so Sutherland is a back up incase you don't get G3? Why would you want a card that benefits off of you stretching your own resources (Kimnara and Gatling are +0 cards) instead of cards that can successfully defend (Berger) or go through more resources (Aermo, Gojo) so you still have a chance even with a late G3?

Why did you even bring up not getting G3? I discussed no problems with it, no one else really did, and your later argument about searching Aermo for Goku just means there will be a G3.

I will give you credit for realizing Blazing Flare even though I only barely hinted it. Problem is, Blazing Flare AND Goku will just end up becoming multitasking, and you will have problems with consistency...again.

And uhh, why Bahr? Only Berger, a card you run 2 off, get much out of Bahr. You also already know Steve's opinion on it.

[NinjaSonic]

I have a list I'll post in morning. It's just a spitball idea. Conroe makes this deck an excellent toolbox and the list runs Blazing Flare, Goku, Sutherland. Its kind of really abusing Conroe turn 2 to set up whatever you need. It also doesn't run Bahr. I see the point Kung-fu Steve was making and occasionally you'll be able to hit 1500 with Grade 1s, but not frequently enough to warrant it. I may have to go to 6/6 with Draw/Crit triggers instead of 4/8. There are some other threads on here that do an excellent job explaining Draw triggers.

[kungfu_steve]

Nice to see the thread is getting back on track :-) I'm not really a Sutherland fan tbh, I have my reasons but he seems like a bit of a waste. Also I would honestly argue that in this deck Blockade is considerably batter than Blazing flare. Why do you like Sutherland.....I'm interested to understand your reasoning?

I'm pretty much set in my ways regarding my trigger line up, it works well and it's most likely staying as it is. I would like to discuss Gatling Claw Dragon though. Regardless of the fact that he's a draw I just don't like the effect. If my opponent is boosting with a G0 then it's probably a trigger which means its a low boost and a shield is out of their hand. In most cases triggers will end up being replaced by G1s and are only used as boosters in desperation, so I would prefer to let them -1 themselves by replacing their own G0 booster than waste a CB on it. What are peoples thoughts on Gatling? I know he hits Barcgal and Conroe but that's only if they stay on the field for an unusually long period of time or you are lucky with your turn order.

[NinjaSonic]

Well you like control and I figured and remove rear guards strategy kind of fits that. Testing occasionally everybody gets stuck at Grade 2 and I've noticed if I've been drawing Sutherland I've been doing quite well those games. He has 1000 less than your standard Grade 2, but if you stumble you can use your guys to retire theirs and put him above Grade 3 power. A 2100 Sutherland means you've removed a rear guard so they'll need to play another one next turn or just have 1 less rear guard. Honestly I thought he was terrible at first, but you can search Reas and in my list there are 4 Gatling Claw, 3 Kimnara, 3 Berserk Dragon. When I get on the PC I'll post a full list. It's sort of a Goku, Blazing Flare control. When i have the time I'll post why Critical triggers are better than Stand triggers 90% of the time in terms of damage.

[kungfu_steve]

Trigger debates are over, for me anyway. I know what works and I understand how each functions for a given deck, so there isn't any need to post up your crits vs stand argument (unless someone else really wants to see it?). Also stands aren't about pure damage, they are actually more of a cross between a crit and a draw. In some situations they will get you the extra point of damage and in others they will force your opponent to drop more shields (i.e. free card advantage). They require a little more strategy in order to use correctly but provide you with more options (and no that was me stating some facts, not debating triggers, lol).

You seem to be missing the point about G3s. They aren't good because they have higher attacks than G2s (which most at the moment don't) it's because they have twin drive. I don't see Sutherland ever filling the G3 void, and that's only if you draw him before your ride up to G2. If you are re-riding into Sutherland then I'm seriously worried.....please tell me you don't re-ride into it if you don't get a G3?!

This is my take on Sutherland: He is an 8k.....so that's already a bad start. It means that your opponent can attack him with their unboosted 8k G1s and force a shield! Plus, to make any real impact with him you have to really boost him with an 8k of your own......which as has already been discussed isn't worth running in this deck. Next is his effect.....its something that's heavily reliant on you having not only the correct card in hand (kinmara, Gatling or Berserk) but also having the CB to activate them. Not to mention that fact that you need to be retiring their key cards (Aermos, etc) not just any old card just to get a 3k boost. The way I see it is that his effect forces you to make sub-par choices with your retiring effects just to boost up a card that will die next turn due to it's low base power. Yes you may go up to 21k with an 8k booster but its inconstant and any advantage you can make from it will be negated by the fact that your opponent will easily kill Sutherland next turn due to his low attack. My point about Gatling also applies here; since he will often have no target to hit, meaning that you may have him in hand and the CB but have nothing to retire in order to get the Sutherland boost. This is all just my opinion/experience of the card anyway.

[GKN00B_06]

The Gojo vs Aermo argument is a moot point. Why do you think I run 4 Aermo and only 2 Gojo? Whoever told you to make those changes was giving you basic advise that in all honesty isn't awful, however from my extensive play testing I know what works for me and I understand the theory behind those choices.

The way I have always seen it is that the choice between stands and crits comes down to play style and deck build. A deck with a limited G2 line up wont benefit from stands as well as this deck would. With crits it's mostly about the average power of your VG (and to an extent your RG) that should be the deciding factor. Also you have to play quite differently depending on which you run in regards to your attacking order. In the end I am a control player and stands suit that kind of style much better than crits imo, hence why I run them. Draws really don't work in this deck, at least not for me. In the long run they negate their own advantage and don't have the same 'impact' as crits and stands.

When I first saw Gatling Dragon I had the same impression as you, but after extensive testing and a little thought I realized that his effect really isn't worth the CB. Even if his effect was tied to a G1 booster I would still opt for Kinmara.

My final point is that stands function great with or without overlord. Yes it's nice to get a powered up overlord to stand again, but that only makes them even more amazing. You seem to be clinging to the fact that stand + Overlord is the only way to plus from a stand trigger, it isnt. As i mentioned in my previous post. standing any normal G2 and adding that boost will force another 5k or 10k shield from your opponent. I'm a control player, I want to waste your resources more than I want to amass my own. Slow advantage is how the Goku deck works.....though stand triggers are anything but slow, lol!

(My choices and observations are all based on experience. I have played this deck to death, using almost every possible permutation of the available set 1 and 2 cards and this list is the result. I posted it in order to help others and on the off chance someone would suggest something novel to me. I'm not simply disregarding your suggests on a whim, I'm disregarding them because they are either badly thought out or they don't fit the Goku deck).

@GKN00B_06 Well you are definatley the first player I have ever heard refer to Bahr as 'versatile'. I do feel that I must address your comment about it being a good G1 VG. Your G1 VG should only be around for one turn, and since it's the early game you actually want to take damage over it in order to activate Conroe, etc next turn. Why would he be better that any other G1, except that he is more expendable due to being less useful than the others?! Yes he does take Berger up to 16, but that isn't a reason to run him in a deck with only 2 Berger. Berger will only really ever last 1-2 turns at most so there really is no point to add a skill-less card into the deck.

well Nahalem is a skilless card and it is included. Just thought I would point that out yes i know grade 2 yeah yeah but still the way you put it is a bit of a contradiction no? well still you will still likely the one damage and if you don't that is still a good thing too because you don't always have to use conroe right away that gives you more time to put a grade 2 and be up some damage on them, also not only does he work with berger he also works with nahalem because if you really have a problem card like silent tom or other 8K grade 2''s you reach 18K and they have to guard with more than just 10K to me that says versatile if he is good for a topdeck push, good as a vanguard good with multiple units, etc. That is essentially the definition of versatile to be good in multiple places.

I also run 2 gatling because it does work on attk or defense, i don't like to many because at the end of the day it is a 5K defender and is counter intuitive to Goku Strategy but I have a lot of RP and Kagero in my meta so i find it good, it is also fine for those times when you only need a 5K blocker it is fine to pitch it to Barri as well. I like it because it is a random miser card but the draw isn't irrelevant either. The main point isn't really to hit barcgal or conroe though it is a nice upside for me it is more of a defensive card because my Kagero is very controlling and the extra likely defense when being attacked is good for me, because having a stand when i am being attacked is so bad so that is my take on it. I could easily drop my 2 draws for a stand or something but i can't complain about how my deck has been fairing in locals.

[kungfu_steve]

Getting really sick of the Bahr debate now. Versatility is related to the cards efficacy in a variety of different situations.....Bahr does one thing, he boosts. Regardless of what he boosts, he provides no additional functions and in addition is a poor card when viewed in isolation. Its not about whether or not the card has a skill, its about putting its skill and its power in context. Yes Nahalem has no skill but he can attack all G2s and most current G3s without needing a boost. Also when combined with a 6k boost (of which I have many) he hits the 16k magic value and of course as you mentioned yourself, he is a G2 and so can defend from the field.

I agree that Bahr works with your 8ks and against your opponents 8ks but I run 2 8ks and most of the decks Ive played have followed suit. Most players wont waste a single 10k shield on an 8k RG, if you attack with 18k it will have the same result as a 16k attack, they wont guard. Moreover, few players run more than 2 8k G2s, because they are a pain to defend. The only common exception is OTT, but in all honesty I have never had any trouble getting around Tom. Most solid OTT players in my experience use Tom as a one turn strike card. They hit with him for damage and then let him die, since he isn't worth wasting the 10k shield on. Plus because of the way the deck is built I can always pop Tom with a Berserk or simply eat away at their RG essentially making Tom useless. I'm not going to run Bahr simply to help get over a card that has posed me no trouble in the past.

If you want to run draws then run them, I simply don't like how they function in this deck. I'm playing agro/control so they really don't fit imo.

Additional Comment:

Id also like to point out 2 additional elements before people comment, etc.

The first is that I am not suggesting that Bahr is bad in every deck! I'm saying that he is bad in this one. He may work great in your vortex/blazing flare build, but that makes no difference here.

Secondly, you need to view my choices and this deck in the context of the current English meta. In my previous post I mentioned that most players limit the number of 8k G2s they run. One of the reasons for this is that most people also run 3-4 8k G1 boosters (which can be used to attack those G2s without a boost) and 3-4 10k G2s (which when combined with the 8k boosters make guarding an 8k G2 very tough). Ive gone a step further than this. Because everyone else runs those cards and so limits the number of 8k G2s that they use, I don't need to clog up my deck with them. Why add in cards to combat a select group of units that no one plays because everyone else plays those same cards (if you understood that sentence you deserve a prize).

[kungfu_steve]

Furthermore, note that I am reporting several of your posts. Maybe if you learned how to be polite, instead of insulting everyone and calling yourself a god, people wouldn't hate you so much. As it stands, though, a lesser man would probably murder you simply out of annoyance, and I'd only laugh. I'd love to have one less arrogant, idiotic little brat in the world.

There is no need to make childish comments about you laughing at people being murdered.......seriously idiotic.

Its fairly easy to tell by my posts that I'm interested in winning when I play the game. I understand that the lore is important but I (like many others) prefer to win rather than lose. If you want to build decks based on the game lore and not the mechanics behind the game then I think you are in the wrong thread.

Vortex dragon was around when you posted and he is better the Crested.

My last point is that regardless of what the game designers and you think, 2x Brakki in the deck is an effective tech choice. It works and I can't see how it wouldn't. If you aren't interested in mixing/teching other clans then fine but there really is no logical reason not to at least give it a try.